Christian Wire Service: Howard Dean trying to MUZZLE CHURCHES

[Bluebear]

o: National Desk

Contact: Brian Burch, Fidelis, 734-358-3433, [e-mail]

WASHINGTON, April 21 /Christian Wire Service/ -- Fidelis, a national Catholic based advocacy group, called on Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, to explain himself after telling the Christian Science Monitor Wednesday that "The religious community has to decide whether they want to be tax exempt or involved in politics."

Fidelis President Joseph Cella responded: "Howard Dean's statement makes it clear that he wants to muzzle America's churches and religious groups from professing what they believe on important issues facing our society. When it comes to debates over public policy and issues, Dean should be welcoming the voice of America's churches, not attempting to silence them. Instead Dean has shown utter disregard for people of faith by threatening the historical and treasured role of religious groups and churches in American public life."

"Under Howard Dean's rules, pastors, priests, and rabbis wouldn't have been able to mobilize people of faith to join the civil rights marches in Selma and Montgomery," said Cella.

Dean's statement is the latest in a series of comments directed toward conservative Christians. Just last year, Dean told the San Francisco Chronicle, "they are not very friendly....they all behave the same, and they all look the same."

Cella continued: "Dean's blatant hostility toward any church or religious group calls into serious question his supposed outreach to values voters following the 2004 elections. In essence, Dean is saying that if religious groups want to continue to speak out, then the hand of government is going to exact a penalty. Comments such as these continue to place Howard Dean and the Democratic Party in jeopardy of further alienating religious voters."

Fidelis is a Catholic-based advocacy organization working with people of faith across the country to defend and promote the sanctity of life, traditional marriage, and the right to religious liberty by electing pro-life, pro-family and pro-religious liberty candidates, supporting the confirmation of judges, and promoting and defending laws consistent with the Founding principles of the United States.

http://www.earnedmedia.org/fidelis0421.htm

[WildEyedLiberal]

1. Oh, shut the fuck up

(Not directed at you, Bluebear - haha)

You can't have your cake and eat it too, you fucking hypocrites. EITHER advocate for a political party and accept the fact that you are a fucking 527 and will be regulated as such and lose your fucking tax exempt status, OR shut the FUCK UP about fucking politics. Why are they tax exempt anyway? For fuck's sake, most of their charity consists of making those little pocket bibles to shove at people on street corners (not true of all churches, I understand). If you are a church that actually does real charity work like feeding people, you should have to APPLY for a fucking tax exempt license. Is every religion tax exempt? Even Scientology? Can I start a cult, extort thousands of dollars from my acolytes, cheat the government out of taxes because I am a "religion," and take all the fucking morons' money and move to Aruba?

GOD this issue pisses me off.

Edit: WOW, nine f-bombs, can you tell this PISSES ME OFF?

[SammyWinstonJack]

3. !

:applause:

[Broken_Hero]

14. Good rant, and keep it coming...:)

I couldn't have ranted any better...but if it was my rant, it would have more Fbombs, you gotta work on that aggressive language a bit more...:)

[PublicWrath]

22. I wonder what happened to CASH? Frank Zappa's idea.....

Church of American Secular Humanism

[PassingFair]

2. Howard Dean will ALWAYS have my support.

He takes on lying liars AND sacred totems.

We've heard from "fidelis".

Now will we hear from the decent spokespersons equally.

Barry Lynn?

The Methodist Church elders that tried talk * out of the war,
only to be turned away at the door?

The Catholic Church's Bishop Gumbleton, courageously
protesting the war?

Give and give generously to the People United for the Separation of Church and State

or People for the American Way.

"fidelis" can SHOVE IT.

[beam me up scottie]

4. I always liked that man...

Reminds me of this cartoon...

[WildEyedLiberal]

7. Oh, that's good

Might have to steal that one.

[beam me up scottie]

10. Please do!

It gets used a lot, as you can imagine. :evilgrin:

[Maat]

5. I saw this.

When Cello states that "under Howard Dean's rules, pastors, priests, and rabbis wouldn't have been able to mobilize people of faith to join the civil rights marches in Selma and Montgomery," he is making a FALSE STATEMENT, to fire up his base (and he likely knows that he is distorting things).

Pastors whose churches carry a "501-c-3" status MAY talk about ISSUES, such as civil rights marches, as much as they desire. They merely are not permitted to ELECTIONEER if they wish to keep that tax-exempt status. Thus, they are not allowed to advocate a certain candidate or campaign FROM THE PULPIT.

This is a favorite technique of the Religious Hardright - to scare people about whether or not their spiritual leaders can discuss issues they consider to be extremely pertinent, and, when they use it, they stink!

[Dogmudgeon]

8. "False Statement" = False Witness

Isn't there a Commandment about that kind of thing?

--p!

[Maat]

16. Yes (n/t).

[beam me up scottie]

11. Lucky for us,

Howard Dean doesn't scare easy.

Hell, he doesn't scare at all.

And I should know, he was my governor for years.

[Maat]

17. You're not lying!

Dude has SPINE!!

[beam me up scottie]

24. You should have seen how he

handled the Civil Union issue.

Logical.

Fearless.

Righteous.


In my fantasies, he's the President.

[Maat]

27. I wish.

But the Evil Cabal would never allow it.

Gov. Dean should watch taking small planes.

Eh ... Dr. Dean will soldier on.

Actually, I get to hear him talk this July (at DemocracyFest).

[madfloridian]

12. Exactly...civil rights are human rights. They are not politics.

They just spin and mislead.

[Maat]

18. Exactly! (n/t)

[Cha]

6. Dean's right...pay taxes or shut

the fuck up.

[Erika]

9. I like our local tactic best

You want donations from us? W has already taken our taxes to do that.

Stand on your own. These groups chose to become political. So let them live by their donations from those who agree with their politics. Let each city vote on whether a church should be allowed tax free exemptions.

[Joey Liberal]

13. I agree with Howard Dean

I'm fed up with the "Christians". They are the American Taliban.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

15. Howard Dean wants to ban The Bible!

Hmm, didn't we hear that leading up to November 2004? And the "faithful," like my dumbass neighbor, lap it up. (Sorry, I moved to Raleigh (well, lily white North Raleigh) not too long ago and between the W stickers, Jesus fish, and scripture on fast-food cups, I'm losin' it! Thank GAWD for downtown, Durham, Chapel Hill, and Carrboro.)

If you have the stomach for it:

http://www.fidelis.org/

"Does politics have a place in the pulpit? Should places of worship be homes for engaged and unsettling activism — or tranquil havens, sealed off from the rough-and-tumble of today's bitter partisan debates?"

I vote for tranquil havens! These RW MFers thrive on "bitter, partisan debates"; meanwhile, the masses get screwed.

[madfloridian]

20. I read that. Talk about spinning.

They seem to think the government has no right to tell them what to think, but that is not even the issue at all. It is like they really believe they can do as they wish and not be managed and not pay taxes.

"It is the regulation of the churches' expression, and not their expression itself, that should raise constitutional red flags. Religious institutions are not above the law, but a government that respects the separation of church and state should be extremely wary of telling churches and religious believers whether they are being appropriately "religious" or excessively "political" or partisan. Churches and congregants, not bureaucrats and courts, must define the perimeter of religion's challenges. It should not be for the state to label as electioneering, endorsement, or lobbying what a religious community considers evangelism, worship or witness."

Well, it should if you don't pay taxes and you are doing political things.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

25. Did you see who is featured in their "Hall of Infamy"?

http://www.fidelis.org/hall_infamy.php

Wonder who is funding this group. Actually, four groups: Fidelis, Fidelis America, Fidelis Center for Law and Policy, and the Fidelis Media Fund. Surely they're not being kept afloat by $25 donations from Concerned Catholics.

Grrrr,
"MadNorthCarolinian"!

[Kagemusha]

31. If churches had no exemption this wouldn't be a problem. Ever.

It's only because the government has insisted on giving churches special treatment "because they're non-political" that we are in this position at all.

[Charlie Brown]

19. you want to play, you got to pay n/t

[napi21]

21. Howard will respond, and quickly, I'm sure!

Someone from the IRS needs to explaaine to these folks what is required to maintain their tax exempt status! Howard didn't make it up! It's IRS laws, and the same ones have been in place for a lot of years!

I can't wait to hear Howard's response to this one! I think it's the first time since he's become Chairman that a GROUP has gone after HIM directly! He won't be silent!!!!

[lvx35]

23. Churches advocating peace are already paying the price

for involvment in politics, many having their tax exempt status called into question by the IRS for sermons against the Iraq war. Yet Pat Robertson sits there calling for assassinations with immunity. Its definatly time for some standards in that realm.

[REP]

26. If Dean's Pissing Them Off, Then He's Telling The Truth Again

Fidelis, it seems, is an organization engaged exclusively in political behavior. What's Latin for "lying sack of shit"?

[DanCa]

28. Conservative Dogma isn't Christianity.

That's the little flaw in the slaw here. Liberal Christians the true christians rock. What we are trying to do is save this country from the end timers who want to take the rest of us out with them.

[cynatnite]

29. Howard Dean listens to KISS records....

backwards.

:rofl:

[NMMNG]

30. Wake up nitwits

Talking about issues is perfectly acceptable.

Telling people how to vote and otherwise influencing politics is not...if you want to keep your tax-exempt status.

The problem is that today's fundie churches don't seem to know the difference, or at least are hoping that we don't.

[dusty64]

32. Good for Dean!

:kick:

[annabanana]

33. Dean is hostile

to THEOCRATS, not Christians... Those people are sick.