Dr Wakefield Defends His Autism Vaccine Research pt.2

[Dokkie]

Run time: 04:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkrHmNE1hN0   Posted on YouTube: January 06, 2011 By YouTube Member: MOXNEWSd0tCOM Views on YouTube: 219   Posted on DU: January 06, 2011 By DU Member: Dokkie Views on DU: 1299

 

[sharp_stick]

1. How is a fraud doc

a political video?

[hlthe2b]

2. I am slightly curious how he is attempting to defend it...

But not curious enough to watch it. Ah, what a dilemma. ;)

[subsuelo]

3. if you watch the first one, he defends himself fairly well.

Problem is, Andersoon Cooper constantly interrupts him and goes into attack mode, completely ignoring what Wakefield is saying. I will be keeping an eye in the alternative media sources for this story. I could be wrong, but from what I have seen and read so far, I trust Dr. Wakefield, not the British medical establishment and pharmaceutical industry.

[hlthe2b]

4. I know the science and statistics...

and have long known that his study would not hold up to scrutiny. I would not be giving Dr. Wakefield benefit of the doubt. I was merely curious how he was attempting to defend himself.

[subsuelo]

5. Has the US govt not been quietly settling vaccine linked autism cases since 1991?

[hlthe2b]

6. No...

You need to do some reading from knowledgeable and reputable sources to understand the issues of vaccine adverse effects, how they are reported, how causality is (and is not established) and the rare circumstances that have led to settlements.

Here is a starting place... http://vaers.hhs.gov/index
and then you can search at the cdc.gov website for additional information.

[subsuelo]

9. CBS-News article: "Family to Receive $1.5M+ in Vaccine-Autism Court Award"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015982-10391695.html

The first court award in a vaccine-autism claim is a big one. CBS News has learned the family of Hannah Poling will receive more than $1.5 million dollars for her life care; lost earnings; and pain and suffering for the first year alone.

What's this then?

[hlthe2b]

10. You suggested that the "government was quitetly settling"

This is discussed in the links provided.

[subsuelo]

13. Has the U.S. govt been settling any vaccine-induced autism cases?

Also, where exactly on the government website you link to, is there discussion of these cases?

Thanks


(edited to drop the '1991' date as it seems to me more relevant to talk about actual known settlements)

[MineralMan]

7. No. Where did you hear or read that?

[subsuelo]

8. Huff Post article: "Govt concedes Vaccine-Autism Case in Fed. Court"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html

After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.

The unprecedented concession was filed on November 9, and sealed to protect the plaintiff's identify. It was obtained through individuals unrelated to the case.

[hlthe2b]

11. That child had a rare mitochondrial defect...

The settlement was not based on scientific establishment of causality. Settlements happen in court for a multitude of reasons, including the need to avoid lengthy and costly litigation or where the state of science/facts could not definitively settle the question EITHER way.

This was a SINGLE case.

[subsuelo]

21. If a kid with peanut allergy dies after eating a peanut....

Quoting the article's author:

When a kid with peanut allergy eats a peanut and dies, we don’t say “his underlying metabolic condition was significantly aggravated to the extent of manifesting as an anaphylactic shock with features of death.” No, we say the peanut killed the poor boy.

How is this different from the government's own written concession:

“The vaccinations received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of ASD.”


At the least, could we remove from this particular case the suggestion that compensation was awarded simply due to avoid lengthy litigation - that seems extremely far-fetched to me.

[AtheistCrusader]

30. No, you would say the boy was deathly allergic to peanuts.

The only time I would say something like 'the peanut killed the boy' would be if the kid choked on it or similar.

[MineralMan]

12. I read the story at your link.

First, it's written by an anti-vaxxer. Second, the individual in question had an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which the vaccine may have exacerbated. Third, this case was in 2008. Finally, where did the "since 1991" part of your claim that the government had been settling autism cases supposedly caused by vaccination come from?

You posted one case, which is questionable regarding vaccination and autism, given the underlying mitochondrial disorder. Where are the others?

[subsuelo]

16. I didn't make any claim about 1991. I asked a question.

The claim comes from Wakefield and his supporters, so I am simply interested in where that claim comes from.

I posted an article to show there had been at least one settlement, after you decisively answered no there hadn't.

I'm not in this to debate either way, really. I simply find Dr Wakefield and his supporters far more trustworthy than Big Pharma, CNN and the medical establishment, however I could be wrong. Perhaps both sides (Wakefield vs the medical establishment) have something to cover up?

[AtheistCrusader]

29. Yeah, and John Edwards made his fortune chasing ambulances over Cerebral Palsy

blaming the doctors that performed the deliveries for the problem, allowing reduced oxygen supplies due to twisted umbilicals, etc.

Problem is, research now shows intrapartum asphyxia is responsible for less than 10% of the cases.


This clown has been discredited, as he can't even reproduce his own research using his own methods. It is important to discount everything he's claimed, and evaluate the possible link between vaccines and autism, based on the remaining, credible evidence.

[MineralMan]

14. After some investigation, that is a claim made by

Wakefield himself, and I can find no support whatever for it anywhere. In fact, two cases in 2010 were rejected by the special claims court on the grounds that there was no cause and effect relationship between vaccines and autism. The only case I could find was one where the child in question had an underlying mitochondrial disease and ended up with encephalopathy, which can have symptoms similar to autism.

If you're going to defend this fraud, at least don't use his own statements to do so without some sort of backup evidence. Unless you can show that the government has been "quietly settling" these cases "since 1991," I'll just take this claim from Wakefield as more lies.

[hlthe2b]

15. Yes. ++++

[subsuelo]

17. please see my post #16 thanks. n/t

[MineralMan]

18. I did see it. In it you said you trust Dr. Wakefield.

I'm at a complete loss to understand why you would...

[subsuelo]

19. I find Wakefield and his supporters more trustworthy than Big Pharma and the mainstream media

There is a lot of money at stake for Big Pharma is one reason why.

I'm also suspicious of the reporting by Cooper Anderson and CNN where they simply go into attack mode and ignore everything Wakefield has to say. I think there is a smear campaign and an effort being made to to prevent valid vaccination research.

The corporate industry is in this for one thing only: to make money. Dr Wakefield seems in this as part of a sincere effort to help and understand vaccinations and causes of autism. It's just my opinion, and I admit I could be wrong.

[hlthe2b]

20. I dealt with the aftermath of a child who died of measles encephalitis

I dealt with the grief and guilt of her parents, who had to come to the realization that her death could have been readily prevented with MMR vaccination as repeatedly recommended.

It took one hell of a lot out of me and I'm sorry, but I can no longer summon the patience to deal with those who hold conspiracy views as you do, yet refuse to do the research to reassure yourself. I wish you well, but I simply can not.

[Dokkie]

23. I think that is the problem

You think its something for conspiracy theorist but how about the parents who have a gut feeling that the multiple vaccine shots cause autism? Why cant the govt ease their fears by providing an option for single vaccine shots? You have to remember that even Dr. Wakefield is not anti vaccines but is an advocate for a better delivery system.

You will never understand until u have taken care of a child with autism

[hlthe2b]

25. I do understand, more than I am ready to discuss.

And, I hate how the understandable fear and concerns have been exploited to the detriment of so many. I agree with MM. This discussion will go no where and I am done. I wish you well.

[subsuelo]

28. That is disappointing to see you decide to exit the discussion.

I think you have made some good points. I guess I should place my focus elsewhere for the day anyway. I wish you well too.

[subsuelo]

26. I am sympathetic of that.

It still seems to me a separate issue of judging whether or not an effort exists to prevent valid vaccination research.

The good that may come from MMR vaccinations doesn't mean there is no effort to cover up potential harm from the same vaccine. In fact it would make perfect sense for the corporate industry to tout the positives and pretend there are no negatives, then go on with a smear campaign against those attempting to reveal the negative outcomes. In fact I find no logical problem with saying that yes MMR vaccines can do good, and yes a conspiracy might exist to hide the bad. Of course the industry would want to cover up the bad while selling the public on everything good. Makes perfect sense really... again - they're in it to make money. They're not in this with anyone's best interests other than the bottom line. Of course they would cover up the harmful effects. Kind of like the tobacco industry selling how cool and enjoyable smoking is while pretending there is no link between smoking cigarettes and lung cancer!

Anyway I am sorry about your friend and understand that factor in shaping your view in this. It's a complicated and emotional subject to be sure. Again I admit I could be wrong. I simply trust one side (Wakefield) more than the other (corporate/big pharma industry).

[MineralMan]

22. I see. So no amount of evidence to the contrary will affect you?

I'm done with this discussion. Blind faith in people who have been shown to have falsified their research is incomprehensible to me.

[subsuelo]

27. I think you fail to see that this is a matter of trust.

I trust the corporate industry less than I trust Wakefield. I don't have a "blind faith" in either. See?

Although you condemn a "blind faith" you see in others, aren't you sort of putting a blind faith into those who claim to have this "evidence" to the contrary?

I simply suggest holding both up to scrutiny and see which makes more sense.

[Dokkie]

24. 1000+

[AtheistCrusader]

32. Autism/Vaccine link advocates have already had their chance

when they demanded mercury was the cause, and should be removed from the vaccines. (it was used as a preservative, Thimerosal)

The industry moved to accomodate, Thimerosal was removed, and surprise surprise, no change in new autism case rates.

Swing and a miss. I will wait for peer reviewed, reproducible studies showing causal links to Autism before I advocate making any more changes to products, or encourage dangrous behavior that brings on lots of other diseases, like a resurgence in Mumps and Rubella or Hep B beacuse people are afraid to vaccinate.

That shit can kill kids outright.

[keepCAblue]

31. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is a shill for main stream media and big pharma...

His "expertise" is often found to be biased and inaccurate. Just ask Michael Moore.