Sea Shepherds' OWN video of Ady Gil being rammed by Japan's Shonan Maru 2

[denem]

Run time: 00:41 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbuq0YEIPNU   Posted on YouTube: January 06, 2010 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: January 06, 2010 By DU Member: denem Views on DU: 8555

 

[baldguy]

1. Looks like the larger ship turns into the Ady Gil.

[slackmaster]

3. Or maybe the larger ship was attempting to avoid a collision by going astern of Ady Gil per rule 15

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule1415.htm

The discrepancy in size is so great that the blame has to fall on Ady Gil.

[peace13]

6. Technically the mini - Sea Shepard was in the big girls danger zone.

Either way, chicken on the high seas is always a bad game.

[thunder rising]

24. the "danger zone" was certainly hard to avoid as the Shonan Maru 2 steered into the Sea Shepard.

Intentionally impairing the vision of the pilot of the Sea Shepard, turning into the Sea Shepard, and ramming. It's not an accident.

Second, the Sea Shepard looks dead in the water until it attempted to gun past the bow. That's when the Shonan Maru 2 steered hard port to make contact. Not an accident.

Jail 'em.

[slackmaster]

54. That begs the question of what the Ady Gil was doing near the Japanese ship in the first place

What was its intent, if not to try to get itself rammed?

Not an accident.

I agree, it was not an accident that the Gil was in the path of the Japanese ship.

[Dead_Parrot]

58. The Gil was there to disrupt the whalers...

...the Maru was there to disrupt Sea Shepherd. Bear in mind the Maru is a "security vessel" - it isn't even equipped for for whaling, the harpoon has been replaced by an extra water cannon.

Sea Shepherd's normal tactic is to get right in front of the whalers and try not to sink, but Bethune has clearly stated he wouldn't be doing that with the Ady Gil (for obvious reasons) and would be taking a more stand-off approach.

[slackmaster]

75. That automatically puts the Gil in the wrong with respect to who is at fault for the collision

Bear in mind the Maru is a "security vessel" - it isn't even equipped for for whaling, the harpoon has been replaced by an extra water cannon.

So intentionally distrupting its naviation, which is exactly what the Gil was trying to do, had no possibility of saving any whales.

That makes the Gil's actions double stupid.

...Bethune has clearly stated he wouldn't be doing that with the Ady Gil (for obvious reasons) and would be taking a more stand-off approach.

That makes the Gil's actions triple stupid. You don't stand off directly in the path of a much larger, stronger vessel that can't maneuver as well as your vessel, unless you are trying to intentionally cause a collision.

[niceypoo]

61. Do you know anything about the mission of Sea Shepherd?

??

[slackmaster]

83. Yes

I disapprove of some of their tactics, which put human lives at risk.

[roody]

86. All civil rights struggles put human lives at risk.

[Oerdin]

65. I doubt the Japanese ship changed course.

Given the two videos, the Japanese one clearly shows the ship not changing course, while the Sea Shepard video clearly shows the camera angle changing but that can easily be explained that the ship with the camera on it is moving fairly quickly. The truth is Shepard is a liar, he's been caught in lies numerous times, and I don't trust liars. The man is an assclown and South Park had the right take on him.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

70. Boy you must REALLY not trust the whalers if you don't trust liars.

The whalers entire "research" mission is based on a gigantic lie - unless you are so gullible that you believe they are there taking whales for research?

Are you gullible or inconsistent?

[hmorehead]

74. It didn't change course, the planet did. Look again, the Maru changed course directely into it.

[slackmaster]

76. I think you are being fooled by camera trickery

The video that shows the Maru apparently changing course is itself in motion.

[hmorehead]

77. So much for sarcasm. The Maru changed course and purposly rammed the other boat.

[slackmaster]

79. It's not possible to determine their motive from any of the videos

Because they were to port of another vessel on a crossing course, turning to the right so as to go astern of the other vessel would have been the correct maneuver - Rule 15 states that a vessel in that situation is not pass ahead of the crossing vessel.

And actually, it worked. The Japanese ship did not go ahead of Ady Gil. It technically went through Ady Gil, but that was Ady Gil's fault for being too close and in the larger vessel's path.

In any case, it's not a big deal. Ady Gil suffered some damage, but they succeeded in their real goal which was to get publicity for their IMO just cause.

[hmorehead]

88. Occam would say the objective of running into someone was to run into them.

[mike_c]

7. that was a flat out ramming....

The whaler security ship maintained proximity in order to bring its water cannons to bear, then turned into the Ady Gil for the collision. Watch the video again. The Japanese ship makes no attempt to go astern of the Ady Gil, in fact, it turns away after the collision. It was a deliberate ramming.

[timefortherevolution]

14. I agree. The whaler veered sharply into the path of the Ady Gil.

[girl gone mad]

10. Looks like the Shonan Maru was at fault...

..maneuvered to hit the Ady Gil, not avoid.

[zeemike]

16. Even if deliberate?

The initial turn was toward the smaller boat and then they turned to port into the bow and away.
That looked deliberate to me.

[slackmaster]

20. The initial turn in the video may have been an effort to go astern of the smaller boat

Or it could be explained that way.

In accordance with Rule 15, which concerns vessels on crossing paths. Basically the vessel that has the other one on its starboard side is not to go ahead of the vessel on the starboard side. A right turn would have been the correct thing to do.

There's no way the Japanese vessel's insurance carrier is going to want to pay out on this one. The lawyers will have to figure it out.

[zeemike]

37. And that video will be a key piece of evidence.

And they will have to explain why the were shooting water canons at them if all the were doing was avoiding.

[1monster]

62. Check out this video from the Institute for Cetacean Research, Japan. www.icrwhale.org ...

The Ady Gil appears to be at full stop without engines running when the Japanese boat turned toward them and then rammed them.

Maybe the captain had just watched a vintage copy of PT109?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dXCR9LX-Kc&feature=related

[slackmaster]

80. That video CLEARLY shows that Ady Gil was under power at the last few moments

Look at the wake. The vessel was under power and moving forward. Why it was not steered to the right, I cannot say.

[1monster]

82. It looks to me like the Ady Gil barely got its engines started before the Shonan Maru

was right on top of them.

I counted it five or six time. From the time that the Ady Gil's wake came on full, it was just barely four seconds until the Shonan Maru hit them. And it was obvious that the Shonan Maru was gong to hit them before that, not matter what the Ady Gil did.

And that came from the whaling industries own video.

[slackmaster]

2. Wow, the Ady Gil really screwed the pooch

Law of Gross Tonnage

The law, which is more common sense then explicitly written in the code, goes like this: “The heavier vessel always has the right-of-way.”

This is based on simple Newtonian physics. Newton’s first law talks about objects in motion stay in motion unless another force is acted upon it. In other words, if a boat is moving a 5 mph east and you were in the vacuum of space, it would never stop traveling east at 5 mph. However, we all know when we stop our engine on our boat, we slow down.

How long it takes to go from 5 mph to zero, depends on wind, and current. Even if there was no wind or current, we’d still slow down, because the water itself provides friction upon the hull of the boat, and that in itself acts as a brake.

We all have, by observation found that the bigger the object, the longer it takes to slow down. Newton’s second law of physics talks about how the amount of force required to move an object is inversely proportional to the mass of the object.

So, if a tug and barge were traveling down a narrow channel, and you stopped your boat 1,000 feet away, right in front of the tug and barge; and, if the master of the tug saw you immediately; and if the master of the tug immediately began to stop the tug and barge; you’d have less than one minute to move your vessel.

Because if you didn’t move your vessel in less than 60 small seconds, the tug and barge would just run right over you. It would be impossible for the master of the tug to stop, based of the collective mass of both the vessel and the barge, in 1,000 feet.

The law of gross tonnage is un-relenting. It is a fact of life. What also is a fact of life, is that you should not depend on the master of the tug or any other large vessel is able to see you, either visually or on radar.

http://www.auxguidanceskills.info/press/bigger.html

[bc3000]

4. But does that also apply when the larger ship is bombarding the smaller ship with water cannons?

This isn't a simple right of way issue. The larger ship was in the act of attacking the smaller ship.

[slackmaster]

17. That doesn't change the rules of right-of-way but it does raise many questions

I'd like to see what happened during the three minutes or so before the start of the video.

[AtheistCrusader]

36. Particles going both ways.

Crew of the Ady Gil are shining a high powered laser at the bridge of the Shonan Maru.

[Dead_Parrot]

5. Large vessels are not allowed to ram smaller ones just because they're bigger

For pity's sake. I hope I never meet you on the water.

[zonkers]

11. I thought that was very agressive and showed no regard for human life.

[slackmaster]

15. The master of the Ady Gil showed a disregard for the lives of his crew

That's for sure.

[thunder rising]

28. I guess you never watced what Green Peace did with inflatables. Is mommy's basement warm and cozy?

[slackmaster]

32. Actually I support the goals of Sea Shepherd and am strongly opposed to whaling

Is mommy's basement warm and cozy?

My demographics are actually pretty similar to what you have posted in your profile. Too bad you are unable to continue this discussion without stooping to personal attacks.

[slackmaster]

13. In this case I don't believe the larger vessel could possibly have avoided the collision

It takes a looooong time for a ship that size to respond to the helm.

[mike_c]

18. then you weren't paying attention, or saw only what you wanted to see....

For pete's sake, you can see the ship respond to the helm on the video-- it turned into the Ady Gil just before the collision, continued on a collision course, then IMMEDIATELY turned away and proceeded across the Ady Gil's bow.

[slackmaster]

23. Ady Gil was intentionally steered into the path of the larger vessel

That is abundantly clear.

[thunder rising]

29. Thank you for your concern.

[mike_c]

33. you're either delusional or just making shit up....

Compare the longitudinal orientation of both vessels at the beginning of the video and at the time of impact. Unless the Ady Gil and the film platform (Sea Shepherd? Bob Barker?) moved in nearly exact concert around the bow of the whaling vessel, IT must have turned into the path of the Ady Gil, which it was actively attacking with water cannons at the time. Occam's razor and all that. It is far more likely that the Ady Gil and the film platform were semi-stationary with respect to one another, and the whaler turned to starboard to make the collision. You suggest that yourself, upthread, when you suggested that the whaler was trying to make way astern of the Ady Gil-- but that makes no sense in light of the starboard firing water cannons. A passage to the stern would have cut off the whaler's stern cannon.

I'm sorry, but there's no good way to spin this as anything other than a deliberate ramming.

[slackmaster]

38. That's completely ridiculous, Mike

Given the huge difference in displacement and maneuverability between the two vessels.

It is far more likely that the Ady Gil and the film platform were semi-stationary with respect to one another, and the whaler turned to starboard to make the collision.

Nope, they were on crossing paths with the Gil to the starboard of the larger vessel. Rule 15 applies.

[AtheistCrusader]

40. If you watch the other video, you can see the wake/propulsion of the Ady Gil kick up

as it accelerates forward, into the Shonan Maru's path. The pilot of the Ady Gil turned a close call into a collision. If the Gil had just remained stationary, probable no physical contact would have been made between the hulls. (though the water cannons would have been in range, and hitting hard)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

42. There is a fair amount of lag in the control system of larger ships

They are not sports cars in terms of response. What appears to be a turn to starboard into the Ady Gil was commanded earlier and could well have been an attempt to come in behind it. The later turn back to port turn into the Ady Gil was the result of realization there was a collision.

The other thing to consider is that the ships had been dancing for some time and the Ady Gil had passed the whaler and then stopped (stop and squat in automotive parlance). Watson (foolishly) confirm that. Under those circumstance the Ady Gil owns the accident.

The other data point that is still undetermined is if there was LOS from the bridge to Ady Gil.

More footage is coming as will be animations. There is most likely a bridge camera. There is also automatically recorded data to be reviewed, assuming it is going to be made available. Going to be interesting to see what comes.

[The Traveler]

19. Not these ships, buddy

Very agile ... like a frigate. They have to be or they would be pretty useless as harpoon platforms. And watch that baby break to port right after the collision! She is moving pretty fast by then, but yaws a good 15 to 20 degrees to port in half its length. Not bad.

The harpoon boats aren't that big. We aren't talking about some luggy cargo vessel. They are designed for speed and maneuverability for obvious reasons.

Trav

[Dead_Parrot]

21. Are you watching the same video?

You can see her swing to starboard then to port quite quickly. Whaling ships are built to be highly maneuverable - they have to be to fill their purpose.

[slackmaster]

25. The turn to the right would have been correct in attempt to comply with Rule 15

As others have stated, intent is not so clear from the video.

[Dead_Parrot]

30. Rubbish

The Gil was idling until about 5 seconds before impact (check the other video): The Maru started her turn about 10 seconds before. You can argue that the skipper of the Maru was drunk, insane or flat-out incompetent, but there's no way in you can claim it was a sane response to a collision threat.

[slackmaster]

35. Gil should have steered hard to the right several seconds before the collision

It was intentionally driven into the path of the larger vessel.

[Dead_Parrot]

44. She was idling in the water

Seriously, look at the other video: The Gil was hardly moving 10 seconds before impact. You're aware that boats don't have much maneuvering ability when not under power, I assume?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. It was an intentional stop and squat

critical misjudgment on the part of the Ady Gil. It was also the aggressor. The Ady Gil master will be toast in a maritime board of inquiry.

[slackmaster]

48. Go get me a can of relative bearing grease, then polish all the brass on the bridge

I see the Gil producing a strong wake just before the collision in this video.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Sea-Shepherd-Anti-Whaling-Boat-Sliced-in-Two-By-Japanese-Vessel-In-Antarctic-Waters/Article/201001115515153?lpos=World_News_News_Your_Way_Region_6&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15515153_Sea_Shepherd_Anti-Whaling_Boat_Sliced_in_Two_By_Japanese_Vessel_In_Antarctic_Waters

[Dead_Parrot]

51. Yeah, she started about 5 seconds before the collision

At which point the Maru was already bearing directly upon her. I really don't know how dumb you have to be not to see that.

[slackmaster]

52. It's unfortunate that you are not able to discuss this without stooping to personal attack

:hi:

You and I probably agree a lot more than we disagree on the subject of whaling, and on the goals if not the tactics of Sea Shepherd.

[Dead_Parrot]

55. Fair enough

...and my apologies for the tone.
:hi:
But surely you see that steering towards a vessel not under way is hardly collision avoidance.

[slackmaster]

57. I don't agree with your assessment that Ady Gil was not underway

It looks that way from the perspective of the Sea Shepherd's video, because that was taken from a vessel that was in motion toward the right. I believe it was traveling in an arc that-a-way --->

[Dead_Parrot]

59. I'm going by the wake

Agreed it's tricky to judge motion from the videos since everything's moving, but the point where Gil's screws start churning is quite distinct.

[thunder rising]

31. Thank you for your concern.

[hmorehead]

78. Rule 15 doesn't answer the concerns of operating so close. The Maru had no chance of crossing the

stern of the boat it so purposely hit. Besides rule 15 chas to with not crossing the bow of a boat under sail.

[slackmaster]

81. Nobody was under sail - the incident involved two motor-powered vessels

The Japanese vessel DID manage to avoid crossing ahead of Ady Gil. If the apparent turn to the right was done in order to avoid violating Rule 15, it was successful.

The whole situation would never have happened had Ady Gil not been intentionally harassing the larger vessel.

[hmorehead]

89. No shit. Thats just one reason why Rule 15 doesn't apply, Capt Obvious.

[dashrif]

9. Yes

just like I give right of way to tractor trailers and trains too as not to be put in for a darwin award

[Dead_Parrot]

12. And run over cyclists in your SUV, I assume. nt

[dashrif]

73. I

dont have one so I have to open the door on my mid size 4 door to get them :eyes:


edit: for spelling as I did not get it the first time round

[thunder rising]

27. Delibarately impairing the vision of the pilot with water cannons set the stage. It was an attack

all else is consequential.

The fact that the Japanese boat corrected it's coarse to make contact makes this a ramming.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

47. The Ady Gil was the agressor and placed itself in harms way

That water cannons were in use to repel it is inconsequential

[girl gone mad]

39. Can you close bold somewhere in there? That's just unreadable.

:wow:

[slackmaster]

41. Done

Thanks.

[Oerdin]

66. Excellent

"The law of gross tonnage is un-relenting. It is a fact of life. What also is a fact of life, is that you should not depend on the master of the tug or any other large vessel is able to see you, either visually or on radar."

Especially when you deliberately are using a low profile speed boat painted with anti-radar paint.

[bertman]

8. It's difficult to tell for sure because the filming vessel seems to be moving to the right,

BUT, it looks like the Shonan Maru turns hard to starboard (right) just before it strikes the Ady Gil, then turns hard to port after the strike.

Any of you nautical experts out there care to weigh in?

[The Traveler]

22. Watch angle on the bow

The camera point of view is at a good range, so motion of the camera platform contributes relatively little. Watch the bows of the two vessels ... Ady Gil's bow angle changes very little during the scene. Well, it changes suddenly at the moment of impact. :evilgrin:

[slackmaster]

26. Not only moving to the right, but the camera is never held level

It's very hard to tell what is really going on. The video from the large ship's perspective is more useful.

BUT, it looks like the Shonan Maru turns hard to starboard (right) just before it strikes the Ady Gil...

I agree, and that is exactly what it should have done in effort to comply with Rule 15 - Not go ahead of Ady Gil.

[thunder rising]

34. Thank you for your concern.

[GliderGuider]

43. Your position is getting thin.

The Shonan Maru demonstrates its maneuverability in this video, so any move its captain made was deliberate. The move to starboard doesn't appear to me to have been an attempt to obey Rule 15, as the engagement was already way (all cannons firing, etc.). The Gil appeared to be far enough away from the Shonan Maru, and did not appear to be under way, so a turn to port would have been more prudent if collision avoidance was the goal. You're grasping at straws here. There was no intent to avoid the collision, the intent was to run the Gil down like a dog in the street and teach that upstart Watson a lesson. It may have backfired on the Japanese.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

49. Are you sure there was LOS from the bridge?

Also even very maneuverable boats have control lag. Ady Gil did a stop and squat. Its master owns the consequences

[GliderGuider]

53. Are you sure there wasn't?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

56. Its a question being heavily debated on maritime forums

The Ady Gil is very low to the water in moderate seas with limited visibility. Its one of the bigger questions being asked. One can not avoid what you can not see. Its one of the reasons small boats do not always have right of way. I expect there will be models and animations out soon. Another point is the responsiveness or lag in the control systems. The harpoon boats are reasonably agile, but they are not sports cars.

The opinion is nearly universal that the Ady Gil owns the collision since they were doing a stop and squat.

[Truth2Tell]

63. Got some links for us

to these maritime forums with the nearly universal opinions?

[Truth2Tell]

87. I didn't think so. nt

[Dead_Parrot]

60. Even if there wasn't, the helm should still have been aware.

Rule 5:

Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule0405.htm

I think it clear at least some of the crew knew where the Gil was: If they were too busy playing with the cannons to maintain situational awareness on the bridge, that's technically the captain's problem.

If the helm wasn't aware where the GIl was, why the change of course?

[slackmaster]

50. The Gil was clearly underway just before the collision - look at the wake in this video

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Sea-Shepherd-Anti-Whaling-Boat-Sliced-in-Two-By-Japanese-Vessel-In-Antarctic-Waters/Article/201001115515153?lpos=World_News_News_Your_Way_Region_6&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15515153_Sea_Shepherd_Anti-Whaling_Boat_Sliced_in_Two_By_Japanese_Vessel_In_Antarctic_Waters

The Gil had steerage and should have turned hard to the right to avoid a collision. It didn't.

[AtheistCrusader]

45. Not hard to starboard, but somewhat.

The video from the deck of the Shonan Maru certainly shows some movement toward the Ady Gil, but not much. Enough to put it well within water cannon range of the then-stationary Ady Gil. About 5 seconds before the impact, the engines on the Ady Gil are thrown full or flank speed, and it moves FORWARD into the direct path of the Shonan Maru.

If the Ady Gil had remained stationary, or gone into reverse, at all, it is likely no contact would have been made.

[bertman]

67. I think you're correct about the movements of Shonan Maru and the engines on Ady Gil being

throttled up just before the collision. Maybe the captain of the Ady Gil was giving it the juice in an attempt to swing hard to starboard to avoid what he realized was an inevitable collision. Or maybe I'm just trying to put the best face on it.

I realize that these whalers are more nimble than most bigger vessels but I think the captain of Ady Gil screwed up by being too close and maybe even by moving into the path of the whaler. More knowledgeable persons than I will figure this out and let us know.

Thanks for your info.

[Truth2Tell]

64. It's also disturbing

that the Japanese vessel continues to spray its water cannon after the collision. Clearly the Ady Gil was badly damaged and could even have potentially been going down. It certainly posed no more threat to anyone. To continue to hose the occupants seems borderline attempted murder under those circumstances.

[girl gone mad]

68. That's a good point.

Very bad judgment on the part of the Japanese crew.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

69. In the SSCS provided video its clear that the cannons were fixed in position and unattended

Bad form but it does not look like they were targeting.

My current view is that the collision was unintended by both parties. Right after the collision that no one shutdown the canons is not surprisings. It would be a pretty busy time aboard both vessels.

[Truth2Tell]

71. You're right. When I watch the other video,

it appears they just pass though a fixed stream of water, not that they were targeted.

[AtheistCrusader]

72. Yeah, it takes an overt act to shut them off.

The crew was probably just hanging onto stuff, back safely from the railings. You tend to do that when a ship collides with anything.

[Devil_Fish]

85. wrong watch again, the cannon in front changes angle. NT

[Devil_Fish]

84. I agree. MOB is a life threatening situation, especially if your vessel is disabled.

using a water cannon in an attempt to knock the crew of of a disabled vessel is atempted man slaughter at least.