I need your help/insights, whatever you can offer. Please. Please. Please.

[BeHereNow]

Dear AS Duers,

I am at my wit's end.
The past month has been hell.
No really, HELL.

I suspect that my daughter (20 yrs old) is an undiagnosed aspie.
She herself told me that she thought she might be a year ago after learning about
it in a college psych class.

She has always been different, in a unique and, to me, wonderous way.
However, ever since she launched into the world, college, independent living
etc... I have watched her disintergrate. Extreme lonliness, self medicating
surrounded by a circus of losers who she informs me are better than
being alone; complete social awkwardeness; crippling actually and so forth.
Describes feeling completely alone even when with her "friends" a pack
of hyenas by my measuring stick, but the first people she made friends
with at college.

Long story short...
I was called to the city where she lives by a doctor who told me I needed to come.
Severe depression and self medicating behavior.

I went- took her to two different psychiatrists who confirmed the
depression and self medicating problem.
I understand this can happen to young adult aspies. No?

So three of the specialists I saw told us that the depression
could not be treated until the substance dependency was addressed-
SO, I brought her home and tonight she agreed to try a treatment facility.
We checked in. Bad went to worse.

I got home to find a desperate email from her begging to come home.
She has sleep difficulties, which I understand is par for the course
with some aspies- she has a program on her computer that
plays some sort of sleep aid- I had asked them if she could
use it upon admission- they said "no problem."

Well, they took her laptop and said she had to reach some level
before she could earn it. WRONG approach for my daughter who
had done nothing but comply. She did not go in there as a
"bad" girl, she went in severely depressed for what I believe is
related to an aspie lonliness depression that she had been self medicating.

PLEASE HELP.

I am at the end of my rope.
She and I are very close and i only want her to feel
better. I don't think I've done the right thing for her.
But honestly, she is so depressed and I am so afraid
for her in the self medicating area.
I don't know what to do.
I simply don't know what to do.

BHN

[MichiganVote]

1. What you are asking is what can you do....

Trying to figure out what you can do is one thing...trying to figure out what you can control is something else.

But let's look at what you can't control. First of all, if the girl has Aspergers you can't change it, so you can't control that.

Secondly, you can't change the fact that she began to self medicate. What she used to self medicate or how much she used, you can't change. So you can't control that either...

Thirdly, she is an adult, she has the right to make mistakes w/regard to friends and you can't change that. Meaning--you never could have controlled that either.

You do have some control over yourself and your responses to these events. You can offer her support, you can provide what sounds like the need for both security and limits---as in---if you're helping her w/college it could be time to move her closer to home and to establish some expectations.

You can pull her out of this treatment center or you can accept that she will probably adjust just fine with or without a computer program to help her sleep. Sleep is not the reason she has been admitted.

As for the problem with depression, that will not repair itself overnight. Treatment for the substance abuse and then a program that deals with the depression are appropriate.

Good thing she has a Dad that cares.

[MichiganVote]

3. Sorry..meant to write a mom who cares. Good luck and stay close to her.

[BeHereNow]

5. No problem- actually you are spot on about her dad.

But indeed, yes, I am actually her mom.

;-)
BHN

[BeHereNow]

4. Concise reply- thank you.

I agree with and comprehend everything you have stated.
I am very clear on what I can and can't control.
I don't want to fix her aspie-ness- I love her just the way she is.
A completely unique person.

My concern is whether the center is the right approach for an aspie who is
depressed and self medicating for the social isolation/pain.
She is not addicted to anything- yet.

And though I made it very clear upon her admittance that
I was fairly certain that clinical aspie screening would reveal her to
be on the spectrum, no one communicated that information
to the staff and thus she was treated as though she had done something wrong
simply for being admitted. I believe the substance abuse and depression
can not be separated in her case. And certainly, the substance abuse must be
addressed in order to deal with the depression.

Like the second poster said though- with an aspie,
the nazi twelve stepper "you're a loser, why else would
you be here?" approach will not work and will actually
cause her to shut down/ melt down even more.

What I would really like to find is a center that is
focused or trained in helping the aspie/depression/self medicating
condition.

Guess I just need to keep looking.
I you know of any place like that, please
let me know and thank you for your reply.

Sincerely,
BHN

[MichiganVote]

10. This is the thing that most people don't realize about treatment centers

and that is they are focused on one thing--dealing with the substance abuse. In truth you have to realize that the centers are dealing with many dual diagnosis clients. If it were even possible to separate all the various clients by a diagnosis, the treatment would likely be the same. And by that I mean that the staff want to focus the client's attention totally on recovery of the use of self medicating substances.

All of the people who self medicate have similar problems of social isolation/loneliness/etc. They may have it for different reasons but they WILL have that background. They will also feel bad, offer excuses, cry, threaten, cajole, freak out and all of the other things that are a part of confronting a problem gone bad. I can't know the extent of your daughter's substance abuse and frankly she has probably not been totally honest with you either. I can tell you that if she persists she'll be dead and it won't matter whether she is an Aspie or not.

I don't think you are going to feel comfortable about this treatment center until you get more information about their approach. So I would suggest that you call them and get an appointment.

[BeHereNow]

11. The honesty issue-

My daughter has been completely honest with me and every doctor
she has met with.
She will also be the first person to be honest with herself that there
IS a problem.
She wants help- and so far, my experience with this particular
facility is that they have NO experience in her particular dual diagnosis
and the asperger contingent.
No blame- just need to keep looking for some one who does.
I think I have found such a place.
http://www.docherman.com/Asperger_Syndrom.htm
Again, thank you for your input.
Sincerely,
BHN

[Kajsa]

2. First off, if she is an Aspie,

an alcohol/drug recovery program may not be the right place for her
now.

I speak from first hand experience when I say some of them are very intense
and are mapped out for the alcoholic/addict, not for people with
autism/ Aspergers.
Sure she's frightened and not sleeping.
That is very normal for alcohol/drug withdrawal.
But there may be more going on here.

Please talk with the people running this program.
See if they are aware of the aspie side to this and
what they are doing to address this.
If they say nothing, it's all the same for everyone,
find another program.

If she has done nothing wrong and feels she is being
penalized, anyway, our kids lose it. That is one of the
hardest things for the outside world to understand
about our kids.

Tough love doesn't cut it, here.
I know, because my 23 yr. old son has autism.
An intense dose of tough love would sent him into
a complete meltdown.
What works for a newcomer in AA isn't necessarily
the right thing for your daughter.
I do understand she has self-medication problems.

Talk to a doctor who understands what's going on with her.

You are one terrific mom.

:hug:

[BeHereNow]

6. There's the rub- there is no withdrawal issue.

Great reply and I thank you for it.
Especially as a mom.
You are so correct about the reaction of being
punished for no reason- it sent her into a tail spin and panic.
And yes, my greatest fear was that they would take the
twelve step approach solely, despite the endless conversations I had
with them about the aspie factor. Naturally they told me what I
wanted to hear and then proceeded to take our money and admit
her while completely disregarding everything outside of their
business as usual. I am sick to death of people who know nothing
about the asperger person and just want to dismiss you as
a parent in denial. No one knows my daughter better than I.
We are so close and she is completely honest, as are most aspies.
Truth is very important to her.

She agreed to get help, ASKED for help, and I feel like I betrayed her by
placing her in this place even though I couldn't have known
they would completely disregard the aspie factor.
They are only treating her like an addict and the fact is,
she is not addicted to anything. she didn't need a detox or
anything. Her substance abuse is sporadic and always
connected to the social isolation she feels.
And indeed she has done nothing wrong. She needs help, not fixing.
I love her aspie qualities and would not change them for the world.
However, with all my heart, I believe the social awkwardness has
REALLY taken a toll on her over the last year, living on her own.
The pain of WANTING to be connected to other people and
having absolutely no social skills is killing her.

As far as the treatment center people- we spent the day
there in family groups. For the money we are paying, I must
tell you I am not impressed with the therapists, who again, seem to have
very little knowledge about the aspie individual and their needs


We committed to a seven day test run with the option
of thirty, but after today, I know in my heart that I need
to find another solution. I requested that the psychiatrist
give her an official asperger's screening test though.
She has never been diagnosed, but was the one
who told me she thought she was an aspie.
When I began to research it, especially the female aspies,
I had no doubt. SO much made sense about her quirky
wonderful being. She does not feel she needs "fixing"
either, she just wants help with her painful feeling
about social isolation. She wants so badly to be able
to carry on conversations- she simply doesn't know how.

So, She has promised to give it seven days, to see the
psychiatrist, be screened and try some of neuro-cognitive
"brain mapping" as they call it, but honestly, I can't
wait to go to plan "B" which is to find someone
who specializes in aspergers.

Hugs to you and thank you so much for confirming what
I know about my daughter. The world is so eager to
tell us how we need to use "tough love" etc...
Wrong approach for people who already feel that they are on the wrong planet.

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
BHN

[Kajsa]

9. You are so right, BeHereNow.

They don't understand how our kids think and react to given
situations.

If she doesn't have withdrawals, an alcohol/ drug rehab program
is wrong for her.
Boy, that pain you describe is so familiar.
I know my son feels it, too.
Yep, they do feel like they are on the wrong planet.
And I can see why.

Bless you and your daughter.
The new doctor sounds great.

Once she gets an understanding ,good doctor
and a good program, she will feel better.

Hugs to you both.

:hug: :grouphug: :hug:

[BeHereNow]

12. Maybe we should hook them up!

Sounds like they have a great deal in common.
Next DU meetup?
Heh-
BHN:hug: :pals:

[Kajsa]

15. Why not?

That's a great idea!

Let's do it.

:hug:

[BeHereNow]

20. What part of the country are you in?

If we don't live close, there is always the internet-
Your son might be like my daughter in that she
feels more comfortable with people online than
face to face.
That might be a good way to introduce them
and if they wanted to meet face to face after
some internet exchanges, we could always
figure it out.
Sounds like you and I should meet too!

By the way, I found a GREAT forum a few months
ago for people like you and me with young adult
aspies- there are also NT's and aspies who are married,
friends, all sorts of N/T apsie relationships.
It's really helpful to get the aspie perspective
on certain topics that come up for me as a parent.
They are a really great group.
It's a Delphi forum; I'll go did up the link right now
and post it for you.
Hope this works-
http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=asandpartners&nav=messages&msg=7463&prettyurl=%2Fasandpartners%2Fmessages%2F%3Fmsg%3D7463
They also have a web site that links to their forum and live chat-
Next one is November 2nd.
http://www.asandtheirpartners.org/

Enjoy- I have found them MOST helpful, especially
Gerry, who I think may be the founder.
I have learned SO much from him.
BHN

[BeHereNow]

7. Just found this doctor on the net-

I think I may have found a place to start...
again.
http://www.docherman.com/Asperger_Syndrom.htm

Just left a message and am anxiously waiting to hear back.
I'll let you know.

This page describes my daughter perfectly.
Your son?

BHN:hug:

[Kajsa]

8. This sounds like my son to a 'T'.

He is very much the loner, has trouble being a good friend,
however he is liked by others.

Oh, he's the "rules" policeman at work-;-)

He " doesn't make the rules, just follows them".

It drives some of his co-workers bonkers but they all like him.

This sounds like a great place to start.
These people KNOW what we are talking about and what our kids
are dealing with. That's more than half the battle right there.

Good luck and please let me know how it goes with this doctor.

:hug:

[BeHereNow]

13. Isn't a relief when you know some one "gets it?"

My husband and I read that web site page and both agreed
our daughter's picture should be there.

Our daughter too, is very much about following "the rules."
when she knows what is expected, look out.

She too, is liked by people; unfortunately she can not
accurately interpret or feel it. She does not trust it and
has ZERO tolerance for petty conversation.
Sound familiar?

BHN

[Kajsa]

16. It sure does.

I've seen my son get up and walk away
when he thinks the conversation is "silly".

Social skills are the hardest for them.
Heck, I have trouble explaining why we
(collectively as a society) do some things,
anyway. LOL.

:pals:

[goddess40]

14. You could try to educate the center she is at

If they won't meet with you, send them information about asperger's and how treatment affects them differently.

I'm so sorry you and you're daughter are going through this. It appears she needs help but finding the right help is paramount, you can look at this rehab center as a stop gap until you can find someone that knows how to deal with asperger's.

[BeHereNow]

17. I did JUST that...

I sent one of the therapists an email with a link to
Doc Herman's page on Apsies and suggested she
share it with other clinical and residential staff members.

DU minds think alike!

BHN

[goddess40]

18. We have to help ourselves and each other because

that's all we have. From what I hear the Autism lobby is very strong hear in WI, but instead of just lobbying the government I would like them to address the colleges that have education programs. It's amazing to me that so many in the educational field know so little about Autism spectrum disorders and bullying and it's time the colleges stepped up and did their part. I know they have their courses set but these two overlapping issues are huge and should not be ignored.

[BeHereNow]

19. Damned straight. We are all we have- that's what I am learning.

Don't hold your breath on the education end where teaching programs
are concerned. I have found that most teachers are clueless and
prefer to remain that way. Surprisingly, many teachers in Special Ed
are woefully unprepared for the issues that you mention; the bullying,
the different learning styles, the handwriting difficulties and so forth.
I know many people have mistaken my daughter's mannerisms for
rudeness; her shyness for snobbery or disinterest.

On the whole, the public, including doctors, therapists and educators remain
ignorant about AS.

I am SO grateful to have online communities for support- that is literally
the only place I have found people who actually know what it is like
to live with it AS, which I repeat, I would not change for the world.
I love my daughter just the way she is, however, as a parent it is
painful to see how the world just doesn't understand her sometimes
and the pain that causes her.

Hopefully, this clinic I found in my area can help
with some of the transition/life skills that are
causing her problems.

Thanks for being here.

BHN

[liberalhistorian]

21. That is what I am really afraid of as my Aspie son

enters his final two years of high school. He is extremely intelligent, way off the charts on EVERY subject; even some of his teachers have been and are intimidated by (but also fascinated with, usually) him. Yet, his social and communications and organizational issues have always presented a major problem, and it will only get worse in college and beyond.

I fear for him, as most colleges don't know about this and, so far, don't show much inclination to know or do much or to even begin to understand. And "awareness" groups such as FAAAS, which is nothing more than a hate group pushing a hateful, hurtful, harmful agenda, sure as hell aren't helping any at all; in fact, they're making things much worse.

And most services for AS/autism/LD, etc., end at adulthood and there are very few groups offering advocacy, support and employment/educational assistance for such adults. It's all focused on children and teenagers, when most of the real challenges and problems are going to occur in adulthood.

[BeHereNow]

22. Few resources- you got that right.

I just got off the phone with Dr. Herman, who I found locally.
For the first time- I have hope.

You are so correct, the problems really develop when they go out on their own
and most schools have no clue what an aspie looks like or what they may
need in way of services.

You may want to check out this website- this page in particular
on AS:
http://www.docherman.com/Asperger_Syndrom.htm
Then check out the services for life transition, which my kid was SO
unprepared for, thus the depression/self medicating behavior.

I am scheduling a consultation with him for next week.
He works with several college students who are in the same
boat as my daughter and knew EXACTLY what I was talking
about on so many aspects about her quirks- such a relief!!!!

BHN

[hedgehog]

23. I wish I could help, but all I can do is tell you I'll be praying for you.

I've been there myself, kicking myself because I didn't do the right thing at the right time for one of my kids. It's not your fault if you've done your best, no one of us knows all.

[BeHereNow]

24. The "right" thing is hard to know when you are in the middle of it.

I'm sure you did what you thought was right at the time.
And you never know, in time, you may find that it WAS the right thing
to do.
There is no worse feeling as a parent than wanting to
fix it and knowing you can't.
That's when we find ourselves searching desperately for
someone who can help.
I wont give up, ever.
Thanks for your prayer- back at you.
BHN
:hug: