a little more than a year ago, I was defending Dean and his 50 state strategy

[Peacetrain]

against the very people who were calling Dean every name in the book.. starting with corporate hack. Just so sure Obama was not going to win the election and yadda yadda yadda.. well we know the outcome of that.

I like Dean, but he is caught up in his own press and legend right now. I just hope he does not do a Nader..(and I don't then he will) I think he will back it down .. I really do.

But I just find it a little amusing his new "fan" club, many of the same threw him under the bus not long ago.

[sandnsea]

1. I think he's probably just frustrated

And I also think he sometimes says things he wishes later he could take back. That's the most unfortunate part. The funny thing about Dean has always been that some of the people he supported that got elected have turned out to be the biggest blue dogs in DC. Stephanie Herseth for instance, even Mary Landrieu. Then the ones that got so much flack, like Sherrod Brown, have turned out to be terrific allies. Politics is complicated. I think Dean knows that, I just don't know why he lets so many people believe it's all about corporate money because it isn't for everybody. Frankly sometimes it's about union money and that isn't always 100% beneficial to progressive movement as we've seen with CAFE standards and pipelines for 20 years.

[graywarrior]

2. I don't know when it happened, but in the past few weeks I've soured on Dean

[TheBigotBasher]

3. I still like him

and I do wish he had been kept on as Party Chairman. It is important to have some one with his undoubted talents pissing out and not in.

I just think his removal was part of a deal further up the food chain, from someone who also was very much needed inside the administration big tent.

[graywarrior]

5. I respect everything he has done

But dammit, the republicans always win because they stick together no matter what.

[TheBigotBasher]

16. Agreed.

They hate each other in private, you can tell by looking at their views on McCain and Snowe online, but on tv they are solid.

I personally believe if our Senate Caucus behaved this way, ie a fight to the death in Private but a show of hands on the agreed position the Party would be much better off.

[Cha]

4. I haven't been reading anything

about what Dean is saying..all I've seen is what's in the bog. I'm a Deaniac but I'm a supporter of President Obama and his Team and what they're trying to accomplish in spite of all the scratching and crawling vermin against them.

From knowing Dean in the past I would say he's stating what he thinks..but he is most certainly a team player who is pragmatic.

I guess time will tell on this as well as other important issues Pending!

[Cha]

6. Okay, see it now why it's so irritating.

"While he praised Obama as a good president, Dean said the Democrat hasn't turned out to be the ''change agent'' the party thought it elected, and voters who supported Democrats in back-to-back elections now are turned off. Said Dean: ''They really thought the revolution was at hand but it wasn't, and now they're getting the back of the hand.''"

more

Frankly, there has been a lot of change:

Progressives (and Obama) are Doing Better Than We Think -- and We Won't Know What We've Got 'Til It's Gone
<...>

Quick Summary of 2009 Progressive Victories (more explanation below)

<more>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x129916

I'm surprised at Dean..I would think he would know better just from looking at the big picture.

[rebel with a cause]

7. I have been surprised by Dean also

and that what he says gives so much ammunition to the haters on this site just enraged me yesterday.

[Cha]

8. Yeah, not good.

But, this too will pass. President Obama will continue doing the real heavy lifting while everyone who thinks they could do a better job but didn't get elected will continue sitting it out.

[goclark]

9. I am disappointed in Dean and I really like him

Can someone explain to me why he wasn't selected to be the Chair this time?

Did he get mad at Obama or what happened?

[Cha]

10. I don't really

know except that Dean just might have wanted to go on to others things and Pres Obama and his Team thought Kaine would be a good Chairman for the DNC?

It's obviously complicated but I hope this current sniping will be resolved bc I respect Dean for what he's done and I respect the President.

[goclark]

13. Thanks for the update

I want Dean on our side

[NJmaverick]

11. I fear that Rahm and Dean are engaged in a destructive pissing match

there has been some pretty intense friction between these two men. Now it seems that Dean will make destructive comments to spite Rahm and Rahm is seeing that Dean is excluded to the detriment of the party.

[SeattleGirl]

12. Kind of seems that way to me, too.

They both need to grow up and let go of their resentments toward each other; there are some big problems that need dealing with, and this kind of crap isn't helping anyone.

[rebel with a cause]

14. Men will be men, and politicians will be politicians.

Unfortunately.

[quiet.american]

15. As a former DNC Chairman, Dean must know how destructive to fundraising his comments are.

I was a through-and-through Deaniac from day 1, even before he'd announced his presidential candidacy. And I truly admired him for doing the right thing when his campaign fell apart in no small part because of the machinations of our own party leadership, as I understood it. I had a tremendous respect for Dean that he did not advocate for his supporters to leave the Democratic Party, and that he immediately put his tremendous skills and talent to work strengthening the Party infrastructure.

But now, for him to make these kind of remarks going into a mid-term elections year -- he must know that he is giving incredible ammunition to "the right," and also maybe even seriously damaging DNC fundraising efforts from within its own voting block.

Was he just biding his time? I don't know. The respect I had for him is getting tarnished, though.

[Cha]

17. Excellent points, quietamerican.

I don't think he was biding his time but I don't think he thought this through.

I'm Deaniac too and am really puzzled by his lack of understanding of what has really been going on.

Can't wait to hear in what vein this continues.

[quiet.american]

19. Thanks, Cha. I know people always say "Rahm" when it comes to Obama/Dean, but I wonder.

I wonder what is the real tension between them, because Obama in general goes out of his way to be gracious to those who oppose him, whether within his own party or without, but he and Dean really seem to have some "history."

[DFLforever]

23. He's got more than one enemy in the West Wing.,.

Besides Rahm, there is Gibbs. Wasn't he responsible for some of the more horrendous anti-Dean ads and propaganda of 2004 when the Dem candidates combined forces to bring down his candidacy.

I originally contributed to Sen candidate Obama through Dean (Democracy for America) He was one of the Dean Dozen in IL in 2004. Dean was an early sponsor of Obama.

There is a real conflict of style and approach between the president and Dr. Dean. I could never picture him as Secretary of HHS because of it. Dean is such a catalyst himself. He wouldn't fit an Obama White House.

For sure, Dean hasn't been treated well or given his due by this administration. Si I see he wouldn't feel much allegiance to them. But I hate to see him hanging around with this bad crowd such as at FDL. I pulled my name from the DFA e-mail because of their intransigence on health care. I know Dean is appalled by Lieberman. The idea of his having an upper hand in health care must gall him.

I admire Dr. Dean but I support the President first of all.

[Arkana]

18. I like Dean. I hate his fan club.

I think Howard Dean walks a fine line between being a party man and speaking his mind.

[Peacetrain]

20. That is where I am at.. I give Dean a ton of credit for the 50 state strategy

[Robb]

21. Right there with you.

Exactly there with you, actually. :thumbsup:

[johnaries]

22. Same here. And I feel like i'm walking that fine line, too.

There are some things I disagree with Obama on, and there are some things I don't like about the HCR bill. But I'm afraid to try and have an open discussion because it will just fuel the Obashers and the knee-jerker's.

Edit to add: Hell, I'm registered as an Independent because I didn't want to feel any "obligations" to any particular party. And yet I feel like I'm more loyal to the Democratic Party than half of the Democrats here. Or are they just pretending to be Dems?