Christopher Hitchens vs. Bill O'Reilly on Torture

[dcsmart]

Run time: 04:06 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOyAik-AfTM   Posted on YouTube: January 13, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: January 13, 2009 By DU Member: dcsmart Views on DU: 1361

 
see Huffington Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/12/christopher-hitchens-deba_n_157341.html

see Christopher Hitchens actually get waterboarded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7u-Wk1aU-E

see my post Primetime Torture
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x258048

[glowing]

1. As usual, cut to the break when O' butt head is losing an argument.

[heliarc]

2. I don't know why O'Reilly even tries

with Hitchens. The intellectual divide between these two men is so expansive as to fit Rush Limbaugh's ass in between.

[DUlover2909]

3. Torture is a slippery slope and that's why it shouldn't be used, ever.

It's easy to set up their own "ticking time bomb" scenario and debunk their own argument. Let's say the person being questioned does in fact know where the bomb is. But let's also assume that he is not responsible for the bomb plot, but only knows about it by accident. The real terrorists know that he knows and have told him that if he tells, then his family will be killed. What's the guy supposed to do? Is it fair to torture an innocent man to save the lives of millions of innocent people, and in so doing condemning the man's innocent family? What if the government had the man's daughter in another room and threatened to torture her if he wouldn't talk? Would that be OK? It's the same logic. Hurt one person to save others. What if the man were instead a child? Can we torture children for information? How many people can we torture to save others? Whose lives are more important? Where do we draw the line?

[Bucky]

6. As Hitch pointed out, there's never actually ever been a "ticking bomb" scenario

Pro-torture advocates like to say the Khalid Sheikh Mohammad case was a ticking bomb case, but that's baloney. What they describe is ongoing plots. Mohammad told his interrogators about dozens of plots--only two or three turned out to be real and none of them turned out to be imminent threats. If you read the Jane Mayer book, you'll find out that "soft" interrogation techniques consistantly yield better intelligence more efficiently with fewer blind alley "false confessions" and produce the intelligence much quicker than enhanced interrogation.

Torture isn't really about gathering intelligence; it's about intimidating populations. It's about word leaking out to the street about how viciously you treat your prisoners in the hope that everyone will be too scared to fuck with you. It's the tool of a tyrant.

[Bucky]

4. You know, sometimes I really love what Christopher Hitchens says....

... but I never really feel good about myself for doing so.

[navarth]

7. Yeah, an interesting dichotomy

a guy that has been such a yawning asshole and yet he is right about torture and religion.

[heliarc]

9. I'm not sure why you would feel bad about it.

When you look at Christopher Hitchens' body of work he is a staunch supported of Human Rights and a fearless advocate for oppressed people everywhere... His work on Kissinger is largely responsible for helping many to make a legal case against him. Now he can't fly to Europe anymore. Hitchens also champions Orwell and reserves special hatred for corruption and opportunism of all stripes.

He supported the ouster of Saddam because Saddam was a brutal dictator and supported the attack on Afghanistan because the Taliban are truly as repressive as it gets. He made a mistake to assume that the administration could handle the task at hand, but he has been vocal about the failures to do so.

In some respects I see Hitchens as one of the left's few true intellects. A pacifist he is not. He is interested in destroying fascism wherever it rears its head, and I think he understands the very pragmatic compromises that are required to take that position. I think he came down on the wrong side of the Iraq war issue. Most of our Dem Senators did too, and DUers don't reserve nearly the same kind of vitriol against them as we do for Hitchens. Why? Not sure I know.

[baldguy]

5. Once BillO allows himself to be water boarded, I'll care what he has to say on the subject.

Watching the Hitchens video is horrific.

[quidam56]

8. Right - and Bush has kept U.S. safe from terror since 9/11 ?

Bush is a TOXIC TERRORIST all across the landscape of America the Beautiful. http://www.wisecountyissues.com Appalachia has been bombed, blasted and bulldozed right into Third World America. Hannity's America sure ain't My America.