Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

KO and Arianna Huffington discuss Obama admin continuing bad policies wrt Bagram Air Base, invstgtns

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Political Videos Donate to DU
 
ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 12:02 PM
Original message
KO and Arianna Huffington discuss Obama admin continuing bad policies wrt Bagram Air Base, invstgtns
 
Run time: 05:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICqUcAn31Pg
 
Posted on YouTube: February 24, 2009
By YouTube Member:
Views on YouTube: 0
 
Posted on DU: February 24, 2009
By DU Member: ProfessorPlum
Views on DU: 442
 
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. On the money. Who's advising Obama? Rahm?
He isn't listening to the smartest people in the room.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. I need to understand something.
Edited on Tue Feb-24-09 01:17 PM by FedUp_Queer
(Let me first say, I didn't watch the clip here. I saw it last night on Olbermann and wrote based upon my recollection.) As I understand it, Bagram is on the battlefield, in Afghanistan, on Afghani soil. Is this the case? If that is the case, I fail to see how those held there are given constitutional protection (unlike Guantanamo, which the Supreme Court held is US soil). Those held at Bagram DO deserve Geneva Convention protection, although that's tenuous. (I just want to note, I'm not a Bushie...in fact, I can't stand him. I am, however, a lawyer so I'm concerned with first and foremost what the law actually says. Regardless of people's beliefs, I think we should treat those folks being held in accordance with the Geneva Convention even if it does not require that we do because it is the moral thing to do. Constitutional rights, I'm less inclined because it's not American soil, as I understand it. If it IS considered American soil, then all bets are off and they should the presumption should be in favor of granting them Constitutional Rights.)

In any event, here is article 4 of Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War Adopted on 12 August 1949 by the Diplomatic Conference for the Establishment of International Conventions for the Protection of Victims of War, held in Geneva from 21 April to 12 August, 1949 entry into force 21 October 1950 (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm):

Article 4

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

B. The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:

1. Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country, if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason of such allegiance to intern them, even though it has originally liberated them while hostilities were going on outside the territory it occupies, in particular where such persons have made an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin the armed forces to which they belong and which are engaged in combat, or where they fail to comply with a summons made to them with a view to internment.

2. The persons belonging to one of the categories enumerated in the present Article, who have been received by neutral or non-belligerent Powers on their territory and whom these Powers are required to intern under international law, without prejudice to any more favourable treatment which these Powers may choose to give and with the exception of Articles 8, 10, 15, 30, fifth paragraph, 58-67, 92, 126 and, where diplomatic relations exist between the Parties to the conflict and the neutral or non-belligerent Power concerned, those Articles concerning the Protecting Power. Where such diplomatic relations exist, the Parties to a conflict on whom these persons depend shall be allowed to perform towards them the functions of a Protecting Power as provided in the present Convention, without prejudice to the functions which these Parties normally exercise in conformity with diplomatic and consular usage and treaties.

C. This Article shall in no way affect the status of medical personnel and chaplains as provided for in Article 33 of the present Convention.

I'm not trying to justify anything, and even pondering the notion that Bush was right about anything makes me want to puke, but I'm having a hard time finding where those being held fit in the Convention definition of POW. My belief that we should treat them this way is because it is the moral thing to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. There are other parts of the Geneva convention that have
nothing to do with POWs, or armed combatants. The other sections have to do with holding any people, civilians, etc., that are imprisoned when one country is invading/occupying another. So, even though those held may or may not fit the above definitions, there are other, much broader categories that include them.

They are not on US soil, therefore the constitutional guarantees probably don't apply - but the Geneva conventions definitely do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Gotcha.
I knew that the Geneva Conventions (or even Hague conventions perhaps) addressed civilians, but I though Bagram was for those people caught on the battlefield. Thanks for the clarification.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Jan 05th 2025, 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Political Videos Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC