I'm beginning to think that a return to chain gangs is preferable

[Skidmore]

to the American prison system as it exists today. Just watching a documentary on San Quentin. Prison is definitely not a rehabilitative place. Too many people crammed into confined areas with nothing constructive to do. At least working on a chain gang would teach job skills. I know some will respond to this post with outrage. But right now I am outraged by the total waste of humanity I am seeing on my teevee screen.

[Mr_Spock]

1. lol - yeah, those sledgehammer swinging skills are in great need

these days :rofl:

Sorry, I can't initially think of what skill they are learning on a chain gang - any ideas?

At least some of them educate themselves while in jail which can be useful...

[Skidmore]

3. Well, who says they need to swing sledge hammers.

How about redeeming themselves by rebuilding our infrastructure.

[Mr_Spock]

5. Can you make prisoners rebuild infrastructure?

It's a good idea, don't get me wrong, but are there any liability concerns when you have forced labor working on structures that have safety as a concern?

[Skidmore]

11. I don't know abut liability issues. But having these people

do something besides hang around a prison yard and fight with anyone who looks crosseyed at them would be preferable. Forced labor? Committing crimes cost them their rights as citizens. We don't expect people to suffer shame or remorse really in todays society. There was a role for shame and earning redemption once. There still is a need for it.

[Mr_Spock]

17. I thought they made license plates?

And made some other products that aren't taking away from American jobs.

Which criminals would you put on the chain gang?

Martha Stuart

A drug addict

A mass murderer or

Some sort of crime involving property theft

...or ?

[pitohui]

27. why should an honest man be allowed to hold a job, right?

did you know in years gone by construction workers could actually buy a truck, a car for the wife, and a house

now they have to compete w. illegal immigrants and now prisoners too?

jeebus people, a little common sense would be nice

while you're giving away jobs to prisoners, let us start w. all the professor's jobs

[rpannier]

14. My only problem with your idea is...

This would be another way to unemploy non-prison workers.

[SPKrazy]

4. Who Says They All Need Education Or Job Skills?

I think that a chain gang is a good thing, especially when it is really hot


they might think twice about committing crimes


also should give them educational opportunities to some extent

[Mr_Spock]

7. What crimes? Smoking a joint or armed robbery?

It seems people are put away for just as long for minor drug crimes as violent crimes these days, which folks are you talking about? What sorts of criminals should be on a chain gang?

[SPKrazy]

35. Real Crimes

no not smoking a joint, or using drugs

dealing drugs yes
robbery yes
felonies that a crimes against others

[William769]

2. Florida went to chain gangs back the mid 90's.

[Cleita]

6. They have them in my area, well not in chains, but

they bring the prisoners out and make them work on clearing brush in ditches and pruning trees back from the power lines. Sounds like a good job for Bush when he goes to prison. He already has all that experience clearing brush at the ranch.

[Mr_Spock]

9. I think we have that also - or maybe it's part of the "community service"

part of their sentence - I don't know. But you often see them removing litter from the median strip on highways...

[Cleita]

19. These guys aren't community service.

They are out there in their mustard colored jumpsuits,(not orange in my county) with the prison bus parked alongside the road, clearly marked, and the guards are with them supervising.

When my husband was alive and getting dialysis, they used to bring them into the dialysis clinic in handcuffs and shackles.

[Mr_Spock]

20. Hmmm, these guys are delivered in a van & wear regular clothing

Anyway, every community has it's own programs - I'm not an expert, just an observer.

[Cleita]

22. Here our community service guys wear orange vests and

pick up trash along the freeway. They aren't in prison.

[Mr_Spock]

28. Now that sounds about the same as here

ok

[sonoranleftist]

8. The prison system is old fashioned and deserves to die a natural death

With all of the new electronic monitoring thats out now anyone who commits a "so called crime" can be monitored at home.

[William769]

10. You think it's old fashioned?

I don't think you know the history of the penal system in the U.S.

[sonoranleftist]

12. Yes I do

What besides policy is new about a prison? Thet still have guards and cells don't they?

[William769]

21. They are not beaten on a daily basis.

They get medical care, 3 meals a day. Just to name a few. No solitary confinement 24 hours a day And the list goes on.

And Yes I am retired from a Prison system & I have a degree in Criminology, so I do know a little bit.

[sweetheart]

31. just the minor problem that the people are not criminals

So it seems, if i want stateside medical care in old age,
i'll have to go to prison. . . the irony of the
massive governmetn welfare states.. may the evil thing
collapse soon on.

[newyawker99]

29. Hi sonoranleftist!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[sonoranleftist]

36. Hi and thank you all for the welcome

[Blue_Tires]

34. welcome to the site!

[seriousstan]

16. Absolutely, a simple "time out" is what is needed here.

Your own bed, your wife and kids, any in home recreation you want and the ability to still hang in your own yard. This will be punishment enough for any crime. If they misbehave, take away their gameboy and ipod and make them do the lawn work without jams. OOOOOOOOOO

[Gabi Hayes]

13. great idea for white collar criminals

CSPAN doing insiders' look at Enron

they have an apologist for Enron on right now

former director of Public Policy for.....Enron!

[Faux pas]

15. In the Calif prison system, inmates are not forced to work. If

they do work, they are given one day off their sentence for each day they work. If they don't work, they serve their full term. If they are parole violators, they serve their full term whether they work or not. They finally made it mandatory that they can read at the ninth grade level. So many are illiterate they should at least have the skills to be able to fill out a job application.

I worked for corrections and the revolving door theory isn't just a theory. For some reason a very large percentage of felons seem to love it there. They keep coming back, some within just weeks of parole. In the winter, they are practically beating down the door to get back in.

A very large percentage have substance abuse problems. I always thought they should be on monitoring devices and kept out of prison so they could work and still support their families. But hey, that would be logical and save Calif from building a new prison every year or so.

I read an article, think it was posted here on DU, that there are over 170,000 inmates in Calif. That's not an accurate number, they don't count the ones who are on the buses being transported, they only count the ones who are actually on prison grounds.

oops, I guess I've spent over my 2 cents worth. ;)

[Asgaya Dihi]

18. Who and why?

Before we start a new get tough kick, it might be worth considering who we have in our prisons and jails and why.

The United States is currently the single most imprisoned nation in the world with the next closest being Russia, we passed them years ago and they've been reforming as ours still grows. Among nations more similar to us we imprison our own people at a rate five to eight times what they do, prison and jail.

A large number, maybe most depending on the system, are in for drug related crimes, many of those being unarmed and non-violent. Even among the ones who are violent they often started as a non-violent first time offender. We're locking them up for petty offenses and creating an institutionalized generation. The racial imbalance is real and all too often has more to do with economics and circumstance than they do with the particular crimes committed.

It might make a lot more sense to reform the system rather than trying to make it tougher. We still can't even keep the drugs out of our own prisons, it might be time to look for other options.

[AngelFactor]

23. Here's a thought

How about we cease warehousing millions of ppl for non-violent drug "crimes?"

I'll allow you to do the math.
It costs apx $30,000 per year to keep someone incarcerated, the recidivism rate is apx 70%.
Residential drug treatment costs apx $7,000 per year to treat someone, the recidivism rate is apx 30%.

Currently there are over 2,000,000 ppl incarcerated.

Think of all the schools we could build . . . instead of building prisons. Schools create jobs, too.
Hell, we might even create options! Don't want to get too excited, there is too much infrastructure invested in the War on (some) Drugs to allow for any change. At least the world can see where the US's priorities are now. And, naturally, the rest of the world is scared. Yes, rightfully so.

Okay, I think you can take it from here.
AngelFactor

[IChing]

24. "What we have here is a failure to communicate"

"what we have here is a failure to communicate".........Cool Hand Luke

So a chain gang is constructive, how about looking elsewhere instead of the past for our solutions

Scandinavian Penal system: http://www.nsfk.org/publications/books.shtml

[justice1]

25. One problem is the increase of former mental patients in prison.

They have closed down so many mental health facilities, that patients end up in the prison system.

[pitohui]

26. prisoners are already taking other people's jobs

just how many slaves are we expected to compete with?

a man in my town lost a six figure landscaping contract for his business when our town switched to using prison labor

christ, soon the only way you will be able to be fed and housed is to shoot somebody

[dogday]

30. PIS or Prison Industries Stock is one of the fastest

growing stocks around... They are taking these guys and putting them to work for a profit..

I really believe that is why they are willing to send as many away as possible....

[Orangepeel]

32. clearly, the prison system doesn't work

it's inhumane, non-rehabilitative, and makes nonviolent criminals violent and violent criminals worse.

I don't know exactly what to do about it -- I'd suggest separate systems for people who can benefit from treatment, such as hospitals for the mentally ill and rehab programs for drug offenders.

I don't know what to do about violent offenders once they become so. I do believe that there has to be things that can be done for inner city youth early that will help prevent the violence in the first place.

[NNN0LHI]

33. Hey maybe we can put them all to work in the cotton fields?

Swing low, sweet chariot,

Come down from above, heavenly vehicle,

Comin' for to carry me home...

Coming to take me to heaven...

Don