For Pam Geller, Bill O'Reilly and Other Lurking Islamophbes: When the Moors Ruled in Europe

[Jack Rabbit]

Run time: 09:58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enQfejPWnpk   Posted on YouTube: May 13, 2010 By YouTube Member: NadersChannel Views on YouTube: 1159   Posted on DU: August 30, 2010 By DU Member: Jack Rabbit Views on DU: 712

 
Bettany Hughes presents a BBC-produced documentary. Total run time: approx. 2 hrs, divided into 11 parts on YouTube.

This is for Pam Geller, Bill O'Reilly (who should pay special attention to what is reveled about Muslim Córdoba), Sarah Palin, Robert Spencer and any other lurking right wing moron who needs to be educated about the history of Islam and its positive contributions to the west.

It should be noted that after conquering Spain from the Visigoths in AD 711, the Muslim regime, in accordance with the Koran, granted freedom of worship to Christians and Jews. After the completion of the Christian reconquest of Spain in 1492, King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella set up the Spanish Inquisition and gave the office of Inquisitor General to Tomás de Torquemada, a Dominican friar. Jews and Muslims were driven from Spain. In fact, Spain was not as well-governed as it was under the Moors until after the death of the unlamented dictator Francisco Franco in 1975.

I also think it is fair to say that had the Moors won the battle of Tours in AD 732, Europe would have been conquered by the Moors and would have been much better off than it actually was for centuries afterward. Those silly Crusades would never have been fought, that's for sure.

The main link is to Part 1.
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11

[Hissyspit]

1. They don't care.

It's not about facts and truth for them.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Sadly..that is the truth. They NEVER let the real facts interfere with what they say.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. and The Dark Ages might not have fallen upon Europe.....

The Moors were certainly more enlightened and in most cases, more tolerant, than those that defeated them.

Amazing how many people forget that the Crusades were an invasion....

[Jack Rabbit]

7. The Crusades were an invasion for no good purpose

I am not a militant atheist who blames religion for all the evils of the world, especially not every war. The truth is the few wars were fought for the reasons given by the King/President/Prime Minister/Dictator/whoever. Religion, in reality, was almost never the cause, even when it was given as one. For the most part, wars have been fought over control of natural resources or trade routes and seldom anything else.

However, the Crusades were indeed an example of a war being fought mainly over religion. The Christian west saw "their" Holy City occupied by Muslims (in fact Christians and Jews also lived in Jerusalem and worshiped freely) and just couldn't stand it. As far as I can tell, the allure of oriental wealth had nothing to do with it. The Arabs, of course, cannot be blamed for defending what was already theirs.

The Dark Ages of Western Europe were well underway when the Moors lost to the Franks at Tours in 732. However, they were ending in Spain while the rest of Western Europe would take centuries more to get out of them. Most historians like to fix the formal end of the western Roman Empire (AD 476) as the start of the Dark Ages, but the western Empire had been in a state of decline since the ascension of Commodus to the imperial throne in AD 181. In truth, good Roman Emperors were few and far between.

[BrklynLiberal]

9. How many times in history have politcal leaders used religion as a tool to inspire the populace

to fight a war that they might otherwise not support...? Too many times to count, no doubt.
There are always political and economic reasons that govts want war...but they tell the people it is religion...and off they go.

THAT is why religion is supported by so many governments. They use to support their own agendas.

Religion is a tool...plain and simple. It allows the rich, the powerful and the politically potent to control everyone else.

[hedgehog]

4. I've just looked at the first few minutes, but I suspect the

producers are pushing an up-dated version of the Black Legend. I'm considering both the images shown and the voice-over. True, the Moors had a vibrant civilization, but they were not greeted upon arrival in Europe with people cheering and throwing flowers. From the OP:

"after conquering Spain from the Visigoths in AD 711"

History needs a better balance and more detail than most of us got in school, but replacing one lopsided point of view with another doesn't do the trick.

[Jack Rabbit]

10. I didn't say that Europeans threw flowers before the Moors

I said Europeans in Spain were better governed by the Moors than were Europeans elsewhere at the same time. And I said that Europe would have been better off if governed by the Moors than they would have been if governed by their own nobility, as they were. Compare Moorish Spain to Dark Age Europe and try to come to any other conclusion.

Normally, I would give more than a little deference to the wishes to of common people, but the common people of Europe in the eighth century had no say at all who governed them.

Are you disputing the Visigothic rule of Spain? Here is a map showing Visigothic lands shortly after the fall of Rome:


Wikipedia

[dipsydoodle]

5. Would you fucking believe it !

Youtube block it the UK - Bastards. :(

However - it remains on Google :shrug: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-768956312207897325#

[progressoid]

6. Oh, Noooo, I'm so sorry. It's the MOOPS. The correct answer is, The MOOPS.

[Scurrilous]

8. Thanks.

K & R :thumbsup:

[aquart]

11. Yes. And all whores were once virgins.

The glories of Islam are over because they chose to stultify instead of grow. Mainly, they could not bring themselves to relinquish control of women.

Much like the Catholic Church right now.