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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 11:03 PM
Original message
FDR and Obama
Edited on Fri Jan-08-10 11:07 PM by RoyGBiv
This is a little tidbit I posted in GD. Rather than link to the post and risk getting this locked, I thought I'd just post it here on its own. Much more could be said on this, but the basic idea needs to be recognized. I think we should all be on guard for the false association that suggests FDR was hugely popular and successful in his first term while Obama is turning out to be a failure. A truer statement at this point would be that their administrations are following along very similar paths.

I also think this should serve as a reminder to us. Even FDR had insane people running around sniping at his every move, but he turned out to be pretty awesome.

This was a response to someone suggesting Obama should dump HCR because it is so unpopular.

--

When FDR was pushing his programs, his support was mixed. In the early years of his first term conditions improved for very few poor. While the so-called patrician class composed primarily of NE liberals continued strong support, he was opposed by conservative interests, and his support among the common individual was so fragile that one of his efforts, the National Recovery Administration (NRA), obtained the sobriquet Never Roosevelt Again.

As Matthew Baum and Samuel Kern observed in their article "Economic Class and Popular Support for Franklin Roosevelt in War and Peace," published in the Summer 2001 edition of Public Opinion Quarterly, "Until Pearl Harbor, partisan and ideological conflict never receded far from the nation's civic life, and whenever it flared up, Roosevelt found himself at the center of controversy. Each policy initiative to deal with the Depression was greeted with derision from demagogues on both the left and right. Every 2 years the national election became a referendum on the president's policies and performance."

We don't have the kind of polling data for Roosevelt's terms of office that we have for most subsequent administrations, which has allowed to be ingrained in the popular mind the idea that everyone loved Roosevelt except "fat cats" and "Wall Street." This is a myth. Those statistical analysts, historians, economists and political scientists who have attempted to undertake a systematic study of Roosevelt's popularity during his administrations, using evidence from his administrations as opposed to common perceptions detailed after his death, have found little evidence to support this. Indeed, Roosevelt was popular with certain financial interests, namely financiers and industrialists who were involved in non-labor intensive industries, that strike directly in the face of the common perceptions that have floated around him in years since. Among the economic lower classes, his popularity was mixed. The white South liked very little about him at the time. The Tennessee Valley Authority was derided as a Communist plot. The rural poor in those early days saw little change in their lives, distrusted government, and considered Washington as continuing to be disconnected from their daily concerns.

As time progressed into the latter part of his first term, positive results for many of these groups did begin to show and opinion moved toward supporting him, but his second election was the most uncertain of all of them going into election day, largely because his popularity had dropped so low immediately after and into the first couple of years of his administration. As Baum and Kern concluded, "Public support appears in all accounts to have been critical to Roosevelt's success" in those early days (Baum and Kern 2001; Brace and Hinckley 1993; Kernell 1978; MacKuen1983; Mueller 1970; Ostrom and Simon 1985; and many others), which calls into question the common myth that everyone loved him and that the current administration should back off proposals without broad public support. The right wing of the 30's pressed the same lie, just as they are today.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh yeah, they'd love that if Pres Obama
dumped HRC and didn't have anything at all to build on. I'm going with what Obama is thinking necessary to move forward.

Somethings never change and that's why I'm glad we've had people like FDR and have Pres Obama who had and have a vision and a focus while others are swirling and spinning in circles.

"Each policy initiative to deal with the Depression was greeted with derision from demagogues on both the left and right. Every 2 years the national election became a referendum on the president's policies and performance."


I visited FDR's Summer White House in Warm Springs, Georgia in the summer of '08 and his Presidential Library in Hyde Park, New York in the summer of '09 so I have a fresh sense of what he was up against and how complex his life was..and Eleanor. What a sweetheart she was. I'm grateful for them in our history..Thanks President Roosevelt for getting Social Security Started:party:

Thanks for this reminder of FDR's enemies, RoyG.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Have you seen the DC memorial?
I went there in 2006. I'd seen a few pictures of the place, but I had no idea how big it was nor how well it was done. My friend who lives there was just driving us around on the way to get something to eat and said, "Hey, we should stop here." We were there for over an hour, and I made him take me back the next day.

Couple pics ...



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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. No, unfortunately I haven't been to DC in a long time..
I see that little dog with him and am reminded how much he loved his Scotty. ~ Murray the Outlaw of Falahill/aka/ Fala~



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt_Memorial

Thanks for showing those pics.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Wonderful memorial.


We were in D.C. with young grandkids a few years back. They were excited about the more familiar landmarks and then entranced with that area. Most of the family pictures are from that walk-through.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I was called a "Roosevelt baby,"

having been born in early 40s. I've mentioned at other times that our family was all Democratic. By high school, I was well aware of other families (and some classmates) who had long hated Roosevelt, New Deal, and so forth. Political science and U.S. history classes in the 50s, 60s were quite clear about the opposition and lasting animosity toward FDR.

"If we don't learn......"
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I was raised a republican sort of.......
My father loved FDR, did not like Truman, liked Eisenhower and etc. He was also a big union man, coal miner and all. Anyway, we were raised that a political party was something you belonged to just to get to vote and then you voted for the man of your choice. That was how I always felt about it even though I became a registered Democrat in my adult life. Then some years back when the republicans became the silent majority and took hold of power things changed for me. I just can not even think about voting for a republican....ever. This is due to conservatism, the religious right wing and their extreme capitalism ideals.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I'm called a
Edited on Sat Jan-09-10 03:51 PM by Cha
War baby having been born in 1944. One more year and day.. the War ended.

I could be a Roosevelt Baby though..he was still alive and President:patriot:

There's little Obama babies running around now.:)
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I was called a war baby and was born Dec. 1945.
I always argued that the war was over then but my mom said it was still in the year the war ended and all the soldiers were not home yet. :shrug: I'm definitely not a Roosevelt baby.

My mother wanted a Christmas baby but I was born a week before Christmas.

I've been called a baby boomer but was born two weeks to early to really be one.

I didn't do anything right from the beginning. ;)
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-10-10 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Be glad you're
not labeled.:)

Oh and call yourself anything you want..I'm now a Roosevelt baby.:dem:
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. Abe Lincoln wasn't universally loved either....
.... as a matter of fact, he polled pretty poorly in an entire chunk of the southern half of the country. ;)

Hindsight tends to be rosey in color.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. Fascinating information and a great read!
Thank you! :hi:
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greenbird Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for this.
Very interesting!
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seeinfweggos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks for that. good read with which to start the day.
I like this pro-democratic corner of du.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks, Roy!
I really appreciate the information you bring to this forum!

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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks for the reminder. Roy. I always try to keep this in mind. n/t
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