Bill Maher on Obama-'Chocolate Jesus'; 'Limousine Liberal' Charity Events; Left's Speech Repression

[Fountain79]

Run time: 10:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NYUK2Ba3eA   Posted on YouTube: May 25, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: May 25, 2009 By DU Member: Fountain79 Views on DU: 7247

 
I found his comments concerning limonsuine liberals and free speech censorship on college campuses to be interesting. It seemed that he was biting the hand that feeds him with those remarks. Thoughts?

[Buzz Clik]

1. Bill Maher absolutely nails it:

"They have their finger on the "politically correct" button. That's what bugs me the most about liberals. They object before they know what they're objecting to."

[radiclib]

2. I think he makes good points

All liberals aren't perfect. No brainer.

[47of74]

3. He's nobody's stool pigeon

[hangman86]

4. I agree with most of what he says about PC liberals.

I can't stand them. They give us a bad name. I think we're smart enough as a group to tell the difference between a person who makes an outrageous comment and means it (Limbaugh, Savage, Coulter)and one whose joking around. The fact is that over-the-top jokes can be hilarious and, even people just relax a little, completely harmless.

I do disagree with him that liberals have been the biggest detractors of free speech. Who were the ones in uproar over Wanda Sykes a few weeks ago?

[Fountain79]

6. There is a difference between...

Being in an uproar and going out of your way to block someone from speaking. There have been many examples of conservative speakers being shouted down and prevented from even speaking on college campuses which in my opinion makes a person arguing against them look weak. Rather than trying to disrupt someone from speaking why not engage in a respectful debate?

[hangman86]

12. True.

On college campuses liberals definitely have the larger numbers of free speech detractors.

[gtar100]

159. That's not always a choice people have.

Someone with a microphone, a stage, and an audience has a far bigger advantage of getting their words out than any audience member...let alone a TV viewer. Healthy debate is fine but if someone is spewing utter bullshit nonsense and isn't being challenged on it, then the other side of free speech should kick in and speak out. It may not be pleasant and the intellectuals may throw fits but it may be all there is to demonstrating that there are people out there who aren't buying into the bullshit.

[kenfrequed]

8. I find...

That it ends up being the corporatist democrats that don't really have a liberal bone in their friggin body that make a big deal about harmless jokes. It ends up being a non-binding way you can feign allegiance to an ideal badly while actually comitting to nothing and discrediting the idea itself.

I never hear Ted Kennedy or Dennis Kucinich make a fuss over stupid little jokes. Why? Because they are serious liberals.

[rrneck]

5. The difference

between a joke and an insult is that in a joke the straight man can laugh too. Of course, if the straight man is a humorless dolt who takes themselves waaaaay too seriously, then humor is impossible.

[destes]

7. Bill is fed by corporate interests just like everybody else......

....so long as his ratings are up he can say what he wants. Who can predict the vagaries of the viewing public?

[armyowalgreens]

31. He's on a fairly obscure network relative to cable TV.

He doesn't have to modify or compromise as much as those tools on CNN or other news or comedy networks. Maher says things that no one else would want to say. And I don't see his sponsors jumping ship left and right.

[Seldona]

9. Not what you'd expect from a comedian.

Bill's problem is he just isn't that funny. The writers on his show can be funny, as can the guests, occasionally.

I'll take the Daily Show any day, rather than a piss poor copycat with a couple more guests and swearing. Oooh! Edgy!

lol

[Tangerine LaBamba]

10. Agreed ...........

He started his career by ripping off Bill Hicks, even as Hicks was terminally ill and still performing. The more he's on his own, the sadder Maher's performances. His lack of wit, coupled with what I perceive as a kind of nastiness, make for a strained attempt at humor not unlike that of Dennis Miller.

Maher is, as somone pointed out, just another corporate shill, and he gets his $$$ by being professionally outrageous. We've seen how quickly he got jettisoned when he dared to criticize the US - probably his finest and only original moment - after 9/11, so you'd best believe he'll play by their rules now.

His movie, "Religulous," was so mean-spirited, I wondered who ever put up the $$$ for that piece of trash. Not a hint of cleverness or intelligence about it. Just more of Maher's tiresome smirk ........................

[DutchLiberal]

15. To summarize: you're a religious nut who's outsmarted by Bill and therefore, you're pissed at him.

[Kajsa]

18. DutchLiberal,

you have come here with lots of baggage and
it shows in your contentious, close minded responses
to other's posts here.

Your personal prejudices are coming through,
loud and clear.

[DutchLiberal]

62. That's rich, coming from a close-minded whiner who cries foul over anything...

...that's not politically correct.

No, I love irony, but you're overdoing it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

71. Gee,

you sure do take it hard when someone doesn't think Bill Maher is funny. Brings out the name-caller in you, which just might be your best attribute. Clearly, it's not critical thinking.

You know, you can have surgery to make that thing bigger .......................

[DutchLiberal]

74. You only have "that's my opinion" and you say *I* am not a critical thinker?

Oh, sorry, no, YOU are the ultimate argument-winner with your "my opinion is holy" attitude... :eyes:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

87. What's wrong?

You can't bear to have someone not find Bill Maher funny.

Why is that?

[DutchLiberal]

91. What's wrong? You can't offer a rational explanation why he's not funny.

Why is that so hard? Is it because it involves rational thinking?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

96. I simply agreed with someone

who didn't find him funny.

Others felt the need to attack that opinion.

Why is that?

[DutchLiberal]

99. I'm still waiting to see any argumentation.

Have to warn you: better be quick. It's getting late over here, so hurry...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

105. "... argumentation ..."

On what planet do you dwell, where expressing an opinion about a second-rate comedian on a message board is an "argumentation"?

You're all worked up about something that doesn't exist. I will defend forever your right to think Maher is funny. By the same token, I would expect reasonable humans to defend my view of him as not funny...............

[DutchLiberal]

107. The only thing that doesn't exist is my so-called getting worked up.

I asked you a simple question. If that's too hard for you, just say so. There's no shame in that.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

110. Everything you've shown so far

has been very simple.

But, you still have not responded to why it's so hard for you to deal with someone who thinks Bill Maher is not funny.................

[DutchLiberal]

113. I kept it simple in order for you to understand.

But maybe I should've kept it even simpler. I mean, when you can't even grasp Bill Maher's critical points toward religion...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

122. But,

you can't articulate why you can't accept my opinion that Bill Maher isn't funny.

That should be easy if you have the courage of your convictions.

Make it yours and state your case. It'll be perfectly valid..........................

[DutchLiberal]

125. I accept opinions, not bullshit. That's where you're mistaken.

I want to explain it to you real slow, if you want. Do you want that, dear?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

128. Back to making it personal?

Oh, dear, that's unfortunate.

My opinion of Bill Maher is "bullshit"?

That's what you think?

Well, if that's what you think, that's what you think.

How embarrassing for you ....................

[DutchLiberal]

131. You're doing that projecting thing again.

Frankly, you got me worried. Your responses are faltering...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

140. Does it lessen your anxiety

to make feeble attempts at insulting someone on a message board?

Because it goes nowhere in terms of explaining why you cannot tolerate an opinion of a comedian that doesn't jibe with your own.

You better pick it up, because I'm getting bored ..................

[DutchLiberal]

143. Gee, why don't you look into the mirror, Mr/Mrs Projection?

What are you trying to be, the new face of hypocrisy?

[IntravenousDemilo]

161. GIRLS! GIRLS! YOU'RE BOTH PRETTY!

Jeez Louise!

[paulsby]

148. this is just silly

how does anybody offer a "rational explanation" as to WHY somebody isn't funny?

humor is subjective and you can't critique it in a "rational explanation" way like you can policy or something like that.

some people find him funny, some don't.

[Kajsa]

150. Right- Sure thing,RL!

We're just a bunch of cry babies,
looking for something to "whine" about.

Uh-huh, Right!

I forgot-Bill Maher is perfect.

:eyes:

2re·tard
Function:
noun
Date:
1788
1 \ri-ˈtärd\ : a holding back or slowing down : retardation
2 \ˈrē-ˌtärd\ often offensive : a retarded person ; also : a person held to resemble a retarded person in behavior

btw,
you conveniently avoided answering this question,

So, I guess according to you,
objecting to the use of the 'N' word is being "whiny" too, eh?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

20. You got me!

Damn. Now all the other nuns here in the convent are going to want to use my DU account.

Bitches, all of them........................

[Kajsa]

22. ----

:rofl: :hi:

[DutchLiberal]

61. The movie is only 'mean-spirited' toward the nuts. If you're offended by it...

... that says more about you than it does about Bill.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

73. So you regard people

who are religious and who take their beliefs seriously as "nuts"?

Well, that explains it all - you're a bigot.

And that says everything about you ...................

[DutchLiberal]

78. I regard the people in Bill's movie as nuts.

Yes, I think people who believe men and dinosaurs co-existed 10.000 years ago, and then make theme parks out of it, NUTS. Yes, I believe they're crazy. If you think that's "mean-spirited", you obviously feel attacked. Why should you feel attacked when you're not one of the nuts? But you do feel attacked, so...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

89. I do?

I 'feel attacked'?

Oh.

Thank you.

That would account for my laughter.

Thank you for clarifying. That's a great gift you have.

So, how come you can't stand it that someone doesn't find Bill Maher funny?

[DutchLiberal]

93. Oh, you don't feel attacked? You're just flaming for the sake of it?

And is that also the reason you keep derailing the topic by pretending that I "stand it that someone doesn't find Bill Maher funny"?

Well, that explains a lot.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

98. You can't answer, can you?

Go back to the beginning. I simply agreed with a DUer who also didn't find Maher funny.

And now, with you, yes, I'm playing with my food because you cannot articulate why you're in this up to your eyeballs.

Maher's not funny. That's my opinion. So what?

[DutchLiberal]

101. I never answer to questions with a false premise, designed to fling mud.

Maybe if you posed an interesting question, I would answer.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

108. Ha........

Tell you what -

You sit there and wait and when I come up with a question I think worthy of you, I'll post it.

Just sit there.

And, while you're sitting there, try to comprehend why you're in this so deeply when all it stands for is that I don't think Bill Maher is funny.

Why does that upset you so?

[DutchLiberal]

111. Nah, I won't wait. It would take too long for you to produce a thought...

Any thought.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

120. Well, that's all right ......

I still defend your right to think Bill Maher is funny.

And I even defend your inability to articulate why you cannot accept that someone doesn't find him funny.

Some people need defending, and I'll defend you....................

[DutchLiberal]

123. Just like I will defend your right to confuse bullshit with a well-founded opinion.

Hey, if you want to trash Maher without giving any reason or basis whatsoever, just because you can't grasp his questioning, that's your right, isn't it? :)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

134. Calling names is a sign of weakness

I don't think your opinion is "bullshit." I think it's perfectly valid, because it's yours, and I will defend your right to have it, to express it.

It's a pity you are incapable of extending the same respect to another whose opinion is different from yours.

Maybe someday you will be. That will be good .................

[DutchLiberal]

136. Then why don't you quit doing it?

[SkyDaddy7]

19. Religulous was not mean spirited...

All Bill did was point out just how absurd religions are. Anytime anyone says anything critical about religion its "mean spirited"! At the same time religion is on our money, it is fighting to stop medical research, it used against women, against GLTB community, and creeping into everything within America because no one is allowed to question the delusion!

"mean spirited" WHATEVER!!


I think there should be more movies done about religion especially in America.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

21. My opinion is that it was mean-spirited,

and yours is that it is not. The beauty of DU is that we can disagree without being nasty or getting into name-calling. And, while I think your assertion that "Anytime anyone says anything critical about religion its (sic) 'mean spirited!" is a broad and erroneous generalization, I understand how you might believe that, even though it's not so.

Understand, I find organized religion of any kind a total joke, and if I were Queen Of the World, I'd outlaw them. But, you know, someone somewhere would put one together, and it would be an underground operation, simply because people seem to need to hold onto things that, to me, make no sense.

But, that said, I don't have any reason to mock the beliefs of those who need to hold onto a belief that I find absurd. Maher was mean, as I saw it, and seemed to be the kid standing behind someone posing for a photo, holding up the "V" fingers behind the person's head, thinking he's clever.

There. I've just made statements critical of (organized) religion. Do they strike you as "mean spirited"? They are not. They're thoughtful and considered and rendered without condemnation. Maher did the exact opposite, but maybe it was just bad editing that made him look like a fool trying to make others look foolish. That might account for why the film was such a commercial and critical flop.

I'd like to see a good documentary made about organized religion in the whole world. For openers, though, if you want to get a nice, close look at how parts of the Roman Catholic church work, I urge you to watch "Twist Of Faith," a documentary that is heartbreaking in the story it tells .............................

[radiclib]

25. You saw a different movie than I did apparently

I found absolutely nothing "mean" about Religulous. Maher was friendly and inquisitive with all his interview subjects. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but how about we try this? Instead of "as I saw it" and "seemed to be", how about an actual example of Maher being "mean spirited"?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

26. Oh, so an opinion isn't good enough for you?

You want a specific instance, an isolated piece of footage, something concrete about which everyone would agree so that you could understand that someone might see something differently from you?

Isn't it interesting that I have no need to request from you an example of what you perceived to be his "friendly and inquisitive" stance with the people he interviewed, and yet you feel it necessary to tell me that you want "an actual example"?

I am comfortable with you having your opinion. It's unfortunate, and more than a bit telling, that you cannot afford me that same acceptance. It does betray a certain insecurity and uncertainty about your perception, but that's all right. I do believe that you saw the film differently than I did.

But I need no proof from you since I'm sure of my position. I'm sure you understand now that I'll let you off your self-made hook and tell you that, honestly, your opinion is just as good as anyone else's. Be sure of that, and you won't have to try to make someone else wrong by trying to make yourself feel "right."

See, they're opinions. There is no "wrong" or "right" and there is no need for proof. But, if you want to see something from another's perspetive, perhaps you might watch the film again and view it as if you are a true believer, a devout and committed member of one of the groups represented in the movie, and see how it looks to you.

An open mind is a wonderful thing, able to embrace more than one concept at a time ......................

[DutchLiberal]

69. Usually, opinions are based on something.

Since you refuse to discuss the basis of your opinion, I assume you have nothing to base your opinion on. And that's what I call 'bullshit' instead of an opinion.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

75. HAHAHAHHA!

I'm getting PMs from people who want to know why you're so hung up on the concept of someone not finding Bill Maher funny.

I'm telling them that you're just misguided, but you have a good heart, and when your education is complete, and you grow up, you'll be a very nice person, ashamed that he went so nuts just because someone didn't think a certain entertainer was funny.

Kind of sucks to be you, doesn't it?

Well, I'm on your side, and I believe in you.

:thumbsup:

[DutchLiberal]

79. What makes you think I'm interested in so-called PMs from your imaginary friends?

And what makes you think personal insults are an argument winner?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

90. What makes you so uncomfortable

with someone having an opinion of Bill Maher's performances that is different from yours?

[DutchLiberal]

94. What makes you so uncomfortable with actually discussing a topic?

Why do you have the need to derail the topic all the time? Do you think that by simply repeating the same false 'accusation' you will somehow 'win'?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

100. No, dear.......

I'm taking it back to its origins, and you're trying to piggyback on what I've asked.

Clumsy attempt to take control, which you lost a long time ago, when you realized you had to keep responding.

I'm starting to feel sorry for you, and this whole subthread will be deleted later, as it should be, but, still, I'm glad you think Maher is funny.

I don't think he's funny.

[DutchLiberal]

103. As I recall, the origins was me asking you why you despised critically thinking...

...like Maher does in his film.

Maybe your definition of 'control' is trying to flame me away?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

116. No, you're wrong ........

Look at my first post on the subject, which was an agreement with Kajsa, who also didn't find Maher funny.

That's very simple. You should understand that.

[DutchLiberal]

119. So after all this time you still can't give an example of his mean-spiritedness?

Wow...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

129. Why should I have to "give an example"?

You're serious?

Where did I ask for an example of Bill Maher being funny?

It's a matter of taste. I don't think he's funny.

My opinion.

I don't have to defend it to anyone, but, clearly, you're unhappy and uncomfortable with my thinking differently about Maher than yo do.

Why is that, do you think?

[DutchLiberal]

133. Usually, when you trash somebody, you have a reason for it.

Otherwise, you're just talking out of your ass. So, that's why.

But since it seems too difficult for you...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

142. ".. trash someone.."?

I don't find Maher funny, for my own reasons, and you think it's "trashing"?

Well, that's kind of sad. Suggests a lot of things, none of which are relevant here.

And, no, I'm being perfectly clear and polite and simply asking you a basic question:

Why can't you handle my not finding Bill Maher funny?

And why do you feel the need to try to insult me?

[DutchLiberal]

145. Why can't you handle being asked to provide a simple argument?

Why do you feel like you have to resort to smearing and lying? I pity you.

[DutchLiberal]

66. Organized religion is not 'nice' or tolerant of others. Why should Bill be?

Bill has a good reason to mock beliefs he thinks are ridiculous. Because he thinks those beliefs are dangerous. And I agree.

Organized religion can mock and insult everybody. But when a comedian does it, of all people, so-called 'liberals' make a fuss about it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

70. If you find someone mocking others entertaining,

then I'm not surprised you'd enjoy that movie.

The lowest denominators are so easily amused..............

[DutchLiberal]

72. Bill is critically questioning core issues in society.

It involves reflection and critically thinking. I guess that's not your cup of tea. So be it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

77. Yes, I can understand that you'd see it that way -

your superficial and uninformed perspective would certainly give you that impression.

That's good, because Bill Maher needed to sell as many tickets as possible. You were one of the very few who did that, and I'm sure Maher is very grateful.

Now, how come you're so worked up about someone not liking a movie you liked?

How come you're so worked up because someone doesn't share your taste in entertainers?

Bet you don't know .....................

[DutchLiberal]

80. Why don't you explain to this uninformed boy what exactly was so wrong about the movie?

Oooops! Sorry! Someone already asked you that question and you couldn't answer it. You're just here to have a good flame. That's why you're trying to derail the discussion into me being 'worked up'. By the way, that's called 'projection'. Go look it up.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

92. That's right -

and I don't have to defend my opinion to anyone. Why should I? I ask no one to defend his or her opinion, so I'm no different.

Now, why is it that you cannot bear someone not finding Bill Maher funny?

Why do you keep ducking the central, and only meaningful, question?

[DutchLiberal]

97. You asked a meaningful question? Where? When? You're sure?

I didn't see one.

Yeah, you trash someone who is critically examining one of society's taboos subjects. I want to know why. You can't tell. "That's my opinion" is not an argument. Get used to it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

102. I'm not arguing,

so of course you'll find no argument with me.

You do seem to be stepping on your own unit.

That's kind of sad.

But, Maher's not funny..............

[DutchLiberal]

104. You're right. Arguing implies using arguments.

And since you have none, you're not arguing. My bad..

[Tangerine LaBamba]

118. It's not an argument ...........

I have absolutely no problem accepting that you find Maher funny.

The problem, and it is yours, is that you cannot accept that I don't think he's funny...............

[DutchLiberal]

121. Oh, that's right, you think spouting bullshit is the same as having an opinion...

Okay, dear, whatever you want... :eyes:

Now isn't it past bedtime for you? We don't want to tire you.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

132. Cornered,

trapped, with nothing to say, so you caved, and now, damn, I am sorry for you.

I wonder if you'll ever figure out why someone not finding Bill Maher funny flipped you out so badly.

I hope you do. It might make for smoother sailing, and I wish that for you ........................

[DutchLiberal]

135. Oh yes, you got me so caved, you don't want to know. I'm crying my eyes out.

Of course, I'm crying because your responses have gotten this lame.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

144. Ah, well,

since my only reason for living is to keep you intellectually stimulated, it appears that I have failed.

So, I'll dismiss you now, and hope you find something calming and good to ease your agitated state.

Best of luck to you .........................

[DutchLiberal]

146. It seemed to me your only reason for living was to sling mud at message boards...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

86. You're right -

he's so significant.

Just ask him .............

[DutchLiberal]

106. At least he can articulate an argument. I'm still waiting for yours...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

112. I told you ..........

I stated an opinion.

I'm not in any argument.

I'm just entertained by your vast agitation over my not thinking Bill Maher is funny.

[DutchLiberal]

114. Maybe you should try a new talking point.

You know, to keep things fresh.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

124. I'm fond of purity,

and clear thinking.

When cornered, the defeated party always tries to change the subject, but, alas, that's just not a good idea here.

You like Maher. I'm glad for that. But you do not like that I don't find him funny. Yet, you cannot say why.

That's pretty simple, and kind of endearing ............................

[DutchLiberal]

127. Then why don't you try that clear thinking you speak of?

Because I haven't seen it up until this point. Repeating something because you hope it will stick the 634th time is not really a shiny example of clear thinking, now is it, hon?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

137. Cornered and bereft ............

As I said, I think your taste in Maher is yours and worthy of respect. I don't agree, but you don't see me trying to hound you into giving an example of why Maher is funny. Nor have I characterized your opinion as "bullshit."

But, you're lost, so you're doing the best you can. That's understandable ...................

[DutchLiberal]

138. Maybe if you keep saying that over and over to yourself, you might convince yourself.

[burning rain]

27. Oh come on.

If you don't go for Maher, OK, but he's much better than the completely unfunny, schmaltzy, lame Dennis Miller. Good God, I would think O'Reilly of all people would give him the boot in favor of a hot blonde comedian.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

28. No, I don't find either of them very funny ........

They're strained and working so hard at being "cutting edge," and they both fail for me.

Just my opinion. You've got yours, I've got mine. They're both valid ..................

[burning rain]

29. Fine by me! Just... remarkable.

`

[Tangerine LaBamba]

30. I know .......

I can't believe anyone with half a brain finds Maher funny, either, but, hey, it takes all kinds ..........................

[burning rain]

39. S'alright.

My own taste for Maher is a limited one, and I agree with much of what you say above. But Miller... yikes! He is so completely unfunny it makes me squirm uncomfortably to see him!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

41. I remember .........

when I found Dennis Miller funny.

I really did. He was so young and so different and he really had a delightful take on things.

It did not, however, last long. He rapidly became a nasty parody of himself, straining to be the "intellectual" comedian. His stint on Monday Night Football was so bad, I quit watching - and I loved pro football back then.

Ever see or hear Bill Hicks? I have a feeling you'd have loved him ................

[burning rain]

50. I'll have to go after some Hicks.

He's one that a girl I used to date listened to a good bit, and I definitely liked his stuff, though oddly it hasn't stuck with me.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

53. youtube

is your friend, and keep in mind that Bill died in 1994...................

[burning rain]

60. Thanks!

`

[Fedja]

153. To be perfectly honest...

I saw Religulous from an elevated standpoint of not living in the US (any more). I saw it for what it was, and the topics it talked about, rather than nailing every statement to some social structure.

As such, I figured it was a brilliant and brave piece, and it very much asks Americans the question that Europe has been asking itself for many years. Why do we allow a 2000+ year old ideology to run the modern world?

Regardless of what you thought of his questions, they have to be asked. They have to be asked over and over, if for no other reason to re-evaluate where we stand and how to proceed. If you choose Jesus as your senator, that's fine with me. But you should be thinking about it, rather than nodding obediently.

[gtar100]

160. Gotta disagree. I laugh a lot when he's on and thoroughly enjoyed Religulous

I think what you call "mean-spirited", I would call speaking out about the elephant in the room in regards to religion. And I find him to be quite clever - his New Rules segment is typically always funny and thought-provoking. I'm generally left with food for thought after his show. He normally has very good guests, he lets them speak their mind, and he normally doesn't let people get away with saying outrageous nonsense. No one's perfect and I disagree with him on issues but I like his wry sense of humor and perspective on events.

So who's wrong. Me or you?

[Kajsa]

11. Maher's continuous use of the word

'retard' as a put down was the final straw for me.

http://www.r-word.org

And Maher taunted those who found it offensive with

" C'mon, call me- I've got you guys on speed dial"

Really, Bill?

Now it's OK in your book to make fun of disabled people?

He has become a pompous jackass!

[DutchLiberal]

16. Thank you for proving Bill's point about politically correct whining 'liberals'.

You're exactly the kind of sour people real liberals detest so much.

[Kajsa]

17. "Whining liberals"?

I have a son who is disabled and the 'R'
word has the same impact on them as
the 'N' word does to the African-American community.

So, I guess according to you,
objecting to the use of the 'N' word is being "whiny" too, eh?

Or, to paraphrase you,

"whining liberals".

[armyowalgreens]

33. There is no way in hell that retard is anyway comparable to nigger...

Sorry that is an objection that you shouldn't make.

I call my friend a retard, but that doesn't mean I think he is mentally handicap. That means he is acting like an idiot or a dumbass.

[Kajsa]

36. I and many others who are

directly connected to the disabled community disagree with you.

They are one and the same.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=316538&mesg_id=316658

[armyowalgreens]

38. Says you...

But that doesn't mean you are right simply because you are closer to disabled people.

Like I said, I fully support stopping the usage of the word retard to refer to or make fun of mentally disabled people.

But I'm not going to stop calling my friend retards because I don't literally mean they are mentally handicapped. I mean they are acting like dumbasses.

[Kajsa]

43. Same response here,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=316538&mesg_id=316668

[Tangerine LaBamba]

45. There's a world of difference

between what you say in private conversations that, however loud they might be, are not published, sent out over the airwaves to thousands and thousands of people.

My black friends occasionally - very occasionally - use the word "nigger" among themselves, even when I'm there (I'm Caucasian), and I find that fine, too. So long as they're comfortable with it and not doing it on TV, it's all fine.

See the difference?

[armyowalgreens]

48. No. There in fact is no difference

The only difference is that you have a greater likelihood of reaching people who like whining about that shit. What they need to do is understand the context it is being used in and get over it.

I called my mothers religious beliefs "irrational" yesterday and she went apeshit. But what she didn't understand was that I was using "irrational" not in an offensive way but in a scientific context. She lacks reasonable evidence to support her position on God and therefore her position is irrational. That isn't me dissing her. It's me telling her how religious belief is not and cannot be associated with science. I spent 30 minutes calming her down but eventually she got it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

52. You do claim English

as your native tongue, right?

You find no difference between pubic and private utterances?

Really?

And your use of the word "irrational" in regard to your mother's religious beliefs upset her so badly, it took half an hour to calm her down?

"I spent 30 minutes calming her down but eventually she got it."

Uh.

I do believe such pathologies transcend those that can be discussed in any reasonable manner, especially on a message board, and so I will wish you and your mother all the best .................

[armyowalgreens]

57. There is a difference in reactions because you are reaching a larger audience.

But my words carry no different meaning simply because I am speaking to 1000 people instead of one. I'm just more likely to be attacked by someone who misunderstands my point.

I wish you all the best as well. Enjoy running away from points. It should help keep you in shape.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

65. When someone gifts you with a dictionary,

look up "public" and "private."

Oh, and "nuance."

Congratulations on your George Aiken approach to victory. I'll wager it worked as well for you as it did in history.

And, enjoy that dictionary .................

[Fedja]

154. Nuance indeed.

I'm a member of a less-than liked minority in my country. I'm of Serbian descent, and live in Slovenia, which was one of the 1st republics to secede from Yugoslavia (brief armed conflict included). That was simply for context, so that you know recent war is included in the heated passions.

Now... There's a word one would equate to the 'n word' in my country, which was initially a derogatory label for other former Yugoslav nationalities. It later came to include meanings of general contempt, but not necessarily nationally oriented.

So, if someone was to call me that to my face, and it was felt that he's intentionally offending my heritage and family roots, yes I would be offended. Many westerners find it hard to understand that such action is sometimes a matter of life and death in these parts of the world. We're deadly serious about national pride, and there's no gray area there.

BUT, if someone used it as a general derogatory term for a random person, or even for me... If he was using it to mock my clothing, my driving, or something I said... I'd be fine with it. I've used it in that context myself before, and no harm was meant. Could I feign outrage and rave about nationalism? Could I have a fit and pound said offender?

I guess I could. But that would make me a retard, if you know what I mean.

[tblue37]

67. TLB, you might want to fix this typo (heh heh heh).

You find no difference between pubic and private utterances?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

85. Oh, dear .........

No, let's leave it. Makes the discussion so much more, uh, encompassing, no?

hee hee

(Nice catch! :thumbsup:)

[IntravenousDemilo]

163. Why the ad hominem? "You do claim English as your mother tongue, right?"

Must you call down the poster's English when it's perfectly clear that there is no problem therewith? Or how about your use of "such pathologies" -- now you're accusing the poster of being sick in the head. What did he say or do that deserved this broadside?

Your opinions would carry more weight if you'd refrain from ragging on people.

[DutchLiberal]

63. Bill doesn't make fun of your son, or of any disabled person.

You choose to be outraged, and it's a fake outrage. And it perfectly proves Bill's point: you need something to be mad about, so you cling on to everything that might be explained of as being offensive.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

24. You're right, but

it would have been so much funnier if he'd said "crips," don't you think? Takes in a larger constituency.

God bless you for being a "real" liberal. All these fakers out here should follow your lead and be as clear-thinking and non-judgmental as you.

God bless you............................

[DutchLiberal]

64. Thank you, glad you could learn from me.

(Yes, I know you were sarcastic, but it's totally out of place.)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

68. ".. learn..."?

From you?

Oh, darling, I'll pray for you, but I would never emulate you.

That would be degrading.................

[DutchLiberal]

82. You do that. You 'talk' to your imaginary friend up in the sky.

You've really impressed me now with your overwhelming intellect...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

83. You betcha, my lord and master ..........

And I live, as you know, to impress you ..................

[DutchLiberal]

84. So far you ain't doing a good job.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

95. And yet,

you have to keep responding with your - oh, dear - best shots. Such a dear you are.

So, how come you are so uncomfortable with someone not finding Bill Maher funny?

[DutchLiberal]

109. I'd do everything to keep you off the streets.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

115. Why make it personal?

That's kind of sad.

Why not just state simply - we know that you're simple - why you can't accept that someone doesn't think Bill Maher is funny?

[DutchLiberal]

117. Wait... Wasn't it personal from the first time you opened your mouth?

I mean, your constant repeating of a false question intended to smear me just proves it.

But that just isn't working. That's a pity, isn't it?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

126. Calling a simple statement

a "false request" doesn't make it false any more than calling a dog a cat makes the dog a cat.

You have trouble with my opinion of Maher.

I have no trouble with your opinion of Maher.

One of us is intolerant, and unable to articulate why that intolerance is so powerful within him.

As I said, I defend your right to have an opinion different from mine.

And won't you be relieved when this whole funny subthread is deleted?

[DutchLiberal]

130. Oh no, baby, I could go on all night. But maybe you need a rest?

I can imagine repeating the same false question all the time can become tiresome.

But I want to help you. Because it's you, you know? You can need some help. I'm gonna give you a tip: if it doesn';t stick the first 654 times, it won't stick the 655th time. Just ask the Republicans.

You seem to have more in common with them anyway, you know, what with your whole disdain of critical thinking.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

139. An answer -

that would end this whole thing. An answer to why you are unable to bear my not finding Maher funny.

Basics..................

[DutchLiberal]

141. That was not the question. Oh my poor thing, are you so confused?

Oh my, then let me refresh your memory. The question was why you hate Maher's critical questioning of silly nonsensical beliefs. Can you answer that for me, honey?

[armyowalgreens]

32. Retard relative to intelligence means to have it withdrawn or diminished.

Just as the wildfire can retard over night and the retardant can help put it out and the timing of an engine can be retarded or advanced.

As far as I'm concerned calling someone a retard is no different than calling them an idiot. People need to get over it. He was right about PC liberals bitching all the time.

[Kajsa]

34. That's not how they see it.

Please read this, again.

http://www.r-word.org/

[armyowalgreens]

37. That is honestly irrelevant...

"I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities."

Good I support that. I'm not going to go up to a mentally disabled person and call them a retard.

But that doesn't mean I can't use the word retard in other contexts. Remember folks simply because a word used in one context is bad does not mean it is bad in other contexts.

[Kajsa]

40. I did qualify it

as used as a put down.

That is in my first post and that is what I'm referring to.

[armyowalgreens]

42. As a put down against a mentally disabled person or someone acting like a moron?

[Kajsa]

44. Either one.

I happen to disagree with you that it is OK in certain
contexts.

[armyowalgreens]

46. But like I said before, I use it to qualify my friends as dumbasses

Or to qualify anyone as as acting like or being a dumbass.

I don't see a problem with that at all. Other than the fact that it is unprofessional in many circumstances.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

49. To you, "retard" means "dumb,"

as you have stated

You might want to check your dictionary. Your use of the language is questionable, and I'm assuming English is your native tongue, right?

Compared to your friends, though, I'll bet you're brilliant................

[armyowalgreens]

51. I'm slightly above average in intelligence but so are all my friends.

No, to me, retard means to diminish ones intelligence. When my friend does something stupid I call him retarded.

What I am saying is that there is potential for intelligence, but that intelligence is clearly not being utilized.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

54. You need a dictionary.........

And your above-average claim is noted...................

[DutchLiberal]

147. And you need to make sure you don't fall when you're climbing of your high horse.

[Kajsa]

55. Here you go,

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retard<2>

check out definition #2 under

retard-noun.

2re·tard
Function:
noun
Date:
1788

2 \ˈrē-ˌtärd\ often offensive : a retarded person ; also : a person held to resemble a retarded person in behavior

[armyowalgreens]

56. You are sneaky...

1 : to slow up especially by preventing or hindering advance or accomplishment : impede

And now you're done.

Like I said before, words can have multiple meanings.

But I now see that you have a clear agenda to get your point across no matter what it takes. Good luck with that.

[Kajsa]

58. So #2 is irrelevant to you, right?

especially the part that states,
'often offensive'.

Good luck with that.

[armyowalgreens]

59. No it isn't irrelevant to the word. But it's irrelevant to my usage...

Like I said before, I support not using retard against mentally handicapped people. But I will use it in other contexts.

[Kajsa]

151. I see,

2re·tard
Function:
noun
Date:
1788
1 \ri-ˈtärd\ : a holding back or slowing down : retardation
2 \ˈrē-ˌtärd\ often offensive : a retarded person ; also : a person held to resemble a retarded person in behavior

[tblue37]

76. Interestingly enough, "idiot" and "moron" were once the preferred

labels doctors used for the developmentally disabled. Then, because those words became used as insults, doctors switched to "retarded"--ironically, as a more pc euphemism. Then it started being used as an insult, too, so now "developmentally disabled" is the preferred term, with the added benefit (they thought) that it could not be easily slung around as an insult. But lo and behold, kids in grade school and middle school now call each other "developmental" as an insult.

Just like "pansy," "fag," and other such slurs, once a term associated with a certain marginalized and discriminated against group begins to be slung around as an insult for mainstreamers, it becomes offensive to those it was originally associated with--specifically because it now is an insult. I suspect "pansy" was always an insult, but I wonder about "fag." I believe I read somewhere that it started out with a fairly neutral connotation.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

81. I remember that the terms

"idiot," "cretin," and "moron" were designations for those who feel within a certain (very low) IQ boundary or boundaries. Those designations were long ago abandoned, and now the terms are used by those uninformed and/or insensitive souls who think calling names is funny.

I didn't know that about "developmental." No matter what, I guess, our species will always have the need to insult, denigrate, and hurl hurtful words at each other. I wish it weren't so, but that's the way it is.

"Fag" meant cigarette, and "faggots" was a dish that had been imported by the Welsh coal miners who populated my home town in NE Pennsylvania.

http://www.hub-uk.com/specials/special0005.htm

[DutchLiberal]

88. It's simply honest, direct language getting replaced by soft, weak bullshit...

George Carlin did a great skit on politically correct language. Too bad it's not on YouTube anymore.

[Kajsa]

155. Sure it is,

2re·tard
Function:
noun
Date:
1788
1 \ri-ˈtärd\ : a holding back or slowing down : retardation
2 \ˈrē-ˌtärd\ often offensive : a retarded person ; also : a person held to resemble a retarded person in behavior

[IntravenousDemilo]

162. I use the word "retarded" all the time, but NEVER to describe someone who is disabled.

In fact, I never use it to describe any person, just the, well, RETARDED shit they occasionally say or do. The secret is to avoid criticizing a person and instead focus on their outrageous comments, views, and beliefs.

"Retarded" is simply too powerful a word not to use when warranted. Sometimes it's the mot juste.

[DeSwiss]

13. I love this guy!

- K&R!!!

[DutchLiberal]

14. He said it on his show last Friday: "Worship principles, not people!"

He was very harsh on Obama last Friday, and rightly so. This is what I like about Bill, and also what sets him apart from his right-wing colleagues in the media: he always calls out both sides when they're wrong, he doesn't care whether it's a Democrat or a Republican, even when his audience does. I hope he'll always stays that way.

[Lorien]

158. Maher, Stewart and Maddow are all calling out the Dems when they need

to be called out. You's never see that kind of criticism from the Right for their own politicians.

And I like the line; I've been saying as much here since the teenbeat Obama forum really became unnerving; support Democratic principles, not individual politicians who may or may not believe in those principles.

[LiberalLovinLug]

23. Left vs. Right free speech repression

If all the left does is boo at unPC remarks, how is that worse than the rights monopoly of the daytime talk radio where they don't allow anyone on past their screeners who doesn't worship the host. Or their past President's controlled audiences where you were turned away unless you swore an oath to the Republican party?

BTW Maher, I think you are mistaking Oooooooos with Boooooooos. Like in "Ooooo, I can't believe he went there!"

[MrSlayer]

35. Spot on.

Maher nails it again.

[suzanner]

47. The difference: I heard "oo-oo" not "booo"

"Ooo-oo" (instantaneous)is a below the belt kind of reaction like when your brother shoots a rubber band at you in fun. Booo requires at least a 2 second delay and goes on several seconds. I heard the former.

[applegrove]

149. Good interview. BM always makes the world seem so clear.

[ecstatic]

152. He's an asshole first and foremost,

sexist with shades of racism second, and (loosely) liberal third. And I noticed that about him way before Obama was on the scene. I still like his show sometimes when he's not being too offensive.

LOL @ the way he disowned liberals and was saying "they" and "them."

[rucky]

156. Bill Mahr wants liberals to lighten up, yet he takes himself quite seriously.

That's why Kathy Griffin can be irreverent and funny, and Mahr can just be irreverent.

[Lorien]

157. I agree with his take on the current Democratic Party; it IS what the GOP once

was. It's the New Reagan Democrats. Maher is right; we do need a new party to replace it, because attempting to pull it back to the Left just isn't working. They are stepping into the void left by the crumbling GOP.