Why do people always compare our gas prices w/certain European countries

[mtnsnake]

like France and Germany who produce no oil?

Other than just a few oil-producing European countries like the UK and Russia, how many European countries have their own oil wells like we do? Plus the high prices associated with European countries are usually because their gasoline is way more heavily taxed than ours is. Maybe that's why they can afford to take care of their country's intra-structure, too, because of their higher gasoline taxes.

Now I know we can't survive forever solely on what our wells produce, but these comparisons of our oil-producing country with other countries who produce NO oil are a little silly. No?

[mcscajun]

1. We can't survive very long at all on what our wells produce.

We import somewhere around 60% of the oil we use every day.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Then why are we importing so much oil?

Why do our prices go up depending on OPEC?
Why do we care what the Middle Eastern countries do with their oil?
Why haven't we done what we could have done to develop alternative energy to make this country independent of fossil fuel?

[FloridaPat]

4. Because for the last 40 years our gov't has been trying to reduce

our dependency on foreign oil from 30% it was during the 60's to the present day 60%.

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Huh? Not very effectively due to the influence of the oil companies' and

automobile companies' lobbying.
If we had kept up the CAFE standards from when they were first introduced we would be close to free from oil dependent on the Middle East and other foreign sources of fossil fuel by now.

We should have had automobiles that were getting 60-70 mpg as standard by now, IF they were using fossil fuel at all.

Where is all the money that should have been put into public transportation to discourage automobile usage?

What happenend to the tax incentives for solar energy and solar panels for homeowners so that fuel costs and fossil fuel usage for electricity could be reduced?

[FloridaPat]

19. I think the tax incentives were recinded under Bush 1. I remember

taking them when Reagan was in office and that they disappeared shortly thereafter.

As for public transportation - some of the big cities have good public transportation. NYC, Chicago, DC. Most other places have people who would rather drive to work in 20 minutes than spend an hour on a bus. Trains for some reason don't get built too often. I love train for commuting. No worry about traffic.

I had thought that when the price of gas went sky high ages ago people would have learned their lesson. I guess not. It was at that point we should have started going for big gas mileage. However, think about this - gas taxes. The higher the mpg on a car, the less money the gov't gets. You really don't expect the gov't to cut it's own taxes do you?

[GOPBasher]

3. True, but our oil wells are in the down slope. And worldwide

production will peak in the next few years as well. So, we can expect unbelievable increases in the price of oil/gasoline for good.

[FloridaPat]

5. It's to make us feel good that we get so much with so little taxes.

Sorta backfired now.

[BooScout]

7. The two are compared.....

To show that you can get a working public transportation system by taxing gas. It does four things...encourages people to drive less, encourages them to use public transportation more, saves energy and creates less pollution.

The comparison is merely to show that it can be done. I know the roads here in the UK are much better maintained than most US roads.

And no the comparisons are not silly. They are in fact valid and relevant.

[BrklynLiberal]

8. Many good points.

[moondust]

9. PsyOps.

Designed to make us feel thankful that we get gas so "cheap" and comfortable with the idea of continued price increases until we achieve "parity" with Europe.

[BrklynLiberal]

10. Exactly. Just like all the ATMs that were free at first. Get you hooked,

and now you have to pay thru the nose for them, and you feel you have no choice.

[stellanoir]

11. Inclusive of many of those high prices

is the financing of National Health care in many of those countries.

That's nothing to sneeze at.

[Coastie for Truth]

12. High tax on gasoline to discourage driving, importing oil

and also to fund universal health care.

I would gladly pay $5.00/gallon to

(1) Pay for Universal, Single Payer Health Care, and
(2) Become Energy Independent (and bring our troops home from Iraq and Sinai

But I have a Prius and live in a "transit village" --> which is what $5.00/gallon would encourage.

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. You don't get Universal Health Care that cheap

See this similar earlier thread for what actually comes in and goes out of some European spending: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x996495

[Coastie for Truth]

17. I am well aware of that.

I generally use $3500 as a "back of the envelope" number for the cost of health insurance per "covered person" for web site comments and $4700 as a "back of the envelope" number for the cost of universal, single payer health insurance per "taxpayer".

I generally use 550 US gallons as the average annual gasoline consumption per "principal car" in the US.

These are just the range of numbers from business periodicals, government agencies, etc.

Figuring one "principal car" for each "taxpayer" - the gasoline tax would have to be $8.55/gallon - totally unreasonable.

But a $2.00/gallon tax, at 550 gallons/year would yield about $1100/year - which would put a nice dent in the $4700 that would otherwise have to come from a capitation tax or income tax.

These are just back of the envelope calculations to show orders of magnitude.

[Kellanved]

13. "no" isn't exactly correct

Germany produces some oil.

The reason for the European gas prices are the higher taxes anyway. One might argue that the tax actually makes little difference; it only means that the gas prices are about one year ahead in their development, while paying for a lot of useful stuff.

[MADem]

16. And the Brits, et. al, have the north sea oil fields

http://www.iags.org/n0524043.htm

In decline, but they are still working them...

[MADem]

15. We never compare our prices with those of Iraq, Iran or Saudi, though

...do we??? Sixty five cents a gallon in EGYPT!!! Twelve cents in Venezuela!!!!

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/

[caledesi]

18. The tax includes national heath care.....among other things

It's the dirty little secret.
edit: usual stuff