"Lot of fresh, new oil coming in" that's RED, LUMPY & NOT DISPERSED -- "Where's that coming from

[Generic Other]

Run time: 00:47 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g364pEsqhqA   Posted on YouTube: September 15, 2010 By YouTube Member: OilFlorida Views on YouTube: 302   Posted on DU: September 16, 2010 By DU Member: Generic Other Views on DU: 6575

 
We’re having more oil coming in today…

There’s fishkills everywhere… all over Plaquemines…

My understanding is there’s a lot of fresh, new oil coming in…

It’s not dispersed oil…

We’re back to the red, lumpy… oil…

Oh my God…

And where is that coming from? No one can answer that question for me.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

1. Kick

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[feslen]

12. and the assholes in congress

want MORE oil rigs? fuck you.

[KansDem]

21. Haven't you heard? If "pro" is the opposite of "con"...

Then "progress" is the opposite of "Congress."

[molly77]

51. And nobody has been accused of eco terrorism

Now WE know who really rules the world. Steal a tube of tooth paste from Wal Mart, go to jail and pay a fine. Destroy the ocean, fish and time will tell how many people will die from these idiot's greed. The people who helped with the clean up from the Exon Valdez in Alaska died.

Here in the US , where capitalism rules, WE have the highest prison population in the world. The prisoners are "helping" with the clean up.The govt. says everything has been taken care of. Well, it hasn't. The oceans need cleaning up and so does Washington.Filthy.

[bherrera]

63. Show me the proof

I would like for you to show us a statement or quote from a relevant Federal government official which states everything has been taken care of. I know you will not.

Here is the latest press briefing from the incident command:

http://cgvi.uscg.mil/media/main.php?g2_itemId=999951

[molly77]

65. I am sorry

Cannot give you a quote. Thought that was the consensus after the corexit was sprayed. And the reason that scientists and locals could not go around the oily beaches.Banned airplanes from flying over etc.

[bherrera]

72. That is misinformation

I suggest you listen to the briefing I posted. You can not show me a genuine statement because such a statement doesn't exist. There is however a lot of misquoting and outright lies. Some of this is panic induction by people with political agendas, some from the right, some from the left. And this is the point I try to make, the information is very confusing, and it is important to not allow the static and bad information to confuse your thinking. If you listen to the briefing, you can see that government vessels are now trying to study the remaining oil, and they have a very intensive effort. It is not mentioned in the briefing, but these guys are not stupid, they are sharpening their teeth to take a big bite out of the BP bank account via fines. They are also very interested in developing the supporting evidence to show that mis-regulation happened under the Bush admnistration, and they need to change it.

[defendandprotect]

101. Btw, what was Obama's "the Gulf will bounce back!" . . . . ?????

And, what we saw on the fish kill photo/thread postings was that people

are being encouraged to eat this fish!!

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

117. Get a grip . . .

what I said was that on the "fish kill" thread ... some from the area were being

encouraged to eat fish -- fish, in general -- NOT FROM THE FISH KILL!!

BP would open a sewer as drinking water if they could make a penny from it --

The Gulf will not "bounce back" -- as we can clearly see there were deaths connected

to the ExxonValdez clean up -- AND that area is stiff suffering effects of that "spill."

And that area didn't even have the complications of the poisonous/toxic COREXIT!!



As for this nonsense . . .

Or are you another Tea Partier attacking President Obama using this type of lie?

Perhaps we should be asking you if you're a T-bagger trying to create quarrels among

Democrats?


Is Obama so fragile that he can't stand criticism or is it his supporters who are fragile?

Those who Obama has chosen to be on his team and to share his administration with are

DLC-corporates/Rahm and Wall Street and Banksters -- continuing FED secrecy on where our

bailout dollars have gone -- and appointing Republicans to make decisions about Social

Security and Medicare -- not to mention continuing Bush wiretapping and many other questionable

pro-corporate decisions . . .

Only the GOP would applaud those pro-corporate decisions.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

118. Maybe you should stick to basketball.

You DEMAND everyone cater to your requests and then turn around and suggest they are moronic Tea Partiers.
Your BS doesn't fly.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe Chi Minh]

129. Unfortunately, we don't measure time in eons on DU.

[defendandprotect]

92. Are you talking about the hidden parts or the barely acknowledged parts . . . ???

Government uses 80% of our oil -- therefore, it is a "national security" issue --

And, not something where Obama is going to try to hold oil industry acountable.

We need to NATIONALIZE the oil industry. If we don't do that, we'll never have

alternative energy.

Private interests should NOT be controlling our nation's natural resources.

[fascisthunter]

96. .

[HillbillyBob]

85. We need to label the corpses as the eco terroists

but how to get heard? msm will not carry what we have to say. we can spread it via internet..but unless it appears as msm story its lost in the hubbub of the bullshit pee pants party and who the hell is screwing paris h or kim karwhatshername.

[defendandprotect]

97. Great post . . . 1000% --

and didn't know that about the people who helped with the ExxonValdez clean up!

And this "spill" is further complicated by the COREXIT!

Capitalism is the great destroyer -- and they continue to leave behind the sick and

suffering. Not saying I'm surprised, but the amount that BP is spending on PR and

trying to avoid being held accountable is something else yet that our Congress should

not be permitting.

And still a long list of destruction to come if we continue down this capitalistic road!

[democrank]

2. Kick

[garybeck]

3. that looks like Kindra Arnesen

she rocks.

[EFerrari]

4. Kick

:(

[defendandprotect]

6. Anyone on TV covering this environmental disaster -- ???

[CLANG]

47. Anyone on TV covering this environmental disaster -- ???

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[valerief]

69. +666 trillion chuckles

:rofl:

[valerief]

70. It might as well be a million person antiwar march. It's just as invisible. nt

[defendandprotect]

75. ...of course -- and then there are so many other things to discuss....!! Sports, celebrities--!!

:evilgrin:

[molly77]

91. Fascism MSM inc.

[bherrera]

105. There are no million person anti war marches in the USA

You have a militaristic society, in which it is fashionable to advocate the use of violence to solve perceived conflicts you cause yourselves. It is also fashionable to worship the military, when in reality they are just government employees who do very little that is useful for the USA people or their freedom.

But that is not the subject of this thread, I think. Maybe we should debate the wars elsewhere?

[valerief]

107. There have been million people antiwar marches in the US. Yes, there have.

Just because they weren't on television doesn't mean they didn't happen.

[SammyWinstonJack]

110. +1

:thumbsup:

[Lost4words]

113. +1 nt

[Lost4words]

112. you dont get it do you?

[Devil_Fish]

133. Dude, crawl back under the rock you came out from. NT

[The Flaming Red Head]

7. Louisiana is no longer part of the US

They don't even treat us like we are part of this country. They ignore us, poison us, drown us, deny us food, water, safe housing and now this. Fuck this country

[Flying Squirrel]

8. ...

:hug:

I'm so sorry. The injustices Louisiana has endured have been monstrous, the worst in the history of this nation I'm sure. I don't know what else to say.

[The Flaming Red Head]

10. Louisiana is like the red headed stepchild no one wants to claim

That mass exodus after Katrina was shameful (like The Trail of Tears part two) and now they are not building housing for the poor; you know the people that made New Orleans, New Orleans.

My very first memory in life was camping with my family on Grand Isle, and every school kid growing up in Louisiana made at least 3 or 4 class visits to Avery Island; you'd go in kindergarten, third grade, six grade; you'd tour the bird sanctuary (beautiful place, just gorgeous) and we'd visit the Tabasco factory, and then throw our sack lunch to the alligators. I remember in six grade we hopped the fence and tossed pb&j sandwiches into the open mouth of the gator till our moms and teachers spotted us and freaked out.

I hate what they did to that area, it might be out of sight, out of mind to the MSM, but not to people from there, or who've been lucky enough to visit; my father was an avid fisherman and I loved our family outings to Grand Isle, but you know oil was always part of everything down there. I was probably born with oil in my hair, everything my family had and every bit of food we had was because my father was a safety engineer and a pipe fitter, and my grandpa worked for Exxon back when it was called Standard Oil, so I am very aware of the methadone factor, like Mother Jones Magazine said in a recent article ( I can't remember who wrote it, (sorry) but it was probably Mac), Oil is Louisiana's Methadone.

They could have treated this situation with a lot more integrity, and morality instead of dumping all that dispersant and making things worse. (Fuck Lisa Jackson and Thad) I bet oil is leaking from the sea bed and they are not telling us the truth.

I am very mad at our Government going way back for the indignities that the state has suffered and it couldn't happen if the chemical companies didn't own the whole Louisiana Legislature lock, stock and barrel

The only industry that's as big as oil in Louisiana are all the Oncology treatment facilities.

[Generic Other]

17. I live on the water in my part of the country...I can't imagine losing it to greedy corporations

I have been scouring the news for info every day. I have loved ones in the Gulf region who are worried sick. It makes me angry that no one seems to care. The news media has moved on, politicians are covering up the extent of the problems, and BP is in full damage control mode. Meanwhile there are even DUers willing to downplay the extent of the devastation. Thise of us fortunate enough to live in coastal areas know what it means to you, how devastating it must be. The water, the beaches are a part of us. To kill them is to kill us.

Please take care of yourself. Those of us who care will continue to speak out!

[Devil_Fish]

134. Pssst.... Those aren't real DU'ers, they are BP paid Operatives and disruptors. NT

:hug:

[femrap]

29. What corporations

have done to this country is criminal...beyond that, really.

To see such beauty of Mother Nature as a child and then to see it devastated as an adult...I'm so sorry.

I f*cking hate corporations.

I see our beautiful farms taken over by developers and then strewn with crappy vinyl-sided houses and pathetic Walmarts.

There are days when I hope the Mayan and Hopi Calendars are correct and December of 2012 will end this horrid existence on the planet and a new paradigm will emerge based on cooperation.

Mother Earth should just tilt on her axis and throw all the greedy assholes off the planet.

[liberation]

48. It is not just "this country"

Americans are finally experiencing the same hubris and destruction which corporations (some as American as apple pie) have bestowed upon big chunks of the rest of the world. The proverbial chickens are coming back home to roost, and we can no longer turn a blind eye... like we were used to when it was happening to someone else.

[femrap]

74. Many countries

don't allow US corps to do what they want....Europe won't put up with the genetically modified seeds.

But I do understand what you're saying having read 'The Economic Hitman.'

[HillbillyBob]

83. I have been talking about the pollution and shitty way natives were treated

in other countries by US corpses since I was a kid..was told you stupid tree hugger those are savages and it will never affect us here..I was 7 or 8 the first time i was called that. Now (even though I should not say) I repeatedly get to say I told you so ! I turn 48 tomorrow. So I have been at it for 40 yrs.

[molly77]

98. Bless you wise person

[defendandprotect]

103. A truth that needs to sink in with Americans . . .. !!

[axollot]

35. I'm so sorry.

:hug:

Cheers
Sandy

[texastoast]

90. And your oncology facilities are big because of the oil bidness

And chemical business.

The river between Baton Rouge and New Orleans justifies the nickname Cancer Alley. With all respect for the tenacity of Louisianans, the folks who quit doing business with the pharmacist in Cancer Alley in the 1990s when she brought out the idea of the environmental poisons impacting the gigantic miscarriage rate in the area (and all the concerned people like her), are part of the problem.

Same here in Texas. In West Texas the rate of thyroid cancer is over double the national rate, but will one of the oil bidness's employees accuse them? Maybe one or two. The rest don't discuss it.

My heart goes out to you as Rome burns on Grand Isle.

[axollot]

33. I know and it's wrong. Thank the mostly conservative base for

electing idiot representatives. Same thing in Mississippi - my mother was a victim of Katrina. My brother is a victim of the oil spill as he was a shrimper/crab fisherman. It wasnt much but he's recovering from stage 4 cancer.

Hardly recognise this country anymore and really want to take my family back to Australia - except my mother is in her 70's and my hubby's parents are here in Florida.

Cheers
Sandy

HATES the f'ing CONServatives destroying this country.

[molly77]

94. I am so sorry.

Wanted so much to help after Katrina. Still cannot believe that a city and state was treated the way that you have been. How the US and Louisiana collects taxes is beyond me.They do nothing to help US, just corporations , wall street and the banks.

[florida08]

9. This is not right

Dammit..if it's there it's other places as well. Get videos to the national media. Call them up and get their asses out there. God I hate corporate America.

[Lost4words]

11. +1! nt

[ChiciB1]

37. But We AREN'T Even Hearing About This "Supposed" New Oil You're

talking about! Seems it's not being covered! Anyone see that picture yesterday about all the dead fish down there!

I live on the Gulf side of Florida and I KNOW there is a different smell around here! It's faint, but I've lived here for 26 years and it's NOT Red Tide, that much I DO KNOW!! There also seems to be some not so usual fish life coming closer to the shore than before! I feel they are fleeing the more toxic areas of the Gulf, but I've heard of two sharks that have died that surprised us here!

[The Drexel Dave]

13. Didn't Jeebus make it disappear?

what's going on here?

[axollot]

36. We knew it didnt disappear - how the hell are people buying that anyway?! I've seen it in bayous n/t

[bherrera]

14. It sounds like exaggeration

The latest report about the oil spill observations in the Louisiana region is found here

http://emergency.louisiana.gov/Releases/91410Sightings.html

The fish kill is very likely to be caused by low oxygen, which is caused by high water temperature or excessive use of fertilizers. It is also possible the fish were killed and dumped on purpose by individuals seeking money from the government compensation fund which is deposited by BP. There are several incidents reported of illegal activity carried out to gain compensation, and this is being investigated by the police.

I follow this incident carefully because I work for the city in Alicante, and we have a very nice beach, we monitor the oil spill problems, response, what was done right, and wrong. My impression is that the response was very good, President Obama is doing a very good job, and there is a lot of misinformation, and also now we observe illegal activities by people who are trying to make money from this terrible accident.

[Generic Other]

15. Citizens post Youtube videos of the devastation daily!

"It is also possible the fish were killed and dumped on purpose by individuals seeking money from the government compensation fund..."
Are you serious????

It's also possible that the fish crawled out Jindal's ass...what the hell...when did the Mississippi delta become de Nile?

I take offense to your characterizing the eyewitness reports as misinformation. The only misinformation is coming from the Feds, the local authorities and BP. So far the reports of the locals have been 100% accurate.

Kindra Arnesen has not lied to us once about the situation out her front window.

Plenty of evidence here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9142755

[bherrera]

18. Reports are exagerated

There are many instances of reports which are badly exaggerated. For example, we are aware of one instance where the oil fouling a wetland had an extent of about 10 meters. This was photographed from various angles and posted as an enormous impact, when it was not. We are also aware of an instance where an individual stole oil from a tank located in Louisiana, oil produced by a local oil well, and spilled it close to his property, to be able to claim money from the compensation fund.

All of the incidents posted on you tube are listed in the response website I listed, there also detailed maps prepared. Your claim that the government is hiding information is unfounded - you have no basis nor confirmation of this point. What may be happening is that you are not accessing the data bases where the information is posted by the government, without all the hysteria. The hysteria is instigated by two types of individuals: group one is in a general attack mode against the oil industry in general, group two is republican agents which are trying to undermine President Obama's administration.

Regarding the fish kills, experts agree such a fish kill, which is common in the region, is likely the cause of low oxygen in the water, or it is an illegal act by an individual who poisoned the fish, or dumped the fish, to make a claim. These type of incidents are inconsistent with the expected pattern from oil fouling (for example, the fish in this case show no oil whatsoever, nor is the area fouled with oil) which tells us they are very likely due to other causes, and illegal acts are a primary suspect. There are going to be many people arrested and jailed as they try to gain some money from the disaster fund. It is what you call a scam, like the one of the lady who faked falling on spilled oil at the supermarket, and was captured on the security camera. Many of these odd incidents are similar.

[keepCAblue]

52. Your profile ...

Shows you joined DU August 1, 2010 and you list Spain as your home.

Hmmm...if you are in Spain, how do you know that all these youtube videos are exaggerated and/or scams of people trying to cheat poor little BP out of their precious money?

Funny that you joined DU not long after the first containment cap was put in place and about the time began its PR/propaganda campaign of pointing fingers of blame to everyone but themselves, along with the systematic cover-up of facts concerning the spill's cause and subsequent disaster.

Just a coincidence, I'm sure...

[bherrera]

108. It's vacation time in Spain August 1

August is vacation period in Spain. I live near the beach, but it was very hot this year. And I did not want to spend money traveling, because of the economic crisis, the price of houses is lower, and I hope it will be lower later this year, I am saving all my money to buy a larger apartment. If you look at Alicante, look at Cabo Huertas, I live about 500 meters from the end.

[liberation]

121. And the first thing you decided to do with your vacation time was...

... joining a discussion forum regarding American politics? What a coincidence!

Further coincidences are the fact that Alicante has a huge British ex-pat community, and BP has one of their largest refineries in Southern Europe is in Valencia. The fact that your posts read literally like a PR script in favor of BP is also nothing but a product of chance.

Apparently, living near the Mediterranean must give this fellow special super powers to know the reality of an oil spill which happened in the Gulf of Mexico thousands of miles away, in a different country, and a whole different body of water altogether. Ironically, I live right next to the Pacific, but I seem to lack such powers. It must be a byproduct of the Paella?

[molly77]

67. You have a lot of faith

[K Gardner]

123. What absolute unmitigated garbage. Having fun, or is this your job?

[cheapdate]

130. It's not credible that 100 million gallons of crude

spilled into the gulf could cause a fish kill in a coastal marsh. It's low oxygen. Or sabotage. Nothing to do with the 100 million gallons of fish poison. Besides, can anyone prove scientifically beyond any doubt that the fish died as a result of the oil spill? I rest my case.

[Devil_Fish]

135. Watch out, bherrera has a sock puppet. NT

[ChiciB1]

41. On Purpose?? Call Me Stupid, But I Find That Comment "Weird" But Then

I'm seeing so many commercials from people who say they have lived in LA all their life, and what a GREAT job has been done, etc., etc.! They won't stop until the clean-up is done, yatty, yatty, yatty!

What a crock!! And then, all those people who say KEEP OFF-SHORE drilling! I DO realize that many jobs were lost, but THIS IS THE TIME for some good old fashioned ingenuity to create different jobs that aren't so lethal to the whole Gulf Of Mexico!!

The Gulf is a crucial place NOT TO MESS with!! One could liken it to what Catholics think about the Vatican!! It's the center of so much marine life and the mess they've ALREADY made is REALLY a disaster!

I don't believe for ONE MOMENT that those fish were dumped on purpose! Call me stupid, but it seems far fetched at the very least!

[molly77]

99. Jobs lost

NAFTA?

[MrMickeysMom]

16. That shouldn't matter, because it's NOT an exaggeration ...

... It will take FAR MORE MONEY to mitigate the disaster that BP allowed.


Uh, that would be the SAME disaster they apparently are not bonded to fund.

Does anybody else think THAT'S an exaggeration?

[Generic Other]

19. I think the exaggeration is saying that government officials are to be trusted

They are the ones with the motives to underplay the extent of the disaster. They are the ones who want tourist dollars to return to their polluted beaches. They are the ones who don't wish to test for oil, to test for corexit, to expose the true extent of the damage. They are the ones who boasted that 80%n of the oil miraculously evaporated. They are the ones hiding the carcasses of marine life, preventing reporters from having access to beaches where rudimentary clean-up is occurring. They are the ones posting the misinformation.

That citizens throughout the Gulf region feel the need to report what is really happening in their communities suggests to me that local, state, and federal authorities are the ones exaggerating their own ability to control the situation.

[bherrera]

22. Again, your statements lack a solid basis or support

The wildlife is being tested for oil and other chemicals. It's not possible to test for Corexit because the chemical has degraded - it only has a limited life when it is exposed to sunlight. They do test for the byproducts, some of which can be harmful. There is no reason to test for "oil" as such, the key is to test for the polycyclic aromatics, which can be very harmful. And the testing is very comprehensive.

When citizens report oil, this is investigated, and if the report is confirmed, it is posted immediately on the status maps, which I am sure you have never bothered to find.

In reality what we observe is a high tendency emerging for unethical individuals to try to use the oil spill for illegal gains. I am just making you aware the US authorities are aware this is taking place, and there are active police investigations. More investigations will follow.

In some cases, the police ignore the specific event and only give a slight warning to the individuals, for example some crab fishermen who made a claim their catch was fouled with oil, but were unable to produce the crabs for testing when they were told the government labs had the ability to determine if the oil was spilled on purpose or it was from the BP oil spill. Those crab fishermen evidently had been trying to make a claim and did not understand the sophistication of modern laboratories which can establish where the oil originated.

[Generic Other]

26. You can accuse these crab fisherman of any crime you like

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x504907

I watched the video. The man is crying. He doesn't want to "hurt" anyone by poisoning them. He asked someone to come test the catch. They didn't come. This video tells the story. Are you calling this man a liar and criminal?

[MrMickeysMom]

32. Me suspects this guy likes more than ...

The hobby of basketball!

[axollot]

40. My brother is a crab fisherman. When it hit Clermont Harbor you could

hardly see the oil sheen (I've got lots of photos tho). He had been allowed to put his traps in as in July that area had not been hit yet. He put all his traps in, less than 12 hours later pulled them out and they were full but all of the crab - dead.

This closed the area down and it really didnt "look" bad at all however the bayou was dieing clearly in front of our eyes from the sea floor up.

The person reporting for the city they work for is likely telling the truth as *THEY* know it and does have other information. I know action was taken quickly but it still seemed like closing the gate after the horse has left the paddock - why was the area allowed to be HIT when it could have been protected before the oil came. We knew it was coming!

Now it's all gone? Now that large fish kill is a likely fake?! OMG - ya there are scammers but there are far more people that are just out right being HURT by this and that fish kill isnt at all like the *common* ones seen. It's not just one type of fish which is the norm in these fish kills it's everything, from crabs to whales. I don't think that people have brought in dead f'ing whales....

cheers
Sandy

[bherrera]

59. you don't make sense

The total kill count is reported in the government site. It is also discussed in the daily briefings, of which I receive a copy by email (and you can receive if you ask for these). The large fish kill is either a fake or caused by low oxygen in the water but unrelated to the BP oil spill. Numerous studies show the oil biodegradation process is not causing low oxygen levels. And the only thing which kills all the fish in a closed area is low oxygen, or poison. The low oxygen is triggered by excess nitrogen and phosphorus - not related to oil spill. The poison is likely caused by a natural agent such as a bacterium (this is a very rare circumstance), or by intentional poisoning. The intentional poisoning is to be investigated, because many of these intelligent criminals are killing a lot of animals and spoiling nature in their venal atempts to collect money from the government compensation fund.

In the specific case of your brother, I am not defending the authorities nor am I saying they were right to leave the area open at the time. I am only saying that if a fisherman is able to find tainted sea life in his nets or traps, then he should report it, save the evidence, and this can then be used to prosecute BP and also to understand the effects of the oil spill, and to pay the fisherman from the compensation fund. An honest fisherman with a normal intelligence will understand that if this is a criminal case and he is going to claim money he will have to show proof. But it is non sense to make a claim, cry for the camera, and then destroy the evidence.

[axollot]

106. Yes - feel free to send it.

Listen, I know there is a lot of misinformation out there but I also know there is a whole lot of areas affected with large kills.

Some are normal but many are not because of the diversity of fish/animals found in the mix of it. As you know what we consider "normal kills" from the summer run off effect a few species but never as diverse as the ones making the news, recently.

The area around Clearmont/Waveland getting hit wasnt the fault of local authorities - guys like yourself that work for the City. They've been all over it trying/begging for protection before the oil hit. One only need to look at Plaquemines to know it's pretty bad. But Plaquemines is now a sort of Ground Zero tho. Sadly, Waveland/Clearmont requests all ignored (again - ground zero for Katrina fyi) and the area was destroyed, still dieing a slow death. I went out with my brother after he pulled up the pots with 1st lot of dead crab, I was at our Mother's an hour away. While clean up crews worked the beaches for visible oil and tar balls, my brother took me to the area he put his crab pots in (this was July). And another one suggested by one of the other fishermen.

The Bayou was not it's self that's for sure. The gator slides were all dry (so they got out of the area - moved further inland, I'm guessing as the oil seeped in/before booming etc) you didnt hear any slide into the water as you normally do when you approach a bank with the boat idling. Also missing, birds. The water had a few large fish but they were dieing too.

Heres the thing - it wasnt chocolate syrup type oil all over, the beaches had "tar balls" (that's what brought in the booming and crews) rather, it was just a very light rainbow on top in the bayou areas that are brackish water mix of fresh and salt water. (for those not familiar).

If you didnt know about the usual sounds you wouldnt know there was a difference. I don't think the feds are hiding facts but I do think it's a much bigger problem than most people can comprehend and much harder for the government to take the action it still needs to do. Especially areas like I described - as it doesnt look as bad but the area is dieing from the floor and works it way up.

I'll be honest. Your complaint of it being "scammers" has the distinct smell of oil company PR talking points. No offense. I know the people and they are very poor and sure some may be looking for a fast dollar but - like the "Cadillac welfare queens" the RW spewed on about that never existed or stories of how the poor dont deserve health care because of a tattoo and owning a cell phone, it comes off disingenuous.

So yes - I find it hard to believe that's the primary problem. All the guys on the water that I know want to keep it clean so they can fish it and wouldnt poison it further. If they found a scammer poisoning the water further for their own gain - they'd probably lynch him/them. The men that work on the water are hurting really bad.

I sure hope you arent referring to my brother in your last sentence! I was out on the boat photographing every speck of the area. He did his part too. He is "intelligent enough" to protect himself and his assets.

Cheers
Sandy
PS: please feel free to PM all the links/info to me!

[bherrera]

57. Yes, he is probably a good actor, and a criminal

he was unable to produce the crab for sampling when the government agents asked for the same. "They didn't come" is baloney. Apparently the man expected the government to send properly equipped personnel within hours. Because the BP oil spill includes a criminal investigation as well as the potential for several billion us dollars in fines, all the samples should meet a collection and test protocol, because they will be used to show the damages caused by the spill, and this will probably be a case decided by courts.

Unless the man can produce the evidence, which he did not, then I believe he was lying and he was creating a case to be compensated. And there seems to be a lot of this type of event taking place.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

93. Ok Back up your statements.

You say this and that, but give as much proof as the OP

Are we to believe you, reporting from Spain?

You sound like a BP troll.

[Devil_Fish]

136. You are so obviously on BP's pay role, you should just leave you are so transparent. NT

[MrMickeysMom]

23. Well, you're right about Govt's part on the exaggeration...

.. but, it's on whose behalf the GOVT exaggerates that worries me most. That, and continued tolerance for UNFETTERED corporate control of our country's future.

[molly77]

68. I agree

Corexit is banned in Great Britain but good enough for US ? How can anybody justify that?

[femrap]

27. I think this dude

who supposedly works for the city of Alicante is a mole...he's working for BP.

Or one of our willfully ignorants who would obey anyone that provides him with an income.

I wouldn't believe a word he writes.

I feel for the people and marine life of LA. :cry:

We are being lied to. :mad:

[bherrera]

60. And you can't prove a thing you say

As I said, the proof is what counts. I can show support for what I say. None of the hysterical comments attacking the Obama administration can be supported. Thus I say many of you are Republicans who are undermining President Obama.

[femrap]

73. Go get your BP

boss a cup of coffee and STFU.

I don't fall for your childish rovian crap.

Scat!

[liberation]

87. Oh, come on! He is an "educated and informer observer"

it says so right there in his script.

[femrap]

88. I wonder how

he looks at himself in the mirror. That's some bad ass Karma he's gonna face.

[KansDem]

102. "...who supposedly works for the city of Alicante is a mole...he's working for BP."

And they won't even buy him a gold star!

What cheapskates!

[bherrera]

20. Your statement is unfounded - you should show proof

Thus far the fund which BP agreed to give to the Obama administration, is $20 billion. This sum appears to be sufficient to pay the legitimate claims. Enviromental experts working for Swiss banks (which loaned money to BP) concluded the highest possible impact on BP would be about $30 billion, and this is what BP has introduced in their accounting system. The impact thus far is less than expected three months ago, due to the very active bio-degradation by bacteria, and the fact that so much oil seems to have remained in a deep water layer, where it remains because it can't rise to the surface. Oil is also found, biodegraded by bacteria, in a mixture with colloidal particles on the sea floor, in the form of a black snow. This was reported by Dr Samantha Joye, and I am sure you can see her interviews on youtube.

Notice I said the impact thus far is less than expected. There are long term effects which must be investigated. There is also an interesting point which is emerging from the criminal investigation which is taking place at a NASA facility, of the equipment recovered from the sea floor last week. This information tends to confirm the oil flow was as estimated by the government team, or less. Significant evidence is emerging that less is more likely, because they have found erosion of the steel valves which shows the oil flow eroded a wider hole in the valve due to the high speed and cavitation of the liquid and gas mixture.

As you can see, I am an informed educated observer. I suggest you do the same by visiting the relevant US government websites. They are very open, and they also answer questions if you ask by email. I mentioned before the attacks I see seem to be suspicious, and many may be associated with Republican party agents attacking President Obama.

[golddigger]

24. The Gulf of Mexico is a toxic soup and no fuckin spin

you try to put on it will fly. And good fuckin luck getting money from BP.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Generic Other]

25. From the Times Picuyune

Wednesday

* Submerged oil stirred up by boat 4.6 miles northwest of the Grand Gosier Islands.
* Submerged oil stirred up by boat 7.6 miles east of the Breton Islands.
* Oil sheen 1.75 miles northeast of the mouth of the Kimbel Pass.
* Oil sheen 2.4 miles east of the southern mouth of Pass a Loutre.
* Oil, tar balls, and sheen in water and cane grass on the east jetty of the Southeast Pass.
* Oil, tar balls, and sheen in water and cane grass on the west jetty of the Southeast Pass.

Thursday

* Heavy tar found 6 to 8 inches under the sand 0.95 mile west of the entrance to Chaland Pass.
* Heavy tar 30 yards long by 6 feet found 4 inches under the sand 3.2 miles east of the entrance to Chaland Pass.

Friday

* Half mile of oil on an unnamed marsh island on the southwest side of Bay Jimmy.
* Tar balls on the beach on the east side of the Scofield Bayou south entrance.
* Tar patties in an area 1 mile long by 20 yards wide in West Bay 2.15 miles northwest of Outlet W-2.
* Tar balls, 6 feet to 12 feet in diameter, in a large area of Scott Bay, 08 mile north-northwest of Double Bayou.
* Oil droplets, 3 inches in diameter, with some slightly submerged oil 1 mile west-southwest of the Southwest Pass Lighthouse.
* Heavy oil sheen with surface oil droplets and submerged oil in an area 2,500 feet long and 300 feet wide, 0.85 mile west of the Southwest Pass East Jetty.
* Dark oil and tar balls by the South Pass West Jetty.

Monday

* Oil with the consistency of peanut butter, 10 feet long and 2 feet wide, 1.46 miles east of Bay La Mer.
* Oil on the beach, in an area 2 feet wide and 25 feet long, 1.76 miles east of Bay La Mer.
* Oil patty, 4 feet in diameter and 4 inches thick, 0.95 miles west of Chaland Pass.

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/09/louisiana_authorities_report_o_30.html

And where do you get off accusing me or anyone else of being a Republican agent for posting info that is not being reported otherwise? That is disgusting, and just the sort of logic I would expect of someone unwilling to be honest about their own motives. YOU are the one who works for the local authorities. YOU are the one downplaying the extent of the problem. YOU are the one defending BP. And I am a Republican operative? Apparently one who posted on DU for 9 years waiting for my big chance to emerge from the woodwork to monkeywrench some politicians' career? That's some huge leap of logic there!!

I am linking to information that the newspapers in your area are reporting. That I don't happen to place much credence in what the government is posting anymore says more about their misinformation campaigns, stonewalling, and lack of transparency all in the name of calming the citizenry, revitalizing tourism, and aiding the oil industry who have very large economic motive in underplaying this story.

[golddigger]

30. + 1

[bherrera]

34. Notice the difference and educate yourself

The references you show from the Times Picayune are the same are reported by the Louisiana Wildlife Agency. This information is also posted in the US Federal government website I had suggested be visited by people who want real information.

The key item I want to point out is the nature of the oil described in the reliable observations - "oil with the consistency of peanut butter", "oil patty", "tar balls", etc etc. These are all genuine reports because they indicate the oil is biodegraded. Because the oil well stopped spewing oil in the middle of July, we know that fresh oil is not possible, unless it is spilled from other sources. The oil from the BP oil spill, after traversing the Gulf of Mexico waters for 60 days, is biodegraded. "Peanut butter", "tar patty" and "tar ball" are descriptions consistent with biodegraded oil, because the bacteria eat the middle chain paraffins, and the oil which is not eaten has the description you show above. But the first posting referred to "fresh oil", which is highly misleading. Fresh oil would tell us it is oil spilled on purpose by criminals who want to make a claim.

The same applies to the incidents of fish kills in which the evidence points to intentional killing, or to death by lack of oxygen caused by high temperatures or excessive introduction of fertilizers or detergents. This is a very serious pollution problem which is observed in the Mississippi river, and is used as an example in environmental science courses of the effects of excess of nitrogen and phosphorus in the effluent water. The dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico is caused by this simple reason, the US farmers use too much fertilizer, and US homes use too much of the wrong type of detergent, and thus the ocean fauna is being decimated.

I think we could have an intelligent discussion about this topic and enviromental protection if the hysteria is reduced, and more facts are introduced. Instead I see too much lack of solid information. And this, my friend, is the theme I like to use in DU. You, American people, were lied to by your government about the Iraq weapons of mass destruction. You supported a war many people consider a war crime. And this was caused by the lack of attention to the nature of the information you were being given, and your naive attitude towards understanding that indeed governments do lie, and it is important to understand when they do, and when they do not.

[JBoy]

45. Thanks for the lecture, Sparky.

[Devil_Fish]

138. get off your high horse Jack Ass.

We The people of Earth don't take kindly to the miss-information spread by BP opperatives. We are not your friend so don't even go there. Further more, I didn't see any one here at DU supporting the war and most of us Americans think it was and is a war crime. We would love it if spain (or what ever country your really in) would arrest Bush and put him on trial since our government seems to complicit to do it. please take darth chaney too.

[Devil_Fish]

137. +2 NT

[MrMickeysMom]

31. "As you can see, I am an informed educated observer..."

Wait, I had to wipe the tears from my eyes....

You are showing most of us here how someone types after swallowing what BP's own scientists said it would cost, which is the $20 billion dollar you quote (I might add, without any more proof than what THEIR scientists said. Well, DUH... what do you think that $20 billion dollars is tied to? How about a compensatory fund that our weak kneed EPA agreed could tie to BP's continued drilling prospect.

Yes, how believable it is when the initial thing the EPA said, which was that 75% of the oil was "gone" changed TWO DAYS LATER when they were challenged and then admitted 80% is still there.

The "black algae" BP insisted was natural felt like oil, and sure smelled like oil. Hey, it WAS oil.

BP, TransOcean, Halliburton have no honor among their thievery, just reckless and wanton conduct. Get a history book out and see what has been said here was the exact same argument used during the Exxon Valdez oil spill, which used to the worst we experienced.

It's more like $80 billion dollars and your parroting of "the impact thus far is less than expected" is so full of holes.

I'm a bit of an informed observer myself and I say that the Oil Industry is one master of putting more people out of work than anything you've pretended to cost out over that bullshit I just read.

[bherrera]

42. I am discussing reliability of information posted by the Obama administration

Sorry, but I am not defending BP. I am discussing the reliability of the information posted by the Obama administration in the response website.

Thus far I see no support for the attacks agaisnt the Federal government which are consistent with the facts as reported. There is no information to tell us that 80 % of the oil is found in the Gulf of Mexico. We should be clear, the molecules of individual oil particles are broken down, and therefore many of these atoms and byproducts are in the environment.

But science tells us, today, right now, more than 99 % of the oil is gone. What is left is biodegraded oil, and the byproducts. This is an important point. For example, we know oil floats on water, unless it is an unusual form of biodegraded oil. Therefore the oil reported to be on the sea floor is no longer oil. It is biodegraded oil, which is closer in its nature to asphalt than it is to oil. And this is a very important difference, because the high viscosity asphaltic or tarry material will contain less of the very deadly components, for example benzenes. It is the polycyclic aromatics which really cause panic in the environmental experts, because they are very harmful. But these are evidently disappearing. The "peanut butter" reported in some sightings is more dangerous, and should be collected, because it is a biodegraded oil mixed with sea water in an emulsion form.

I think the BP oil spill will have less impact than the Exxon Valdez oil spill, because the site was located so far offshore, and the bacteria in the Gulf of Mexico were very active. These bacteria have evolved to eat oil which appears from natural seeps, and they had a feast with the BP oil.

[liberation]

49. "Sorry, but I am not defending BP. "

Well, thank goodness you weren't...

"These bacteria have evolved to eat oil which appears from natural seeps, and they had a feast with the BP oil. "

LOL, hey Mr. "informed and educated observer" where is an actual reference for that? You know extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary proof as it was discussed in the past international conference of "Informed and Educated Observers" (or maybe you missed that session? darn...)

[bherrera]

55. References to Oil Biodegradation by Bacteria

Science (visit your local library):

Title: Deep-Sea Oil Plume Enriches Indigenous Oil-Degrading Bacteria
Hazen et al.
Science 26 August 2010: science.1195979v2-1195979
DOI: 10.1126/science.1195979

QUOTE:

"The biological effects and expected fate of the vast amount of oil in the Gulf of Mexico from the Deepwater Horizon blowout are unknown due to the depth and magnitude of this event. Here, we report that the dispersed hydrocarbon plume stimulated deep-sea indigenous -proteobacteria that are closely related to known petroleum-degraders. Hydrocarbon-degrading genes coincided with the concentration of various oil contaminants. Changes in hydrocarbon composition with distance from the source and incubation experiments with environmental isolates demonstrate faster-than-expected hydrocarbon biodegradation rates at 5°C. Based on these results, the potential exists for intrinsic bioremediation of the oil plume in the deep-water column without substantial oxygen drawdown."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Applied and Environmental Microbiology

Title: "Isolation of Marine Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbon (PAH)-Degrading Cycloclasticus Strains from the Gulf of Mexico and Comparison of Their PAH Degradation Ability with That of Puget Sound Cycloclasticus Strains" by Allison D. Geiselbrecht, Brian P. Hedlund, Mary A. Tichi, and J. T. Staley

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/short/64/12/4703

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Florida State University

Title: Researchers investigate how quickly microbes can break down oil in Gulf beach sands

Quote:

""Crude oil is a natural component that constantly seeps out of Gulf of Mexico sediments — obviously in much smaller quantities than those now caused by the drilling accident — so native microbes have evolved that consume this oil and thereby degrade it," Kostka said. "These microorganisms include bacteria and also some microalgae that live in the water column and the sediments of the Gulf of Mexico."

Kostka said oil accumulations deposited on the beach surface are easily removed by, for example, scraping off the top layer of sand. However, the oil components that penetrate into the sand can only be removed by microbial degradation."

http://www.eoas.fsu.edu/Earth-Ocean-and-Atmospheric-Science/News/FSU-Researchers-study-the-Gulf-spill-and-the-microbes-that-feed-on-oil

[MrMickeysMom]

79. It's plain to see why you would stop interpreting further...

You don't use the article for anything more than confirming your feigned knowledge about science. Look, grasshopper-

The bacteria they discuss in the first abstract you pasted are described "closely related to known petroleum-degraders" addresses the biodegradation rates at 5°C.

They are postulating what might be. An example in human microbiology can be used to try to bring you into reality about this. For example, I have the potential, based on my body's circulating immunoglobins to survive a huge gram negative endotoxin by way of getting a super-infection, such as patients are likely to do with a strain of Vancomycin Resistant Enterococcus, based on my immune system.

The microbiology in the study that shows promise to these scientists are discussed. Is this an early study? What is the sample size? (can you say what N equals?). What you ARE saying, whether you know it or not, is that the potential exists for something to survive this insult.

Getting back to the human example, for my own body's chemistry (intrinsic bioremediation) to survive, the immune system must be absolute. Based on my cellular function to survive, I'm probably a strong subject. As for the follow up, and I'm sure there WILL be, we have no idea whether the partial pressure of oxygen is destroying a much bigger population, which is the fucking food chain. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? I don't believe you've read THAT science, but you sure think you have.

Reading comprehension should be accompanied by seeking others' interpretation. You are no more able to draw conclusions of this than you are to build a time machine.

Jeebus Fucking Christ.

So this becomes the reason you support of the oil plume in the deep-water column without substantial oxygen drawdown.

Keep your "subscription" up, there. Come back when you have something to add. Meanwhile, I think I know what's floating on the water here, so you better FLUSH and light a candle afterwards.

[liberation]

80. LOL

Talk about selective quoting... You forgot to mention the second piece relates to research from a grant from BP, which I am sure is just a "coincidence"

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&contentId=7062936


The first article is nothing new, some micro organisms have been shown to be able to break down certain elements of crude oil. However, even after 20+ years those microorganisms haven't been able to take care of most of the residue left by Exxon Valdez's spill, for example. Thus, you simply had no hard data to back the wild extrapolations you were making.

BTW, if you have access to your local college library, I recommend you check the latest issue from Science.

http://www.dnaindia.com/health/report_oil-munching-bacteria-not-breaking-down-giant-underwater-oil-plume_1426294


You seem to be pushing a very disingenuous narrative. Be careful when thinking argumentation using condescending attitudes, you may end up dealing with someone who is more educated than you.

[liberation]

122. *Crickets*

I gather there is no proper reply to this in your script, is there?

[molly77]

66. I would like a link

to the science that tells us that 99% of the oil is gone.

[bherrera]

76. You show me a link

Which shows light oil from the Gulf of Mexico can remain without becoming biodegraded for 60 days if it is found in an aerobic environment. The fact is the original oil is gone. The remaining oil is mostly biodegraded oil, which is a different chemical species from the original mixture.

Let me see if I can educate you a small bit: the oil in the environment today is the rotten corpse. The original oil was the body. But after 60 days and bacteria eating it, most of the oil which remains, if you will, is "rotten oil".

There is a significant difference to the educated observer, because this "Rotten Oil" behaves differently. For example, it doesn't rise to the surface of the ocean if it's caught in a thermocline. The biodegraded oil at the surface rose earlier, and became emulsified and mixed with biogenic material. This what they call "peanut butter", "patties" and "tar balls". If these "patties" are allowed to biodegrade (that is, they are not picked up), they will sink because they will be denser than water.

Thus, my comment is made by knowing that it's not possible to have a "corpse" remain fresh for 60 days floating in the Gulf of Mexico. It is impossible. This oil has been biodegraded, and what remains in the environment is the biodegraded species.

Why do I say 99 % and not 100 %? Because there is a small amount which may strike a beach, and penetrate the sediments, going into the sand to a lower level, where it is encapsulated by an overlying biodegraded oil layer. This oil remains "fresh", and it is not biodegraded so fast. This is why it may be feasible to make a pilot boring in a Florida beach, and if you make it about one meter deep, you may see the water has fluorescent material on top, which is the undegraded (or barely undegraded) oil. This oil does become biodegraded by anaerobic bateria, but this process is slower.

[liberation]

81. "The fact is the original oil is gone."

Personal opinions are not facts, no matter how "educated and informed" observer you claim to be.

In fact, I am beginning to think that the term "observer" does not mean what you think it means either.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

120. "...science tells us, today, right now, more than 99 % of the oil is gone"

You're a joke.

[molly77]

100. Thank you for the details

Don't have a TV and not as good at research as you. Maybe I should not have apologized.Didn't do any good anyway. The BP lover continues to rant.

[keepCAblue]

53. How much is BP paying you? n/t

[bherrera]

56. Nothing

I am already paid very well, and I don't work for BP.

[keepCAblue]

54. How much is BP paying you? n/t

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

95. ESA&D nt

[KoKo]

44. We also know BP is doing a "round the clock" ad campaign to convince people everything's OK...

They've already manage to get their polling up since the gusher.

I imagine there are many sympathizers.

[KoKo]

46. K&R....

[bherrera]

62. I don't like BP

I live in Spain. We don't see those adverts you mention. And I don't like BP. I would not purchase anything from them. Maybe if they change their name to "WEARESORRY" oil company.

[liberation]

109. Alicante?

As in Alicante, Spain?

How exactly does that make your opinion "qualified" regarding an event which happened thousands of miles away?

[Lost4words]

114. you are fucking insane

[The Flaming Red Head]

115. problems like the BP spill are not exaggerated, they are mostly ignored

This one was just too big for them to ignore.

I have friends and family that live in a place called the CC in Baton Rouge. (the next Bhopal)


CC stands for Chemical Corridor. Locals call it the CC for short, it runs the length of North Baton Rouge with chemical plants on one side and neighborhoods, schools, restaurants, playgrounds, and as with all urban settings crack houses, anyway the CC has a lockdown whenever there is a chemical spill, and it rarely, if ever gets mentioned by the national media. Honeywell had three in just a two month period a few years back.

My sister and nephews were among the unfortunates to have been living there when this occurred; section 8 and any affordable housing is harder to find after Katrina, so you take what you can get.

Anyway when they lockdown the CC, meaning the whole area; the state police block all the entrances and exits on the interstate and you are told to shelter in place, shut the door of your drafty, ill repaired, old house, turn off the AC, and stuff towels and blankets in the cracks under the door and in the windows.

It is terrifying. There are Elementary schools there, kids on playgrounds, mom’s hanging laundry like my sis, so she didn't hear the news of the leak; she just got very ill and started puking, she called me crying, she couldn't breathe well, her vision was blurry and she thought maybe it was the flu, but it came on so quickly. I told her go to the ER right now, don't fuck around, but she called me back a few minutes later and found out that she had been caught outside during the main part of the leak.

Now here's the funny part (you know FOX news funny ha-ha) a local doctor was on TV telling the poor people not to come to the ER, because they would not treat them.

You see poor people, black people, Hispanic, women, children are not human anymore.

These problems, like this latest one, the BP spill are not exaggerated, they are mostly ignored on a daily basis all the time down there.

Baton Rouge is the next Bhopal if we allow these companies to keep doing what they are doing.

It's not a matter of IF, but WHEN.

[Devil_Fish]

139. Horrorfying. I feel for your sister. I can't imagine a worse fate. NT

[Uncle Joe]

38. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Generic Other.

[golddigger]

39. K&R...I see your post caused BP's Tony Heywood

or whatever the scum fucks name to spin his shit on your OP.

[bherrera]

43. That is Tony Hayward, and he lost his job

Mr Hayward, who will live in infamy the rest of his life, is no longer the head of BP. He was replaced by Mr Robert Dudley, an American. Mr Dudley is a much better choice. There is a criminal investigation of the incident, because 11 persons died. I suspect some BP employees may be afraid they will be arrested in the criminal prosecution, and this may include Mr Hayward. Therefore I doubt he will be visting the USA anymore.

[bullsnarfle]

86. Poor Poor Tony

Gee, poor Tony. "(L)ost his job", "infamy", "doubt he will be visiting the USA anymore". Sounds like maybe you want to give the poor boy a big ol' hug. What time does the pity party start?

On the other hand, the obscene platinum severance package he is getting should take a bit of the sting out of all that, don't you think? I mean, it is just so hard to feel all mopey when you are sitting on a beach on St. Kitts sipping Patron for the rest of your life. Bummer.

[Dr.Phool]

50. Heywood Jablome

BP's attitude.

[secondwind]

58. DAMN! K&R

[florida08]

61. Oil search comes up empty. But why are we still seeing it?

The search for underwater oil in local waterways is over, and preliminary results show no recoverable oil was found, Coast Guard officials said Wednesday...

The Subsurface Oil Assessment monitoring program, led by the NOAA and the U.S. Coast Guard for BP Incident Command in Mobile, focused only on recoverable oil in bays and areas out three miles into the Gulf.

Teams searched only in depths of water 6 feet and deeper, said Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer Mark Boivin, deputy director for near-shore operations at BP's Unified Command Center in Mobile.

"We were looking just for subsurface oil and not the (kind) of oil at Barrancas," Boivin said, referring to an area in shallow water off Pensacola Naval Air Station where BP cleanup crews continue to recover thousands of pounds of weathered oil sunk into the sand in Pensacola Bay.

http://www.pnj.com/article/20100916/NEWS01/9160322/Oil-search-comes-up-empty-But-why-are-we-still-seeing-it-

[bherrera]

77. The statement is evident to the educated reader

They were searching for recoverable oil in water depths of 6 feet or more. Why this depth? They didn't tell me, but it is sensible to think their vessels have a draft, and they have to navigate in water deeper than 6 feet.

Why is oil being found? They are finding biodegraded oil. This is oil which in the case you mention came in contact with the beach sand, and was able to penetrate deep into it as it was pushed by waves. The oil coats the sand particles, and adheres to them via polar bonds between the oil molecules and the sand, which is either silica or carbonate particles. The oil, once it is attached via these polar bonds, is difficult to move, and then bacteria found in the sea water eat it. If it is deep in the sand, the bacteria take more time because they like oxygen. Therefore, it is evident the beach cleaning effort has to look for the biodegraded oil which has been adhered to the sand particles. This is going to require washing of the sand, which can be done with steam, or with other methods, all of which are very complicated.

[Devil_Fish]

140. so why don't you get to work cleaning it Mr. BP mouth piece...NT

[fascisthunter]

64. nah... it's gotta be all lies... I mean look at her

she looks sketchy to me :sarcasm:

[bherrera]

78. I think she is ignorant

If you refer to the original post, if the woman is not lying to seek compensation, then she is merely ignorant. Fresh oil is not feasible at this stage in the incident. Unless it is fresh oil spilled by an eco-criminal seeking compensation.

[Vinca]

82. I know it's a stretch, but maybe we haven't been told the whole truth by BP.

Maybe there is oil oozing up from cracked casing. We have no way of knowing.

[liberation]

84. Wait, you mean a corporation would ever lie in order to protect their bottom line

when information may threaten their profits?

That is utter nonsense, coming from a non-educated observer! Especially given the great track of truthiness from BP during this whole fiasco, it is not like they got caught lying their teeth off multiple times... oh, wait.

;-)

[bherrera]

111. LOL, that is funny

I am not discussing BP or its reliability. I am discussing if the first post which started this thread made sense. I said it was non sense, and I explained why.

I have been following the incident, and there is no oil oozing from cracked casing, the well is monitored using cameras from remotely operated vehicles. As of today, it is sealed with cement, and a new set of control valves was installed on top. The old valves, the ones which failed, were taken to a NASA center, where they are being studied by experts under the direction of criminal investigation (FBI) personnel, because it is considered a criminal case.

You see, a lot of what I see posted is made up, or statements by people who don't bother to look at the information. The Federal government is providing good information.

[KoKo]

124. There is a way of knowing what BP did..Thorough INVESTIGATION..

Do you deny that that's what needs to be done? :shrug:

[valerief]

131. Yeah, we have to trust them just like we have to trust our electronic voting manufacturers. nt

[femrap]

89. How much is BP paying you

to play on the Internet? Do you get benefits? Free gas for your car? What's the deal?

[KoKo]

125. It's a question that must be asked of all BP Aplogists...because

unfortunately we know the amount of money that's being spent by BP on their PR Campaign..probably outweighs what will ever be given to the victims on the Gulf Coast.

It's been a pattern...so naturally many DU'ers who have a history of "watching disasters" and what happens afterwards when the "Rock Stars Leave after the Fund Raising Concert ...will always have questions.

Get Used to It!

[DeSwiss]

116. Who the hell are YOU to call someone ignorant???

- Don't bother responding as I have read your other posts and have placed you where you belong: IGNORE

[HCE SuiGeneris]

119. How the fuck do you know what is occurring on the whole of the ocean floor?

Get a grip.

[Generic Other]

126. "...oil spilled by an eco-criminal..."

Would that be BP? They are the only "eco-criminals" currently under discussion.

The ignorance I see here is not Kindra's. The oil and all of its toxic residue that she sees washing up on the beaches where she lives is making her community sick, not yours. You don't even live in the United States. You have accused all of us of being uninformed, agents of Republicans, anti-Obama and ignorant based on your citing of one or two government sources and personal opinion based on no firsthand knowledge of the situation whatsoever. You accuse many here of being dishonest or having agendas yet you refuse to divulge your own motive for spending an entire day on this thread attacking the integrity of the people of the Gulf who have been impacted and have been monitoring BP's spill for months. I have read hundreds of articles and studies in the past three months. Scientific studies, government websites, environmental groups, private citizens, and even BP propaganda. I am not a scientist, I am not a fisherman, I am not an eyewitness, but I am an informed citizen as are many of the people posting here at DU. I believe the people of the Gulf know more about what is happening to their beaches and their health than you do. And I believe their eyewitness accounts, photographs, and videos before I believe your bald-faced assurances that all is well.

I have no agenda for posting information I find other than the fact that I am worried about people I love who are living in this toxic poison. And knowing that I can't trust my own government to be honest. I am the citizen of a nation that clearly does not care about the welfare of its people, not when the welfare of corporations takes first priority. I will continue to

[Devil_Fish]

141. shut up all ready. NT

[nashville_brook]

71. i stand with Kindra.

[KoKo]

127. How much LOUDER does the VOICE HAVE TO GET..for MSM/Cable to Get Down THERE & INVESTIGATE?

What is taking so long for them to do this?

[scentopine]

132. The centrists and right wingers are trying to convince you that

its all better, that the invisible hand of god, Obama and the free market have worked their magic and its all over now.

Don't believe them. Not for one goddamn second. Anyone who continues to embrace the administrations drill baby drill strategy should be tossed out of office. We sold the Gulf of Mexico to BP for 20 billion dollars. Like we are pimping a $10 whore.

And BP WILL have its way with her. And us.


http://www.eoearth.org/article/exxon_valdez_oil_spill

ScienceDaily (Apr. 14, 2010) — Scientists in Alaska have discovered that lingering oil from the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill is still being ingested by wildlife more than 20 years after the disaster. The research, published in Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry, uses biomarkers to reveal long-term exposure to oil in harlequin ducks and demonstrates how the consequences of oil spills are measured in decades rather than years.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100414111018.htm

What Is Slowing The Biodegradation Of Valdez Oil?

Posted on: Sunday, 17 January 2010, 13:35 CST

The combination of low concentrations of oxygen and nutrients in the lower layers of the beaches of Alaska's Prince William Sound is slowing the aerobic biodegradation of oil remaining from the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill, according to researchers at Temple University.

Considered one of the worst environmental disasters in history, the Exxon Valdez spilled more than 11 million gallons of crude oil into Alaska's Prince William Sound, contaminating some 1,300 miles of shoreline, killing thousands of wildlife and severely impacting Alaska's fishing industry and economy.

In the first five years after the accident, the oil was disappearing at a rate of about 70 percent and calculations showed the oil would be gone within the next few years. However, about seven or eight years ago it was discovered that the oil had in fact slipped to a disappearance rate of around four percent a year and it is estimated that nearly 20,000 gallons of oil remains in the beaches.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1810270/what_is_slowing_the_biodegradation_of_valdez_oil/index.html

The amount of Exxon Valdez oil remaining substantially exceeds the sum total of all previous oil pollution on beaches in Prince William Sound, including oil spilled during the 1964 earthquake. This Exxon Valdez oil is decreasing at a rate of 0-4% per year, with only a 5% chance that the rate is as high as 4%. At this rate, the remaining oil will take decades and possibly centuries to disappear entirely.

http://www.evostc.state.ak.us/recovery/lingeringoil.cfm

In the early 1990s, ExxonMobil funded research that claimed the Sound was well on its way to recovery. But new scientific research, conducted over the last 14 years, states the opposite. The latest study, published in Science magazine, concluded that far from having recovered the Sound area continues to experience problems as a result of oil remaining from the spill.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/features/exxon-valdez-disaster-15-year/

Washington, DC -- The Obama administration is hiding the memos and e-mails behind official scientific assessments of the size of the massive BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, according to a lawsuit filed today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER). Estimates of the leak rate inexplicably rose five-fold amid reports that political appointees sought to low ball the size of the spill.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20016571-10391695.html

[MrsBrady]

142. K&R in hope that we get some answers n/t