How do we turn the FISA carping into something productive? They shout the end of Democracy..

[MarjorieG]

Do we have persuasive counter-arguments enough to satisfy the emotion and the nobility at shouting negatives at the top of their lungs? I've read a couple, but do we want to continue this?

[NattPang]

1. It is really over the top.

Has been since June 20th.
I do know that the media
and Obama's foes love this
a great deal.

[Connie_Corleone]

2. Continue to urge people to read the bill before commenting on it.

Other than that, there will always be people having a fit over anything Obama says or does.

Some people have tried to offer counterarguments, but you have people on here acting like they're Constitutional experts or repeating what they hear from Greenwald and Turley without even bothering to read the bill for themselves.

All I know is that with the congress we have, this bill was probably the best "compromise" we're going to get. This bill is different than the previous FISA bills. Hopefully, one of the amendments will be added, but I doubt it.

The only thing to do now is do whatever we can to get Obama into office so he and his attorney general can reverse some of the damage Bush has caused to our Constitution.

[wildflowergardener]

3. Bill

Has anyone found a non legal speak explanation of what the bill does? I tried reading the bill, but I'm afraid I really didn't understand it - as far as I got in it - assuming I was reading the right thing - I found it on the Senate website.

Meg

[MBS]

4. OK, I'm going to dissent a bit here

I do believe that FISA is a serious issue, and that the Dems should be ashamed that more of them didn't stand up for this. And I'm proud that Sens Dodd, Feingold, Kerry, Boxer et al have consistently stood up against the bad provisions in this bill, and that they have all made eloquent, serious, important statements on the dangers of this bill, and I wish that more Dems. had heeded their words
And I'm not only disappointed, but also mystified, that Obama didn't stand with the Dodd-Feingold-Kerry contingent on this. (I didn't find his statement all that persuasive, and it continues to feel inconsistent to me in the context of everything that he and his campaign stand for). I do think that Obama made a mistake in judgment here, and missed an opportunity to show real leadership; at this point, I can only cross my fingers that he can make up for this mistake in some way, perhaps (as Feingold suggested) by amending this bill when he's president.

I've been a firm supporter of Obama since December, and, unlike some of the people on DU, I will not withdraw my support because of his FISA vote, nor for a few of the other more minor mistakes he's made since June. (And I do think that he's made some, again, mystifying to me since his primary campaign was absolutely outstanding: he never put a foot wrong during the primaries . . ) . But I have to say that my support for Obama persists in spite of not because of his FISA vote.