Just got back from the Kerry speech

[WilliamPitt]

It was a boomer. The text isn't up on a site yet, at least not one I can find. But it was good. Late? Definitely. But good.

More later.

[Minnesota Libra]

1. Keep us posted on the text of his speech. Thanks!! nt

[Dr Ron]

2. Full text at The Democratic Daily

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2723

[fedupinBushcountry]

3. You can find the text here:

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2723

[WildEyedLiberal]

4. It's up on Dem Daily

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2723

It's never too late for a speech about the importance of dissent - and what better anniversary for it?

The Adams cousins would be proud of what happened in Fanueil Hall today.

[itzamirakul]

8. I would say that he is about two years too late with such rousing

speechifying. Where was all this gusto when he was running for President?

[WildEyedLiberal]

9. One thread wasn't enough for you to come poop in?

:eyes:

[Noisy Democrat]

11. The September 19, 2004 speech

kicked ass, when he laid it on the line about how bad things were getting in Iraq and how we had to get our act together or it would all fall apart. And now that things have gone down the toilet as badly as he warned, he's speaking out again. He's criticized Bush on Iraq from the beginning -- since before the invasion.

[Dr Ron]

19. Kerry spoke out against Bush all along

As noted elsewhere where you are spreading your misinformation, it just appears you chose to ignore any information which contradicts your biases.

[sandnsea]

29. Please don't disrupt another thread

You already got one locked, isn't that enough for one day??

[sallyseven]

31. Oh my how thoughtful of you.

He doesn't need your advice he will do very well.

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. Some people are never satisfied.

[blm]

50. May I ask WHY you don't KNOW about his speeches on this in 2004?

Were YOU ignoring his campaign, too, just like the media who editted out or left unreported his many jarring attacks on Bush and his Iraq policy?

If you don't know about his many speeches than YOU are part of the problem. Because YOU weren't working to keep up with the facts and spread REAL info to fight back WITH us while the media protected the Bushboy.

[LittleClarkie]

57. Did you want him to fake it then?

He opposed the Vietnam War in 1972, NOT 1968. You could say he was late then. People opposed that war before he did.

But he got to a point then where he didn't see the point of losing good men in that fight so long ago.

He didn't make this speech in 2004, because he still saw hope and a window of opportunity in Iraq. He was being true to what he believed then, which was that if the right person was in the White House, we could have still de-fubared Iraq. Six months ago, he said we had about a six month window, I believe mostly because of the elections and the chance for Iraq to form a goverment. He's been offering plans all along that might have worked had they been heeded. He's come to the end of his rope re: this war, just as he came to the end of his rope re: the Vietnam War.

So here we are, six months later. Bush didn't do anything that needed to be done in Iraq, and now the window has indeed closed.

This is not political to him, or perhaps he would have given that totally fake, but rousing speech two years ago. He says it now, because he feels it now. Game over. Time to get out. Enter the Winter Soldier. I saw him coming a few months ago, or thought I did. I was right. I reckoned Kerry was headed in this direction, just by what he's been saying. And knowing he was giving this speech on the same day he gave his testimony 34 years ago, I figured it would be a good one.

Good for him. It is only too late if you think he only says these things to get elected and pander politically. He does not. As he said to Allard on the Senate floor, in regard to the troops no one spins his words. Period. This is not political. He says it because he feels it in his gut. Or else the words wouldn't be rousing.

You can tell when he's emotional about something. The sentences are shorter, for one thing. I do love it when he's angry. He's ever so much more engaging then.

But anyway, that's the take from someone who pays attention to him on a regular basis.

[bunkerbuster1]

22. So it's at the Dem Daily, you say?

heh.

great line here:


Dissenters are not always right, but it is always a warning sign when they are accused of unpatriotic sentiments by politicians seeking a safe harbor from debate, from accountability, or from the simple truth.

[Cleita]

5. Kerry seems to be always late because he's so cautious.

I guess that's better than flying off half-cocked like the Bushler always does though.

[WildEyedLiberal]

6. Well - yes and no

Yes, he's certainly more cautious than Bush, which is a good thing. He doesn't rush into things blindly.

But the text of the speech is definitely not cautious. It gave me goosebumps.

[Clarkie1]

15. Better cautious than foolhardy. n/t

[blm]

39. Cautious - no. He has the innate sense of an honest prosecutor.

If he was too cautious by nature, he never would have uncovered IranContra, BCCI, CIA drugrunning or the illegal wars in Central America in the Senate or submitted the first ever senate legislation protecting gays or the only public campaign financing legislation.

[Noisy Democrat]

7. The timing is just right

In 2003, Kerry warned against rushing to war. In 2004, he said that we had to change strategy or it would be a disaster. In 2005, he said we were running out of time to prevent civil war. Now that it *is* civil war, he's saying enough's enough. I think he's been exactly right all along.

[Dr Ron]

16. Kerry has been right all along

While he made a mistake, as he admits, on voting for the IWR, overall he has been right in opposing gong to war.

He spoke out many times against going to war before war, and at the onset of the war protested by calling for regime change in the United States.

We can take this back before 2003 even. Note this NY Times article (also on Truth Out):

http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/08.01E.kerry.bush.htm

By Attacking Bush, Kerry Sets Himself Apart
By James Dao

New York Times | Politics
Wednesday, 31 July, 2002

WASHINGTON, July 30 — Secretary of State Colin L. Powell was cruising through a Senate hearing on arms control, charming his Democratic adversaries and deftly parrying their questions, when Senator John Kerry, a Democrat from Massachusetts, took the microphone.

In the aggressive style he honed as a prosecutor two decades ago, Mr. Kerry unleashed a barrage of criticism against President Bush’s nuclear arms treaty with Russia, saying it “neutered” previous pacts and included a “huge contradiction.” Twice, he interrupted a clearly irritated Mr. Powell in midsentence.

For many Democrats, the war on terrorism has made that kind of frontal assault on Bush foreign policy seem risky, if not politically suicidal. But not for Mr. Kerry. A decorated Vietnam veteran and potential presidential candidate, he has lustily attacked the administration on policies like trans-Atlantic relations, Pentagon spending, Middle East negotiations and even Mr. Bush’s greatest triumph, Afghanistan.

[Clarkie1]

17. I agree with you for the most part, except for the IWR vote. n/t

[mdmc]

41. who will be the last man to die for a mistake?

when he asks that, I will give him props.

In 2003, I was in the streets trying to oppose w. AND the GOP+Dems from their patriotic rush to war. In 2004 it was obvious that this was not a war of necessity. I was not talkin "stay the course" or "change strategy"(to what? we already had fucked it up). In 2005 it was obvious that we would be in iraq forever, or until the usa citizens were willing to accept another vietnam type defeat.

Unless Kerry said that Bush lied in order to bring us to war, that the war was wrong, the intelligence was wrong, and it was a mistake to go to war, he fell short.

John Kerry is a great man. He was a good candidate in 2004 (he was a liberal). He was dead set wrong about this war.

[tatertop]

10. Will their be audio or video available?

[Noisy Democrat]

12. It'll be on CSPAN at 7 tomorrow

Not sure if it's CSPAN 1, 2 or 3.

[globalvillage]

14. Sen Kerry will be on "This Week" tomorrrow, too.

Big Kerry day tomorrow.
:-)

[LSK]

18. thank you for posting that

[Clarkie1]

13. Great speech, just finished reading it in it's entirety.

:thumbsup:

[kerrygoddess]

20. Advance text was up before it started

On the Dem Daily - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2723

[seabeyond]

21. late? does two years forward have anything to do with the late?

saying what is today and is out today, and where we are today, is not the same as two years ago.

this is what i hear so often when critizing (i know you arent a kerry basher) kerry now a days. late.

but..... is now the same as yesterday?

anyway, thanks williampitt..... glad you got to see him

[WilliamPitt]

23. It is hard

not to use the word 'late,' unfortunately. I've been working closely with PDA and the Congressional Progressive Caucus for more than a year now, and most of that work has been aimed at developing and attempting to implement some kind of Iraq exit plan. I say 'late' only because House members like Conyers, Woolsey, Lee and Murtha have already given this speech a dozen times.

That having been said, the timing for this speech - delivered by this Senator - is impeccable. I think, therefore, that there's an argument to be made: it is better to do something exactly when it will have the most affect than it is to do something when the country isn't ready to hear about it.

[seabeyond]

25. which is the conundrum of politics and why i have not seen misstep

like so many see. the conyers and all were needed to be here. but to be fair kerry has been saying stuff all along. but the conyers and the murtha and all the others voices allows this to be said now. and you are right, too early, and wouldnt be heard. our society is in a very odd odd place. personally i am seeing the handling of all this chipping away, though subtle, effective.

many want a sledgehammer.....

that is not what the dems are doing. but i think they are effective. and for kerry to finally be to the point to say,..... how do we tell the last man....

now, lol lol. i will go read the speech

[sandnsea]

28. Will, dammit

You know full well that Kerry was trying to figure out the best way to get out of Iraq way back when you met with him in 2003. At that time, it seemed stabilization and bringing in the international community was the fastest way. In 2004, he called for a plan that would allow troops to start coming home in 2005. I read Woolsey's resolution, it called for elections, reconstruction, AND security, NOT bringing troops home now. Last October, Kerry gave a 6 month window and a call to bring home 20,000 troops by the end of the year. It is just not true that Kerry hasn't been working on an exit plan, moreover, he's led the way. He's the first one to call for a date certain. You're just dead wrong on this.

I wish he'd given this exact speech in 2004 too, because he desperately needed to draw the correlations between the politics of Vietnam and the politics of Iraq, as well as close the loop on his own protest. But it's wrong to say he hasn't been fighting his heart out to get out of Iraq, just not true.

[ProSense]

37. Actually,

Murtha made his first speech about withdrawal in November 2005. Kerry presented “The Path Forward" in October 2005, stating that "The goal should be to withdraw the bulk of American combat forces by the end of next year.” (2006)


Kerry also spoke about withdrawal and no permanent bases in October 2004:

Kerry Hits Nail on Head

By Marjorie Cohn t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Monday 04 October 2004

Snip...

John Kerry cut to the heart of the matter when he said during Thursday’s debate with George W. Bush that, "a critical component of success in Iraq is being able to convince the Iraqis and the Arab world that the United States doesn’t have long-term designs on it." Kerry cited the U.S. construction of 14 military bases in Iraq that are said to have "a rather permanent concept to them."

Building these bases belies Bush’s protestations that he has "no ambitions of empire."

Snip...

Yes, as Kerry said, Bush made "a colossal error of judgment" when he invaded Iraq. "I will make a flat statement," Kerry declared during the debate. "The United States of America has no long-term designs on staying in Iraq." With that promise, John Kerry turned the policy of Team Bush on its head. Kerry was also right on when, responding to Bush’s debate mantra that Kerry sends mixed messages, the Senator said: "You talk about mixed messages. We’re telling other people, ‘You can’t have nuclear weapons,’ but we’re pursuing a new nuclear weapon that we might even contemplate using."

more...

http://www.uncle-scam.com/Breaking/oct-04/to-10-4.pdf#search=

Here is the debate text:

KERRY: The time line that I've set out -- and again, I want to correct the president, because he's misled again this evening on what I've said. I didn't say I would bring troops out in six months. I said, if we do the things that I've set out and we are successful, we could begin to draw the troops down in six months.

And I think a critical component of success in Iraq is being able to convince the Iraqis and the Arab world that the United States doesn't have long-term designs on it.

As I understand it, we're building some 14 military bases there now, and some people say they've got a rather permanent concept to them.

When you guard the oil ministry, but you don't guard the nuclear facilities, the message to a lot of people is maybe, "Wow, maybe they're interested in our oil."

Now, the problem is that they didn't think these things through properly. And these are the things you have to think through.

What I want to do is change the dynamics on the ground. And you have to do that by beginning to not back off of the Fallujahs and other places, and send the wrong message to the terrorists. You have to close the borders.

You've got to show you're serious in that regard. But you've also got to show that you are prepared to bring the rest of the world in and share the stakes.

I will make a flat statement: The United States of America has no long-term designs on staying in Iraq.

And our goal in my administration would be to get all of the troops out of there with a minimal amount you need for training and logistics as we do in some other countries in the world after a war to be able to sustain the peace.

But that's how we're going to win the peace, by rapidly training the Iraqis themselves.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/30/politics/main646640.shtml

[blm]

55. Cuz no one listened to Kerry's withdrawal plan speech last October

and as the media roundly ignored it and its details, they gave Murtha's comments a month later extraordinary attention in their effort to claim the Dems want to cut and run and surrender, defining it in a way they could not with the Kerry plan.

What I would like to know is why such an important withdrawal plan and speech is not up in its entirety on every left blog and forum site to make it less possible for corporate media to ignore it.

The blogs and forums are acting LIKE the corporate media - they will not rally around even the best plans and speeches if they have already established a bias against the Democratic presenter.

[YvonneCa]

64. Here, here ! n/t

:D

[Daphne08]

24. I just read it, and it was a wonderful speech. I'm old enough

to remember Kerry's testimony back then... in fact, I had just gotten married.

Most of the country was already against the war, and I really, really detest the way the Right has rewritten history!

[oasis]

26. I'm ready slap a "Kerry '08" bumper sticker on my car. The sooner

the better. :woohoo:

[alfredo]

38. I still have my Veteran for Kerry bumper sticker on my car.

I'm ready to rumble.

[oasis]

62. Display it with pride. It's feels great to be a Democrat. (eom)

:woohoo:

[alfredo]

66. It's feeling better all the time.

I think we expected the Republicans to self immolate. they did. They didn't have the moral fiber to lead.

[oasis]

67. The greedy bastards always overplay their hand. Always. (n/t)

[alfredo]

68. It should remind people why they were the minority for 40 years.

[Capn Sunshine]

46. please God , NO

Most of us learned from our mistakes.

[WildEyedLiberal]

51. Such as Kerry, which is why he is coming out guns blazing with this

Evidently you think Kerry can't learn anything. :eyes:

[blm]

52. And TOO many never stick their necks out often enough to MAKE mistakes

so they get heralded as brave souls every now and then.

[LittleClarkie]

53. So vote for somebody else in the primaries

Come and get us, if you can. :D

[seabeyond]

56. me too. though i have 8. and just pulled out two more to put on

in a time of universal deciet, telling the truth is a revolutionary act

no one is free, when others are oppressed

my other eight:

peace sign
diversity is our strength
we are a town against hate
if you arent outraged you arent paying attention
if you think education is expensive, try ignorance
silence is the voice of complicity
dissent in wartime can be the highest form of patriotism
when the power of ove overcomes the love of power the world will know peace


and i have the perfect place for my kerry sticker. ready to put it on. all these stickers will represent kerry's message well

the most fun i have is taking kids to school and picking them up. we stop at the light and always we have cars behind us with kids in them. i will watch the parents read, but more i will see the necks strain to rise higher of the little kids for them to read. but even greater than that, i will then see the parent and child talk to each other about what they read. i dont much care if it is a parent disagreeing or agreeing, but to see parent and child discussing my stickers are the best for me.

[oasis]

61. IMO, an early "Kerry '08" campaign will get America into a Democratic

mindset. No other Dem would have the impact of a John Kerry.

[seabeyond]

65. good thought. i agree. and, repug really dont want kerry

they ave already trashed him. wont be new stuff for people to have to figure out truth or lie. people already know it is bullshit. kerry said even if he doesnt win, he is going to hold bush accountable and he has. they cant trash kerry. they will be able to trash a new guy adn confuse the whole campaign

[Sydnie]

27. Where were you sitting?

I was on the floor, on the left side, seven rows back ... about four chairs in. The event was AWESOME!

Pictures to come soon!

[merbex]

32. I was on the right probably across from you; it was an emotional experienc

Mrs Droz- Keyes actually moved me to tears at one point

I also have pictures which I need to download and Kerry signed my program as he left Faneuil Hall

I knew immediately that I was going to have to download his speech because some parts were so eloquent

[babylonsister]

34. You were there also? Lots of DUers attended-lucky you, Sydnie! nt

[Sydnie]

35. I was there with my daughter

You know, when Captain Powers was speaking, you could hear a pin drop ... no one was reacting. I can't recall at the moment what he said, but it moved me to begin to clap ... then the crowd joined me and the place exploded! It wasn't a quiet speech from that moment on. I had to start a few standing ovations too (and some where only a few of us stood while everyone clapped) but it was a highly charged crowd by the end of Kerry's speech.

The gentleman seated next to me is a Professor of Biology at Brandeis University and at the conclusion of the speech he applauded my enthusiasm and asked that I email him copies of my pictures. I then took off after my daughter who had charged to the front and was pushed back down the aisle as Kerry made his way out of the hall. At one point, she was right next to him, reached out to touch is arm and thanked him for his words and his time. I have never been more proud of that 13 year old in my life! She was bound and determined to speak to him and she did!

I wish I had known that I wasn't going to be the only DUer there ... we could have sat together.

[babylonsister]

36. What an experience! There's lots of Kerry love to be

found on the Kerry forum:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=273

I think 3 of the regulars from MA attended, and I know TayTay was live-blogging on dKos.
Thanks for sharing with us, Sydnie, and kudos to your daughter!

[Sydnie]

60. Pictures and story in this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=273&topic_id=82869&mesg_id=82869

the pix aren't that good ... camera was on the wrong setting and I didn't realize it, but they are there and a bit more of the feel from today.

[YankeyMCC]

30. My favorite line

"The true pessimists are those who do not understand that fidelity to our principles is as critical to national security as our military power itself."

It is a good speech, well thought out, interesting references and quotes and presents a clear logical mode of thinking and provides a foundation for better policy.

Unfortunately I doubt it will sink in with much of the general public, however, there are some good quotes that might catch on and take hold if the media coverage is good. Of course hoping for good media coverage of something like this takes a good dose of optimism.

[karlrschneider]

40. Your favorite line...good choice but I wonder how many Joe Sixpacks

can even grasp what it means. I think I will print it out and show it around out here and see how many of my fellow Okies can explain what it actually means. Uh, I guess I'm a pessimist. :eyes:

"The true pessimists are those who do not understand that fidelity to our principles is as critical to national security as our military power itself."

[Dr Ron]

42. Kerry Finally Spoke Out For The First Time, Once Again

It's amazing how many times Kerry has made a great speech on topics such as opposing the war, and it is greated by the same responses. Each time there are people saying Kerry should have said this before, or he is too late. The fact is, Kerry has said most of this before. Kerry has spoken out against going to war in Iraq since well before the war started.

Today's speech marks the 25th anniversary of his Vietnam testimony. It is just one of many times Kerry has spoken out against the war.

Maybe he is late in one way. Kerry did avoid discussion of his Vietnam era protests during the 2004 campaign. This was strategy, right or wrong, and never indicated that Kerry changed in his opposition to unjust wars. The feeling was that in the post 9/11 period the voters were not willing to accept such clear dissent. What is important is Kerry's opposition to unjust wars and what he would do if he was the one making the decisions.

Maybe the campaign was right and maybe it was wrong on this, but this is not really worth dwelling on. 2008 is not 2004. Kerry has said that if he runs again he will do things differently. Just as important, the country is ready now, while many weren't in 2004, for a candidate running in this manner.

[k j]

43. It's deja vu all over again

B-)

[Dr Ron]

44. Definately deja vu

I recall writing a blog post saying virtually the same as this once before after Kerry spoke out agaisnt Iraq and many were claiming he was saying the right thing but was too late.

If only the Kerry bashers would pay attention to what Kerry has been saying before making their claims.

[k j]

48. It's all be said...

over and over and over again.

[WilliamPitt]

45. 35th anniversarry

[k j]

49. A typo, I'm sure

[Dr Ron]

59. A typo

25 years, 35 years. Time flies

[Old and In the Way]

47. I'm not sure it was late, but I do think he's turning the heat up on his

rhetoric. Maybe the lamestream media is finally giving him some media oxygen, too.

Thanks.

Bob

[WildEyedLiberal]

54. "lamestream media"

I like that one! :D

[NewJeffCT]

58. Rate the speech up on Yahoo then

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060422/ap_on_go_co/kerry_iraq

BOSTON - Those who disagree with the Bush administration's policies in
Iraq face the same scornful charges that they are unpatriotic as Sen.
John Kerry did 35 years ago when he spoke out against the Vietnam War, the Massachusetts Democrat said Saturday.

"I have come here today to reaffirm that it was right to dissent in 1971 from a war that was wrong. And to affirm that it is both a right and an obligation for Americans today to disagree with a President who is wrong, a policy that is wrong, and a war in Iraq that weakens the nation," Kerry said to a standing ovation Saturday at Boston's historic Faneuil Hall.

Kerry's speech came 35 years to the day after he testified before the
Senate Foreign Relations Committee to call for an end to the Vietnam war.

"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" Kerry said in 1971, a line that helped propel the decorated Navy combat veteran and Yale graduate onto the national stage.

[leftofthedial]

63. did he "un-quit" from 2004 yet?

[blm]

69. If you can find a whistleblower to admit the rigging under oath, he will.

.

[leftofthedial]

70. why would a whistleblower care more than the injured party?

If Kerry wouldn't fight, why should some clerk?

[blm]

71. Kerry has no case without a whistleblower. He has nothing to fight without

some evidence of rigging. The machines are no help, since rigged machines are set up for onetime use and need to be found BEFORE the vote, as after is too late.

Kerry is still involved in cases in Ohio, but none are about rigged machines.

So, if you know a whistleblower send that person to Jonathan Winer or Kerry's office.