An elder's point of view.

[Vinca]

This morning I was waiting in line to get into one of my favorite church bazaars and struck up a conversation with the elderly, 80-something woman in front of me. After chatting for a few minutes about gas prices, King George ruining the country and how we prefer buying used items at church sales rather than new items made in China, she got the saddest look on her face. She said, "You know what bothers me the most? It's the kids. They'll never know how good it was in this country. They'll never get to experience what I did. It's just gone." I just nodded and said, "I know." So sad.

[MADem]

1. Holy shit, I had that same conversation just this morning with my neighbor

He's a tough old bird, a Korea vet, and damn, he said almost the exact same thing. His comment was "That crazy bastard has RUINED it. RUINED IT!"

[acmavm]

2. I think about that a lot. And when I think about it and my 13-year old

son, I get very depressed.

[saltpoint]

8. acmavm, if that America is still living in you, then you are its

witness, its messenger, its ambassador, and to me that suggests your 13-year old son is one lucky soul.

If Bush had killed that America, you wouldn't still be one of the gleaming reasons it still survives.

My guess is that there's some pretty darned good parenting going on at your house in Nebraska.

Carry on!

[acmavm]

12. Thank you so very much. But really, you would probably think differently

if you knew how many times the school has called me at work this week.

You know, it's just like Patrick is starting to not care anymore. It seems like he's very depressed. I know that he thinks things are all screwed up in this world. And remember what it was like during Viet Nam? Remember how, when we were very young, it felt like there would be nothing left for us when we grew up? I think a LOT OF KIDS feel the same way.

That's why I was sooooo happy to see the pictures of the kids demonstrating today, even willing to be arrested. That means there's still some fight left in the young ones.

[saltpoint]

13. Well, you hang in there. Offer your son all the support you can

possibly offer, and ask him if there's anything that would be a lift.

When I was fairly young I had the great benefit of older cousins who engaged me in productive ways so I could develop into a more sure-footed individual, despite the bad news out the window of the world.

If you know of other parents around your town who have older kids -- doesn't matter whether it's a girl or a boy -- maybe plan an event or two and see if your son grafts onto that older friend. It can be a real circuit-breaker if the older friend is affirming and non-threatening.

If there's any cookiejar money, surprise him with a small present. On the card, write, "Because you are one of the good guys."

Only a suggestion. I bet you know what you're doing, acmavm.

Hope to run into you again on DU.

[acmavm]

17. I'm sure you will. I spend quite a bit of time here. When Patrick lets me

use the computer.

[LuckyLib]

3. I talked with my 92 year old Dad this morning, and said, "I

never thought I'd live to see the day when Tricky Dick Nixon seems benign." His response: "Yeah, Bush has certainly made a mess of things, hasn't he? Maybe the higher oil prices will sweep 'em all out in November, with Bush right behind 'em." Hope it's so, Dad, hope it's so.

[brokensymmetry]

4. K&R. That really is the tragedy...

America had something special; perhaps, something truly unique in
the world. And it's gone. I was fortunate; I got to hear the
echoes, got to see part of the structure before it went to ruin.

I will not live to see America fully recover, no matter what happens
in November. I suspect no one reading this will either.

That's a shame.

[tularetom]

5. For a lot of reasons I wish my parents were still alive

They were staunch republicans who viewed things from the "fiscal libertarian" position, although my mother also could be classified as a social libertarian. They both died in 2003 and defended * to the end, having bought into the "repubs stand for less government" bullshit line. I'd love to see what they thought if they could see what has happened in just three years.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

6. You know

You know what they'd have thought.

Don't you?

[tularetom]

10. Yeah actually I do

It sure was fun to argue with 'em though. Now I'm the old fart in the family and my kids and grandkids think I'm a hippie. But I'm actually kind of a live and let live person myself so that appeals to all the gun nuts in the family (the one topic we all agree on).

[thereismore]

7. I understand the sentiment, but I refuse to believe that

America is gone. The popular opinion has shifted. It is now 60%+ dispproval for the bushie*. People are not THAT stupid! It just hasn't manifested itself in elections. The biggest shift happened after the 04 election, when the bushies spent their "capital". I have got to see democrats lose in '06 before I say that this country is gone. A lot of this stuff is reversible. The world opinion is reversible - it just takes a new face in the WH with an apology to the whole world. I still believe that's possible. Until then, I refuse to believe that America is gone.

[Boomer]

9. Disapproval no longer matters

America is gone because the political machinery has been coopted by corporate interests. The vote of the general public is practically meaningless, especially since the candidates they vote for -- Republican OR Dem -- are only those who are willing to play the game.

Until we clean up both the election process itself AND the web of corporate donations and corruption, the disapproval of the American citizenry is irrelevant.

[vickitulsa]

11. I'm glad to hear a counterpoint opinion, since the utter grimness

of the OP's forecast is really depressing.

However, just two days ago I was thinking exactly the same thing as Vinca's 80-year-old "church lady" -- and apparently others, to read the responding posts.

What prompted my conclusion was a talk with a neighbor who is about 40. She is just old enough to understand the trouble our country is in but a tad bit too young to really remember those "good old days" I recall quite well.

My dad was a WWII vet and Mom was an actual "Rosie Riveter" who sang the songs of their era around the house (and to this day lives in her own mental world where America is still like it was then). I picked up the songs from her, can still sing them, and lately have done so more than usual. Wonder if that's because in my heart I am longing for a time when America was so different from today?....

I was talking to the neighbor about my present grim outlook, and in just a couple of sentences from her mouth, I realized that she could NOT recall way better times in this country. THAT is what shook me up!

I came inside, picked up my autoharp, and sang a couple of those WWII-era songs before my voice choked up with emotion and I paused to try and understand WHY. Why was I suddenly moved to tears by these songs?

I remembered growing up in the 50's, when life in "heartland" America seemed so stable and promising, and my country was a shining light to the world. I came of age during the 60's, when America's halo slipped dramatically due to the civil rights issues and the Vietnam War. But then I participated in a huge movement mostly of young people who took to the streets and risked a lot in order to end that war and lift a "minority" race upward, if not to "equality," at least a big step toward it!

So for a very long time my feeling about my country's prospects was that we the people still had the power to end wrongdoing by our government and set things aright again. It wasn't easy to accomplish, and it didn't happen instantly; but we DID IT, we raised our voices, asserted our power as citizens, and America changed course in a pretty dramatic fashion.

But I'm getting old now, will be 57 in a couple of months, and I'm disabled. I feel vulnerable because I'm dependent on governmental social programs that are cutting my benefits. There is no way I could march in the streets, and the only place I see young Americans showing the fire and determination it takes to bring change is here on DU~! I try to help inspire and encourage them, but I wonder if we oldtimers acting as cheerleaders and "motivational speakers" of a sort will be enough....

Sorry for musing at length on this subject, folks, but it's a very serious situation we are facing today, as DUers well know. In my heart, I want so badly to join the fight to save my country, to help others WAKE UP to the dangers of apathy and inaction!

I feel new hope every time someone like you, Thereismore, talks about the downward trend being reversible, and I do believe many Americans are recognizing they've been duped and used by the Republicans and sold out by a fanatic madman in the White House. I do so hope you are right!

[Vinca]

15. ARRRGGGHHH!

"But I'm getting old now, will be 57 in a couple of months . . ." You're not old! 'cause if you are, I'm in worse shape at 58! Think of Mick Jagger strutting his bony buns at 60. We're what 40 used to be. I'm sorry if my post got you down. I've been somewhat down in the dumps of late - maybe I should start a journal to try to work things out. When I hear the names and home towns of dead soldiers I can barely keep it together anymore. Heck, today there was an obituary for a little bull terrier in the paper that drove me to tears ("Spike Michael Mahoney"). I've been listening to the oldies - "Tommy" by the Who is currently in the CD player - and wishing it hadn't all gone by so fast. Like the old lady I talked to, I wish kids could experience the innocence and silliness of Phineas T. Bluster and 3 channels on the black and white television and being able to go trick or treating without your parents because it was safe. I know that's got nothing to do with King George, but his actions are what has caused me to lose hope that our kids will have a decent world, that their lot in life will be better than ours. Isn't that what usually happens? One generation makes things better for the next. Oh well, the daffodils are out and the asparagus is coming up in the garden. Life goes on.

[hedgehog]

14. Did anyone hear Ted Kennedy on the Daily Show this week?

He spoke about how this country did great things after WWII and how it's time to do great things again instead of hiding from the Boogie Man (my word, not his, but you get the idea.) He did say that Ameica is nothing without Hope. I think that says it best. Unless we are working for a better world for all, we lose our way.

[AuntiBush]

16. Good Grief! Hearing the Exact Same Thing...

in my neck of the woods. Could not agree more. Seriously sad state we're in. Earlier today someone said "it's as if we've been hi-jacked from within."

Feeling more like one huge continuously rape.