TYT comments on skinny and plus-sized models (Ihavenobias's first appearance!)

[ProfessorPlum]

Run time: 07:29 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77vWgaTZX5M   Posted on YouTube: January 09, 2010 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: January 11, 2010 By DU Member: ProfessorPlum Views on DU: 7083

 
Congratulations, Tom!

[spiritual_gunfighter]

1. Great first appearance Tom

You made a great and what seems like a totally obvious point.

[Lorien]

2. Thanks Tom! This normal sized woman

(who is built like the "plus sized" woman on the right of the lineup) appreciates your commentary. :hi:

[rainlillie]

68. As someone who is naturally thin, I too consider myself "normal sized."

[Warpy]

3. Oh, Tom, size 14 is the actual average in this country

and that is considered plus size. Face it, you've been indoctrinated by the fashion designers just like most other males and favor skinny women, although you reject the absolute starvelings.

However, things are changing. In times of scarcity the standard of beauty always shifts to the unattainable, too, and voluptuous women suddenly become desirable. That might be a little of what we're seeing now.

However, I find it grotesque that a six foot tall woman who wears a size fourteen is considered plus size when that size number indicates she's actually rather thin for her height.

[Captain Hilts]

14. Average woman's waist size is 34 inches.

[jgraz]

27. So what Tom is saying is he prefers women who are in slightly better-than-average shape.

What guy doesn't?

Considering the average American male has a waistline around 39 inches, I'm guessing most women prefer men in the same sort of shape.

[Warpy]

29. Better? Only thinner.

That's the problem with designer brainwashing.

Women were designed to be padded, the fat reserves being necessary to surviving childbearing when food was scarce.

Thinner is not better. It's only thinner.

[jgraz]

32. Except we're no longer in a situation where food is scarce.

In our modern society, signs of cardiovascular health and body strength have come to be viewed as more attractive. Most men I know use many factors to determine attractiveness (including intelligence, emotional depth and sense of humor, all of which have little bearing on reproductive health).

Unless you're saying that the only relevant measure of a woman's attractiveness is how well-suited her body is to cranking out babies...

[Warpy]

33. Wow, just wow

Some will do anything to justify their prejudices.

[jgraz]

35. Up to and including the use of common sense.

Are you telling me that you have NO appearance preferences in your choice of partners? None?

What? You don't find Karl Rove attractive? Wow, just wow... Talk about prejudiced.

[Enrique]

4. I think "keeping it real" is overrated

even if Cenk doesn't find some of the models attractive, I don't think there's any need for him to say it.

[debbierlus]

7. Considering that Cenk looks like kind of a big guy, he should probably keep his mouth shut

The double standard is gross.

[ihavenobias]

13. Considering he pokes fun at his own weight on a regular basis

it's not a double standard.

And if you asked Cenk if he'd make a good model, he'd laugh just as hard as you would.

:)

[jgraz]

38. Yeah. I doubt he'd ever refer to a woman as a "fat ass"

something he calls himself almost daily.

[debbierlus]

39. Interesting then, that he said that he wouldn't be interested in any of these 'chubby' women

I see.

So, women are just suppossed to accept overweight men as a reality but the overweight men will put women on their show and judge them as unfit for them.

It is a complete double standard. Accept me for being overweight, but I won't do the same?

[ihavenobias]

42. No, not at all.

I don't get it, is he supposed to pretend he's attracted to them just because he falls into the same weight class? If someone is short, are they only allowed to be attracted to other short people? And if they only like to date tall people, are they holding a double standard? Same with tall people, rich people, etc.

He's not asking anyone to "accept" him, that's why he pokes fun at his appearance on a regular basis. Also, in this very video at one point he says something to the effect of how he was attracted to two of the women but quickly added that (in effect) they may well not be attracted to him. I assume you know what I'm referring to.

[nyc 4 Biden]

5. ihavenobias FTW!

good job tom!

[debbierlus]

6. That was totally pathetic

Three of the four women didn't look plus size

They went on about how they should hire 'normal size' models ie thin with curves in all the right places.

And, basically talked about the heavier women as some weird extreme when in fact she is closer to the 'norm' (size 14) then any of the other three.

It was surreal. This just reinforces how entrenched society is against any woman over a fucking size 8.

Cenk, lost some respect for you here.

[Captain Hilts]

15. Kind of like how the Dove models didn't look very large either. nt

[debbierlus]

40. I am inbetween the heaviest and skinnest one and I do not enjoy

Having my body profile judged on a 'liberal' radio show as to what would or wouldn't suit the men on that show...

Who the hell do they think they are?

I found the whole segment offensive. Where do these men get off? And, normal is a size 14 to reiterate.

[ihavenobias]

43. No one was judging you personally

Look, I used to be VERY fat. I was teased mercilessly from about the age of 6 to about the age of 14, and to this day that has an impact on my confidence at times, even though I lost the weight (I fluctuate). So my goal isn't to hurt feelings or offend. At the same time I'm not going to hide my opinions.

I believe in trying to be healthy. That may or may not lead to an ideal body as judged by others, but so be it. The whole point was that if the industry insists on ideals, emaciated is not ideal in the minds of the majority. You can argue that what I'm suggesting is still unrealistic for most and that's fine, but it IS still an industry and they're still going to try and market what is probably 'above average' or 'unrealistic' to most people. My point is that they can make things a little more realistic and healthy and still be marketable.

But yes, generally speaking, having people expertly done up with amazing hair, clothes, make-up, personal trainers and dietitians, not to mention lighting and airbrushing creates distorted images and raises the beauty bar to absurd, imaginary levels. Same with men. The entertainment/fashion industry picks people that already have what most consider to be naturally good looks and they enhance them to absurd levels with all of those things I previously mentioned, for both women AND men. And that's not even getting into unrealistic portrayals of things like love and romance that we see on tv and movies...

[CherylK]

56. +1

:toast:

[JTFrog]

65. So you don't think the women in those photos are healthy?

Based on what? Your ideal of the perfectly fit body that has been sold to you by sports and food companies?

Stigma? Really? :eyes:

Cenk was disgusting.

Personally I won't be watching any more of these segments where you guys don't "hide your opinions" that are demeaning to women, but congrats on the new job.

[MedfordTim]

48. "Who the hell do they think they are?"

You answered it yourself - MEN.

See, we have a gene which makes us desire a ratings system in whatever we do. There ALWAYS has to be a winner, didnchaknow?

Just remember this segment the next time you check out some guys abs or pecs...

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sheldon]

59. 14 is normal if you eat garbage. (standard american diet)

It doesn't have to be this way. Eat living foods and watch the pounds disappear.
My wife went from a size 12 to a size 2 in 8 months, simply by changing her eating habits.

[SouthernLiberal]

74. Not true!

I could lose all the weight in the world, and have zero body fat, and I would never be a size 2, or even a size 12. Once, I actually lost not only all excess weight, but every bit of body fat I could. I had no curves, and I looked like one of those starving models, and I was a size 14. Like anyone else, I have a minimum skeletal size, and no change in diet will get me into a smaller size. So, if someone is a natural size 2, yes, a better diet will get them there. But for me, my best, and healthiest size is 16.

The models that we were told could not be plus size because of the way they look, may very well be like me, 'plus size' even when underweight. I don't know what size they wore, because you can't tell by looking. Although I do know some places that consider size 10 'plus size'.

[ihavenobias]

75. His comment was overly simplistic.

The only thing I'll add (as someone who used to be obese) is that weight training is a must for anyone cutting calories. If someone is big without much shape, if they only cut calories and or only cut calories and do cardio, they'll just be a softer, smaller version of the same thing. Bodybuilders refer to this as "skinny fat".

It's also partly why so called "skinny" people can be plenty out of shape and unhealthy. You know, they have naturally high metabolisms and or low appetites so they eat junk and barely exercise. They assume not being overweight makes them healthy but often times that's not the case.

[JTFrog]

66. +1

I finally agree with you on something.

[travelingtypist]

62. This.

Cenk couldn't conceal his distaste for the Reubenesque nude. And this from a guy looking like he looks. Cenk is totally a beer-glasses take-home if you ask me.

[RedCloud]

8. I liked the shoe model the best! Oh baby and I don't mean maybe!

I guess I like shoes on women.

[Plucketeer]

9. I LIKE a gal with some extra on her torso!

I always have and I always will. It's probably one reason I'm happily wed! Thanks Tom!

[sheldon]

10. Obesity is an epidemic.

Of course these fatties are "normal". Fat is where it's at now.
Skinny people are the new freaks.....

[me b zola]

24. Fear and hatred of women is epidemic

"Fatties"? I think that men who are afraid of real women have tiny penises.

[sheldon]

58. Yeah, they're fat.

Calling fat people "real" or "normal" or whatever, only contributes to the ignorance that is at the root of the problem.

[me b zola]

77. And men who have tiny penises aren't kidding anybody

That's why they like the bony women, so if they could only get layed they can manage to get their itty-bitty in em. :D

[sheldon]

79. I'm sorry you're fat

You should learn to eat better instead of making excuses for yourself.

[me b zola]

80. I'm glad that you are advertising your tiny penis

It will women know to run the other way. :rofl:

[liquid diamond]

54. I agree to a point.

It's pathetic how women that watch their diet are demonized for not having curves. Sounds pretty hypocritical. Anyway, I'd rather be very thin than very fat.

[izquierdista]

11. There's gay men in the fashion industry??

Well, Gollee!!

[Rhiannon12866]

12. K&R for ihavenobias!!!

Though he certainly deserved better subject matter... :crazy:

[veganlush]

16. the problem is, as an obese nation, we are moving the goal posts

...to fit our lifestyle. Obesity, like type two diabetes, is almost like a lifestyle choice. According to the World Health Organization, which has the world's biggest database on disease and causes of death, obesity is defined as 20% or more above your ideal body weight.

The huge amount of stats from doctors and autopsies world-wide shows the link between health problems, premature death and obesity. Many Americans are obese and don't even know it. If you are over-weight, chances are very good that you are obese.

[ihavenobias]

18. That's a fair point.

If we're the fattest country on earth (speaking as someone who was clinically obese for many years in my youth), why should we trumpet the "average" waist size as something to aspire to? That's not a very healthy standard. It's "realistic" in the context of overeating junk foods and living a sedentary lifestyle, but again, it's not healthy.

My point was that there's a middle ground between size 0-8 and 16+ (or 22+ or whatever the line is). And I'm not talking about every day life in this video, I'm talking about fashion models. Another point people are missing is that the models in the V Magazine shoot are still airbrushed, as far as I know. Although interestingly there has been a (very) small number of people willing to go un-airbrushed on magazine covers.

[Captain Hilts]

19. Yes. That's true - but look at the standards women are held to. Really REALLY skinny.

Look at Lady Gaga, Taylor Smith, Madonna, and Kesha. Not a spare pound on any of them.

[ihavenobias]

20. To a point, but some go over the top

For example, most people seem to think Madonna went way too far with diet/exercise. Just Google the following - Madonna arms - and you'll see what I mean.

Plenty of people in entertainment know that hips, breasts and non-stick-like arms are very popular, in fact more popular. Beyonce, Salma Hayek, Scarlett Johansson. Now, they also have beautiful faces and proportion, but that's symmetry (not to mention stylists for hair, make-up, clothing and of course air-brushing and lighting) and about as deeply rooted as anything can be. And hey, every time I see a men's magazine I see six-pack abs, a cut jaw, expensive, unaffordable clothing. The gap has has narrowed considerably over the last decade or two, but yes, obviously there is still more pressure on women to look a certain way, no question.

[Captain Hilts]

21. It's interesting also - looking at 'popular' culture - how it's a 'white' thing. Again...

look at the top ten women on the billboard.com website. They're little skinny blond-haired white girls under 25 or older black women who have some body fat. As a white, non-blond who is bulky Susan Boyle fits into none of the categories. Beyonce and Boyle could beat the crap out of the other 8 in the top ten.

It's weird. I follow women's athletics and there are great looking, fit women out there that are not skinny and are not overweight. I think that's why seeing women so thin or so fat catches my eye. Neither is a good standard.

Did you see the ESPN Magazine's 'body' issue with photographs of a lot of scantily clad athletes? It was really interesting.

In reality, we're all supposed to look like soccer players - some body fat, but a bit rangy.

[ihavenobias]

28. Yeah, I saw that ESPN issue.

And it was interesting.

[zoff]

72. I appreciate the soccer player analogy,

if only for my personal bias. Looking at female soccer players from high school to the national level, I have seen less spindly/rangy body types, unlike with the men. Regardless, both genders have some of the lowest body fat readings.

[PassingFair]

22. Either way, the more non-emaciated, non-"perfect" airbrushed women you see...

the more you will find variance from the "norm" attractive.

Kudos to that magazine for showcasing larger women!

[OhioChick]

17. Great first appearance, Tom!

Good commentary, as well. :thumbsup:

[democracy1st]

23. K & R Tom

[JDPriestly]

25. The worst is that these models and the clothes designed for thme

look awful on Baby Boomer and Senior women (like me).

I'm really short, and I haven't gained nearly as much weight as most women my age, but even I no longer have the 21-inch waist that I had when I was 17.

These skinny models and the clothes designed for them to wear are of no interest to a vast number of us women.

Next time you see a heavy-set 50-year-old woman with a roll of fat peeking out from the top of her low-cut blue jeans at the mall, ask yourself where she was supposed to find blue jeans or maybe some more attractive alternative to blue jeans that would fit her at the waste and drape so as to de-emphasize her voluptuous body.

The super-skinny models aren't just unrealistic and ugly. They promote false expectations that older women cannot meet without starving themselves.

I will bet that, if you look at your mother's wedding picture and you look at her now, provided that she is healthy, she has gained at least a little weight somewhere. That's normal. Your dad has probably gained weight too. Even if you exercise every day, you will still gain a little weight. Your metabolism slows as you age. It's just nature.

I think that if the magazines started using normal-sized models, designers would create clothes that older women could wear. That would be a wonderful first step toward eliminating some of the negative attitudes toward older women, some of the age discrimination, in this country. And it probably would increase the sales of women's clothes.

As an older, very short woman who wears a small size, I try to make my own clothes as much as possible. I just can't find clothing I like in the stores -- not for a price I can pay. And I haven't bought a fashion magazine in maybe 20 years.

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

26. Nice work Tom

[20score]

30. Looks like you are going to make a great commentator, Tom! K&R.

[mzmolly]

31. Nice job Tom!

:toast:

[Wilber_Stool]

34. Gentlemen,

watch this vid.

[Kajsa]

36. Congrats, Tom!

You did " knock it out of the park"!
What a great intro. :D

This is important, especially for young girls
literally dying to look like emaciated fashion
models.

I'm glad TYT covered this topic.

A big K&R!

:)

[PatrynXX]

37. well according to Sydney Moon's tweet, she's on tonight

I wouldn't call her skinny. but she's a great centerfold :) Cenk seems to love her. Gosh I hope they don't become a couple :) oh what the hell. lol

[burning rain]

41. Fat is largely normal in the US....

so having models all be fit or really skinny is quite unrepresentative of the US population as a whole.

[Hamlette]

44. both of the men in this clip piss me off

wonder why women are obsessed with size?

Cenk and Tom tell us. They are obsessed with size (one wants skinny, one wants "just right" neither look at the beautiful faces to say nothing of personality.)

I keep trying Cenk. And I try to be open minded, but he's a simpleton.

Once again.

[ihavenobias]

45. Personality?

It was a magazine shoot for fashion models. How would one determine personality in that context?

Also, couldn't someone with your train of thought just as easily be criticized for praising so called "beautiful faces" on people who've likely been done over with experts for their hair, make-up, lighting and air-brushing to cover up perceived imperfections while exaggerating perceived strengths? After all, while there is clearly a genetic component with weight, there is a far more relevant genetic determinism with regard to facial features. So it's even less realistic that someone could change their face to be "beautiful" in this context, versus being able to change body shape to some extent through diet and exercise.

[uberllama42]

57. Man, I don't know why people are jumping down your throat over this

I don't think anything you said was offensive.

I don't approve of the way our culture deals with body weight and diet--I used to be underweight myself. I have OCD, which was really bad when I was in high school. Most of my ritual behaviors manifested around food and exercise. As someone who used to be pathologically obsessed with food, I am the last person who will carry water for our ridiculous cultural standards.

But you and Cenk have the right to be attracted to whomever you find attractive. I find skinny girls more attractive than girls carrying around a few extra pounds. But that doesn't mean I have some crazy and unrealistic standard, or that I go around saying pernicious things about people who are overweight. My three closest friends at school are all women in the "few extra pounds" category, but I'd definitely date any one of them. But I still tend to consider skinny women more attractive. That's not some kind of wacked-out shallow attitude.

Congrats on your job with the Young Turks, by the way.

[Hamlette]

69. agreed

my comment about personalities and faces was stupid

and so were your reactions on the clip

I'll give you that Cenk's were worse.

My advice: don't go there.

Comment on politics, not looks.

[MedfordTim]

49. So...women are obsessed because MEN are obsessed?

Maybe women need to stop basing their self-worth on what us Neanderthals think or say? A possibility, maybe?

As if women didn't judge men superficially.

This subject always brings out the crazy in people.

I, for one, am ecstatic that it has nothing to do with Australia....

[Divine Discontent]

61. I believe they said they looked beautiful. I'm sure they meant their pretty faces. Modeling is

a bit pretentious anyways. And a simpleton??? Please, that's so overboard. B*sh is a simpleton.

[AlbertCat]

46. Corsets! Bring back corsets!

Western women wore them for centuries! I like the 18th century shape personally (a sort of inverted cone shape, not the hour glass shape of the 19th century)


This has nothing to do with the fact that I make corsets.


No... really...



:yoiks:

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[icee]

50. I think skinnier women are more popular with younger men, then when

they get older, bigger women are good. Skinny women look better in their clothes, plus their underwear don't leave crease marks. Amorously, I don't think it makes much difference. I thought the naked woman was a little jumbo. The three woman on the right in the group shot were normal, about twelves; the one on the far left was a fourteen. I didn't think any of them were attractive. Nor do I think Scarlett Johansen is attractive. I think beauty is from within, and it overtakes most of what is without. I used to work with all those pretty women when I was an extra in Hollywood. They were not so pretty when you conversed with them. Agnetha was attractive no matter what her size, as is Kathryn Heigl. I think skinny women got more popular from the late seventies on when men were picking up girls at bars. Skinnier women earned men a higher point count.

[AlbertCat]

51. the late seventies on when men were picking up girls at bars

Men didn't pick up women in bars until the 70's???? Huh.

What one gets in the 70's is the natural look....no bras, no girdles or merry widows (a corset). I worked in display in the 70's and fiberglass mannequins had nipples for the 1st time (one of the store managers used to put band aids over them so they wouldn't show through silk blouses :eyes: which I would promptly remove) It's the removal of artificial enhancers than made women starve themselves even more than before. But fashion is not of the real world. This skinny thing actually starts in the late 60's...Twiggy anyone? That's the youth movement of the '60's...when teenagers ruled. '50's models have cinched in waists and flaring hips, provided by artificial means. But they are still skinny and dieted.

[icee]

53. I couldn't remember. Been a long time since I was bar shopping. I

met my wife in a bar. Seven days later we got married. This March 9 will make 40 years.

[FlaGranny]

64. Marilyn was NOT skinny.

:-)

[pleah]

52. K&R Well done, Tom!

:hi:

[Divine Discontent]

60. damn damn damn! Tom's straight... I'm heartbroken! LOL, just jokin' with ya. Good job, man.

Modeling is a sore subject. I 'lost' a great friend to the modeling world, who never came back. His ego went through the fricking ceiling, he started getting wild, and then he went all closed-minded bigot on me to boot, of course, it was okay for him to get oral from the females in the industry and do drugs. All the models (both sexes) I met, but one, were so self-centered I thought they were the most hateful people I'd ever seen, and still do. So, hey, if this somehow starts a revolution, and all those skinny models somehow lose some work, that'd be great!

Good to see ya on the vid. Relax, you did fine! haha

[Enthusiast]

63. Ya done good, Tom!

And besides, you're even correct.

[JTFrog]

67. K&U

That ugly stick obviously got inside Cenk's head.

[onlyadream]

70. If that women walked into Cenk's office

a real live woman with a smile on her face, a sense of humor, intelligent - he would be interested (if he was still in the market). A still life is one dimensional and people aren't.

[20score]

71. Please correct me if I'm wrong Tom, but I think this illustrates perfectly what you were talking

about:

http://crooksandliars.com/nonny-mouse/battle-bilge

[ihavenobias]

73. Those pics at the top of the page illustrate my point perfectly. n/t

[southpaw]

76. I've felt guilty for thinking that Cenk is a bit of a hosebag

Not anymore.

[Kalentros]

78. *picks up jaw*

Please. Those "plus sized" models were two words: DAMN HOT!

I may be biased but but if she's what the fashionistas consider right then I'm too scared to bother. A woman doesn't have some curves one thing pops to mind: "One good thrust and I'm going to break her".

That may not be politically correct, but when it comes to the testosterone induced thinking...what is?