Reject "progressive"? Call ourselves "liberals"?

[CTLawGuy]

Should people who support the president grab the discarded mantle of "liberal" to distinguish us from the "progressives" who revel in their cynicism about our party and our president?

What have "progressives" done but be useful idiots for the Republican obstruction machine that is frustrating our ability to get good legislation passed? What great legislation has king progressive Dennis Kucinich ever passed?


Liberals like FDR and LBJ passed legislation that wasn't perfect, but that has had a positive effect on our country:

Should LBJ have vetoed medicare because it only covered old people, or Medicaid because it covered only poor people?
Should he have vetoed the civil rights act, because it didn't address voting rights?

Should FDR have vetoed social security (which was amended multiple times since, btw) because it (1) did not apply to women and minorities, (2) excluded people in "agricultural labor, domestic service, government employees, and many teachers, nurses, hospital employees, librarians, and social workers", and (3) excluded as a practical matter nearly ONE HALF of the work force? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_%28United_States%29#Controversy -

No. These liberals birthed legislation that was improved over time, because they knew of the limitations of our government and that our government was not designed to make sweeping immediate changes. Change would take time. At the same time, they believed that government could be a force for good in improving the quality of our lives, and they never gave up trying to make it so.

Obama knows and believes these same things and he is a liberal. We should call ourselves liberals because we in this forum believe these things too. We support our president and our party because they want to do the right thing and they struggle with a hostile, broken system.

Do you agree?

[treestar]

1. Yes

I agree with what the progressives want, just don't believe there's justification to get mad at Obama or even Congress because we don't have it in the first year. A lot of it, I don't expect to see in the near future.

[DevonRex]

2. I dislike the term progressive, personally. I claim the liberal label proudly

and loudly. I think using progressive was a way of running away from the "negative" connotation given to the word liberal by the RW wackos. I won't let them turn a good, descriptive word into a perjorative.

I know other folks feel differently and that's fine. But that's how I see it. I'm proud to be a bleeding heart liberal, too, because if your heart can't bleed for others then something's wrong with you, IMO.

[JeffR]

3. I think it's been clear for years now that both terms have been

pretty much drained of relevance.

What I think this really amounts to is a schism between idealists and pragmatists. I don't fault the idealists for their high-mindedness, but the stubborn refusal to accept that this is indeed a "hostile, broken system" is often cringe-inducing, as is the sometimes appalling ignorance of the legislative process and constitutionally mandated separation of powers. Again and again, I'm brought up short by the number of prolific posters who noisily trumpet their ignorance of our system of government and blithe disregard for exactly how change is effected (or not effected) through the tortuous crafting of public policy. I'd long assumed that the general level of political awareness on DU was very high. The past year has revealed that to be an illusion.

Complicating all this is the obvious agenda being pushed by some of the doomsayers, and the willingness of some of the disgruntled-but-sincere to go along for the ride, suspending rational thought in the process.

As for me, I still identify as a socialist.

[dcsmart]

5. the S word...go to the socialist progressives group and u will

see dcsmart (me) all over the place...LOL. I think i would put socialists in the idealist camp--i know because i have been active with them for awhile--and the lack of pragmatic sense and american political realism is why i left. I agree with everything you said. The anger with the pres by many is exactly because they do not know how the system works. This is why i am not upset and very happy with--well not with everything--what the administration is doing. I never expected any health care reform to ever get this far. Anyway, we need to stick to an empirical/rational analysis of the arguments and policy and pragmatically implement them.

or just....:beer: heavily...LOL

[JeffR]

6. And I agree with what you've said.

Right down to the :beer:

I was musing the other day about how disconcerting it was to see the great Bernie Sanders lionized on DU until he opted to support the in-progress health care legislation. Then - whoosh!! - he's a sell-out, a corporatist, a SINO. Or, more ominously, "they" got to him!

[dcsmart]

9. there would have had to have a been coup

for Obama to implement the changes so many "progressives" or whatever, "left leaning," people wanted. Jail all those opposed and keep the others. I liked what the president said and what he believed in and still does, but i knew that campaigning obama and president obama would not end up the same. And that is not criticism. that is just how it had to go. I wanted someone to start building a new foundation and i think he has. I have to admit that i did not expect the republicans to behave as badly as they have, but even that has its reasons. Besides, it has only been 11 months....i--and many other people in this group--posted lists of his accomplishments which are outstanding. So, i really think those of us who can be level headed and see the big picture and have the patience to actually see what happens will be better able to analyze outcomes more critically and be supportive to long term plans.

[JeffR]

10. Agree again.

I think the reason the GOP has been especially colicky is they know they have nothing to offer, and they know that most voters know it too.

And I've read a bunch of those lists of accomplishments and I must say they're pretty impressive so far. I'd like to see action on a number of new fronts in 2010, as I'm sure we all do, but it never ceases to amaze me that the administration has done so much so fast in a Washington culture immobilized by decades of corruption.

[Cha]

14. Gotta say I like

your upside down DU logo, JeffR..I think it's been earned.. not that the mods aren't making a valiant effort in a lot of cases.

[JeffR]

21. Thanks, Cha.

I'm sure the mods are doing their utmost. I feel bad for them.

[Cha]

22. So do

I.

[LiberalAndProud]

4. They are just words, aren't they?

I am all for progress and progressive legislation. I hunger and thirst for social justice in our country. I support civil liberties. I believe the government has a role in both securing and protecting them. All these things I can support. I embrace both "progressive" and "liberal" as apt descriptors of who I am and what I believe.

As much discord as has erupted over the question of whether or not Obama is the right man for the job, I believe we share common goals and values with our self-described Progressives here. Now we are in a war of personalities and methodologies, but in the end, we are looking to achieve (mostly) common goals.

[MerryBlooms]

7. I've always just called myself a Dem

I have thought of myself as just a middle-of-the-roader, average Dem. Then I took a test off a DU post and ended up with one of the highest scores in the thread. I laughed and decided I'm probably on one watch list or another.

I really don't get hung up on current labels. I think the term 'progressive' came about from the right demonizing the word 'liberal'. Now, all three terms are somehow tainted and dirty by the M$M. *shrug Whatever, I have been just a plain ol' Dem for 28 years now and as far as I'm concerned, plain ol' Dem is good enough for the next 28.

[RoyGBiv]

8. I dislike the use of "progressives"

I do it and have referred to myself as that, but basically only here and only because it's usage is so common here and not, inherently, filled with the connotative stigma I apply to it personally.

Some would consider my reasons silly, but I've been called worse.

I don't like referring to myself as a progressive because of the "progressive" movement of the late 19th and early 20th century. That form of progressivism was, in essence, "for whites only." The historical consensus that arrived at this conclusion has been challenged in recent years, but not so much of its primary aspect, rather some that are associated with it. The overarching fact that progressives of this era were by and large willing to shed their support of progressive reforms that benefited minorities leaves me with less than a heartwarming feeling about reprising it today.

As I've said before, I'm a liberal. I've always been a liberal and have always called myself that. Liberal is a good word with a good pedigree, and I embrace it.

[rebel with a cause]

11. I call myself a liberal most of the time when I speak of politics.

A socialist when I want to shock or anger someone. A misanthrope when it comes to my social life. But mostly I am a natural rebel that leans toward anarchy when it comes to the idea of being controlled unfairly/completely. Put me on your list...I dare you! :evilgrin:

Most of all I'm old and a wuss. Don't put me on any list.

[Fire1]

12. Yes I agree. I have always referred to myself as a liberal

and all that it encompasses.

[Cha]

13. "Progressive" is a misnomer for them..

Deadender is more accurate than that non descriptive word for those who lie to get nowhere.

How "progressive" is Marching With the Teabagger" and hooking up with grover norquist to killbill?

They're as progressive as the so called "conservatives" are to conserving the Environment or anything else for that matter.

Personally, I don't need a label to support President Obama for America..and the whole Planet.

[goclark]

15. I think of myself as a solid , loyal Democrat

I am a Democrat through and through. I have never supported any other party in any election.

That is just who I am.

I am a member of the TEAM and I will do whatever I can to make our team stronger.

I realize that it is not the ME Party, everything will not be because I like it that way.

For example,I have said many times here that I am not a Charter School fan. That said, I will do everything within my power to support the Educational System in America.

[DevonRex]

19. I grew up as a Republican. I guess that is one reason I'm such a die-hard Democrat

now. I've seen what republican philosphy can do and I reject it so absolutely that I will vote Dem no matter what. We have to keep those lunatics out of power.

I'm liberal and I'm a Democrat, proudly so.

[rebel with a cause]

23. You and me too.

Was never a conservative except morally. I was raised basically a puritan. No sex before marriage, girls wore dresses, no dancing and etc.

Now I'm democrat and more open minded. Proud to be both.

[DeepModem Mom]

16. The retreat to "progressive," to me, indicated a win for those who demonized the word "liberal."

When conversations turn to politics, I always, up front, identify myself as a "liberal" (and a "Democrat"). With pride.

I'm not sure I realized that "progressive," for some, indicates a distancing from liberalism. Thanks for your post.

[Kaleva]

17. I consider progressive and liberal to be easily interchangeable.

There probably are many here who would be considered mainstream liberal/progressive as far as DU itself is concerned but would be ,IMO, "fringe" (neither liberal or progressive) when compared to liberals Dems as a whole.

[Arkana]

18. Yes.

Liberals ended slavery in this country.

Liberals saved the Union when conservatives threatened to tear it apart because they wanted to keep subjugating black people.

Liberals crafted legislation that made sure our food and drink wasn't going to kill us.

Liberals crafted legislation that limited workdays and workweeks, abolished child labor, and granted women the right to vote.

Liberals won WWI AND WWII.

Liberals lifted us out of a conservative-caused depression the likes of which the country had never seen.

Liberals created the middle class and constructed a series of safety nets that still exist today as the absolute third rail of American politics.

Liberals created the Peace Corps, Medicare, Head Start, NPR, and are responsible for us going to the moon.

Liberals crafted the Civil Rights Act, even though we knew we'd lose the South for generations in every Presidential election.

Liberals deserve much of the credit for ending the Cold War (NOT fucking Ronnie McRaygun, who happened to be in the right place at the right time).

And now, liberals are in the process of cleaning up YET ANOTHER conservative mess.

I am so, so, sick of us running away from that label "liberal". We are the architects, the framers, the fucking GATEKEEPERS of this country. We are the reason it's still standing despite conservative attempts to destroy it.

That word "liberal" is a badge of fucking HONOR and we should wear it as such.

[old mark]

20. "Progressive" recalls to me the social activiists of the late 19th and early 20th

century, such as those who supported prohibition. It is not necessarily something I want to be identified with, but I'm not to wild about the "liberal" label, either. Back in the '70's a liberal was a moderate leftist centerist, a mildly nasty name you called someone, while the "real" hard left called themselves "radicals", and what they (we) were proposing would scare the shit out of many of today's "progressives".
The US has gone so far right in the last 30 years, the "liberals" of those days are the "radicals" now.
The old "radical left" is not even a memory anymore.

I just call myself a Democrat now, and look for candates to vote for who have at least SOME integrity and intelligence and are not stuffing the money in their pockets too obviously or visibly drooling heavily as they do it.
You are of course free to call yourself whatever you wish.
mark

[berni_mccoy]

24. Progressivism and Liberalism are two different things

Progressivism supports the concept of egalitarian economics... that is, equal access to resources for all, along with liberal social policies. So, in a sense it is a specific form of liberalism that promotes financial equality. It's closer to true socialism than liberalism but they are unlikely to gain a strong foothold in the US due to greed and the cultural structure built up around our economy. For example, it's unlikely we'll ever see a 90% tax rate again (we had this at one time in the US), but most people in the country would never go for that, because ultimately, everyone dreams of winning the lottery but no one would want to give up 90% of it to taxes.

It's also why you see people on this site upset about the Senate tax vs. the House tax plan for the HCR bill. The House plan directly taxes the income of the wealthy, while the Senate plan appears to be a tax on benefits. However, there is subtlety that is missed by the progressives on this board wrt the Senate tax. It's a tax on the Heath Insurance company on their high-premium plans. The employees who receive these benefits won't be taxed (ergo the myth that this is a tax on the middle class) even though that is what the progressives like to say.