Dennis Kucinich Calls Out The Military On Their Manipulation Of Teens! Through Video Games

[FLAprogressive]

Run time: 02:28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlKF_gwA2Jc   Posted on YouTube: June 25, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: June 25, 2009 By DU Member: FLAprogressive Views on DU: 3572

 
Go DK!

Ike Skelton, the congressman he's debating with, is a fake democrat and a ruthless shill for the military-industrial complex.

[NorthCarolina]

1. K&R for Americas Congressman nt

[YOY]

2. Dennis. I love you but not to worry.

You see...nobody actually plays it let alone allows it to influence their decision making process in whether they will enlist or not.


Only things that bothers me about this are

1. Someone gave th DoD money for this POS project.
2. That they were immoral/stupid enough to think it would work.

[Go2Peace]

37. He's right. It trivializes war and the consequences of war

Most of our people already have phantasy hero views of war that are much different than countries that have had war on their own territory. These desensitize our youth further.

[YOY]

52. Nobody actually plays it. THe only thing disgusting about it is just what they thought it would do.

It doesn't do that.

And if you think video games actually affect decision making it's laughable.

[FiveGoodMen]

3. Army TV adds contain video game graphics these days

They're clearly trying to fool kids into thinking war is just like PS3.

[Chisox08]

5. Have you seem America's Army 3

It's a free download for PC or you get a free copy when you are visited by a recruiter. They don't need TV ads they have the full video game experience. You even get a kind watered down version of basic training to start the game out.

[FiveGoodMen]

7. Wow. That's disgusting!

[YOY]

12. and how many new recruits do they actually get from this?

Honestly.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. I used to see an army recruitment ad that had a rock music background

and showed soldiers working with cool equipment and playing golf and swimming. "Want to know what it's really like to be a soldier?"it began.

I was just wishing some DUer with better video skills than I (since mine are non-existent) would have taken the soundtrack and juxtaposed it with some of the worst scenes from Iraq. Unfortunately, it never happened.

[FiveGoodMen]

26. An episode of Family Guy lampooned the recruiting ads

by imitating a really over-the-top one which ended with:

"The army! Ooooh YEAH!
(your experience may vary)"

[Butch350]

4. Seen any UFO's lately, Denny?

[Chisox08]

9. Still on the UFO thing again

Why is it that anytime a Democrat is for helping the people they are made to look like a buffoon. It was Dean with the scream now its DK with the UFO. They never asked Obama, Hillary nor any of the Republicans about a UFO during the primaries. Stop trying to tare down one of the few noncooperate sponsered members of the House.

[Butch350]

23. Doesn't make it any less true.

[radiclib]

44. Do you know what "U-F-O" stands for?

It means "unidentified flying object". It doesn't mean "ship from outer space". He didn't say he'd seen a space ship, or little green men with ray guns, or that he was abducted, or anything like that. He said he once saw something in the sky he couldn't explain. I have too, and so have countless thousands of people. Get real.

[Freddie Stubbs]

57. Obama and Hillary were not asked about UFO's because none of their friends wrote books claiming that

those candidates have seen UFO's.

[YOY]

10. What's the matter. Don't like actual left of center democrats?

n.t.

[FLAprogressive]

11. I liked your original reply better.

[YOY]

13. Me too...but it would get deleted.

n.t.

[Cherchez la Femme]

18. Gee, you forgot "throbbing"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1947157/posts

DU's the place to make fun of Democrats now, eh?
Well, the Democrats who are less equal than others...

[fascisthunter]

28. He Struck a Nerve, Didn't He

try this: Unidentified Flying Object

What did you think he meant, little green men? Lol...

[winyanstaz]

38. To think that all "UFO's: mean little flying saucers.....

proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how brain-washed some people can be.
Of course that wouldnt mean you. :) I am sure you would never be that brain-dead. :)
To identify something you do not know the exact make and model of as a "U.F.O." is the proper military, NASA and Airline way to report and it only means that someone "cannot identify" whatever it is.
Dont tell me that you know the name and make of every plane or object you see flying because then I would want to call names and I don't want to do anything wrong.
Dennis Kucinich gave the proper and correct response as anyone that knows their ass from a hole in the wall can testify to and anyone that thinks it meant "little green men" needs to see a Dr. as soon as possible.
Of course, this wouldnt mean you. :)

[Butch350]

6. There is absolutely nothing wrong with serving your country.

The Army needs employees too. There is nothing wrong with trying to get the teeny boppers
into the military - it's an honorable career. In fact, it may be the best opportunity for some
lads and lassies, you know, with this unemployeement thing turning south.

Jeez, people bitch when there are no jobs - the army offers jobs and SOME people still bitch. WTF?

At lot of people out there don't want to serve their country - they want the country to serve them.

[Chisox08]

8. It's a shame that the only jobs that are left is in the military

What does that say about America? That the only thing that we can manufacture is war. I've seen the game that DK is talking about. It glorifies war and doesn't show the real life consequences of real combat. I had a friend that joined up after playing America's Army 1 after a couple of tours in Bush's illegal Iraq War he suffers from PTSD and has found it hard to keep a job.

[YOY]

15. Not to insult but he actually based his decision to enlist on playing America's Army?

You're serious?

[Chisox08]

16. At least that is what he told me

[YOY]

17. I'm really trying not to be insulting but is he...not too sharp?

He joined the army because of a video game???

I mean I am sorry that he has PTSD...I am thankful to him for his sacrifice (which sadly is all for nothing.)...but come on.

I am a LIFELONG gamer and I have never heard of such a thing.

Like I said, not trying to be rude or mean but that is a TOTAL first.

[Chisox08]

19. He wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer

His father was in the army and IMHO his father pushed him more than a video game did. I have a feeling that he is too embarrassed to admit that it was his father and not the game.
I had one of those recuiter visits and he even claims that he has got people to sign up after playing the game for hours.

[YOY]

21. I think you may be right about the father.

I hope he gets better at any rate. Can't imagine the stuff he saw.

[Fedja]

22. Many of us were retards at 18.

I count myself lucky to have pulled through without being able to put too many of my sparkly ideas into practice.

[crim son]

48. Does it actually surprise you to think that some of the folks thinking of enlisting

might possibly be so unsharp that the video game might have a positive effect on their experience at the recruiter's office? Get real, friend.

[YOY]

53. Have you actually played anything since pong?

You get real.

Seriously. You have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Video games do not have any effect on a person's decision making process. NONE. Not a goddamn one.

Although the marketing strategy behind this is immoral it has had no fruition.

[crim son]

58. I don't play video games. Never have,

so in that respect you have a point. My point is, there's a suggestion being made by recruiters that joining the army is about fun and games, which is a lie. I must respectfully send right back to you your "you have no fucking idea what you're talking about." It looks better on you than it does on me.

[YOY]

61. Actually you just proved you don't.

That suggestion made my recruiters doesn't work. This is a waste of money and beyond unethical.

It's also pathetically ineffective. Nobody joins the Army because of a video game. They don't. The one person that said that they knew someone did said he used that excuse because he didn't want to say he joined because of parental presure.

Trying to school someone else by saying they don't know what they're talking about and then admitting that you know nothing about the subject matter...well it's kinda sad.

[snake in the grass]

71. Hell, I wanted to join the NSA...

...after playing "Splinter Cell". That's normal, right?

[Butch350]

24. I was in the Air Force...did not see action in Nam

...however I did learn a skill, in airframes repair which landed me a pretty
darn good job with TWA when I got out of the Military back in 1974. And I attended college thru
GI Bill program and I was able to buy my first home with a VA loan.

Furthermore, employers love to hire indivduals with the military discipline, experience and backround.

And i did not fire one gun at any individual other than a paper target.

[YOY]

14. There is something wrong with this kind of marketing.

Not that it actually works.

[fascisthunter]

29. manipulation to create a military is perverse and un-American

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. Honorable? If it were really about "defending freedom," then it WOULD be honorable

but what's "honorable" about attacking a country that never did anything to your own? What was
"honorable" about acting as advisers to murderous right-wing governments in Central America? What was "honorable" about the Vietnam War?

(The individual soldiers may have honorable intentions for joining the military, but they're actually pawns for military-industrial complex.)

[twitomy]

43. Your directing your wrath at the wrong organization.

The dishonor goes to the civilians who gives orders to the military; those who approve the wastefull spending.

The military kills people and breaks things, that is what they are trained to do. Hopefully they only
do it as part of "standing at the walls so that we can sleep securely at night". Any directed
mis-application of their jobs comes from the civilians who call the shots.

God Bless our Service Men/Women.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. Yes, I know what the military personnel THINK they're doing

but why would an informed person want to be the lackey of a bunch of corporate greedheads?

My attitude would be, "You think it's important to control all the oil in the Middle East? You go get it yourself--or send your own children. If you aren't willing to sacrifice your own children and grandchildren, then it's not important enough for me to take part in."

[twitomy]

55. Because maybe they are not

"the lackey(s) of a bunch of corporate greedheads"

"Corporate greedheads" or not, we still need a military to protect us. Far from being lackeys, Its nice to know there are still some young people who realize this and are willing to put it all on the line. Thus,I refuse to condemn them, in fact I show them to my children as an example of self-sacrifice,duty, and honor.


If my children volunteered, I would be proud of them.

We do not "control" the ME oil supply, but rather make sure it is able to
flow to the markets. Since most of the ME oil does not reach our shores, I would have no problem with other countries taking on the responsibility of guarenteeing its safe passage. But even though
that oil is not destined to the US, it is fungable and its disrpution would hurt our already teetering economy. My children are depending on a good economy in order for me to put food in their belly and a roof over their head.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. In other words, you've swallowed the conventional wisdom line

The U.S. military is larger than the next ten militaries in the world combined. It's grown WAY beyond the need for "protection."

[twitomy]

63. Size Matters.

And if it is too big, is that a reason to denigrate serving?

Yes, we have a large military..that subsidizes the rest of the free world by protecting their asses. I wouldnt be against pulling out of Germany, Japan, Britain, the ME, Bosnia, and anyplace else and let those countries provide for their own defense..Lets see how well those cradle-to-grave programs in those countries last when they have to start providing a real defense for themselves. But something tells me wars would erupt not long after..But at least we cant blame ole USA now can we?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. You talk as if it's still 1945 and these other countries

are still lying in rubble: Britain and Japan, both with militaries proportionate to their population and, in the case of Japan, the U.S. troops wearing out their welcome (It's a myth that Japan is disarmed--they're just not allowed to dispatch troops overseas); the Middle East, where Israel, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia are the largest (1-2-3) recipients of U.S military aid, Bosnia, which the European powers were taking care of it; Iraq, one of those aggressive wars that the Nuremberg Trials condemned,and Afghanistan, where the goalposts keep moving and Osama bin Laden is long gone.

Oh yeah, the military-industrial complex LOVES it some interference in other countries' business, because then it can tap into the endless flow of money offered by the ninnies in Congress who are afraid of being seen as "weak on defense." What contractor wouldn't want to do business with an entity that hands out multi-billion dollar no-bid contracts and has "lost" $2.3 trillion?

I'll believe that a military action is vital to U.S. interests if I see the children and other 18-25-year-old relatives of top government officials and Congressional leaders enlisting en masse, as they did in World War II. Otherwise, they seem happy to callously exploit the patriotism of the poor and lower middle class and con their youth into dying for unworthy causes.

[twitomy]

69. I agree with you!

Because these countries are no longer lying rubble and can take care of themselves we should no longer be there! We agree! But we can bitch about the civilians in charge, the "military-industrial" complex all we want; I just dont like seeing that anger taken out on the military itself and those who would serve. Its misplaced.

[Democracyinkind]

68. You're shitting me, right?

OMFG you cannot be serious. You must have no fucking clue about Europe or military history or military affairs. I think your post was the most ignorant thing I've ever read. Normally I read this kind of shit on abovetopsecret.com or other kook places.

You have heard of NATO, right? (for starters)... but let's leave that. You are trying to convince people who actually know something that if the US would pull out of Europe there would be a war here? Like France against Germany? You must be fucking kidding me. Get real man. Read a book or something. I mean really. Boy. I can't believe I just read this here...

And yeah, I totally agree, size matters, most of us don't dislike the US army solely for its size. I don't think size is really the issue. Rather the perception that you state in your ignorant post that tries to justify that grand (or shall I say "imperial") sized machine of ours.

[twitomy]

70. Yes I do...

Maybe not for a long time; but history has a way of repeating itself. Especially for the Europeans; they seem to revel in war. Remember the "War to End All Wars"?? If you think a war in Europe
can never happen again, I think the one lacking clues is yourself...I mean, didnt we intervene in Bosnia to prevent the war from escalating? (remember WWI started because of some lunatic Serbian there, I know this as I do read books) And if a war in Europe can never happen again, why bother with having NATO? Ohhh thats right, those Russians are Europeans tooo!!! Hey didnt those Russians invade a little country not too recently? But perhaps I should take your position...War can NEVER happen again in Europe, so lets stop wasting money on basing troops there and lets abolish NATO....Does that argument sound better to you? Either way, I dont care..Save the $$ and stop defending Europe/Japan, et al. They can do it themselves and are simply not worth it.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

36. "There is nothing wrong with trying to get the teeny boppers into the military"

Fuck you you idiot.

You're OK with using games to entice children to join the military? Again, fuck you you idiot.

[Fedja]

40. Not exactly what he/she said

To clarify, there's nothing wrong with marketing. The army does it, and does it well.

The problem is in recruitment centers not providing the other half of the story, and in the political leadership sending the army where it does not belong.

[DutchLiberal]

67. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan don't serve your country.

They only cost your country billions of dollars and thousands of lives.

[Greyhound]

20. K&R

[LatteLibertine]

27. People that enlist in the military

because of fantasy are likely going to be disappointed. The reality is far away from movies and games.

I am not suggesting serving in the military is bad and I am suggesting you make a properly informed decision.

[Kaleva]

30. video games provide US with potential millions of trained killers

There's a reason why the military is making it's weapons control equipment very similar to video games. The millions of teenage age boys spending countless hours blowing things up and killing whatever provide the military with a huge potential pool of highly trained recruits to operate the modern weapon systems.

"In short, video games made better soldiers and sailors faster, safer and cheaper.

"The realism you get is the ability to keep somebody engaged and play a game for three or four hours as opposed to in a classroom, where after 15 minutes they're bored," says McCracken.

And, one thing young recruits in today's military have in common is that they've all played video games. They all talk the jargon.

"They know all the words," says gaming expert John Beck. "They can talk, 'Oh, this is like that game, and when they talk about it everybody knows, this is like Halo 2."

And talk about realistic.

One game teaches how to survive ambushes on what looks like a Baghdad street."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/08/eveningnews/main672455.shtml

[dbmk]

39. That is backwards resoning

"There's a reason why the military is making it's weapons control equipment very similar to video games. The millions of teenage age boys spending countless hours blowing things up and killing whatever provide the military with a huge potential pool of highly trained recruits to operate the modern weapon systems."

Or maybe its because the video games industry has continually improved and been on the forefront on how to implement the abstract interface and information stream that is man <-> computer. They would be idiotic not to learn from it.

Its the exact same thing that will and do teach doctors fx.

[Crowman1979]

50. That's odd! Because when I play video games, I keep thinking I can grow big by eating mushrooms and

make odd shaped groups of blocks disappear when they form a line. :sarcasm:

It always helps to read books and to know what your getting into, well in advance of signing the paper. I'm glad my father helped me out in making sure I don't wind up an 0311 in the USMC. Because that was his MOS in the USMC and he kept telling me how much of a pain in the ass it was to get promoted. So I signed up as in the Aviation option, with crash fire rescue and Aviation Ordnance as my top picks. Luckily I wound up with the later. Yeah, the Aviation Ordnance MOS doesn't have a civilian equivalent, but I didn't give a shit at the time. I mainly wanted to see if I could make a career out of it; get as far away from Jackson, Mich as possible; and avoid school for a while, because around that time the last place I wanted to be was in an academic setting.

Even though recruiter try to encourage people to enlist, the Drill Instructors do their best to discourage those who can't hack it. Hell, now from what I hear USMC boot camp has become tougher and they won't re-enlist those who don't have their boat spaces on time.

[YOY]

54. Bullshit. There is no evidence to what you claim. None whatsoever.

Every single time some dope says there is this needs to be pointed out: "There is NO FUCKING CONNECTION BETWEEN VIDEO GAMES AND VIOLENCE."

Clearly you have no goddamn idea what you are talking about. An imbecile lawyer named Jack Thompson has actually gotten his ass disbarred for trying to prove there was...by lying.

And don't even try to pull out that APA study of 2001. It's had so many holes shot in it that it is known as "swiss shit."

[provis99]

31. so what military ad on tv has ever been realistic?`

I mean come on, "An Army of One", "Be All You Can Be" and all that nonsense. Why can't they show the army life the way it really is, and get their recruits that way? The Canadian military ad slogan is "Fight With The Canadian Forces", which I think is a bit more realistic than portraying the army as some kind of self-actualization program.

Video games are just another deceptive way to attract recruits, along with recruiter lying, college bonuses, promises of health care, promises of getting in shape, and the other methods.

[pasto76]

33. deceptive college money? WTF?

Cause my money was very real. And the in shape part too.

If you dont GET, "Army Strong", you never will.

If you didnt GET "BE ALL YOU CAN BE" you never will.

Id you didnt GET, "AN ARMY OF ONE" you never will.

I would like to see, from both sides, people talk less about "the military" who have zero experience with it.

SGT PASTO

[Cid_B]

35. I was glad to get past "Army of One"

Army Strong is infinitely better... I like the new campaign.

Still can't beat that Marine PR though.

LT Cid_B
USA

[muryan]

34. More Jack Thompson bullshit

Dennis is better than this.

[YOY]

62. Yes he is.

There's real problems other than this piece of ineffective worthless military pork.

I don't know what's more pathetic...the military thinking this in an effective strategy or the knee jerkers who get upset thinking this is an effective strategy.

[twitomy]

41. Any kid who spends hours in front of a video game

SHOULD join the military, as it would be a more productive use of his/her time.

No shame in serving your country. I regret I didnt serve; I could have used the discipline.

[Crowman1979]

51. First person shooter video war games suck anyway!

The controls are awful, the history is inaccurate and it over-simplifies everything. IMO the strategy war games provide better realism and are more fun. And when someone asks me about joining the USMC I tell them to: read carefully what your signing, workout a lot, read about the basic history, know what will be expected at boot camp, read the key publications about the MOSs you plan on enlisting for and do your damndest to excel.

As for video games, I prefer those that are either simple, weird and/or at least have a sense of humor. Something original, basically!

[twitomy]

56. Yes absolutely

I would counsel my children that they could lose their life serving, and too think LONG and HARD about it. I would also recommend some of the books I have that spell out the horror of war;
and inform them that could be sent to a bullshit war, or "good" war or maybe no war at all.

Not to scare them, but to inform them. I would also tell them it would teach them life lessons not
learned from a textbook.

If they joined, I would be a proud Father.

[George II]

42. Fake Democrat? Did you ever read the rules of DU????????

[NorthCarolina]

45. Congress and Senate are full of "Fake Dems". They're DLC/New Dems and Blue Dogs. nt

[Evoman]

46. You should see the commercials for the Canadian Army....way different approach..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_6vK_JSSTo&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnzz6WznsE8


The first link shows a couple of different commercials....the second is shorter, but not really as impressive imo.

[madville]

49. Next week he's calling out the banks

Next week he's calling out the banks, real estate industry and Parker Brothers for their manipulation of kids through the Monopoly board game. :) lol

[Ohio Joe]

59. Am I the only one listening to what is being said?

I'm seeing a lot of anger at video games being used as a recruitment tool in this thread and that is NOT what I am hearing DK say. He has three issues with how it is being used, not that it is being used.

1 - Allowing kids that are to young to play. I agree with this, the kids may be old enough for the rating the game has (Teen) but are too young to be targets for recruitment.

2 - The game is not realistic. This is a tactical, squad based, first person shooter. In those regards only, it is actually a fairly realistic game. One hit and your down. Where it differs from reality is that it has been sanitized in order to get the "Teen" rating. It also only shows a very limited view of what actual army life is like.

3 - The collection and use of personnel information. This is a big issue, don't get me wrong, it most definitely needs to be addressed but... it has nothing to do with the game. It is something being done by recruiters before they let people play the game.

It looks to me like people are turning this into another video game bashing thread about how they are destroying our children (won't some please think of the children!) and that does not seem to me to be what DK's issue us and NOT what he is saying. It seems to me, he does not want recruitment aimed at them, recruitment to be honest and recruitment to not misuse personnel information. All very sound things, I agree with him.

[ShortnFiery]

64. Excellent clarification of the subject at hand.

1 - Allowing kids that are to young to play;
2 - The game is not realistic; &
3 - The collection and use of personnel information.

BTW I would differ with your choice of Hockey Teams to endorse. :silly: :hi:

[DutchLiberal]

66. Wow, that room looks empty!