This is just strange

[Mythsaje]

She said, he said and then mom said

SEAN ROBINSON; The News Tribune
Published: April 22nd, 2006 01:00 AM

A man charged with raping a 14-year-old girl can’t expect sympathy, but Stanley Scott Sadler is getting it from an unlikely source: the teen’s mother.
His trial starts May 1 in Pierce County Superior Court. The charges: kidnapping, child rape, sexual exploitation of a minor, possession of child pornography, dealing in child pornography – 38 felony counts in all.

Sadler’s plea: not guilty. His defense: Blame the girl. Court records show she is a serial juvenile offender, known to advertise herself on Internet sex sites and portray herself as an adult. Sadler claims he was duped.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/5682350p-5094168c.html

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Looks like our National Pedo Frenzy has begun to go haywire

Sounds like he has a good case, except that he's already been tried and found guilty in the Courts of Television, Public Outrage, and Careerist Junior Prosecutors.

The fact that a "victim" lied about her age (and how sexist is that?) is not a defense shows how Nancy-Grace-esque this has gotten.

I can only wonder when the prison rape jokes will start.

--p!

[Heidi]

2. I've heard of at least two other similar cases,

in different states, in the past six months.

[izzie]

3. Is an odd story.

I find it hard to say a man raped a girl when some look so old, and tell these men they are say 23. And we know some 15 year olds look much older then they are. Seems to be one hell of a spot to put a man in and he could end up with his whole life on a list some place. This part of these laws have been done bad for justice or so I think. I also think that some really bad things have gone down with young children. Look at that big case in Mass years ago where the children made up all sort of things and those people went to jail. Mother's telling their kids what to say and I have seen some odd mother's who think some pretty add stuff and use it in divorce. It is not that I think men are saints but these laws do very bad things to some men. It maybe time to re-look at some of these laws.

[Heidi]

5. I have an attorney friend who believes

that convicted sex offenders in his state soon will be required to have a microchip implanted in order to accommodate lifelong GPS monitoring. For true sex offenders, I tend to think treatment would be a better, more long-lasting and just option.

Here's an interesting article: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-24-sex-crimes-cover_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

[trumad]

6. First off--the dude is 48

I'm 48 and there aint no way that I'm gonna have sex with a girl that I think is 18. It's sick in my opinion.

Plus--this.

On Sept. 12, 2004, Sadler, 48, a postal worker and ex-Marine, left his Fircrest house in handcuffs. Police found the 14-year-old girl lying in his upstairs bedroom, groaning as if drugged, wearing nothing but a plaid skirt. The house was full of bondage gear.

Oh yeah--- I can feel for the guy...:eyes:

[Shipwack]

10. So... being kinky is now a crime?

Nothing wrong with having bondage gear in the house... Especially since it was not being used on the girl in question.

As for "...groaning as if drugged", the key words here are "as if". If drugs were used, it would have been reported as being found in her system. If she can act as if she were 19, she can act as if she were drugged.

[Mythsaje]

12. Maybe "sick" but historically normal...

as such things go.

Things like this make me glad I'm not particularly attracted to younger women anyway.

[izzie]

36. I was talking in general. But

men who marry girls is hardly new or may not even be nice but that is done over and over. I am not into sex crimes. I just think the laws should be up for a re-do as some are really unfair to all. I am old enough to have seen so many women use this stuff in divorce that I wonder about the women but then I also know that those laws were really unfair to women most of history. I am sure we are in the middle of trying to make it fair to all the parties in a divorce. Once only a man would have his children. I also know you can talk children into saying anything or many of them. And as I come from another age I do not understand all these young women putting them self in some of the places they do. Yes they always can say no and these things should not happen to them but pray tell what are they doing to put them self in such a spot? Where is their brain? As a man you would not do some of the silly things these girls do for your own good.

[Minnesota Libra]

4. The teen's mother is supporting this guy?? I've seen it all now!! nt

[Heidi]

7. Here's a similar case in another state.

I posted this article in GD about a month ago:

Man Charged With Sexual Assault Has Support Of Victim's Mother
Woman Says Her Daughter Lies About Her Age

UPDATED: 9:33 am CST March 29, 2006

OMAHA, Neb. -- A 25-year-old man charged with first-degree sexual assault on a 14-year-old girl appeared in court Tuesday with an unexpected advocate: the alleged victim's mother.

Marvin Villareal waived his right to a preliminary hearing and was bound over to District Court. He faces a felony charge for having sex with the teenage girl, but the girl's mother said her daughter was in the wrong. She lied about her age, adding that she told Villareal she was 19. Her mother said it isn't the first time.

"I feel Marvin's in this situation because my daughter manipulated him. She lied to him about her age," said Estela Torres, the victim's mother. "In my heart I think if I wasn't here, I wouldn't be doing the right thing. I love her. She's my daughter. I stand behind her. But I also have to support this young man because what's happened to him is not fair."

Torres said her daughter looks mature for her age, wears makeup, fixes her hair and is well developed. The lie about her age isn't new, Torres said, and her daughter is just now learning there are consequences for that.

http://www.ketv.com/news/8320000/detail.html?subid=22100461&qs=1;bp=t

[salin]

9. I thought about that story as well... but this one is

even more disturbing. The article paints a very complicated story and suggests that this girl is seriously troubled. This is far more than dressing up/making up and pretending to be a little older for the attention of older boys (which sounded more like the first story) - this one has much heavier sexual undertones and does indeed make her sound like a predator (which I don't think was the case of the first story) which leaves me wondering... what happened to this girl earlier in her life?

[salin]

8. What an incredibly complicated case.

Only one thing, from reading the article, is clear. There is something very wrong with this girl - her behavior is beyond the 'early promiscuity' that often is an indication of earlier sexual molestation or assualt... I hope that she is found, not only to help figure out this case - but in order to get her some help, and learn the roots of her behavior and if it turns out that she was a victim earlier in life (which is what comes to mind when reading the story) - to pursue charges. The speculation towards the end of the article that the mother may have helped the girl run away from the foster care - in order to keep the girl from talking fits with my read on the story.

[Gormy Cuss]

13. I read the same possibilities for her, and think he knew she was underage

There are red flags all through that report. She is a pretty messed up teen.

As for the guy's defense, this part of the story blows holes in his assertion that he couldn't have known:

A third person, a woman, participated in the sexual activity at Sadler’s home. Evidence includes photos of the woman engaged in sex with the teen. The prosecutors have decided not to charge the woman, but her name appears on the witness list.

Records show the woman signed a contract with Sadler, giving him permission to treat her in a degrading manner. Sadler admitted the girl did not sign a similar contract.

That and relying on a web cam shot of a birth certificate, rather than asking her to bring it along, suggests that he really didn't care how young she was. He took the risk and now he's paying for it.

[salin]

16. very good point

per risk and paying for it. Odd that thing about the contract, isn't it.

[uncle ray]

18. so you've examined every birth certificate of every partner you've had?

still have copies on file?

i didn't think so. this guy exercised a level of dilligence greater than 95% of people, most who wouldn't bother to even verify the last name of the person they're hooking up with.

[Gormy Cuss]

19. Did you read the article?

This isn't your average hook up. This isn't some poor guy who picked up an underage girl in a bar when he was drunk and where he could make the assumption that she was an adult since only adults should be drinking in bars.

The article states that getting signed contracts and asking for proof of age are fairly standard in the bondage community (presumably to prevent things like kidnapping and abuse charges when someone has second thoughts.) Note that he did require a contract from the adult woman but not from the teen. So why would that be? A webcam shot of her birth certificate was good enough for the girl, so why the contract for the woman? He didn't exercise diligence, he exercised wishful thinking.

[Mythsaje]

20. I think that the argument could be made

that he suspected things weren't exactly kosher.

Arguing it and proving it, however, are two different things. It may be possible that such contracts are normal OUTSIDE of a house-sharing arrangement between partners. I don't know, but it might be implied if you're boyfriend and girlfriend. If it occurs to me I'll have to ask a few people I know who are into that sort of thing.

[Gormy Cuss]

23. It would be very different if he even claimed to have seen her ID

or if neither the adult woman or the teen had been asked to sign a contract or prove age. Then he'd look less culpable. The fact that his first wife was 13 (he 26) when they hooked up suggests that he knows his tastes run to very young-looking women. At age 48 I doubt that he is unaware of the dangers of engaging in sex with someone who IS that young, as opposed to just looking like it. That's why I said it was probably wishful thinking on his part.

[Mythsaje]

27. I agree...

What a 48 y.o. thinks he'd have in common with an 18 y.o. is beyond me anyway... I suppose if you're not really interested in talking... :shrug:

[Mojorabbit]

22. I always cringe

when someone links early sexual activity with abuse. While it may be so in some cases it is not always.
I was sexually active at 14 yrs old in the seventies. Never was abused. Just enjoyed sex for fun and still do.

[Mythsaje]

28. My wife would probably say the same...

As would I.

[salin]

35. this story seems to indicate the 14 year old

is way more than just sexually active at 14. Soliciting in bondage websites - at 14. I have worked with youth for 20 years - there is being active and acting out sexually (often in more extremes at younger ages), the latter, I have found through experience, often is tied to something in the past. Perhaps it is not a rule, and I am sorry to make you cringe, and I almost never say things like this - but after reading the whole article, the story really sends up red flags to me, per the girl.

[Missy M]

11. After reading the whole article the 14 year old girl is certainly...

disturbed and needs help but I consider the man to be the sexual predator. There is something seriously wrong with her mother too.

[dogday]

14. I think it is time to start asking for I.D.

before having sex.. That goes both ways..

[0007]

15. This is a must read article. It is unbelievable beyond belief

I've been around the block more than twice and have never never heard of a case like this one.

A third person, a woman, participated in the sexual activity at Sadler’s home. Evidence includes photos of the woman engaged in sex with the teen. The prosecutors have decided not to charge the woman, but her name appears on the witness list.

Read it all. It is a bit long.

[Mythsaje]

17. That was pretty much my reaction...

I very rarely post news articles, but this struck me as very weird.

[omega minimo]

21. Why this obsession with rape?

[Mythsaje]

26. I live in Tacoma

and this was front page news here today. It came in my e-mail box. I thought it was odd enough to pass along.

My other thread to which you refer was in response to all the battles going on and an attempt to defuse some of the emotions behind them. It was less about rape than suggesting people step outside themselves and look at things from another POV.

What are you trying to imply?

[Fleshdancer]

25. well that doesn't make any sense

if they're going to charge the man, then this woman should also be charged.

[Blue_Tires]

24. strange indeed

but when we as a society start treating young teens and preteens as sex objects, i would not be surprised to see more cases like this in the future

[Mythsaje]

29. When did we ever STOP treating them as sex objects?

Historically speaking the rich and powerful world-wide always chose young brides. Still happens in less "enlightened" cultures.

[Blue_Tires]

32. i know what you mean,

i was referring more to pop culture, music, movies, etc...

[Mythsaje]

33. I don't know...

Guess I don't pay much attention to that, myself. I hadn't noticed that offering pre-teens and young teens up as sex objects. Older teens, sure...but that's pop culture in a nutshell.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. The Guy Has His Own Problems, But Didn't Deserve Any Of This.

The charges should've been dropped a long time ago. Though I can say he should've used better judgment, that I don't agree with his preferences, and that for his age I find his acts a bit sick, those things are none of my business. Fact is, if he had no idea of her true age and had no other reason to question it, there is no rape statutory or otherwise. These charges should be dropped asap.

[ElboRuum]

31. Either I'm going insane...

Or I've been right all along about the subjectivity of moral issues:

1) Teenage sexual predator with a history of lying about her age among just about everything else
2) Older male with fetish for young females
3) Mother siding with the alleged rapist over her "bad seed" offspring

Seriously, can any of these three claim the moral high ground in this matter?

:banghead:

[Mythsaje]

34. Not from my perspective...

They're all screwy.

[Peter Frank]

37. Sad as this case is - let's stay focused on the systematic injustice...

...of this admin.

If PNAC/NWO get's its way -- at least 80% of the world's population will be screwed.