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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:03 PM
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Gas Prices too High? Try Europe!
Gas prices too high? Try Europe.

$7 a gallon? That's what drivers in Amsterdam pay. But Europeans have long adapted to high prices.

By Peter Ford | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

PARIS – When Guy Colombier pulls his economy car up to a Paris pump, he allows himself just 15 Euros ($18) worth of gas - barely enough for three gallons. Since prices started rising rapidly earlier this year, says Mr. Colombier, a printing press worker, "I drive a lot more slowly ... and I'm looking for a place to live closer to where I work."

Colombier's pain is shared by drivers all over Europe, where fuel prices are the highest in the world: a gallon of gas in Amsterdam now costs $7.13, compared with just $2.61 in America. The contrast in prices and environmental policies - and the dramatically different behaviors they inspire - signals a widening transatlantic energy gap. And it raises the question: Does Europe offer America a glimpse of its future?

Indeed, while Europeans have learned to cope with expensive fuel (mostly due to taxes), there's scant evidence yet that US drivers are adopting their conservation tactics.

"Societies adjust over decades to higher fuel prices," says Jos Dings, head of Transport and Energy, a coalition of European environmental NGOs. "They find many mechanisms."

Chief among them, say experts, is the habit of driving smaller and more fuel-efficient cars. While the average light duty vehicle on US highways gets 21.6 miles per gallon (m.p.g.), according to a study by the Paris based International Energy Agency (IEA), in Paris, its European counterpart manages 32.1 m.p.g.

"European consumers are very sensitive to fuel economy and sophisticated about engine options," says Lew Fulton, a transport analyst with the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP). "European car magazines are full of comparisons of fuel costs over the life of a vehicle."

Europe's cars: 40 percent are diesel

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0826/p01s03-woeu.html
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. But in most European cities...
a car is an unnecessary headache. They're all blessed with amazing mass transit systems, and are much more centralized than North American cities.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why can't we make our mass transit systems amazing?
Seems to work very well in Washington, D.C. When I was there over the summer I didn't even find it necessary to rent a car to visit all the major attractions.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Visiting attractions is
a little different from getting from your home to your place of work. When you're visiting almost any city, it's usually no problem to get from your hotel to attractions. Commuting to work is not so easy.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Exactly...
In European cities, even the 'burbs (such as they are in Europe) are easily accessible by mass transit. There's no point in Paris that's more than 4 blocks from a Metro station. Frankfurt, Berlin, Madrid, Amsterdam, Barcelona, London etc etc - all drenched in multiple-layered transit systems - subways, trams, buses, electric buses, suburban trains - It makes me jealous.
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GrumpyGreg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I find the mass transit in the Boston area just fine.
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 09:36 PM by GrumpyGreg
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It is quite good
Too bad the USA is such a huge place - the infrastructure needed for this sort of convenience nation-wide will take years to build. I suppose we could start sometime - anytime :D
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. If only we had started years ago
we would already have all the infrastructure in place.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. But once you're out of the Hub, it's not that great.
We've ignored it for so long, and now we'll pay the piper.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. And in Portland, Oregon, where I lived 10 years without a car
Minneapolis/St. Paul is a classic example of a more typical American metro area, where the bus system is fine if you work in either downtown, not so fine if you're trying to go somewhere else.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. I find little comfort in this.
Our mass transit sucks, we are in love with gas-guzzlers, and we don't like to be told to change our habits.

Consequently, we're in for a bit of a shock at the pumps.

I'm grateful I don't have to drive to work anymore. At least I can try to plan my driving to minimize unnecessary trips.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. We have been conditioned to be gas guzzlers and shun mass transit
Also prices at the pump is bad enough, but that is not all high fuel prices affects. Not having to drive to work won't save you from high fuel prices. Think what it will do to the cost of food, alone. We all have to eat, if we spend nothing beyond that.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. True enough, but thankfully I don't have the 120 mile round trip commute
I once did. But everything else will go up, and that's for sure. Mass transit is woefully inadequate in my area.

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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. The fuel taxes help to pay for health care, education & public transit
among other things. Plus, the Europeans drive fun, safe and energy efficient cars. You do not see huge SUVs or full-size pickup trucks (or any pick up trucks for that matter) in Europe.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Exactly, Apples and oranges.
If we had universal health care and a decent public transportation system, you may be able to compare the two.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thank you for saving me the time for pointing this out. You are right
on target!
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. Europe society, at least the parts of it I've seen,
is structured in such a way that automobiles are generally not necessary for daily life. The communities tend to be very pedestrian and bicycle friendly, and there is very effective public transportation.

Unfortunately, American communities tend to be designed in such a way that it's virtually impossible to do anything without a car. It's really a case of comparing apples and oranges.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Aren't gas prices in Europe high because of taxes which pay for
societal needs such as health care and mass transit, etc.? If they backed off of their gas taxes, and lowered their cost of fuel, they would still have communities that are pedestrian and bicycle friendly. That alone makes them way ahead of this Country.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. If I had the choice
I would definitely take living in a country that had high gas prices, but where cars were more of a luxury than a necessity, and where there was an effective social safety net.

The Europeans seem much more rational than the Americans. Maybe they're just used to living with the notion that resources are finite. :shrug:
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You and me both! They seem to have a handle on finite resources
and act accordingly. They are far more rational with regard to social safety nets than we are. If I had the option of living there, I would.
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