Thom Hartmann - Would you pay $7 a gallon for gas if it would save the planet?

[thomhartmann]

Run time: 06:58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMcbY5Eh8BM   Posted on YouTube: March 05, 2010 By YouTube Member: thomhartmann Views on YouTube: 14   Posted on DU: March 05, 2010 By DU Member: thomhartmann Views on DU: 1042

 
The Thom Hartmann Program can be heard daily M-F 12-3pm ET. Visit www.thomhartmann.com to listen live, join the community or purchase a podcast.

[mikelgb]

1. No but I think that is the point

[twiceshy]

2. Ya think the economy sucks now?

Try $7 gasoline, unemployment would be 30%. Ecology is a nice luxury when your economy is running on all cylinders.

[gateley]

3. I heard him do this on the radio -- I flip flop.

[Crowman1979]

4. Well if an adequate mass transit system nationwide and I only needed to drive across more than..

...100 miles only 3 times a year or less. Then I would be in favor of that $7 per gallon gas.

[Liberal Gramma]

6. You get it.

We need mass transportation. Build more light rail, fewer highways.

[florida08]

5. Thom

I heard this yesterday and almost fell off my chair. With all the corruption in Washington do you believe we could actually trust them to use this revenue for what you propose? Hells bells social security isn't safe from their hands you think they would worry one iota about saving the planet? I'm a fan but have to run from this one.

[Ozymanithrax]

7. Yes...

and gladly.

But I live under the assumption that the planet is important enough to save.

[azul]

8. Or would you pay $20/lb for beef or pork to save the world?

The answer to both, frighteningly enough, is, me me me.



"Hide your wives and daughters, hide the groceries too
The great nations of europe comin through"
-Randy Newman

[Silent3]

9. How many times?

Will paying $7 for a gallon once or twice do the trick?

Aw, hell, I'll buy hundred gallons at that price if all it does is save Australia! :)

[RollWithIt]

10. $7 a gallon would effectively wreck the economy... so no... the answer isn't price

It's alternative. Like electric. Of course, mass electric will require more nuclear plants (which I approve of) but that is another argument.

[reggie the dog]

16. Why hasnt this price wrecked the economy of Europe

Germany, France, the UK, the Netherlands all pay between six and seven us dollars the gallon already

[truedelphi]

18. because in Europe the average working stiff doesn't fork over

Fifteen to twenty percent of the pay check for health insurance premiums, for dental and for vision care.

Like we do here.

Of course, our politicians keep telling us how good we have it - lower taxes than in Europe (they are careful not to mention that the European tax code affects the wealthy far more than here, and that people pay VAT taxes on luxury items, not on food and over the counter pain pills, and the European tax code is not regressively hitting up the middle incomed peon.)

But since the Political Class already holds these arguments in place, don't be surprised if they do get around to having $ 7 a gallon gasoline.

And they will probably use the lame excuse that this will be good for the planet, though what would really be good for the planet is sensible alternative policies. Already the EPA is designed to penalize the "alt" car builders whose vehicles run on non-petroleum fuels.

[LatteLibertine]

11. IMO any price hiking to "save the world"

would go into the pockets of robber barons and the ruling class.

There are people with plenty of power and wealth who could lead reforms if they chose to do so.

[reggie the dog]

17. taxes

most of what I pay at the pump in france is tax which goes to my social welfare state..... just sayin, so I drive cars that get either 40 mpg expressway or 55 mpg on slower highways for our station wagon or the other 5 seater car that is always in the 55 to 60 mpg range...

[haele]

12. I hate to be selfish, but now that I have a scooter to commute to work on -

No I wouldn't mind. That would make what I pay a week for gas on the scooter the same as what I now pay a week for gas on the car.
Now, as for paying for the gas for the car, I would mind, but I'd still do it if that was my only option. I'd certainly make sure there was a more serious adjustment to the family driving habits than there is now to keep the car fuel expenditure down to under $60 a week; as it is, other than the increasingly frequent medical appointments, we do far better than we did a couple years ago.

If the price did get up to $7 a gallon, I'd hope that, like in other industrial countries where it's the equivalent to $1.50/$2.50 a liter, there would be some better transportation and infrastructure options available to offset the urban sprawl problem we have in SoCal.

The main problem would be the rise in cost of food and other items that are purchased. That would be the killer cost that would need to be addressed far more seriously than what we would pay for our personal vehicles; that's the one we don't have a choice on.

Haele

[winyanstaz]

13. umm nope...I would start saving up for a horse....

[reggie the dog]

15. why not just drive a smaller car like in the UK

where gas is ALREADY 7 US dollars a gallon....

[winyanstaz]

20. because the whole oil based economy is killing our planet...and us..

we need to stop using it.
And until they develop more alternative non polluting energy sources..a nice horse can get you around and support your local farmer.
A bicycle is also good.

[reggie the dog]

21. I bike across the countryside to towns ten miles away

to visit friends all the time.

[meeshrox]

22. I was hoping someone would mention that...

The reasons it's "cheap" here are the influence with OPEC and the subsidies to oil companies the US has...if we got rid of the subsidies, the oil companies would have to charge more...

IMO, the subsidies that goes to the oil companies from our taxes should be part of the cost-per-gallon calculation...THEN Americans would have a REAL shitfit!

[meeshrox]

23. A little blurb from the Union of Concerned Scientists with a link...

Subsidizing Big Oil (1995)
Drawn from the 1995 UCS report "Money Down the Pipeline: The Hidden Subsidies to the Oil Industry"

There is growing awareness in this country that the full cost of using oil for transportation is "subsidized" -- that is, gasoline prices paid by consumers do not reflect the full economic cost to society. The true cost is hidden by myriad direct and indirect public subsidies, which include

reduced corporate income taxes for the oil industry

lower than average sales taxes on gasoline

government funding of programs that primarily benefit the oil industry and motorists

"hidden" environmental costs caused by motor vehicles, namely air, water, and noise pollution

This hidden system of oil subsidies has created an energy policy by default—a policy that is actually the reverse of stated national priorities. Oil industry subsidies further our dangerous dependence on foreign oil supplies and burden taxpayers with unacceptable costs to human health, the environment, and the economy. In the 1990s, oil imports equaled almost half of US oil consumption and half of the trade deficit. The situation is likely to worsen with US refineries running at full capacity and all of the remaining inexpensive oil reserves lying outside US borders. This de facto energy policy also discourages private investments in new, cleaner technologies such as electric vehicles. Furthermore, hidden subsidies waste taxpayer dollars by undermining government programs to promote fuel efficiency, alternative fuels, and environmental protection.

more:
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/vehicle_impacts/cars_pickups_and_suvs/subsidizing-big-oil.html

[reggie the dog]

14. I pay six us dollars already

or about 1 euro 10 cents a litre....

[icee]

19. No. That additional money would go right into the hands of the

oil companies, banksters and crooked politicians.

[DFW]

24. It doesn't have to. It doesn't here in Europe.

Of the $7+ a US gallon we pay here in Europe, at least 80% of that is in taxes. In Germany, you even pay tax on a tax.
The price of the gasoline is hit with a huge "mineral oil tax," and then VAT is added onto the whole sum of gas plus
the oil tax, so you pay 19% of the oil tax AGAIN in taxes. The oil companies don't get any more here than they do in the USA.

[icee]

25. The US is not Europe. Once you understand the tax revenue

stream in this country, you would understand where the money would ultimately end up. I understand what you are trying to say though.

[Juche]

26. How much revenue would that raise

We use 140 billion gallons of gas and about 40 billion of diesel. So if you add in $4 in taxes per gallon, that is $720 billion a year in revenue.

I'd pay it, but the problem is multiple.

1. It would cause economic damage
2. It is a regressive tax
3. Does it take that much money


I could be wrong on part 3, but $720 billion can fund subsidies and matches from private industry and individuals can equate to well over a trillion a year in spending on alternative energy.

I haven't read the paper Hartmann references. But I think a 1000MW nuclear plant costs about $5 billion (expensive due to construction and regulation issues). And I believe 100 of those plants could provide 20% of our grid energy (we currently have about 103 plants producing 20% of our energy). So you could build an extra 200 nuclear plants, pretty much wipe out all the coal plants in the US for 1 trillion, the money raised in one year from this tax. You'd have 60% grid energy from nuclear, another 10% from hydro, 5% from renewables and the rest from natural gas.

Point is, I think we should pay more in taxes on gas, but I think this is overkill.

[Lars77]

27. I pay roughly 10 USD per gallon

The US has had extremely low gas prices for decades, how the government can sustain a price like that i don't know but in the rest of the world it's a lot higher.