egocentricism and Narcissitic Personality Disorder

[BlueStorm]

Does anyone else get accused of this?

My mom is constantly accusing me of having "narcissism" when I tend to have things revolve around me. Like for example if someone is talking about wanting to join a gym club then I usually will pipe up and say that I want to as well. Or that I do things without thinking about what others would feel. Like Saturday I went to her house and she had made sloppy joes. Well I had used the last three buns and had three sloppy joes so when my stepdad went to get one he complained that the buns were gone. My mom asked me how many I had and I said "three." and then she got on me about "asking if others would like some, that Speedo hadn't eaten yet." Well damn I thought that he did. She always say that I always "have to be the center of attention." Now I know that people with Asperger's tend to be somewhat egocentric but I don't like these accusations.

I mean yes I am a bit egocentric but it is a real self-esteem downer when you have someone accuse you of it and isn't Narcissitic Personality Disorder something else entirely?

Blue

[Stargazer09]

1. That's not right

Your mom seems like she's being mean more than anything else. If she was making sloppy joes for everyone, why didn't she make sure there were enough buns for everyone, or at the very least, let you know that your stepdad hadn't eaten yet?

You're not trying to be the center of attention in this case, and there's certainly nothing wrong with being interested in doing the same things that your friends are doing. After all, going to the gym is really boring if you're going alone, and if you have a friend interested in it, then you'll both benefit from joining together.

Obviously, I don't know you, but to me, you really don't sound like a narcissist.

:hug:

[bloom]

2. "the gulf between Asperger's and pathological narcissism is vast."

I had copied this from somewhere (somewhere from this guy - who I think self-identifies as a narcissist - http://samvak.tripod.com/npdglance.html ). Basically - your mother thinks she knows more than she does. I suppose people use the term narcissist loosely - like the word "crazy" - most people don't read the DSM, for instance.

...the gulf between Asperger's and pathological narcissism is vast.

The narcissist switches between social agility and social impairment voluntarily. His social dysfunctioning is the outcome of conscious haughtiness and the reluctance to invest scarce mental energy in cultivating relationships with inferior and unworthy others. When confronted with potential Sources of Narcissistic Supply, however, the narcissist easily regains his social skills, his charm, and his gregariousness.
Many narcissists reach the highest rungs of their community, church, firm, or voluntary organization. Most of the time, they function flawlessly - though the inevitable blowups and the grating extortion of Narcissistic Supply usually put an end to the narcissist's career and social liaisons.

The Asperger's patient often wants to be accepted socially, to have friends, to marry, to be sexually active, and to sire offspring. He just doesn't have a clue how to go about it. His affect is limited. His initiative - for instance, to share his experiences with nearest and dearest or to engage in foreplay - is thwarted. His ability to divulge his emotions stilted. He is incapable or reciprocating and is largely unaware of the wishes, needs, and feelings of his interlocutors or counterparties.

Inevitably, Asperger's patients are perceived by others to be cold, eccentric, insensitive, indifferent, repulsive, exploitative or emotionally-absent. To avoid the pain of rejection, they confine themselves to solitary activities - but, unlike the schizoid, not by choice. They limit their world to a single topic, hobby, or person and dive in with the greatest, all-consuming intensity, excluding all other matters and everyone else. It is a form of hurt-control and pain regulation.

Thus, while the narcissist avoids pain by excluding, devaluing, and discarding others - the Asperger's patient achieves the same result by withdrawing and by passionately incorporating in his universe only one or two people and one or two subjects of interest. Both narcissists and Asperger's patients are prone to react with depression to perceived slights and injuries - but Asperger's patients are far more at risk of self-harm and suicide.

[Deja Q]

7. Bingo.

The Asperger's patient often wants to be accepted socially, to have friends, to marry, to be sexually active, and to sire offspring. He just doesn't have a clue how to go about it. His affect is limited. His initiative - for instance, to share his experiences with nearest and dearest or to engage in foreplay - is thwarted. His ability to divulge his emotions stilted. He is incapable or reciprocating and is largely unaware of the wishes, needs, and feelings of his interlocutors or counterparties.

Inevitably, Asperger's patients are perceived by others to be cold, eccentric, insensitive, indifferent, repulsive, exploitative or emotionally-absent. To avoid the pain of rejection, they confine themselves to solitary activities - but, unlike the schizoid, not by choice. They limit their world to a single topic, hobby, or person and dive in with the greatest, all-consuming intensity, excluding all other matters and everyone else. It is a form of hurt-control and pain regulation.

Thus, while the narcissist avoids pain by excluding, devaluing, and discarding others - the Asperger's patient achieves the same result by withdrawing and by passionately incorporating in his universe only one or two people and one or two subjects of interest. Both narcissists and Asperger's patients are prone to react with depression to perceived slights and injuries - but Asperger's patients are far more at risk of self-harm and suicide.

[bloom]

3. Here is more info on "The Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)"

http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/ddhome.htm (then click on our desk

The Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)

Essential Feature

The essential feature of the narcissistic personality
disorder is a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need
for admiration, and lack of empathy (DSM-IV™, 1994, p.
658). Gunderson, et.al, (Livesly, ed., 1995, p. 208)
notes that the grandiosity may not be overt or may
involve arrogant and haughty behavior.

Kantor (1992, pp. 203-204) describes the clinical
characteristics of NPD as:

• inordinate self-pride;

• self-concern;

• an exaggeration of the importance of one's
experiences and feelings;

• ideas of perfection;

• a reluctance to accept blame or criticism;

• absence of altruism although gestures may be made
for the sake of appearance;

• empathy deficit; and,

• grandiosity.

Frances, et.al. (1995, p. 374) add:

• entitlement;

• shallowness;

• preoccupation with fame, wealth, and achievement;

• craving admiration, attention and praise;

• placing excessive emphasis on displaying beauty
and power.


Beck (1990, p. 49) describes the key elements of NPD
as presumed superiority and self-aggrandizing
behavior. These individuals also give evidence of
intense motivation to seek perfection and a feeling
state of emptiness, rage and envy (Masterson, 1981, p.
7). They are vulnerable to the most negligible slights
and are prone to withdraw and become inaccessible when
feeling offended (Benjamin, 1993, p. 141).... <much more>

[BlueStorm]

4. Well there is some in there that describes me, lol

But I guess Asperger's and NPD gets mixed up alot.

My mom does have a tendency to act like she knows what she is talking about and it's really annoying. I was over at her house today with my sister and she tells me that my stepdad was upset about my behavior when it came to the food.

The sloppy joe thing and then Sunday we had pork steaks, well I wanted another piece and I started cutting through one of them when he came up and said "Hey what are you doing, I wanted that piece." Well hell if I knew!!!

Then my mom let me have the half that was on there that was for her. What I was doing was cutting off the meat that didn't have the bone in it.

She said that I need to be more considerate and ask before I decide to take seconds. That I have to think about what other people want. Well gee, if she knows all about Asperger's like she claims, she would know that I sometimes don't think about stuff like that, of having to ask or whatever.

Ugh, I've been up since 9:30 this morning, I had to take my sister into the med center at 1:00 to have a look at her hip. It turns out it was sciatica.

I'm just frustrated today.

Blue

[idgiehkt]

5. in my case

my misdiagnoses of Bipolar opened me up to a world of b.s. from my family, especially my Dad. It sucks to be the only officially diagnosed person in a sick, f*cked up family...not speaking for you but that is my case. I recently did confront my Dad with the fact that that was a misdiagnosis, among other things, and it felt good.

I like what someone posted about the difference between Aspergers and NPD. That was pretty painful to read, but so true, especially the part about not being able to participate. Earlier I read through some threads in the lounge. I post in there regularly but in truth I feel very cut off. I feel like there is a vibe going on in there that I just don't get, I don't get what they are getting. It's strange, and I really can't describe it.

What I hear you saying is that your mom is calling you a narcissist, more than saying you have NPD. Every human being has some degree of narcissism. If you believe what Sigmund Freund theorized about the human psyche, everyone has an inner narcissist called the 'id', it's our most basic component that wants to satisfy our drives and desires. Though I don't buy everything he wrote, I think there is truth in it.

I know for me personally I am fed up, and I have made it known that I am fed up, with my family assigning negative traits that have nothing to do with my diagnoses or with reality onto me because of my other problems such as aspergers, substance abuse issues (though it's been 5 years since my last use and almost 15 since I did anything habitually). I have drawn a line because I no longer believe I'm the bad person they needed to be so they could dump their toxic sh*t all over me as the 'scapegoat' in the family. No more. I may not be able to stop what goes on behind my back but I do confront when it happens in my face.

[bloom]

6. "That was pretty painful to read..."

I wondered about posting it because it was pretty harsh. And that is how that guy is. But I thought it can be good to hear what blunt people say. People can take it or leave it.


As far as: I have drawn a line because I no longer believe I'm the bad person they needed to be so they could dump their toxic sh*t all over me as the 'scapegoat' in the family.

Roles like that can stink and be hard to break out of. I'm the only one who didn't (at least get caught) act out growing up - so I felt like I have to play the opposite role. I hate it too.

It doesn't surprise me to hear about dysfunctional types of families, though - esp. when there are genetic things involved in the AS - and all of the OCD and other tendencies.

I try to be objective about it - but I don't know if that really helps. It does in a way and doesn't in another. You can have everyone all figured out - but so then what? If anything - it can seem to create more distance.

[BlueStorm]

9. .....

Earlier I read through some threads in the lounge. I post in there regularly but in truth I feel very cut off. I feel like there is a vibe going on in there that I just don't get, I don't get what they are getting. It's strange, and I really can't describe it.

I feel the same exact way. I am not as witty as some of the people here on DU and I try to be but it is very difficult. I can't come up with snarky comments and what not. It's almost like there is a certain disconnect in my brain that just doesn't allow it.

Blue

[Rosemary2205]

8. Egocentric

Yes NPD is something different entirely.

My husband is on the autism spectrum and he is most definately egocentric. However, if someone just takes the time to politely point out to him his actions will negatively affect someone else he is ready and willing to make a minor adjustment that is suggested to him. (such as Hey sweetie, make sure you save buns and sloppy joes for Dad)

The hard part is always having to think ahead of reminding the one with autism ahead of time. In your case remembering to catch you before you go making up all 3 buns. These are little meaningless things but the stress of always thinking about what the autistic one will get into next gets tiresome. Sometimes you just wish you could let your guard down and they would be considerate. Of course this sometimes like asking for blood from a turnip. It can be frustrating for all involved, for the "normal" one and for the autistic one. It is a delicate balancing act and there are bound to be time when one or all have just had enough of tap dancing around the autism.

My very humble advice is to tell Mom you know she gets frustrated and you'd appreciate in the future if she would just give you a polite heads up on what the other people in the house need ahead of time. Tell her you are not being selfish, you are being autistic - and you need her help not her judgement.