Heading to Europe with the family this summer

[Goblinmonger]

for 15 days. Me, my wife, daughter (16), and son (13). Planning on hitting the Rhine, Amsterdam, Paris, Barcelona, Venice, and Bavaria. Any thoughts or suggestions? We are all vegetarian (eat dairy and eggs) if that sparks any thoughts.

We are considering renting a car for our stay in Bavaria/Munich based on what we have read about trains being frustrating to get to some of the things in that area. Thoughts/suggestions on that would be appreciated.

[yy4me]

1. I envy you this trip but If I may suggest , narrow it down.

You are hitting 5 countries in 15 days. Did you allot 2 days from this for air time leaving you 13?

Germany(Rhine, Bavaria), Holland, France, Italy and Spain. Can't be done unless you are going with the "if it's Tuesday, it must be Belgium" type of travel. )

There is so much to do in any of these countries, I would assess your interests and narrow it down a lot.I have been to Holland, Belgium, France and Germany and each time we went, we did one or 2 countries and did them well within a 2 week period. I have yet to go to Italy or Spain so I'd be no help to you but if you'd like some general info on France, Germany or Holland, I may be able to give you some tips.(more so for France and the Rhine and Mosel areas of Germany.

Do you enjoy museums, history, castles and ruins, wine, food? Help us a little. The vegetarian aspect will not be daunting. You will find that everyone speaks English and if you invest in one of the $20.00 Franzus translators, you will be able to find the words(s) you need to express yourself.

Renting a car in France or Italy is horribly expensive. Italy requires that you buy the extra insurance from the car rental folks. (always buy travel insurance, BTW, see www.travelguard.com but there are others.

Give us all a little more detail and we'll see what we can do for you. And also, keep in mind that renting a car will be cheaper than train tickets for 4 people and yes, you can get to all kinds of places with a car with no waiting for the next train. I guess if I was on my way it Italy, I would plan it all by bus and train. Other than that, a car is the way to go. Get lots of quotes, including through your airline. We have always used Autoeurope with success.

[elleng]

2. I agree, yy; they should consolidate.

Very tough. I'm sure they've chosen countries carefully, but won't have enough time in any to get a useful imppression. Driving in such unfamiliar places, with language and signage issues, will slow yhem down, but will also provide lots to learn and remember.

If they do Venice, MUST take train; no place for cars. RR station right on canal, and hotel (ours!) up the street.

I'd suggest split trip into 2; this year and next: Romance countries, and others.

More later!

[Retrograde]

3. too much for one short trip

Amsterdam/the Rhine/Bavaria is almost doable in 2 weeks. Remember you're going to be jet-lagged when you arrive, and depending on where you're flying from it can take 2-4 days to adjust to the local time. Keeping to German-speaking areas means you'll have a better chance to pick up some phrases (while a lot of people speak English, don't assume everyone does. It's polite to learn the local phrase for Do you understand English before wading in).

I've driven in Bavaria, and the roads are good. Germany has a lot of places where you can pull off and take a walk through the forests. Munich has a good food market: consider buying breads, cheeses and produce and making lunches to take along, as restaurants can be expensive. Learn the words for "vegetarian" and "meatless": it's getting easier to find vegetarian food, but it can still be a challenge. If you plan to stay in one city as a base consider renting an apartment for a week: I find it easier to adjust to the time difference with a bit more space, and being able to make even one meal a day saves time and money.

If you're going in summer be prepared to encounter vast swarms of tourists, especially in Venice and Paris. Many Europeans take their own month-long holiday in August, so some local shops may be closed. Museums will be crowded: if you plan to stay 3 or more days in Paris consider getting the Museum Pass (sold at Metro stations as well as museums): it gets you in to a large number of museums through a special entrance which bypasses the long lines.

Sorry if this is rambling - we got back from 2 weeks in Switzerland (expensive, but great transportation system) and northern Italy a few days ago and I'm still not readjusted.

[yy4me]

4. Hey Goblinmonger, where have you been? We've been ready

to hear your final plans and you've been quiet. Fill us in so that we can live your trip with you!!

[Goblinmonger]

5. OK, sorry I've been absent from the thread

Wanted to get plans down a little more before responding. These seem to be the main responses with my thoughts:

Too many countries
At some level I agree with you. So does my wife. In our estimation, it is Barcelona that is causing the problem. To alleviate some of that, we are flying from Paris to Barcelona and then from Barcelona to Venice. This is a little more costly (since it makes a pass less savings so we are doing point to point tickets) but buys us A LOT of time.

Honestly, I don't see us changing this. Here's why. My wife spent a summer in Europe in 1983. None of the rest of us have. We aren't going to be able to put this together again next year, though I like the divide the trip in two suggestion. The reality for us is that this is likely the last year to do this as a family. We want to give the kids as much exposure as we can. I am quite sure that my wife and I will return when the kids are out and I would guess that my daughter for sure will return on her own and possibly my son (just based on their personalities at this time). So they will have a taste and can decide where they want to go when they go on their own. This is one of the main reasons for Barcelona staying in. My wife never made it to Spain in the 80s. I can't imagine me ever wanting to go there again (though you never know how much I'll love it) so it is staying (plus my daughter is very stubborn, in a good way, on this one).

What do we enjoy doing?
We are very much NOT touristy types. We like being in the middle of the real place. We would much rather walk around and see real people of the area in their real shops than see all the traditional landmarks (not that we don't want to see them as well). Food isn't overly important (though I am looking forward to good european bread/bakery and feel I need to have waffles in Belgium, croissant in Paris, and pasta in Italy to make it a complete trip) but we want to experience local. We are looking forward to getting fresh fruit and veg at the markets. I want to experience the culture and talk to people that live there rather than find other Americans on a tour somewhere.

I will post our schedule to date in a separate post.

[Goblinmonger]

6. Schedule

I'm sure you're going to have a stroke seeing all we hope/want to do:

June 26—Arrive Frankfurt
· Train to the Rhine tour (Mainz)
· Tour on the Rhine
· Stay overnight in Castle Reichenstein

June 27—Amsterdam
· Train from Rhine to Amsterdam a.m.
· Amsterdam
· Stay overnight in Amsterdam

June 28—Amsterdam
· Amsterdam
· Stay overnight in Amsterdam

June 29—Brussels
· Train from Amsterdam to Brussels a.m.
· Day in Brussels
· Evening train to Paris
· Arrive Paris
· Stay overnight in Paris

June 30—Paris
· Paris
· Stay overnight in Paris

July 1—Paris
· Paris
· Stay overnight in Paris

July 2—Barcelona
· Easyjet flight 3915 from Paris de Gaulle
o Depart: 7:40
o Arrive: 9:20
· Barcelona
· Stay overnight in Barcelona

July 3—Barcelona
· Barcelona
· Stay overnight in Barcelona

July 4—Venice
· Flight from Barcelona
o Depart: 6:25 (1 hour in Rome)
o Arrive: 10:20
· Venice
· Stay overnight in Venice

July 5—Venice
· Venice
· Stay overnight in Venice

July 6—Alps
· Train to Bavaria (Fussen?)
· Rent car in Germany for remainder of stay to be returned to Frankfurt.
· Stay in overnight in Fussen (Or perhaps in Mittenwald)

July 7—Alps
· Alps
· Stay in overnight in Fussen?

July 8—Munich
· Drive from the Alps to Munich
· Stay overnight in Munich

July 9—Munich
· Romanic Road
· Stay overnight in Frankfurt, preferably by the airport.

July 10—Flight Home

[Retrograde]

7. some more suggestions

Venice: take the vaporetto to the islands of Burano or Torcello: the latter used to be a huge town, until the plague it in the late middle ages - it now has a population of ~25, and lots of ruins. In Venice itself, we found a nice little cafe on the square by San Zanipolo - I can't remember its name. Venice is a good walking city - not there's much choice! Watch the gondola-jams off the Grand Canal!

Brussels: The Manneken Pis has its own museum (which will probably be closed on Monday), with all its costumes for special occasions. If you like to visit relics of old world's fairs, the Atomium is worth the subway ride. Try the pommes frits, a national dish (mayo is optional).

Amsterdam: Another good walking city. Some Dutch specialties to try are pannekoeken - pancakes, savory ones for dinner - and rijsttaffel, a reminder of the Dutch colonial era. Amsterdam has a lot of Indonesian restaurants, and these may be your best bet for vegetarian meals. If you're looking for culture, you can't miss the Rijksmuseum.

Paris: in only two days?? Skip the Louvre: yeah, it's got great art but it's huge. If you like Impressionists, the Musee d'Orsay is a friendly size; for modern art there's the Pompidou Center, which IIRC is open evenings. Paris underwent urban renewal in the 1870s, and as a result has a lot of broad avenues and sweeping vistas which can make for a lot of walking. Fortunately, there are a lot of green spaces. Walk in the Tuileries gardens or along the banks of the Seine, visit the islands - Ile-Saint-Louis has a great ice-cream shop, and Ile de la Cite has Notre Dame - take the funicular to Montemartre (touristy, but there's a great view on a clear day). Go window-shopping on the Rue de Faubourg Saint-Honore. Have dinner in the French Quarter. See the stained glass in Ste. Chapelle (IMHO better than Chartres). Warning: Charles de Gaulle is possibly the world's most chaotic airport - and I've been through Narita. Beware of surprise strikes by transit or museum workers: they usually only last a few hours, but they can be inconvenient.

Barcelona: never been there.

Germany: The Germans have touring down to a science, and it's very easy to get around. Most larger towns have a tourist information bureau that for a small fee can help you find a place to stay. Since you'll be in the south, visit one of Mad King Ludwig's castles. Neuschwanstein is the most popular but Linderhoff may not be as crowded. Nuremberg is worth a visit (if you want to do something really weird, you can go the Nazi Party rally grounds, which have been repurposed for various civic uses; in 1998 you could still climb to Hitler's podium, but they were worrying about the integrity of the building so I don't know if that's still possible. It's a very strange place.)

I recommend Rothenberg and Dinkessbuhl along the Romantic Road, and Heidelberg if you have time. In Munich, there's the Deutches Museum, the best science museum I've ever seen (Chicago stole the idea for their Museum of Science and Industry). Bavaria may be one of the harder places to find vegetarian food (they're known for their sausages!), but try around the University in Munich.

And don't forget to allow for jet lag. You don't mention where you're flying from, but you'll be from 6-9 hours off biological time when you arrive and it really does take a toll: expect to 'hit the wall' sometime in the late afternoon for the first 2-3 days. Being active helps you get adjusted somewhat, but don't plan on a big night out the first few days. At least all the places you're going are in the same time zone - and use the same currency!

[Goblinmonger]

8. Awesome, thanks.

Some new stuff in that list for me to consider; thanks so much.

We live in and are leaving from Central time zone. (live in Wisconsin leaving from O'Hare on a non-stop flight.)

[uppityperson]

9. Here's to hoping you are having a GREAT trip!

You can always sleep when you get back home.

[elleng]

10. And they sure will!

PARIS!

Thanks for reminding me about them, uppity!

[uppityperson]

11. I'm headed off to France in another month, visiting family

Going to spend 1 day in Paris before I leave, but mostly out in Normandy eating cheese, fresh veggies, drinking cider and wine........yum

[elleng]

12. Have a great time!

:hi:

[Retrograde]

13. How was it?

Are you back yet? Did you have a good time?

[yy4me]

14. Need trip report. It is mandatory. Hope you had a great time.

[JCMach1]

15. We loved Luxembourg last summer...

Vianden was amazing, quiet and peaceful. Lux. City was also pretty cool.

Also, some of my favorite places in Bavaria:

Rothenberg ob der Tauber
and
Dinkelsbuhl

Both are amazing medieval towns.

Also, the Residency (of the Archbishops) in Wurzburg comes close to rivaling Versailles.



Bruges is also nice if you find yourself in Belgium.




Ummmm... and DON'T skip the Louvre unless you just hate (or the kids hate) art museums.