MUST SEE: Who Wants Peace in the Middle East?

[Hatalles]

Run time: 13:06 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG6sAjgVoj4   Posted on YouTube: January 26, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: January 26, 2009 By DU Member: Hatalles Views on DU: 10443

 
60 Minutes report posted by Michael Moore on YouTube.

[Granny M]

1. Fundies.....

The bane of our existence, no matter what religion.

[EFerrari]

2. Thanks so much for posting this. I missed it.

[Karenina]

5. Seconded!

[trungpa ricochet]

3. Fatal flaw of theocratic states

I believe that the idea of a state, any state, that is founded upon notions of theology is ultimately bound to fail. This goes for the "Jewish State", for the "Islamic Republic", the "Kingdom of Saudi Arabia", et al. Israel is, to any reasonable person, a racist country. As an American, I am ashamed that the foreign policy the US has been so distorted as to have allowed the continuous theft of Palestinian property. There will be no good end to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. It appears that the Palestinians will be either exterminated or driven away, and Israel will try, to the end of its days, to explain its genocidal theological greed as "God's will". Finally, Israel will collapse under the weight of its own arrogance.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. What a load of crap.

You need a diaper for that post.

[trungpa ricochet]

10. Spoken without rebuttal of substance

"A load of crap" is just an opinion. What morality do you use to justify the systematic decimation of a people? There is indeed a difference between Judaism and Zionism. As soon as nations are established for the sake of a chosen few, defined by a religion, they are by definition antidemocratic. There cannot, by definition, ever be democracy and universal suffrage in Israel. Israel cannot justify its dishonesty by wrapping itself up in the horrors of the Nazi holocaust and claiming "self-defense" against people who had nothing to do with the Nazis. Two wrongs never make a right.

[trungpa ricochet]

12. Perfect quotation for Israel's behavior in Gaza and elsewhere

Force without wisdom falls of its own weight -- Horace

Beautiful and ironic.

[Behind the Aegis]

25. Rebuttals are not required, when opinions do quite well.

Your hyperbolic question is beyond stupid.

"There is indeed a difference between Judaism and Zionism." Yes, I know. I have known that for decades.

"As soon as nations are established for the sake of a chosen few, defined by a religion, they are by definition antidemocratic. There cannot, by definition, ever be democracy and universal suffrage in Israel." This demonstrates your lack of knowledge of Israel and her laws.

"Israel cannot justify its dishonesty by wrapping itself up in the horrors of the Nazi holocaust and claiming "self-defense" against people who had nothing to do with the Nazis." Incongruent, dishonest in its writing (maybe not dishonest in earnest, just ignorant), and demonstrating a considerable lack of historical knowledge in a few areas.

"Two wrongs never make a right." Apparently for some they do, they are generally called the "one-staters."

[trungpa ricochet]

27. Opinions and a**holes, as they say...

...everybody's got one. Calling me stupid is a rather childish reply. You disagree with me. So what? It appears you know a lot of things...obviously you are a very wise and worldly person, moral as well.

Ask any Arab Israeli if he has the same property rights as his Jewish neighbors. Your rather blind excuse of Israel is what is hyperbolic. The criticism of Israel isn't just coming from a few people. It's coming from all over the world.

[Behind the Aegis]

34. Reading is fundamental.

I didn't call you stupid. And for someone so worried about morality and adult-behavior, you cast your's aside quickly.

"Ask any Arab Israeli if he has the same property rights as his Jewish neighbors." LOL! That again? What next, Jew-only roads?

"The criticism of Israel isn't just coming from a few people. It's coming from all over the world." And that makes it infallible. :eyes:

[barbtries]

128. "What next, Jew-only roads?"

according to the article in the OP, they already have the roads "open only to the settlers."

[Behind the Aegis]

134. Try again. It is not hard.

Again, reading is fundamental.

[barbtries]

143. how do you read a video?

your attitude sucks.

[Behind the Aegis]

144. Your comprehension sucks.

"READ" the posts, not the video. :eyes:

[DRex]

29. Out of curiosity...

"This demonstrates your lack of knowledge of Israel and her laws."

What laws, specifically, were you referring to here?

[Behind the Aegis]

37. The ones where the other poster pretends non-Jews don't have the same rights.

The only one that is really all that different is RoR.

[DRex]

44. Here, as above and below, you seem to skirt the question.

Your nebulous, fact-free responses, as well as your disrespectful tone to other posters, do nothing to back up your opinions: opinions for which you have as of yet provided no factual reinforcement. In fact, you provide an example, the denial of right of return for Palestinians, to seemingly support a conflicting view from your own.

I wanted to know the facts you claim to base your argument upon for the sake of obtaining a balanced point of view, but now what I want to know is this: Is there any reason that your opinions are valid arguments, but the statements of fact and concern from other posters make them "anti-Israel propagandists?" Or are your arguments purely emotional?

I don't want to insult you, I just think that you would do better to back up your claims and respect the differing perspectives of others. Mine was a genuine question, and I am disappointed in the non-answer I received.

[Behind the Aegis]

75. You want an honest answer then ask me an honest question.

"In fact, you provide an example, the denial of right of return for Palestinians, to seemingly support a conflicting view from your own." Misrepresenting what I say is not a good first step in getting a respectful response.

"Is there any reason that your opinions are valid arguments" I never claimed any such thing. I simply said sometimes an opinion is just as useful and expends less time, especially on those who don't really care about the truth or honesty as it relates to the situation or, especially Israel.

[DRex]

82. How did I misrepresent what you said?

See, you say that, and then do not clarify your statement. If it is my failure in understanding your comment, then by all means, correct me. Don't just say that I am misrepresenting and end it there. My actual 'first step' was asking you an honest question, a question of clarification, and your curt reply contained no answer. Very Palinesque.

[Behind the Aegis]

91. Your posts are schizophrenic,

You claim you want to have an honest discussion then sabotage it with ad hominems {"Very Palinesque"}.

I was clear in where you misrepresented what I said. I did it by quoting what you said. Since it was clear enough for you, try this:

You claimed I said: "In fact, you provide an example, the denial of right of return for Palestinians, to seemingly support a conflicting view from your own."

What I actually said was: "The only one that is really all that different is RoR."

You said: "What laws, specifically, were you referring to here?"

I gave example of the only law, that I could think of, where there was a difference. It was based on the idiotic assertion: "There cannot, by definition, ever be democracy and universal suffrage in Israel."

[DRex]

101. You still never answered the question,

which, I can assure you, was an honest one. I wanted to know what you were talking about, whether you could back up your claims. But you gave a completely different answer from the one the question required.

An argument against your perspective, however conspicuously small, remains an argument against, not in favour of, your perspective. I don't see how bringing up ROR is supposed to support anything other than a conflicting perspective from your own, and I don't see ROR as a small point. It's a big deal.

I asked what laws you were referring to, specifically. What I definitely did not ask was what laws you were not referring to, specifically. See my point?

Palinesque is actually a compliment. It is a real skill to be able to speak so many words without saying much of anything at all. She probably shares most of your views on Israel as well, although I suspect for altogether different reasons.

[trungpa ricochet]

103. Horace is mute

The oracle is in a bad mood now. He has been overwhelmed with documentation and surrounded by too many different points of view. After this piece in today's Washington Post, I understand why he is sulking in his tent. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012602481.html?wprss=rss_print

[Behind the Aegis]

106. I did answer the question.

It's not my fault you failed to grasp the answer.

[Bryan Sacks]

65. So you are OK with denying Palestinians access to roads?

You spew such fucking garbage. Do some reading yourself. You can start here:

http://www.counterpunch.org/aloni01082007.html

That's a former Israeli Education Minister talking. Want to dismiss her as another lying anti-semite?

By law, Palestinians are not allowed on the roads. That's not in dispute. But by enforcement, it sounds like it may be even worse than that.

[Behind the Aegis]

73. LOL! Counterpunch? I guess I will start posting from INN, it's about the same.

Liar? Yes. Anti-Semite? I have no idea what her other opinions or statement on Jews are. Just a little help for one who can't absorb the information; denying Palestinians access is not the same as "Jew-only." I know, a difficult concept for a propagandist, but, there it is. Secondly, it is in the occupied territories, not Israel proper. So, the only garbage spewed here is by yet one more notorious anti-Israel propagandist.

[Yes We Did]

93. Yes....

Cuz everyone who doesn't kiss Israel's ass is a propagandist... Sorry, that don't fly. You keep at it though.

[Bryan Sacks]

115. She claimed a soldier told her "Jews Only". So she's a liar?

How the FUCK would you know? And do you understand the difference between law as it's written and as it's enforced? I don't know if the story is true. But YOU sure as hell don't know it's a lie.

I never said denying Palestinians access was the same thing as "Jews Only". YOU were the one who seemed intent on defending Israel against the latter charge, as if denying Palestinians access is OK! Let's be clear: denying Palestinians the use of roads IN OCCUPIED TERRITORY is flatly unjustifiable. What gives Israel the right to deny ANYONE ANYTHING in the occupied territories?

You're so fucking clouded you can't even see a point of basic justice any longer, if you ever could.

[Behind the Aegis]

118. How the FUCK would YOU know?

"And do you understand the difference between law as it's written and as it's enforced?" Do you? YOu seem not to grasp that concept.

"I never said denying Palestinians access was the same thing as "Jews Only"." I didn't say you did.

"denying Palestinians the use of roads IN OCCUPIED TERRITORY is flatly unjustifiable. What gives Israel the right to deny ANYONE ANYTHING in the occupied territories?" In your opinion.

"You're so fucking clouded you can't even see a point of basic justice any longer, if you ever could." And you are so fucking clouded you make things up that aren't there to make your argument.

[Bryan Sacks]

130. Complete waste of time discussing this with you. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

133. Finally! We agree on something!

[BeliQueen]

30. Actually that's not true

As a person who is trying to understand how could the the Israeli state have come this far: from a haven for Jews from the horrors of another Holocaust to a place where the same early tactics used by Germany to sequester Jews from the general population are implemented daily on Palestinians; to me your opinion matters little.

You claim great knowledge of Israeli law and historical context, but you present neither in your post.

If you could include that in your reply, that will be more helpful than the glib responses you have given so far.

Thanks.

[Behind the Aegis]

35. Because you say so?

Puh-leaze. You are as interested in facts about Israel as the other poster; meaning, not at all. I don't waste valuable educational time with anti-Israel propagandists like yourself. Trust me, there is nothing glib in my response.

[NorCalDem]

43. Beign anti-Israel does not require ANY propaganda these days....

all one must do is look at their casualty list...

[Behind the Aegis]

74. A casualty list was never need for many of the haters here.

[Idealism]

78. "Haters," eh? Isn't that what Sarah Palin calls those she dislikes, too?

Sure you want to be lumped with her ilk?

[Behind the Aegis]

87. A weak ad hom? That's the best you got?

[Idealism]

102. Yet more one-liners from the font of wisdom

[Behind the Aegis]

105. Echo...echo...echo

[trungpa ricochet]

120. The Oracle casts a few shadows

Horace is a little ironic. The quote about force without wisdom is apparently meant as a beacon to others. However if it were a shoe, it would fit Israel pretty well. Ad hominem attacks seem to be what bug Horace most, yet he dishes them out with aplomb. :dilemma:

[Behind the Aegis]

123. Such a sad little poster you are.

Can't take on the the original, so, like a bully, you spread rumors. Though, your kind is known for it.

[trungpa ricochet]

129. You are not very original, Horace

"Bully" is another shoe you might try on for size.:think:

[Behind the Aegis]

135. I know your not (an) original.

There are plenty of titles you could take on, as well. "Victim" seems to be your favorite.

[trungpa ricochet]

146. You've already cornered the role of victim, Horace

The mask fits like your shoes do.

[Behind the Aegis]

147. And your mask? When will it slip?

And who said the dead never rise.

[trungpa ricochet]

150. Rally all your supporters on DU, Horace!

Don't be paranoid, Horace. Ask for a show of hands.:crazy:

[Behind the Aegis]

151. I don't need allies to talk to a propagandist with delusions of adequacy.

[trungpa ricochet]

153. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Signing off now. Buhbye.:puke:

[Behind the Aegis]

154. There is a G-d! Who knew?!

[Yes We Did]

83. That is uncalled for.

If you can't have a dialogue without personal attacks, perhaps you should go elsewhere.

[Behind the Aegis]

88. Perhaps you should ignore posts that offend your delicate sensibilities.

[Yes We Did]

92. Perhaps you should stop acting like an asshole!

[Behind the Aegis]

108. This coming from **you**?! Snort!

:rofl:

[ooglymoogly]

28. Perfect rebuttal to luddite stupidity. nt

[krister]

62. You think that forming a state based on religion or ancestry is justified? n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

77. As justifiable as any other reason.

[trungpa ricochet]

86. Only in the Medieval Period

Theocracy does not belong in the contemporary world. The concept is archaic and conceptually weak. It is unsustainable without and endless supply of props and propaganda. A democratic society can never be defined or sustained by religion or family relations.

[Behind the Aegis]

89. Israel is not a theocracy.

[trungpa ricochet]

98. That's why it calls itself The Jewish State

So maybe then it's a.... big family?

[Behind the Aegis]

107. That's your "proof" it is a theocracy?

Get thee to a dictionary..stat!

[krister]

104. Oh, I see.

It's acceptable for some groups to discriminate but it's wrong for others to discriminate against them.

We hear you loud and clear.

[Behind the Aegis]

111. No, dear, that is the echo between your ears you hear.

Then again, you are the type of poster if you don't like the answer, you make up your own conclusion; as you have done here. I hear you loud and clear.

[krister]

112. Sorry..

...but I'm not the one condoning the exclusion of other people based on race or religion.

[Behind the Aegis]

117. Nor am I. Yet, you falsely reached that conclusion thru faulty reasoning.

[krister]

119. You said that forming a state based on religion or ancestry was as justifiable as any other reason.

I'm afraid that you aren't fooling anyone.

[Behind the Aegis]

122. And I afraid you aren't capable of rational thought., But, here we are.

[krister]

145. Coming from someone like you

that doesn't bother me at all. I'll take it as a compliment in this case.

Let us know when you have a comment worth reading.

[Behind the Aegis]

148. Funny, I was thinking the same.

Then again, anti-Israel propagandists (and others) do hate the truth.

[krister]

149. They have that in common

with pro-Israel propagandists like you.

[Behind the Aegis]

152. Says the projectionist.

Poor little thing, you are. So, who are you really?

[krister]

155. Take the side that shares your religion. How noble of you.

I am Krister.

[Behind the Aegis]

156. Sure you are.

Take the side of the ones because you hate the others. How noble of you. :eyes:

[krister]

157. Says the projectionist.

How clever of you.

Who do I hate, pray tell?

[Behind the Aegis]

158. Aren't you just clever? NOT.

"Who do I hate, pray tell?"

I think you have the part figured out all on your own, which is saying something.

[krister]

159. Accuse others of bigotry

to hide your own.

It's not working well at all. Hate to break it to you.

[Behind the Aegis]

160. I am not hiding bigotry, because I don't harbor it.

Can you say the same? I sincerely doubt it.

[krister]

161. Your doubt is meritless

Keep pulling shit out of your ass.

[DUlover2909]

121. What is your take on the information provided in this youtube video?

I see alot of naysaying from you and I expected to see you here on this thread. I have no problem with any of your posts here in response to what conclusions others may have made. But what do you think of this 60 Minutes piece? They paint an ugly picture of the occupation. Is the reporting flawed? Do they seem to be biased in favor of the Palestinians? What can you say that refutes the information presented in this video? Are there videos out there that provide a counterveiling point of view? I have not seen them, and since I can't travel to Israel myself I depend on the media to provide information about the situation in Israel. Can you educate me so that I can understand the Israeli's position more thoroughly?

[Behind the Aegis]

124. Oh another "joker" in the deck.

Make up the persona of the poster, then feign understanding.

Do you really want answers to your questions or are you like the other posters and already have your answers for me? Do you really care about Israel's position? Hell, why asking, do you even care about the Palestinians' positions?

[DUlover2909]

127. No absolutely not. I would really like to hear your take on this 60 Minutes video.

I have no intention of defending this video. I care deeply about the Israeli position and I care deeply about the Palestinians. I care deeply about victims of war and terrorism. Being less educated however, I invite you to answer the questions that I asked, rather than engage in a semantic argument. I am very eager to hear from someone with more knowledge of the subject so that I may become enlightened. If you are not more knowledgeable than I am, then I apologize.

[Turborama]

132. Can you hear the crickets?

[Behind the Aegis]

136. Those must be in your mind. AT least something is making noise there...

...beside the breeze.

[Turborama]

137. "A weak ad hom? That's the best you got?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=264601&mesg_id=265042">Source

[Behind the Aegis]

139. Seems to be all you can comprehend.

[Turborama]

140. Instead of puerile ad hom after ad hom, what about answering DUlover2909's questions?

[Behind the Aegis]

141. Why don't you get a new hobby? Maybe eat some fish while you are at it.

[Turborama]

142. LOL, good one.

Edit, to make sure you knew it was :sarcasm:

[Behind the Aegis]

138. Isn't this you?

I don't remember ever pledging allegiance to the Israeli flag.
I have no allegiance to that nation. I see a nation in Israel oppressing poor people. I see unrestrained hostility against people that can not feed or defend themselves.

The Israelis broke the ceasefire to begin with. The Israeli government did not want a renewed ceasefire. We know this because Olmert ordered Shrub to vote against the US negotiated ceasefire resolution in the UN. The IDF uses Palestinian children as human shields. They purposely destroy UN and Red Cross facilities, vehicles, and personnel. They employ white phosphorous in military operations. They are guilty of warcrimes of even greater magnitude than is Hamas.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=251163&mesg_id=251167

Sorry, I call bullshit on your "sincerity."

[DUlover2909]

162. You know it is. I know it's a rhetorical question. It's all you do: rhetoric.

What do you have to offer the dialogue going on here about this serious issue? All I see from you is argument and contradiction.

Who were you quoting when you typed sincerity inside quotation marks? Annoying isn't it?

You are sorry. I agree. Calling "bullshit" is a crude way of calling someone a liar. I never lied about anything I posted. I can't say for certain that you lied in any of your responses because I don't know whether you really believed what you wrote or not. But I never slandered you. It seems to me that you are out of ammo when you resort to silly tactics like accusing me of being a liar instead of answering the questions. That's what the freepers do. They have a website you might enjoy.

[proud progressive]

57. you can add the u.s.a. to that collapse

[Mosby]

165. Your aware that other countries have state religions?

Just like GB, Norway and Denmark, Israel has an official state religion but a secular legal system that protects the rights of ethnic and religious minorities.

[Joanne98]

6. I watched that. It's a MUST SEE!

[1776Forever]

7. I had heard about some of this but when I saw how evasive it had become I was amazed!

This is just not right - For instance say - A bunch of us here in the United States looked toward Canada and said - Hm - I think I will build a house just over the boarder - they won't do anything about it - then I build a road to go to my home and more people came up and did the same thing. Would you think Canada wouldn't do anything and just say - Come on over? I think not!

[Raineyb]

113. Judging by the vociferous excuse making for Israel it would appear

that such a response is exactly what they expect.

It is unfortunately, an attitude which often permeates our country's foreign policy. I'm not sure I expect that to change anytime soon.

Regards

[yellowwood]

8. CBS Was Brave to Tell the Truth

CBS is going to take a lot of flak for telling the truth. Many people think that criticizing Israel is the same as being anti-semetic. They don't know that Arabs are Semetic, too.

[Greenheron]

9. This needs a diaper as well

"The idea that political leaders are influenced for malign purposes by Jews is at the heart of modern anti-Semitism. It is an alarming but increasingly familiar notion that by swapping "Zionist" for "Jewish" - i.e. that the then Prime Minister was surrounded by a "Zionist cabal" - Dalyell's comment can be rendered apparently "bigotry-free." This is typical of an anti-Semitic discourse by which the most common ideas, themes and images from the history of anti-Semitism have re-emerged in recent years, cloaked in an anti-Israel or anti-Zionist wrapping".

[trungpa ricochet]

14. False analogy

Trying to blur the definition of Judaism by equating it with Zionism is a rather weak tactic. There are plenty of Jews who disagree with the excesses of Israeli policies. There are plenty of Jews, for that matter, who think that the idea of the State of Israel is anathema to the true meaning of what it is to be a Jew. Zionism will fail of its own accord.

[moto8dog]

17. What excessive policies?

"There are plenty of Jews who disagree with the excesses of Israeli policies." Oh please name me one! You present Arab opinions so who would believe you. What kind of reverse mind game are you attempting on this forum?
Please tell me.
1. Who has been lobbing rockets into Israel for well over 3 months now?

2. Why didn't the Palistinians put a stop to the rockets being fired into Israel?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NorCalDem]

42. Trunga, i like the way you think regarding Israel and their horrific

policies towards Palestinians and Arab's in general. Welcome to DU, i hope you stay a long time!

[trungpa ricochet]

81. Thank you

Your sentiments are appreciated. While we share views regarding this terrible situation, I don't mind discussing it with other people who may disagree. If people disagree and wish to convince me of their positions, I require actual facts and documentation in order for that to happen. People who introduce their contrasting points of view with nuggets like"that's a load of crap","that needs a diaper", etc. and then dismiss what I say as ignorant and wrong do nothing to change my mind or those of other visitors to this forum. And simply declaring that anyone who criticises Israel is antisemitic does not work. That tactic is what the Likudniks have used for years to get away with their land grabs and concentration camps.

[Behind the Aegis]

90. Try not using propaganda if you want an honest discussion or you get what you throw out.

[trungpa ricochet]

95. As you say, Horace...

LOL

[Behind the Aegis]

109. So, "clever" (and I use that term loosely) ad homs is all you got?

Well that and your precious propaganda.

[trungpa ricochet]

96. More propaganda written by an antisemite in an antisemitic newspaper

Here, Horace: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012602481.html?wprss=rss_print&sid=ST2009012602493&s_pos=

:puke:

[Behind the Aegis]

110. Your posts are just pathetic.

For someone so worried about being called an anti-semite, you sure like to fling the charge around (like a typical propagandist).

[NorCalDem]

41. Israel is committing warcrimes in Gaza daily at this point...

Welcome to DU, enjoy your short stay...

[Raineyb]

114. It's only a war crime if the side we don't like does it

:sarcasm:

[Behind the Aegis]

125. You got that point correct, at least for DU.

[edc]

54. Useful

Hamas is rife with useful fools. If those fools weren't launching rockets into Israel, Mossad would have to do it.

[DUlover2909]

163. How do we know Mossad does not launch the rockets?

Intelligence services have been known to do worse. How much money would it take to hire a person in Gaza to fire a rocket? They are starving to death because of the blockade. I don't think it would take much money (maybe the cost of a burger and fries) out of the IDF budget to orchestrate a weak attack to create a pretext for retaliation. I wouldn't put it past them based on recent events.

STFU in advance to Mr. Contrarian that will undoubtably chime in to inform me that I am a "propogandist" and "empty between the ears" or some other idiotic inconsequential nonsense.

Welcome to DU edc! :D

[Turborama]

85. RE: "There are plenty of Jews who disagree with the excesses of Israeli policies."

Here's just a few to be going on with...

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/testimonies_group_e.asp">Israeli soldiers talk about the occupied territories

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/UserFiles/File//Shovrim_Shtika_English_Int.pdf">Soldiers' Testimonies from Hebron

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/war_on_gaza/2009/01/20091109519821785.html">Israel's 'other voices' go unheard

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/11/gaza-israel-letter-british-jews">Leading British Jews call on Israel to halt 'horror' of Gaza

[Turborama]

94. Israeli activists in Tel Aviv demonstrating against the war

A picture is worth a thousand words...

[NoSheep]

71. You are absolutely correct. Many Jewish people I know in the US are disgusted with the

actions of the Zionists. The same way they are disgusted by the actions of any who oppress others. I know of not one person of Jewish heritage who doesn't feel there is a huge injustice going on in Israel against the less powerful. Some of the less powerful are themselves Jews who disagree with the policies that continue to divide the region.

[krister]

61. Tell that to these folks.

http://www.nkusa.org

[Yes We Did]

84. I love you the word "anti-semetic" are thrown around so easily.

Disagreeing with a political policy does not mean you want the people who live in the country to be killed.

It's disgusting that it is played that way.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DUlover2909]

11. Wow, they occupy that family's house.

I wonder how that would play out here.

[knightmaar]

26. It DID play out in the United States

Something about a revolution and a declaration of indepedence.

I'm not totally up on your history, but there was something about a king forcing people to quarter soldiers or something like that. I'm sure you can find about it from wiki.

[1monster]

40. Amendment II in the Bill of Rights:

Amendment III

No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

[DUlover2909]

76. Yeah I knew about our Constitution.

I was just imagining them doing it anyway and people here just shooting the soldiers.

[Caretha]

60. Bingo!

Perfect analogy. Wish I had a prize to give you. Unfortunately there are some here on DU, and some have been here many years, who claim to be democrats, but the moment a mirror is held up to them, they sound just like the right-wing kool aide drinkers, they are fuckin' religious fanatics. They disgust me as much as Bush.

Edit for post spell check. I hate to misspell

[Grinchie]

38. If it were Bush's watch, they give you a National Security Letter.

And it would be your responsibility to cover up for them.

[Aloha Spirit]

13. The mayor--she says something like "the stubborn inherit the earth" ... I think

that shows how the settlements will fail.
Yes, stubborn people achieve many things, but in this case it shows she will never be interested in anyone's rights except for her own. Not even her children's rights, which suffer from an unending conflict.

[cooolandrew]

15. Wow, if no-one had ever written bibles we'd be better off. Worship the true god spaghetti monster.>

His noodleness only wishes folk to live long and prosper through peace. Amen to his disciple Richard Dawkins.

[trungpa ricochet]

16. Amen to that, Oh spicey one.

[go west young man]

31. Ditto! Dawkin's rocks!

It's good to see CBS actually reporting what's really going on there. Most of America has no idea that our tax dollars are funding this madness. And Israel's current use of white phosphorous is doing them no favors either. The Israeli leadership wants to reclaim the "holy" lands but they are definitely not doing the work of Jesus these days. Jesus must be rolling over in his grave. Or his cloud, or wherever he's supposed to have ascended to.

[Moostache]

33. Peace be upon him...

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trungpa ricochet]

24. Bienvenidos a DU

Tus palabras no son hueras, amigo.:fistbump:

[slipslidingaway]

20. CBS Feedback Form - Tell us what you think!

http://www.cbs.com/info/user_services/fb_global_form.php

[stephinrome]

21. Wow! I can't believe this was shown on national TV

Hurray for CBS.

Are things changing in the U.S. with regards the media's portrayal of Israel/Palestine?

Wasn't CBS the one to air the interview with the Norwegian doctor during the assault on Gaza?

Are there other signs of cracks in the media?

[stephinrome]

22. If you want to contact 60 Minutes

EMAIL: [e-mail]

PHONE: [phone]

I'll be calling and sending an email to thank them for this report!

[madrchsod]

32. just another day in Canaan

the names have changed over the centuries but the blood is still red

[Grinchie]

36. Commendable reporting by 60 Minutes. Maybe the media will grow a pair of eyes

I believe that this report alone puts the Israeli situation into context, yet is ignores all the other main issues that infuriate the people who have researched the U.S. Israel relationship since 1967.

The aerial footage of the shining Citadels built in the west bank by the Israeli's need closer scrutiny. If one thinks about it, these settlement were built with our tax dollars, along with building up the military that uses techniques lifted almost directly from fascist regimes. There are dozens of U.N. Sanctions against the Israeli's that have never been acted upon, and they continue to thumb their nose at them.

We cannot afford to support a mini nuclear power that is so aggressive and willing to use military force at the drop of a pin.

I will not pay for this crap anymore! Enough!

No Justice, No Peace. Time to cut these mad dogs loose and them them tear each other apart.

I am not Pro Palestine or Anti-Israel. I am pro-freedom and cooperation. There comes a time when one has to cut their losses and let the natural order of thing regain balance. At this point, the U.S. Meddling in the Israeli economy, i.e. free handouts of Money, weponry, training, have skewed the democracy into a runaway bonfire. Moving toward a fascist Corporatocracy much like we see happeneing here in the United States. Nobody is accountable, and the leaders promote disruptive behavior in their citizens.

[Bushknew]

39. What if someone decided they were going to occupy your house, what would you do?

What if someone decided that for historical reasons, they were
going to allow someone else to occupy your house?

You don’t have guns or the support of the world community.

They do.

If you don’t resist, they don’t kill you and your family but they force themselves into your house and limit your access to water and other essentials. Gradually, they begin to occupy more & more space in your house.

Would you leave your house or fight for it?

[NorCalDem]

45. Perfect description of Israel's history IMO...

I know personally, i'd be lobbing RPG's JUST LIKE THE PALESTINIANS TOO!!!!

[Bushknew]

69. Thank you : - )

[woodone]

49. I am new so be gentle!

 My first post here but I just can not be silent anymore.There
seem to be quite a few people who are knowledgeable.Iwas made
aware of an event that happened in the 1967 israeli war wiyh
egypt.I will not go into detail because I want people here to
look up the U.S.S.Liberty.The liberty was a signal
ship,NSA,that intercepted messages from israeli commanders on
the ground in the sanai.Americans were killed on this ship by
israeli planes that tried to sink the liberty.So if anyone
wants to defend this action that killed americans,well,it
exposes who you really are.
LOOK UP THE U.S.S. LIBERTY

[Fire1]

58. Welcome to DU, woodone! Good post, btw.

[Bushknew]

68. I won't defend it & welcome to DU

[trungpa ricochet]

79. Good metaphor

Not necessarily only historical reasons, but theological/political ones too.

[Seldona]

80. The first time? Capitulate.

The second? Be ready. Hypothetically of course.

[DeSwiss]

46. K&R

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." - Nietzsche

[Politicalboi]

47. Crazy is as crazy does

The Israeli government is so Bush like. Even their armies are so US. Invading and causing terror to the weak. That is our specialty.

[subsuelo]

48. "Apartheid is already in place"

Yep

[katty]

51. yes, it is

[katty]

50. saw this 60 minutes - a revealing report

[Martin Eden]

52. Evicting the settlers is unlikely , but what about cutting them loose?

It seems obvious that the government of Israel -- even if it wanted to -- can not evict the settlers from the West Bank. The pitched battle that went on when only 9 families were evicted a few years ago would be multiplied exponentially if the attempt was made to evict tens of thousands.

One approach towards a 2-state solution I didn't see in the video would be for Israel to define its boundaries as within the wall it is building, then any settlers outside those boundaries are given some time (possibly a year or more) to move back within Israel's borders if they want to retain Israeli citizenship and have the protection of the national security forces. If they refuse to move, they would in effect become citizens of the Palestinian state, becoming a distinct minority therein and subject to the laws of the Palestinian government.

[Mind_your_head]

53. I don't understand why Israelis aren't willing to live peacefully with Palestinians?

From what I understand (which is 'limited')....Palestinians offered to share their land with Israelis. Once that opening was given, Israelis WANTED IT ALL!

Now, my 'understanding' may be wrong, but that's what I have 'learned'.

Palestinians are willing for a two-state solution. Israelis' are a "no-go" for a two-state compromise/solution.

Is that a somewhat accurate summary or not?

[krister]

64. In this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9OIqy6md9w

Rabbi Weiss describes a time before 1948 when his fellow rabbi lived in the city of Jerusalem and their Muslim neighbors would babysit his children.

Things were very different before some people decided that a state should be formed based on (incorrectly interpreted) Jewish prophecy and then that state was hijacked by power-hungry, corrupt politicians.

[Turborama]

100. Thanks a lot for that vid, very interesting! n/t

[gristy]

55. self-delete - wrong thread

[EFerrari]

56. I don't know when I've seen anything so deeply saddening.

When I decided to study Israel, I had two babies. One on my lap, one at my side. I read out loud to them. We learned words and holidays and important dates together. So much promise. I could never do that today.

[mckara]

59. I Hate Israeli Nazis!

n/t

[ro1942]

63. hats off to CBS

i'll bet they are getting a lot of calls from their corp. sponsors. i just can't believe they did it, religion just might destroy the world before pollution.

[Hulk]

67. Be careful or this site will ban you for your "hateful message"...

If you are too overt with your opinion about what is going on, DU will bring out it's "hate patrol" and you will disappear.

[mckara]

99. My Message is a Parody from the Blues Brothers

"I hate Illinois nazis."

Thanks for your opinion though.

:think:

[Behind the Aegis]

126. They haven't banned you...

..and you admit what the fuck you are!

"I am pro-Palestinian any more....and anti-Jew." source

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Poll_Blind]

70. The settlers don't feel the need to be covert about it: God gave them all that land.

It's always alarming to see the atrocities a society will commit when they think this way.

PB

[slay]

72. This really is a must see

I missed it this sunday - thanks for posting it.

[democracy1st]

97. K & R

[Mari333]

116. good for CBS!! nt and recommend

[coreyswhite]

131. A song of hope and courage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-5nCIZ6MA

[Political_Junkie]

164. Too late to recommend,

but I can kick it. I'm really surprised to see this was shown on American t.v., though I noticed that it made the Israeli government look like it was somewhat innocent. Still it's good to get some information to American audiences as to the problem of the settlers, which up to know have been made out to be the victims in the msm.