Climate Change in Action (Aussie fires)

[Number23]

Run time: 02:02 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRaugBYDY0Q   Posted on YouTube: February 08, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: February 08, 2009 By DU Member: Number23 Views on DU: 1771

 
There are killer floods, killer fires and killer heat/drought in three different areas of Australia occurring simultaneously.

The Northern Hemisphere is facing unprecedented cold while the Southern Hemisphere burns. Odd times...

[SlicerDicer-]

1. get off the climate change nonsense

This was directly caused due to not back burning the bush... It was banned in Australia and thus massive wildfires. Check the underbrush in the pictures and its clear what the problem was arson or not.

Do some research before you spout such rubbish. This is vile in every form of vile to blame it on climate change. Fix the actual problem instead of saying OMG!! Climate Change.

But I expect no less sadly. Blame game is far easier than action is it not? I mean who really is willing to make the sacrifices needed to please the climate gods.



Go ahead and try to tell any rational human being that was not ready to burn. That is a TON OF FUEL! I say lets stop clearing all burnable materials in California and see what happens! It will be a fun experiment and not to mention get rid of some of the excess houses that are empty/foreclosed. As I guarantee it would burn that shit to the ground.

[ConcernedCanuk]

2. "climate change nonsense" ?? - I'm 58 - It ain't no nonsense, And - temps were over 100 degrees

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115 I read somewhere

that ain't "normal"

Don't think that we can do all our polluting, dropping bombs and spreading pollutants all over the world without a reaction . .

We got climate change alright - and not for the better

I've been a camper since my childhood - knew the seasons and their temperament -

Things started getting wacky 5 - 10 years ago

weird temperatures, ice storms - stuff not normal up here -

Nothing phony about climate change - it is here - now we have to deal with it

"Do some research before you spout such rubbish"

indeed - try it . . .

[SlicerDicer-]

6. Some inconvienent factoids

1) Records do not go back far enough to make a reasonable judgment. Europe is another matter.
2) It was arson so nothing to do with "climate change there"
3) Define normal when records do not go back far enough to make a judgment.
4) I have yet to see substantial proof. There is still bickering about what caused Medieval Warm Period, Little Ice Age. Till these are solved I will remain on the sideline of what caused warming then.
5) Camping woo that makes expert! You know all about smokey the bear then and "only you can prevent forest fires" yep and if you let a stray spark.. Now imagine some asshole doing it on purpose
6) Yep just as the sun started acting "wacky" check out the projections for solar cycle 24 and how they have morphed. And yet still no 24
7) Yep enjoy since the 1950's shit has been stagnant but now going back to more "normal" chaotic weather that was seen that caused things like the dust bowl. I got pictures to show shit that would make you cringe of what happened here today. Not NORMAL unless it was the 1930's

So see! There is rational

[iconicgnom]

12. wow! you sure do express your anti-climate-change rant emotionally.

But you're speaking against an enormous body of heavily documented research demonstrating how different atmospheric makeups are associated with differing geophysical/ecological ages, and so on, and how certain elements can serve as "triggers".

You're in effect denying that the exponential growth of human business on the planet could *very quickly* have an effect. True, we don't and can't have empirical proof of that premise until it occurs. Lacking such proof, you conclude that the premise is a "myth". The next step is for you to concoct ulterior motives, to explain the "myth", and for you to conclude that the issue is "political", not "real".

However, the exponential growth of human business on this planet is a reality. Our technology, our ability to exploit the world's raw materials, has already reached a point where we must necessarily recognize that we control the planet. Just as we have the moral obligation to do everything that we can that the planet isn't destroyed in a nuclear war (remember that commonly understood restraint?), so we have a moral obligation to ensure that the planet isn't destroyed by negligence. Or by sheer indifference mixed with laziness and greed, and a corresponding myopic view that "regulation = bad".

[Turborama]

13. "Records do not go back far enough to make a reasonable judgment" Google "ice core samples"

In fact, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&q=ice+core+samples+&btnG=Search">I've done it for you. While you're at it, check out http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&q=paleoclimatology&btnG=Search">paleoclimatology too, you'll be sure to find some very interesting FACTS.

"Europe is another matter."

In what respect?

Do some research before coming back. It is both infantile and ignorant to deny climate change without knowing what the fuck you're talking about.

[SlicerDicer-]

21. Ice core samples only give for the poles and general ideas

However they do not give the picture of what happened in Australia exactly. Thus your argument is invalid.. In terms of what I am speaking of.

In terms of Europe what do I mean? Umm how about that records go back really far? They go back to what? the dark ages? You are capable of real reconstruction there of what happened and how heatwaves and cold snaps occurred.

[Turborama]

22. Look, are you an anthropogenic climate change sceptic or not?

If yes, then my arguments still stand in the greater scheme of things.

If no, good.

[SlicerDicer-]

23. I am a anthropogenic global warming skeptic (please read what all I wrote)

However I do believe in climate change. Hard to explain but there it is. I do believe our climate is changing and we may have a small percentile of influence in it but the large portion of it is very large forces at work. These forces are what drove many different climate changes throughout history as such you have many minimums and maximums that were caused not by "anthropogenic" effects. However on the same note I do agree in "anthropogenic" rainfall modification via forest destruction as that is grounded in fact. As such you can look at mount Kilimanjaro or Amazon and many other places around the world. Hell even large dams that block water have a anthropogenic effect of rainfall modification as seen in Australia. This is quite common research and I do find it to be credible.

However the entire globe warming due to human activity is hard for me to buy at the present time. This does not mean however if there is further evidence that comes out to prove it I wont start to understand. But as stated above, I want to know the reasons behind the warmings and coolings of the past before I will believe that we are just not in the current "holocene" maximum. And furthermore what is to say we are not rushing violently to the end of the holocene? There is substantial evidence that the holocene has lasted 2000 years longer than any previous interglacial.

Yes I do understand the problems we face however I take a real long hard look at things and this is what I see. I look at scientists and see what they are saying and if there is any doubt in their thought. I instantly do a default to questions and wait for fact based. I know that no theory is solid even gravity is not a solid "fact" even though we all feel it however there is not enough evidence to prove to me worldwide warming thats all I am merely saying.

And if you look through what I have written previously in posts. I do believe that many of the things that cause the so called "anthropogenic effects" cause far larger dangers to humans in health. And by dealing with them for health reasons and preservation of our health and not permanently damaging our DNA. If by some token it is the cause of warming well it will sort itself out in the end as both goals are mutually exclusive of getting rid of pollutants and particulates that are harmful.

[Turborama]

24. You make interesting observations...

..and are coming across as more objective than it 1st appeared. I think we can have a reasoned debate.

With regards to 'evidence', I have a documentary I want to share with you and will be very interested to hear your thoughts, if you can spare the time to watch it...

Look out for a new thread called "BBC Horizon: Global Dimming".

[SlicerDicer-]

25. I do not know if this is a observation or partially related too

9/11 when the planes were all out of the sky and the dimming that was reversed caused a spike in temperatures. Is this what you are speaking of?

And of course I watch pretty much any documentary. I even have amongst my things Inconvenient Truth in HD :) Looks awesome that way.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2058273530743771382

Would this be the one?


And in all fairness given my ways of looking at things.. It just made my blood boil to see the blame go the way it did. Also take a gander at my post below in regards to "sorry mate not trolling" I might sound a bit hot tempered about it but if its reasonable I will have a decent discussion.. Many things I say may seem to contradict eachother to a degree. They might but I look at all the facts at hand

Edit: Heh I just clicked on your link below in your sig. Thats a whole hornets nest there that I could open. But part of that is what has driven me to learn many ways of sustainable agriculture... I do believe our energy prospects are bleak if we continue down the same path. I talked about interlinked systems of food distribution years ago.. people always threw me in the y2k category and said I should have a bunker for saying that one day.. one day soon.. if you dont wish to be poisoned by the food supply you will be required to grow your own. Sad indeed. Likely that information is archived somewhere on the net under my same handle.. without the - :) as I guess somebody here took the name SlicerDicer.

[Turborama]

26. That's the one

I was busy preparing the post I made when you posted it. I thoroughly recommend getting the torrent from the link I gave, as the picture and sound quality is much better...

[Butch350]

17. Listen. From a meteological point of view...

If temperatures vary from the based normals no matter how far the records go back and they don't trend with the
normals - then common sense only will tell you there is a climate change within a specific time line.

The media is now blaming terrorists for the Aussie fires. Not spontaneous combustion nor Drew Barrymore.

[Saynt]

15. I really don't want to agree with the troll but...

... being from Australia... many of the reports here are that a lot of those fires were deliberately lit and after some were contained a few disgusting excuses for humans went back to relight them.

I certainly do understand the effects of climate change and am 100% on your side but would be quick to point out that a) unless prolonged slightly-higher-than-average temps cause madness, they were not the cause of idiot arsonists and b) FNQ (far north Queensland) is flooded pretty much every year or two like clockwork.

2 points about the video though...

1. It's "Maryvale" (marysvale )
2. Australia doesn't have provinces, we have states.

[Number23]

18. Thanks, Saynt.

Yes, it is been reported that the fires were deliberately set in some areas. Whoever is found to have started these should be placed UNDER the jail.

But folks are saying that the heat was so severe from the fires that trees and even many houses literally exploded. The extreme heat and drought combined with high winds that had already settled over much of Australia has been listed by the CFA and the government as a contributing factor in these horrible fires.

Yes, some prick added to the misery. But the stage was already so ripe for something like this to happen. My heart goes out to everyone impacted in any way.

P.S. Sorry about the inaccuracies in the video. I didn't each catch where they called the states here provinces. You would have thought that an organization as auspicious as AP would be better able to check its own facts!

[SlicerDicer-]

19. Sorry mate I was not trolling. I was being serious

And another matter is that I do feel bad for what happened. And to blame it on something that is unrelated is pretty much vile. It makes the people who died die in vain.. There is nothing to be justified nobody takes the blame and it will happen again.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/green-ideas-must-take-blame-for-deaths-20090211-84mk.html?page=-1

Note I am not the only one who feels this way. And bear in mind I may be a so called "Yank" but I have spent a considerable amount of time in your country and I love it there. I have many of stamps in my passport. I am one of the few Americans who have one (look up stats its horrible most americans talk out their ass) they do not even go out of the country to get another prospective.

And another thing.

a guy who was fined 50k for clearing land and his house ended up being one of the only remaining in the town.

But yes that's right, all up it cost him in excess of 100K in fine, plus legal fees etc. Saved his house though.

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=755167 read all about it there if you wish. If you are not a member you cant read it however.

And if you dont believe me http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25046286-5000117,00.html there ya go.


CLEAR YOUR GOD DAMN LAND!!! THIS IS NOT CLIMATE CHANGE!!

I hope you learned something.. That I am not a troll I look objectively at the situation. And even before news reports were out about the greenies my mind defaulted there as I follow Australia events closely.. And I wonder why? Maybe as I have for quite a while now considered moving there.

[jwirr]

3. Underbrush gives a fire fuel but it does not start the fire but we have

learned from the southwest USA that high temps for days on end can.

[Warpy]

4. Yes, and much of their vegetation is similar

Just add 100+ degree temperatures for days on end and kick up a little wind and one tossed cigarette butt can start a conflagration.

And for the climate change doubters, this drought has been going on for some time and their 117F temperature set a record.

Things are changing. I have trees in full bud here in NM that wouldn't have been so for another 3 weeks when I first moved here 18 years ago.

[SlicerDicer-]

7. Note my post above. Did you see the massive dust storm today? that coverered

the entire middle rio grande valley to about 5000ft above the ground?

[Warpy]

11. Not much at my house

but the sunset tonight was gorgeous, the whole sky was afire.

[Lorien]

5. How about you pull your head out of your ass?

seriously; one of the most ignorant posts I've seen yet.

[SlicerDicer-]

8. Yay! I pissed somebody off

I always do when it comes to climate change. I 100% deny climate change and it is verified through all my posts here. However most of my other posts you would not be quick to say are ignorant.

[ConcernedCanuk]

9. "Yay! I pissed somebody off" - more than one -

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nobody here is going to expect useful information from you

we tried . .

you fail

[ihaveaquestion]

16. Enjoy starting arguments, eh?

Disagreements are the heart of forums like DU, but starting arguments you can't finish just for fun is not exactly good forum behavior.

[SlicerDicer-]

20. Look above at my post. I completed my argument

And really there is no way to deny what I wrote and posted about. Now that there is fact to back up my assertions.

Pissing off people with fact is always fun.

[Number23]

10. You need some Metamucil and a reality check

I LIVE in Australia, oh loud and foolish one. You may live in the House of Denial but every single person here, from the federal government to the man on the street, has openly acknowledged that climate change is one critical component of the fire/floods/drought/heat all going on AT THE SAME TIME.

The summer here has destroyed every single previous record for heat. And not just one or two day records, WEEK LONG records for heat. The temperature here has been over 110 degrees for anything from 10-15 days depending on where you live and some areas have gone months without a drop of rain all while other parts are inundated by floodwaters.

But according to you, if they'd just cleared the brush then there would be no problem!!1one! What a clown...

[cooolandrew]

14. He seems a real good guy PM Kevin Rudd from all I've seen.