Progressives Have To Realize Obama Is NOT On Our Side

[Charleston Chew]

Run time: 08:17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3GAoUtIgCU   Posted on YouTube: November 15, 2010 By YouTube Member: MOXNEWSd0tCOM Views on YouTube: 154   Posted on DU: November 15, 2010 By DU Member: Charleston Chew Views on DU: 2437

 

[polichick]

1. Really interesting discussion - they're right, we are at that point where...

...liberals/progressives no longer take as a given that Obama's agenda is close to our own - so it's time for Plan B.

What Plan B involves is still unclear - some say hold his feet to the fire as much as possible. Others say primary him. Others say it'll take a new party. Some of us (me included) say it might take all of the above.

I'm not sure what the next big move for liberals is going to look like, but I ran across this quote yesterday and it sure did resonate:

"One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time." Andre Gide

(I'm hoping it won't be TOO long a time.)


p.s. That Israel deal is beyond horrible - almost unimaginably weak.

[Ramulux]

8. Thats a damn good quote

I think a lot of people on this site would do well to heed its advice.

[defendandprotect]

16. Thank you... keep in mind liberals like me are just sitting waiting for Plan B to take effect....

WE really can't go anywhere until the entire bloc of liberals and progressives

make up their minds to act!!


:woohoo:

But at least we've reached the stage of mentioning a Plan B!!!



:)

[polichick]

21. There's something happening here...

What it is ain't exactly clear...

YET.

We seem to be nearing critical mass in terms of people knowing we have to move to Plan B, and a lot of us are perched at the edge of our seats waiting to see what's next. :)

[defendandprotect]

23. Well, it's up to all of us to be discussing what Plan B might be ....

we need some elbow room here to discuss what to do --

if it can't be discussed on DU, then we'd have to discuss it elsewhere.

HOWEVER, it's long been obvious that the Democratic Party has been co-opted

by corporate forces trying to move the party to the right. Capturing the leadership

is, of course, one of the first moves.

We now have one right wing party and one radical right wing party.

Perhaps we need a companion DU called "liberal underground" or small "d" democratic

underground?

[polichick]

25. I've been wondering if Bold Progressives might be the group to...

...organize behind.

[defendandprotect]

27. Wasn't aware of them... do you have some experience with them...?

Took a quick look and didn't come up with any org which looked like what you're

talking about --

Did find one "Progressive Change" --

but then I wonder why they call themselves progressives and not liberals?

Is there a difference?


And, actually, I think we need much deeper change than a new organization --

We need to organize unemployed in a movement --

and Seniors in a movement --

but the question is really more what to do about two parties both acting for corporate

interests?

[polichick]

28. It's the group that did the Olbermann petition - Adam Green, one of the founders...

...appears on msnbc a lot and seems to have a lot of the same concerns I do.

Here's something about him:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-green


I'm thinking it will take a media savvy group for people to organize around - labor, people like Michael Moore and Ed Shultz, etc.

And it'll take a professional media campaign that reeducates the public.

[defendandprotect]

31. Right ... that's it ... "Progressive Change" ... they've run a lot of the petitions.....

not only on KO -- also to "Change Congress" and other petitions --

but the KO one was timely and an instant organizing aid to round up support for him. Good job!

Also Green worked for 4 years with MoveOn!

And here I see where you got the "Bold Progressives" reference ...

Progressive Change Campaign Committee (PCCC) -- Bold Progressives
Join me and over 400,000 others in being part of the bold progressive movement. Cutting-edge activism at the Progressive Change Campaign Committee. Click here.
boldprogressives.org - Cached


Btw, two bits of good news I picked up from the site -- Clarence Thomas' wife dropped out

of the T-bagger group -- and Lieberman may bite the dust in 2012 !!


Next question is does he have anything to do with the Greens who used to run AirAmerica???

I'm looking -- a lot of Adam Greens around!

:)

[polichick]

38. Hadn't thought about the AirAmerica Greens - don't know if there is a connection. nt

[timefortherevolution]

2. Don't need to watch the link to know this to be true.

HILARY WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

3. Yeah, because you know Hillary is SOOOOOOOOO liberal!!

:sarcasm:

[INdemo]

9. I don't believe she would have sold us out like Obama has

If Obama would have taken care of the middle class instead of his corporate power group..the banks and Wall St we would be celebrating an even larger majority in Congress..There is no doubt some will jump all over my case and defend Obama but I believe Obama is reaching the point where he can't win a second term because he refuses to give up on this bipartisan bs.He thinks it is possible that Republicans accept his legislative agenda..
..Bill Clinton was not exactly a liberal but my earning with Clinton as President were highest ever..

[timefortherevolution]

17. She would have been more liberal than this sell-out.

[polichick]

22. She might have bombed Iran too - I chose him over her because...

...she's more of a hawk. That's not exactly "liberal."

[defendandprotect]

24. Think both Obama and Hillary were false choices given to us by TPB.....

Had I known that Obama was identifying himself as a "New Dem" I wouldn't have

voted for him either!


Meanwhile, when SC Justice Thurgood Marshall was getting ready to retire, journalists

were asking him if he though Poppy Bush would honor his seat as a "black" seat ....

Here's what Thurgood Marshall said --

"It's not the color of a snake that's important. What's important about a snake is

whether or not it bites!"


And that advice doesn't only apply to color -- it applies to gender, as well!

[Enthusiast]

37. Exactly

Corporate interests were covered no matter the primary outcome. It is foolhardy to think the PTB would do it otherwise. And they will cover their ass in the next election and have probably decided who the players will be and who will prevail in which state etc.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

29. Suurreee....

Of course she would!

:sarcasm:

[defendandprotect]

18. How ... Hillary is part of DLC leadership .... !!! !!!

[jonathan_seer]

33. How ? Well for one thing she has shown far more fighting spirit

whether she was losing or winning in her national career than President Obama has since he took office.

Perhaps because you supported President Obama her persistence in pursuing her primary campaign just seems like pointless stupid stubbornness on HRC's part.

In another context say in a battle of wills with Republican opponents you would have seen it as it was - a strong, unrelenting fighting spirit that was not willing to back down.

That "fighting spirit" which many detractors considered pushy, bitchy.

Even a lot of women said her stubbornness just "turned them off".

Now we see how sad that was, for stubbornness is a key element in the ability to fight the good fight and win.

Without stubbornnes you will quickly yield the line without much effort to hold it.

That stubbornness is the difference between HRC and the President Obama we know today.

Additionally President Obama is now clearly NOT a Liberal or Progressive.

He is an extreme pragmatic centrist, willing to compromise even before the negotiations start.

HRC started out her career as an UNcompromising ideologue college Lefty typical of her day.

As she grew older and wised up to the ways of National Politics she adopted a pragmatic facade of sorts to deal with the more moderate public.

She did this after her public humiliation due to the failure of her health plan.

The Wing Nut team used her history as an uncompromising lefty to destroy her credibility.

That was part of a learning curve over a decade long that President Obama did not have.

It both put steal in her spine, while simultaneously making her understand that her ideological side is not the best side to communicate with a minimally aware, normally apathetic public that loathed change - thus the facade.

Progressives and Liberals so dazzled by President Obama's obvious real talents discounted the need for President Obama to learn the same lessons HRC did in her time in DC.

They figured, and perhaps he figured the charm that worked like magic and got him elected would eventually spread to all Americans. It didn't, and his response was to cave in to gain their support.

If one thing is certain, HRC would not have done that. She's too stubborn, and as President she'd be so close to being able to make changes her liberal ideological side always dreamed of making.

She would have no illusions as to what her opponents were like.

She would already know what "dealing effectively" with them meant.

She also would have had a former president as her unofficial adviser 24/7.

Those elements which you seem to think mean nothing are the ones that would have made an HRC presidency far less likely to experience the failings, in particular a lack of will to fight, that we've seen in Team Obama.

[Charleston Chew]

35. Laugh Out Loud!

Hillary? makes Obama look like Kucinich.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

4. All I have to say about it is President Obama better not serve dessert of *Tax cuts to the rich....

FIGHT DON'T CAVE!!!!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

5. Now, that's the voice of reason. Well done! n/t

[Iliyah]

7. I'm totally

progressive-liberal and still thinks positive of Pres. Obama. Ya think he's not on our side, heck think again. I remember Pres. Clinton years and the kiss ass that went on and they still tried to oust him by the big "I". That was fun. Ya ain't seen nothing yet when the tea bats comes in like the clones they are. The American people will get an eye full of crazy.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

30. I'm still in his corner, but this is a key position that he ran on. I just can't

fathom him giving into expanding tax cuts for the wealthy. How would he square that with campaign rhetoric. Even more important than that, it's just not feasible.

Extend the cuts to the middle class if there has to be any at all.

My personal view is that they all should expire if we're serious about deficit reduction. Seeing as though that won't happen, I'd like to see an extension for those who desperate need it: THE MIDDLE CLASS.

Other than that, I am a Obama fan despite is shortcomings. Why? Because the alternative, which includes Hillary Clinton, is simply unacceptable.

[struggle4progress]

6. No progressive movement ever won by playing "talking heads"

The progressives won in the past by analyzing in detail the actual power structures, with actual names and addresses, and putting real people in motion against those strructures

[Poll_Blind]

10. The answer Sam Seder gives about 4 min, 10 seconds into this is...

...absolutely priceless. At the end of the day it doesn't matter whether it's 14 dimensional chess or not. It's about delivering and that's not happening.

PB

[glitch]

11. Sam Seder speaks for me. Really good to see him on here. K & R nt

[defendandprotect]

32. Used to listen to him on AirAmerica .... haven't heard him in a long time ....

[emulatorloo]

12. I think I am starting to get what Jon Stewart was saying

[humbled_opinion]

13. WHAT? Your all kidding right?

According to the Righties, and now the Independents whom they swayed to their camp, Obama is a far left radical Progressive, his agenda was damn near Socialist right?

What the right has effectively done is re-positioned the center of the electorate and they re-positioned it far to the right. We all know that Obama was a centrist, the key word is WE. My hope that he was a true progressive was lost, when I realized that he failed to defend our principles and our causes at every turn and instead bargained with the repukes as if he shared their vision of America.

The problem with all of this is that because Obama championed issues like Health care reform, Cap and Trade, The environment, the right of workers and labor as well as some Government expansion for job growth, he was pilloried by the right as everything wrong with Progressivism because he never defended and stood up for his principles and he failed to lucidly communicate those ideals to the general public.

So here we are.... Emboldened conservatives both Democrats and Republicans alike about to reshape America so far to the right that we won't recognize it. They will gut every social program, they will destroy the working class and empower the corporations so that we will never regain control of this country.... You are about to see generations of good work undone by these ass clowns, Obama included.

[Poboy]

14. k&r !

[defendandprotect]

15. That's been obvious since the first day after the election ...!!! Eloped with the DLC ...!!

And Wall Street -- !!!

What more did we need to know?

Oh ... maybe that Obama and Baucus were two of the most hightly sponsored Dems

by the health care industry?



PS: .... if we merged the services as every other nation has done we could

immediately save 28% on MIC budget!! Sanders has frequently spoken about that!

[defendandprotect]

19. Sam Seder is the first I've heard telling the public SS has nothing to do with the DEBT!!!

And it doesn't! It's paid for by employees and employers into FICA --

and has run HUGE SURPLUSSES FOR DECADES -- which right wing has used as a SLUSH FUND

for wars and tax cuts for rich.

We need to raise the ceiling on annual incomes which I think only go to $106,000 now ...

or is is $160,000 ? AFTER THAT, the wealthy don't pay any more FICA on their salaries.

Even if they get a $40 million bonus!!

[Charleston Chew]

34. Social Security Broke: That's Bullshit (Sam Seder)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x479063

[Poboy]

36. Yes. Why is that? Why is he the only one? Why such FAILURE on our side?

Why such FAILURE on our side?
Why won't they forcefully tell the truth that SS is NOT in trouble?

Fucking pathetic.

[defendandprotect]

42. It's been a decades long propaganda ruse to confuse the public ....

and again with little and NO RESPONSE from the Democrats!

Only Nader and Sanders will constantly pick up that issue and explain it to

the public -- and a handful of other Dems.

The Social Security Administration used to send people out to talk to workers

at businesses about the program -- how it was paid, what the administrative costs

were .03% -- what the benefits were -- it's basically an INSURANCE program.

And, it would be quite interesting to price something like that in the private market!!

It covers your children -- disability -- etal.

That information program was stopped a long time ago -- obviously to benefit those

who wanted to confuse the public.

[defendandprotect]

20. Can anyone imagine we still pay SUBSIDIES TO OIL COMPANIES and Simpson wants to cut SS...!!!!

[jonnyblitz]

26. I never thought he was. nt

[SargeUNN]

39. And I guess the REPUBLICANS are? Get Real we are

working against ourselves with this crap.

[BrklynLiberal]

40. Kick and Rec..

[Charleston Chew]

41. Sam Seder Links

1.)Janeane Garofalo, Sam Seder & Gore Vidal - 06/04/04
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x525578

2.)Janeane Garofalo, Sam Seder & Gore Vidal - 06/04/04
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x525581

3.)Joy Behar, Sam Seder, Curtis Sliwa Discuss Jaun Williams
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x520237

4.)Dan Rather, Sam Seder, MSNBC
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=520224&mesg_id=520224

5.)A Message From Sam Seder
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x521559

6.)Progressives Have To Realize Obama Is NOT On Our Side
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x525590