DU is becoming nearly intolerable for me

[berni_mccoy]

Not because of the anti-Obama sentiment, but because of the Single-Payer-Or-Die mentality. This is, IMO, intolerable for me and it makes this site hostile toward the well-being of many who need help. As many know, I am the parent of two children with type-1 and if HCR legislation isn't passed, they face a very difficult future. I find the "Kill-the-bill" posts extremely offensive and dangerous to millions of Americans who need health care, even if it is through a health insurance company. If the single-payer-or-die movement prevails here, I may not stay with DU. I know that will come as a happy moment to many outside of this forum.

[Cha]

1. Been working on getting this Legislation

passed berni..along with millions of others who actually need it.

Don't let the regressives getcha down..we've all been there in that state of mind but it will pass and you'll come back strong. You are a beaming light to many on this board who are into the reality of this...our reality based White House.

[goclark]

2. Please don't go ~ however

I can't even imagine the rage that you must feel in your heart.

It is difficult to see in black and white such anger and hate on an issue that can help so many people,especially when we are to "work for Democratic Causes.".

I just don't understand.

Just stay in BOG and we will keep you posted on the latest information here.

I wish we could have some kind of Code that said "DGTT" for "Don't Go There Today" because it will not be good for your blood pressure.

Sometimes I can feel the anger inside of me, so I do appreciate your feelings too. :hug:

[Cha]

3. Sweet...

yes I totally appreciate the feeling.

Yeah, somedays are cheap pot shotier than others.

[ismnotwasm]

4. I understand

I used to browse DU everyday, it was always entertaining and informative. I'm not, and never have been, a huge participant, but I felt part of a small community. I do my own research when I read an opinion I agree or don't agree with, and gain knowledge. Lately in the major forums, there is so much conflicting and confusing information, I often just skip them. I peak in here, and a couple of other places.

Health care reform is a very difficult and complicated piece of legislation that's having to fight multitudes of special interests a lobbyists and outright prejudice (I see the ghost of Ronald Reagen in some of this shit) This is the system we have, the system we have had, the system President Obama has to deal with. I was listening to a doctor the other day tell a patient "If I had my way, there would only be one insurance, I consider health care a right for everybody" (The patient was expressing concerns over what would and possibly wouldn't be covered by his insurance.)

While I agree with that doctor--I also know we have to start somewhere, I've lost count of the difficulties with insurance my patients run into. We NEED health care reform. We need a place to start.

An example; but one of the myriad of difficulties patients can run into; I had a patient who had a particular type of surgery. The resident, in the discharge orders wrote (paraphrasing it) "Patient to D/C (go home) today, unless they feel like going tomorrow" This was inexperience on the part of the resident, but the wording told the insurance company that this patient had no valid reason to be in the hospital. They would NOT have paid for that extra day, and while in this case it all worked out---- I can't tell you how many times patients have been discharged too early and need to return. We're talking MAJOR and unnecessary health care costs here, and increases in poor outcomes for patients, up to and including death.

I hope you stay here and ride it out, it easier for me because I haven't invested as much time and effort as you have, but I do value your posts.

[quiet.american]

6. Appreciated your perspective, since you're in the trenches dealing w/patients everyday. nt

[treestar]

15. I have a relative on Medicaid

Which itself refused to pay for a hospital stay when she was admitted through the ER - maybe I don't know all the details, but it sounds insane. If an MD thinks you need to be admitted, how can Medicaid contradict that?

[NJmaverick]

5. Unfortunately there are many liberals driven by self interest or ego

rather than compassion. That crowd give all liberals a bad name.

[quiet.american]

7. It's to the point where I can't tell the callousness of the far-right from that of the far left.

I don't know if this single-payer meme is from right-wing poseurs, or is actually legitimately left, but the singular thing that strikes me about HCR's raging critics is that they do not acknowledge or care about how people can and will be helped by this legislation. There is a stunningly callous attitude.

And we'll have to ready ourselves for the second wave after the bill passes. Because each glitch in getting it implemented will be trumpeted with a chorus of "I told you so." -- The thing that really gets me is that those railing against this bill will someday (probably sooner rather than later) enormously benefit from the legislation.

[Hamlette]

8. I'm starting to see them as selfish. There are not the generous liberals I'm used to.

the lofty rhetoric about unjustly enriching insurance companies usually has a "I'm healthy, why should I have to buy insurance" undercurrent.

Like you, I've stopped going to GD or GDP at all. Once in awhile I'll read the most recent posts on my way over here and get sucked in to some of the most hate filled, selfish BS anywhere on the internet.

Oh, yeah, while I'm at it. Fuck you Michael Moore.

(Bad morning, just noticed front page article on NYTimes is about how Obama hasn't been able to get his message out and its all Axelrod's (Obama's) fault. Which I find to be BS. I completely understand Obama's message and if there were to be any fault it would be with outfits like the NYTimes who gave us the war in Iraq.) rant off.

[Dappleganger]

9. It's pretty bad.

Please don't forget that MANY of us agree with you and want this bill to pass. If we don't do it now it'll be another 30 years before any help and we just can't wait that long.

[Fire1]

10. Ditto. n/t

[GoCubsGo]

11. It is sickening.

I am unemployed, and have no health insurance. I would love to see single-payer, but right now, I would just like to be covered. I'm tired of being under the "Pray You Don't Get Sick or Injured" Plan. Yet, these so-called "liberals" are fine with it. They're not getting fucked over, so they have the luxury of demanding that everything go their way. Screw the rest of us. I expect that kind of shit from the likes of DeLay and Bunning, but not from people who call themselves "Liberal" or "Progressive."

[goclark]

12. I wish they could count their votes and opinions this way

"If you don't want to support this Bill, give up your Health insurance /Medicare for one damn month and see how you feel!"

[treestar]

13. And what do they think they are accomplishing?

They'd only be putting it off even longer, so that their grandchildren but not their children may ever see it.

[TicketyBoo]

14. This seems a good place to post this.

Everyone knows about Nebraska's blue dog Democratic Senator, Ben Nelson.

Well, of course, we have a Republican Senator, too. (Both of them used to be governor, but I digress.)

Anyway, I didn't just settle for writing and calling Nelson (no e-mail address on his website), but I e-mailed Mike Johanns, too. Since I e-mailed him, every week I get an e-mail report from him, and every week I reply, LOL.

A part of the last e-mail from him:

HEALTH CARE DEBATE CONTINUES TO LACK BIPARTISANSHIP
Earlier this week, Democrats announced their plan to pass their unpopular health care bill without bipartisan support, even if it means using reconciliation to bypass the Senate filibuster and the will of the American people. While it's true that reconciliation has been used by both parties in the past, it has never been used to pass sweeping legislation such as health care reform with zero bipartisan support. As Sen. Johanns noted during his media call yesterday, previous uses of reconciliation, including the 2001 tax cuts, had strong bipartisan support at final passage.

My reply to Senator Johanns:

"previous uses of reconciliation, including the 2001 tax cuts, had strong bipartisan support at final passage"

The history of reconciliation can be found with a simple Google search:

http://www.timesargus.com/article/20100305/OPINION04/3050320

From that article: "only three of the thirteen reconciliation bills garnered wide support from both parties."

Please, please, please don't imply something that isn't true. This is not information, it is disinformation. I'm sure that most people BELIEVE an e-mail which comes from a Senator's office, and they SHOULD BE ABLE to believe an e-mail which comes from THEIR Senator's office. A person should not have to search on Google to find the whole truth. This is a dishonest and dishonorable practice coming from the office of an honorable man. This is very disappointing and disheartening.

Not everybody out here is against health care reform. I wish it were Medicare For All, but we have to have something. There are some things that people need their government to do, and at this critical point in time with hard economic times and people losing their jobs and health insurance every day, health care is one of those things that need to be done by government. Please change your mind, give your input on improving things, and let's get this done for the American people.

Every week, I tell him, "Give us Medicare For All." You'd think he would give up on e-mailing me. It must be an automatic thing.

[Cha]

16. Thanks for getting Active on your Nebraska

Senators, Tickety.

[Peacetrain]

17. Oh I have those moments .. I know what you mean

Finally told someone just to go to hell.. :banghead:

[Arkana]

20. I have come so very, very close to posting a flameout thread.

The only reason I'm even sticking around is because I want my donor star to run out. If it's still bad by November, I'm scorching the fucking earth.

I hate the fact that this place has allowed itself to slide into the abyss of angry liberalism. We've abandoned ANY pretense at wanting to get shit done. We want Obama to stand on some ever-changing set of principles. Great! If he did, you'd be complaining that nothing got done--and guess what? So would the rest of the country.

The greatest Presidents--Lincoln, TR, Wilson, FDR, Johnson, Clinton--did what they did because they knew how to get things done. Not because they took their ball and went home.

I read crap like this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7864661&mesg_id=7864661

It makes me want to slam the OP in the face with a brickbat.

[gratefultobelib]

18. You're one of my favorites. I hope you stay!

[nevergiveup]

19. I am fighting high blood pressure and have no clue why I keep coming back to DU

The "kill-the-bill" mentality that you make reference to is unconscionable especially coming from what is suppose to be a progressive site and I think it is more dangerous than the "kill-the-bill" mentality that permeates the fringe right because most folks here are smarter and know better. People are dying and posters here are still demanding their perfect pony. It is unbelievable. When one studies the history of Medicare and Social Security the question about whether we should or should not pass this bill is a no-brainer. Please hang in there. We are on the right side of history and we are going to win this thing with or without the naysayers of DU.

[Clio the Leo]

21. Try viewing the threads by "start time" and not "last reply"....

... I'm not kidding. It may help.

Click the column for "start time" and that way the threads are listed in order of when they were created ... by the time the rancor gets too annoying, the thread is way down the page and you wont notice it.

That's what I do.

I dont usually realize that there's a fight about something unless someone makes another thread saying, "so about this thing we're fighting over...."

By viewing the threads by time started, even if a thread is negative, you usually only have to read the OP and not all of those who agree with her.

I would HATE to see my "dude who kept reminding us by posting the Gallup poll showing how far ahead Obama was" to get disillusioned with DU. 'Twould be quite sad. (puts hand to forehead)

[Arkana]

22. Well, the forces of Angry just suffered another body blow.

Raul Grijalva has come around. He's going to vote for the bill and he believes the President supports a public option.

[Cha]

23. Too exciting for our Health Care Reform!

[quiet.american]

24. Woot! Great news. "...forces of Angry" - perfect. nt

[johnaries]

25. Same here. And also the anti-mandate mentality.

It wouldn't bother me so much except that they then jump on any excuse to condemn that which is good and Progressive. I see so many correlations between this crowd and the same things that we (and THEY) criticized BUSHCO for.

I hate hypocrits.

[Pirate Smile]

26. It is horrible today and I've noticed that the weekends seem worse then work days. It becomes

disgruntled DU all day long.

It's sick.

I just love all the folks willing to just tell 31 million uninsured that they can just wait until next time. :eyes:

It reminds me of something from an article on Obama before the election - It was about how much he disliked people preferring Glorious Defeat to an Imperfect Victory. It was emphasized during his work as a community organizer. People desperately need help but there is a segment of activists and politicians who prefer to shoot the moon and end up with nothing then get as much help for those who need it as they can at a certain time and place. Screws over the people they are supposed to be trying to help. This Kill the Bill crap is a perfect example.

[Cha]

27. Thanks for that Pirate..

In life and death matters ..there are no "glorious defeats".

[Cha]

28. And, I see they're still whining

about Pres Obama campaigning on the PO..well, isn't that too bad that enough asshole Senators didn't want it so they went for what they could do to get a solid foundation for progress instead of their damn regressive stand offs.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cha]

31. I've often wished that..

that I knew some DU Obama supporters in real life. Sometimes I can't wait to get home from work and log in so I can just let it all out on how much I appreciate his Presidency.

Hang in there BOGsters..EYE ON THE PRIZE!!

Pic of Pres Obama w/real life Supporters in Glenside, Pa. :patriot::patriot:
http://chipsticks.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/a-warm-welcome-sizzling-warm/

[Cary]

30. I hear you Berni. . .

I wish I had some better wisdom for you but, alas, I don't.

If you want another forum you could try www.newsrake.org. It's not DU and we have a few seriously mentally ill rightists, or whatever they are. However we have a dozen solid liberals and I would love to have more to exchange ideas with.

For some reason the "conservatives" are melting down and withdrawing from serious discussion. I'm sure that's significant in some respect but I don't really know how.