Has Bush; after destroying our economy; screwed our chances for a trip to Mars?

[newmac]

Run time: 09:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDK4hcd7R2g   Posted on YouTube: December 21, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: December 21, 2008 By DU Member: newmac Views on DU: 1229

 
Probably. Back in '96 the economy was booming; and we were almost on our way. Now its been set back perhaps 25 years.

[gristy]

1. Now that's one creative use of semicolons!

[gordianot]

2. George Bush promises to be a permanent set back to America.

We will never shake his debt.

[Wizard777]

8. So basically, one way or another, we will be forever indebted to George Bush.

As always with Bush we just can't win for losing. But either way he's coming out of it on top. Dumbass my foot! He's an evil genius.

[Wizard777]

9. I don't think a trip to Mars is something we should go at alone. Discovery should be shared.

It usually demands it. That's why people say, look what I found! This should be a, look what WE found!

[balantz]

3. Won't be long before Earth is like Mars anyway, at the rate we're going! n/t

[quidam56]

7. Appalachia is already turning into a moonscape

Thanks to Presidebt Bush and THE COAL INDUSTRY http://www.wisecountyissues.com Appalachia is a toxic third world America !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkmb8bcTcM

[LongTomH]

4. It looks like China will be the next country on the moon!

Check this YouTube video: Space Race: India, China move ahead ~ Will the U.S. get left behind?

This isn't exactly news; someone posted a "Asia Moon Race" YouTube link months ago. JFK wanted to join with the Russians in space exploration; sadly, no one is proposing an international Moon-Mars initiative.

[avaistheone1]

5. Many Americans would simply appreciate a trip to the doctors rather than a trip to Mars.

How about single-payer universal coverage, before shooting us to Mars.

Does China have national health care too? Unfortunately, they will beat our sorry asses at that too.

[FormerDittoHead]

6. Two things 1) Dick Morris 2) Manned mission to Mars. Tin Foil Hat stuff.

1) Dick Morris, by revealing the secret of the meteorite to his girlfriend for hire, was the one who made the team of scientists dash out and make the announcement sooner than they wanted to. Next, he has since come out as some FoxNews commentator. I give Dick Morris no credibility for what he would have said about such a mission for the future.

2) If we invest in ANYTHING, there will be offshoots of technology. Look at offshoots from military research, yet I couldn't think of anything LESS useful for primary research.

So, with the "offshoots from space" argument lessened, let's put two things into perspective, and I'm going to blow your mind.

First off, ROBOTICS. I know it's not like sending Buck Rodgers up there, but this ain't the 50's, and I seriously doubt 30% of Americans have even SEEN Buck Rodgers outside of that TERRIBLE movie from the 80's. If we put some SERIOUS money into ROBOTICS and ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE rather than the long term environmental sustainably of a Mars mission *I* think we'd be way ahead of the game in terms of the offshoots and their benefit to our future society.

BUT MOSTLY, AS YOU GET YOUR TIN FOIL HATS ON, GET THIS: I DON'T *WANT* TO INVENT ADVANCED METHODS OF ARTIFICIAL ENVIRONMENTS.

Huh?

I mean, you've got this crowd of people (oil companies, coal, etc., etc) who are STILL pretending we're not killing our planets by inches every day.

The LAST thing I want to do is to pay for inventing the technology which will let us live in houses with processed air, drive in our cars with processed air, and other devices which will basically give us license to DESTROY OUR PLANET but "That's OK, because you can always use the Acme Air Extractor that the government invented".

I want to live in THIS Earth, not some future "Soilent Green", polluted Earth...

[comtec]

14. You're thinking of FLASH GORDON!

Buck Rodgers was a sci-fi show from the early/mid 80's.
it played at the same time as Knight Rider - both fav's of mine.

The advantage of space travel are that there are lifeless asteroids with mega-tons of the materials we need for building and fusion reactor fuel.

At the same tiem Solar is far more viable as a energy source because of the LACK of an atmosphere. ironically extra-earth travel and life will be greener than ON earth life.

Any colony base will have several arboretums to grow food and help with air purification and recycling. You simply can't expect a machine to do that all on it's own, for a permanent period of time.

What we learn about re-building Mars into a green(er) planet will help is restore our OWN planet.

And the people that will be going out into space will be some of the best of humanity. The smart, strong, durable types. better breeding to be a little cynical about it. Spacers will probably be far smarter, and tougher than earthers. The species will split, and hopefully for the better.

Maybe in as soon as 200 years the spacers will look back and see earthers (Sol-ites?) as relics. The previous version.

That's probably best for humans as a species.

The short term gain of a space race is always knowledge and new tech, cleaner tech. After all it was the space race that brought us modern batteries and Solar Power.

[mikehiggins]

10. Guys, maybe it seems defeatist but we are done as a world power

China, India and to some degree our friends in Central and South America are going to call the shots before too much longer. We are inheriting the role Britain plays now. Remember the guy behind that curtain? After Reagan, Bush, Clinton (yes, Bill Nafta comes in for some blame as well) and Bozo the King (along with his Dick) have buried this country so far in the whole that Obama will be a Hero of the Revolution if he just manages to hold things together until we get past the Free Trader's Depression.

It is not beyond possibility that we face riots, attempted coups and possibly another civil war replete with our own domestic terrorists a la McVeigh.

Thank you George so very, very much.

Mars ain't in the cards folks. Cat food dinners are.

[cooolandrew]

11. I think we've got to get it right on this planet before we trash another that seems the >

wisest path.

[yurbud]

12. no, Wall Street bailout shows anything is a matter of will

If they can pull $700 billion out of their asses for the bailout, they could do the same for a trip to mars, single payer healthcare, or decent k-12 funding and free college education. If anything isn't done, its because the rich don't see it as in their interest.

[tclambert]

13. There have to be limits to sheer will, but you are on to something.

The original moon landing program cost something like, . . . well, wait, here it is from Wikipedia:

"According to Steve Garber, the NASA History website curator, the final cost of project Apollo was between $20 and $25.4 billion in 1969 dollars (or approximately $135 billion in 2005 dollars)."

That was spread over a 13 year period. So, roughly $10.4B a year in 2005 dollars. If you can pull $700B out of the magic ass, then this is a pittance. But of course they are whining about how expensive the auto company bailout is at 1/50 the cost.

It's will, and it's a lack of long term vision. That's right, I brought up the "vision thing." Where do we want America to be 20 years from now? Too many elections away to think about? How about 10 years? Kennedy made a ten-year commitment to the moon program. Are we too cowardly to do even that much?

(Edited for math.)

[yurbud]

16. you would think some defense contractors would be pushing it since we lack high tech enemies

[jimlup]

15. Unfortunately, It would be a stunt

I'm a big advocate for space exploration BUT... there are several big problems with a "Humans to Mars" program.

1. It can be better done by ROBOTS - there is no need to invest the overhead for humans since the scientific investigation can be better done with Robots as the mars rovers have impressively demonstrated.

2. The technical issues of actually getting Humans back from Mars are non-trivial.

3. Generally space-technology provides fewer jobs per dollar spent than other government stimulus packages. (Don't have a reference for this but I'm sure I know where to look).

4. Much like the moon missions in the '60s it would suffer from the stunt phenomena and once the initial celebration was over the expense to maintain the program would likely be too high to sustain it.

I'd love to see a program to return to the moon. I believe this would be a realistic goal at this point in the manned space program. It would not be for scientific exploration as again - that can be better done with robots. Placing a functioning and permanent base on the moon would have long term benifits and it would provide the space program with a reasonable and reachable goal. It would not be a technical stretch which placing astronauts on Mars would be. The technology to establish a permanent base on the moon is more mature than it was in the 70's and is thus likely to be viable as a long term investiment.