Why is immigration the last straw with Republicans?

[TeddyKGB]

Can anyone chalk this up to anything but naked racism?

It can't be about cheap labor; they live for that.
It can't be about respect for the law; then they wouldn't defend Scooter Libby.
It can't be concern about social services; lots of new citizens means lots of tax revenue.

So, of all the flouting of conservative principles over the last 6+ years, this is the one they get up in arms about?
How do they legitimately explain themselves on this in any other way than racism?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. naked racism.

:shrug:

[LisaM]

2. Xenophobia

They are afraid of sharing power.

[TeddyKGB]

6. It does mean adding millions of potential Democrats to the voting rolls.

That's gotta freak 'em out.

[Karenina]

36. Underpants 'splains it all to you...

underpants Fri Jun-01-07 01:01 PM
Original message
"They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure" (VIDEO)
This is in 2007 not in 1907 FYI


http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/05/31/bill-oreilly-t ... /

Bill O'Reilly: But do you understand what the New York Times wants, and the far-left want? They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure, which you're a part, and so am I, and they want to bring in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have. In that regard, Pat Buchanan is right. So I say you've got to cap with a number.

John McCain: In America today we've got a very strong economy and low unemployment, so we need addition farm workers, including by the way agriculture, but there may come a time where we have an economic downturn, and we don't need so many.

O'Reilly: But in this bill, you guys have got to cap it. Because estimation is 12 million, there may be 20 . You don't know, I don't know. We've got to cap it.

McCain: We do, we do. I agree with you

[mikelgb]

3. racism

[Critters2]

4. I think Republicans oppose it because of racism,

Dems because of cheap labor. Either way, it doesn't look like * is going to get his way on this.

[TygrBright]

5. It makes a great distraction from issues that would get their asses thrown in jail or...

...sent to the Hague if people really started to take notice and get upset.

Immigration is a 'safe' thing for people to be mad at the GOPpies about. They can posture and ponder and make asses of themselves all they like but there's not many opportunities for GOPpie elected officials to commit criminal acts in how they treat the issue.

Voting, on the other hand...
The Occupation of Iraq, on the other hand...
Katrina and its aftermath, on the other hand...
Abramoff & Co., on the other hand...

See? They know people are pissed at them, and there isn't much they can do about it, so it's safer to pile as much as possible of the anger on an issue that can't get any of them indicted.

informatively,
Bright

[Phredicles]

29. Bingo - I've thought for a while this was a big red herring.

[athebea]

62. You are repeating the blunders of the past

Way back in the 70's and 80's the Democratic party responded to the wave of violent street crime that was surging across America by insisting that it was all because of 'root causes' and 'society was to blame' and people afraid of crime were 'racist'. This at a time when people planned their lives around being off the street before dark.

This refusal to validate or even respect people's legitimate security based fears cost the Democratic Party the White House for a generation. Voters will not vote for people who flatly are not on their side.

Fear trumps political correctness. It always will. People look at what is happenning to California and do not want that in their states.

[Phredicles]

68. I live in California and I'm telling you what you're saying is

a crock of right-wing hype.

I'' also say that yielding to "fear" is what got us into the unconstitutional mess we're in today.

[athebea]

78. Isn't it a fact...

...that the California state budget is collapsing under the weight of all the schools and prisons you have to build ? And why ? Illegals.

[Phredicles]

81. No, that's not a fact. Sorry.

[conscious evolution]

31. I agree with this assessment.

[athebea]

64. The Illegal is the working class H1b

How many of the liberals righteously whining about 'racism' would welcome an unlimited number of H1b's ? If not, wow, how bigoted you must be against Indians ! If you work in high tech how safe would your job be ?

Well its the same thing for working class people. The illegal is the working class version of the H1b.

[live love laugh]

85. Nail. On. Head. nt

[ingac70]

7. Your average trailer park dwelling Fundie...

Does not "live" for cheap labor.

[TeddyKGB]

11. Yeah, Thomas Frank already addressed that.

It's "What's the Matter with Kansas" - they don't vote for their own economic self-interest.

[WilliamPitt]

8. Racism? Partially. Local budgets? Definitely.

A lot local municipalities in Western states are getting killed because their schools have to teach everything in two languages. That doubles costs in an arena - education - where funds aren't adequate to begin with. Then you have higher insurance rates because of car accidents involving uninsured illegal residents.

Racism is an easy answer, but this stuff poses real dilemmas for a lot of state and local governments. It is a real burden. A solution does need to be found.

[TeddyKGB]

13. Somehow, I don't think Joe Sixpack...

...that votes Republican and listens to Rush Limbaugh opposes it because of insurance rates.

I could be wrong.

But I'm not.

[WilliamPitt]

16. If Joe Sixpack is paying double to keep the truck on the road

and can't sell his house because the school district is broke...?

It's easy to attribute one-dimensional idiocy to these people, but they have to pay bills, too.

[TeddyKGB]

17. First time I've heard insurance or schools brought up in this debate

So, call me a cynic, but I absolutely believe "one-dimensional idiocy" is a helluva lot more present here than a real discussion of the issues.

(By the way, am I going to have to call a hypothetical doubling of something a "Pitt"? You know, like six months is a "Friedman"? Everything's literally doubling? Really?)

[WilliamPitt]

18. Not sure what you mean?

Do you mean that discussing the actual economic impact of illegal immigration on communities isn't germaine?

"People vote with their wallets" is a political axiom. Gas prices, consumer goods, home heating fuels, taxes...people vote their wallets. If illegal immigration is costing people a lot in Western communities, why would this be exempt from that axiom?

[TeddyKGB]

21. Where are you hearing discussions of the economic ramifications of this?

It ain't on Free Republic, that's for damn sure - and I seriously doubt Fox News or even the friendlier MSM outlets are talking about it, either.

John Gibson and Billow Reilly talking about preserving the Great White Way seems to get a helluva lot more traction from where I'm sitting.

[WilliamPitt]

30. Which is why relying on TV news is such a bad idea.

Illegal Immigration: The Cost For School Districts
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17878368&BRD=1776&PAG=461&dept_id=6365&rfi=6

How Illegal Immigration is Sending Schools Into the Red
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_research2fdc

...for starters. This likely comes from the same kind of xenophobes you and others point to, but they're talking dollars and cents instead simple of Anglo superiority.

Here's the counter-argument:

The American Immigrant: Boon or Burden?
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2007,0604-hathi.shtm

Shoot your TV. :)

[TeddyKGB]

32. Thanks, but...

...by and large, I still think most Republicans are blissfully unaware of the intricacies of the issue and are just knee-jerk racist about it.

That may make me a knee-jerk for believing that, but I've yet to find evidence otherwise.

[athebea]

58. Social Services and the rule of law across the West ...

...are collapsing under the strain of Mexico actively exporting it's poor people to the American taxpayer and the pious liberals on his board are snickering how it is 'racist' and 'xenophobic' of Americans to mind.

California is in budgetary meltdown. Why ? Illegals. They comprise 50% of California's prison population. The school system is collapsing under the sheer weight of them. Public hospitals are closing because their emergency rooms treat everyone for free and illegals take full advantage of it. California can't build schools or prisons fast enough to fill Mexico's needs.

And the rule of law. Maywood, California, for instance, had a sanctuary city policy. The problem was that when the police stopped drunken, speeding drivers, so many of them were illegals that the city government decided to stop drunken, speeding drivers altogether. The gang problem in Los Angeles is completely out of all control. It won't be long before Los Angeles is 'Brazilified' with rich anglos living behind fortified walls surrounded by favelas of wretchedness. We are importing the worst aspects of Latin America.

And for those who romantically imagine that all dark skinned people are natural allies, the Black-Hispanic rivalry in California has become as violent as the Black-Irish rivalry of the mid 19th century. Why ? Same reason. Zero sum socioeconomic competition. Blacks are murdered for crossing into Hispanic 'turf' now. Illegals displace Blacks and poor whites from the labor force.

Northern Mexico is in a state of drug lord anarchy where the severed heads of cops are put on spikes before the town hall with the sign, "So that you learn respect" by drug gangs. How long before we have that kind of lawlessness here ? Already MS-13, an incredibly vicious gang, has spread across the country, being particularly entrenched in the DC and Northern Virginia area.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. "Federation for American Immigration Reform."

They get millions for the white supremacist "Pioneer Fund."

Fits in with the OP rather nicelt.

[denverbill]

35. Being one of those western staters, I can assure you that the economic impact is the primary issue.

With most right-wingers, they have been told repeatedly by the liars on right-wing radio that illegal aliens collect welfare checks and social security, and they believe it.

But beyond the lies, there are deeper issues. Illegal immigrants have largely replaced American teenagers at many jobs. They are the cooks and wait staff at fast food joints, they do roofing and painting and landscaping, etc. An American teenager who might want to work at one of those jobs will inevitably feel very out of place, likely being the only non-Spanish speaking person in the place.

Many of those jobs were very good paying ones at one time, but when an unlimited pool of undocumented workers beings to take over the market, wages go down to ridiculous levels. If an American teen (or adult for that matter) did roofing or painting 20 years ago, they probably made $10/hour or more. Those jobs pay today about the same as they did 20 years ago. If adjusted for inflation, they should be paying $20-$25 an hour.

There are also other real costs associated with illegal immigrants. If an illegal immigrant is injured in a car accident, no hospital ever refuses him care, but chances are almost zero that he has insurance or will ever pay his bill. The hospital eats those costs, then passes it on to consumers in higher rates for paying customers or higher costs for government insurance programs like Medicaid.

Other things like auto insurance are also impacted. Virtually no illegal immigrant has auto insurance, so when they are involved in an accident and are at fault, the insured person's insurance has to cover it, so our rates for uninsured motorist coverage go up.

I'm very liberal, but I'm as anti-illegal immigrant as the most whacked-out freeper. To me, it has nothing whatsoever to do with race. It's all about economics and numbers. Frankly, I don't care whether all illegal immigrants currently here are given 'amnesty' or not. The only thing that matters to me is that the flow of NEW immigrants is cut off and PERMANENTLY regulated by controlling the border.

[treestar]

42. The baby bust means fewer American teenagers

They are not being replaced; there just aren't enough of them.

I had twin cousins who could get a job whenever they wanted to. They lost jobs for all kinds of misbehavior and could still always get another one.

They were hiring elderly people at McDonald's for a while, because there weren't enough teenagers.

The Canadians realize they need young immigrants, and are trying to get them. Our system lets in mostly old people (by the time they wait out the quotas, they are over 50).

We are just killing our economy with this xenophobia thing; many studies show the right wing meme about the illegals "costing" us anything are untrue. They sound logical at first, but on further study, they are just plain false.

And further, no one ever even tries to calculate what the benefit might be. We don't know how much lettuce would cost, to start with.

They are our low wage labor force, with no rights (because of the threat of deportation) and therefore must be keeping some prices low, and all we do is whine about them.

[denverbill]

50. So do you think it's a good thing that they have no rights?

Is it xenophobic to want people to be here legally so they HAVE rights? Is it xenophobic to want them here legally so they can earn a decent living wage? Is it really xenophobic if a teenage girl doesn't feel comfortable working with a crew of 40 year old Hispanic men who talk and joke all day in a language she doesn't understand? There might be a hint of racism in the latter, but I think it's pretty understandable that a teenager (or adult for that matter) would be very uncomfortable working at a job where he or she thinks all his co-workers might be making jokes at his/her expense all day.

I fully support legal immigration and realize that immigration quotas probably need to rise. But I care about American laborers first, and if you can't control the border, American laborers will see their wages fall. It's happened REPEATEDLY throughout American history, and even a basic history of the labor movement in America will show that time after time, industries/capitalists have forced wages down by flooding markets with immigrants.

They are obviously keeping prices lower, I can attest to that. We had our house painted last year and the roof done 2 years ago and it was WAY cheaper than it should have been. The contractors who gave us our estimates were both Anglo-Americans, but in both cases (and in our carpet installation come to think of it, and the interior painting we got done) the crew that did the work spoke virtually NO English. I suppose it's possible they all had valid green cards, but I highly doubt it. I suppose I should have demanded to see their papers, but I don't begrudge them doing what they are doing. If I was born in Mexico and couldn't make $1/hour there, I'd sure as hell rather sneak into the US to make $10/hour doing hard manual labor than spend my life laboring at starvation wages.

My suggestion would be to tie immigration levels from Mexico to the Mexican minimum wage. If they double their minimum wage, we'll double their quota.

[treestar]

51. No, I think if they had rights, they would be on a more even

playing field, and could not undercut U.S. workers, so I am for visas for anyone who can get a job.

The wages would not fall if the immigrants could claim equal rights, that's why they work for slave wages; because they can be deported. If they couldn't be deported, they could unionize with the u.S. workers and all demand equal pay.

That's why the government does not enforce the laws against employers employing illegal aliens. They know they want this labor force that has no rights and can't compete for equal wages. If you look for cases, you'll find that they never enforce these laws against employers. And the only case where it came up was for illegal aliens who made a claim against the employer with the National Labor Board, and the employer was ordered to reinstate the employee and the employer said we shoudln't have to, because they are illeglly here! So they took advantage of that fact to get around the employer/employee relations laws.

[athebea]

66. You do understand...

"The wages would not fall if the immigrants could claim equal rights, that's why they work for slave wages; because they can be deported. If they couldn't be deported, they could unionize with the u.S. workers and all demand equal pay."

You do understand, don't you that legalizing 12 million illegals means that cheap labor business interests would import 50 million new illegals to replace them ?

You cannot be pro-amnesty and pro-open borders and be truly concerned about free trade and globalization issues. Leftists who are pro-amnesty and pro-open borders are being played for idiots by the Wall Street Journal editorial page.

A viable left can only be based on the needs and interest of working Americans, not vague multiculturalist slop presuming that all dark skinned peoples are natural allies. They most assuredly are not. Blacks and Hispanics in California are at each others throats because illegals are pushing Blacks out of the job market.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

69. It has little to do with race

I don't know about freepers, but I seriously doubt that the drive against the amnesty bill has much to do with racism or xenophobia. Americans are some of the most welcoming people in the world. It's about economics.

It's the Wall Street folks (and their pawns in BOTH the Dem and Rep ranks) that are playing the race card.


EDIT: By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you.

[LBJDemocrat]

70. DING DING DING!

We have a winner!

What you say is right on the money.

:toast:

[athebea]

63. Joe Sixpack pays taxes doesn't he ?

You don't think pouring thousands of wretchedly poor people into a community will impose an absolutely impossible burden on the local tax base and social services ? Especially when it is the policy of the Mexican government to make its poverty problem our poverty problem ?

[Ganja Ninja]

9. Like I keep saying these people are dissatisfied with Bush for

just the opposite reasons you or I are dissatisfied with him.
They don't like the way the war is going and think he should be using nukes on Iraq and Iran.
They're pissed off over immigration because he isn't shipping the Mexicans home at gun point.
They thought they were going to be swimming in cheap gasoline by now and instead the price of gas has doubled.
He did everything they wanted him to do and it all blew up in their faces so now it's all his fault.

[diamidue]

37. That's my view as well.

My neo-con relatives are so ticked off at Bush over this immigration thing that they are seriously thinking of leaving the country. They are totally obsessed with the issue. It doesn't help that they subscribe to all these neo-con publications that keep pushing this same button over and over again. They solely blame Bush - not the people around him whom they continue to admire. These people were duped & used the same way the Evangelicals were. About time the truth came back to bite 'em.

[BOSSHOG]

10. When conservatives pony up one way tickets for 12 million people

(How much will that cost?) their next display of brilliance will be scratching their heads at the produce counter trying to figure out why lettuce is five bucks a head. Must be Clinton's fault huh Martha? Dumbass racist trash who spend a great deal of time and effort protecting THEIR constitutional liberties, while attempting to use the constitution as a weapon against those they hate.

[bryant69]

12. Cultural Superiority

I think they don't mind Hispanics who want to come here and be as white as possible, but since most Hispanics and other immigrants insist on keeping their own culture they will ruin America.

They point to the great italian and irish immigrants of years past (without of course pointing out that their ancestors hated and persecuted them when they came over as well).

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Zywiec]

24. Is assimilation = "be as white as possible"?

[bryant69]

27. It probably depends on who you ask.

But of course nobody would admit that that was what they meant by assimilation.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[EFerrari]

48. And that "insistance" is distorted. These wingnuts love to say

"They refuse to learn English!" when the reality is that there aren't enough ESL classes for all the students who want them.

[Clark2008]

57. Not to be too funny, but most wingnuts can't speak English very

well to begin with.

Listen to Georgie...

[Lobster Martini]

14. Have to go with the distraction theory...

W. mentioned illegal immigration in 2000, but my perception is that it didn't become a priority until the wheels started to fly off the covered wagons.

Addendum--wonder if the fact that Vicente Fox is no longer President has anything to do with the timing...

[Wiley50]

15. It's a tale of two bases

Simple. The Corporate Elite wants Cheap Migrant Labor
Bush's working stiff "Bubba" base
watch their jobs go away and their wages go down

Bush's real base the "Have More's" win

and our corporate DLC dems are in on it too


I worked construction for 30 years
Every time I demanded a raise I got the same reply,
"If you don't like your job I can get a Mexican to do it for less money"

Not that I think it was the Mexican's fault

[Buzz Clik]

19. For all the knuckledraggers I know, it's naked racism.

[taught_me_patience]

20. Racism

trumps their love of the corporation.

[librechik]

22. raw bigotry combined with self righteous moralism ("it's a CRIME!")

that they've got themselves all tangled in.

[Initech]

23. Minutemen = new KKK. "Ameruka fer Amerukans!!!"

[SemiCharmedQuark]

46. More like the modern "Know-Nothing" party

[hughee99]

25. Having talked with a few conservative family members about this...

For them, it comes down to $$ and their perception of poor people. In a nutshell...

The way they see pretty much all illegal immigrants, in their own little "reality", is as a cross between the stereotypical right-wing description of a welfare-queen and gang member. They think that there's a constant flood of people who contribute nothing to society, drain public services, raise crime rates, lower property values, and force their culture on everyone else. It makes it even more upsetting that they feel that any time anyone points this out this "reality", they're attacked as being a racist.

I don't think I have to go into how inaccurate a portrayal of illegal immigrants this is, but my relatives were pretty much in agreement that this is what they believed.

[sofa king]

26. It's all they have left.

Gay marriage is beaten into the dirt. They can't campaign on abortion because someone might ask why they didn't do something about it in the five years that they controlled the entire federal government. Their foreign policy is a disaster, their domestic policy is a disaster, they fucked up every single office of the executive branch from the Department of the Interior to NASA. Most Americans are worse off than they were before Florida was stolen, or think they are.

The only thing left is to go hatin' on the Mexicans.

And I can't wait for it, because shooting this issue down should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

It's so easy to draw a line from the destruction of labor unions and relaxation of enforcement of the illegal employer laws under Saint Ronnie to the present day that nobody will be able to deny that this is a Republican-created problem, just like everything else.

It will be good fun to watch every one of the dozen or so white-haired Caucasian male Republican Presidential candidates explain away their own illegal immigrant nannies, gardeners, and laborers.

And to prove they're full of it, all we have to do is challenge any Freeper a-hole who sees illegal immigrants working to report the violation to the federal government... and then watch nothing happen, 'cause it's Republicans illegally employing the illegal immigrants.

Better still, the issue alienates the one minority that does not consistently vote Democratic. Hispanic voters have historically wavered between their catholic conservatism and the party which actually represents them--the Democrats. This issue will tear it for good and I'll be happy to welcome Hispanics into the Democratic Party for the next fifty years as a result of this election cycle.

I'm convinced that what makes this issue so appealing to the knuckle-dragging racists and the rest of the Republicans is their lack of understanding of the issue, but the longer they keep it on the burner, the more often the message is going to get across: this is a Republican-created issue, perpetuated by Republicans, profited from by Republicans. And maybe for once those doofuses will make the correct decision, decide that there is no candidate who actually supports their fucked up einsatzgruppen dreams, and stay the fuck home on election day.

[conscious evolution]

33. einsatzgruppen

Very few words give me raw,cold chills.That one does.

You mentioned calling the feds.I have been telling people this for a while now.Almost universaly answered with "Fat lot of good that will do".Then I tell them to call the IRS.To say that so and so is paying people under the table to avoid taxes.
I know of a couple of companies that have shelled out a bunch of money fighting the IRS because of this.

[sofa king]

44. You're right: I shouldn't wave that one around carelessly.

Unfortunately, every time I think that it's a bad idea to compare these bastards to the Nazis they go and do something straight out of the Joseph Goebbels playbook.

This issue in particular concerns me. They've gone so far to create the climate of fear and dehumanization which could justify terrible deeds along the border that at this point I'm a little surprised that it's not already spontaneously erupting. The rule of law is already out the window and has been for years now; if those pickup truck patriots figure that out, things could get ugly real fast down there.

Edit: I'm not sure I got my main point across: immigration is the Republican issue of choice this election cycle. This is the dead horse they're gonna flog for the next eighteen months. The complicit media will dutifully report only half the story. It will be up to us to explain that it's only an issue because rich white employers are stealing jobs from Americans. But it's easy to do and should be done.

[distantearlywarning]

28. Yeah, pretty much - it's racism.

They're all terrified of the brown-skinned people. The brown-skinned people are a big concern for the average Republican-type person, so the immigration stuff really riles them up.

I say this from experience, having a Republican fundie grandmother who I talk to on a regular basis. The number one thing that made her really freakin' mad in the last 6 months was the fact that her senior home DARED to have a Chinese culture day. OMG!!!! NOT A CHINESE CULTURE DAY!!! HOLY SHIT SHE MIGHT HAVE TO EAT FRIED RICE OR SOMETHING!!!! THIS IS HUGH!!!111!! :eyes:

Yeah, so anyway. She got very upset about this and went on a big tirade about how she doesn't want to celebrate any *insert nation with brown-skinned people here* day and we should only be celebrating "American" day. I couldn't think of a good way to point out that the best definition of American culture is the melting pot, never mind what exactly would "American Day" be anyway given that just about everything we think of as belonging solely to our young country is taken from somewhere else including lots of places where the natives have brown skin, so I just let it go. But that's a perfect example of how these people are nuts about this kind of thing. I haven't mentioned to her yet that my new house is in a primarily African-American neighborhood. She'd probably freak out and send me about a dozen letters warning me about "those people" and telling me not to make eye contact and to make sure to keep my doors locked at all times.

[Recursion]

34. Immigration is the one wedge that absolutely divides the GOP coalition

Because it is an issue that both the robber barons and the fundamentalists cannot compromise on (the robber barons can't have labor get more expensive, and the fundies can't have America get more Catholic) and on which they 100% oppose each other. The flat-earth wing of the party feels mightily betrayed by the fact that * has only actually supported the Uncle Moneybags wing of the party: immigration is the issue where this betrayal comes to an unavoidable confrontation.

[treestar]

38. Yes it is.

This is THE issue to bug republicans on. Their stances contradict all of their economic stances.

One was going on about how terrible the minimum wage law is, how it interferes with the free market, government regulations where it should not be, etc.. I challenged him on how he should also, logically, be against all immigration restrictions and it should only be documentary. Employer should be able to hire and employee to decide to work for whoever at whatever rate.

No, he keeps dodging that and saying the "immigration laws ought to be obeyed." Well, that means the minimum wage laws "ought to be obeyed." Or he says that the employer should be able to hire whoever he wants if it is "legal." Well then it's illegal to pay less than the minimum wage.

They are against government regulation of the economy, except for this one thing. Then suddenly, the government should restrict who can work for who and where.

Also I think our refusal to take immigrants can lead to outsourcing. But right wingers are oddly not all that bothered by outsourcing.

[Cleita]

39. You'd think that they would be more concerned about the war

and what it's costing us, but no, they are pissed off about immigration.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Racism camouflaged with "concern" for American workers.

[athebea]

59. "Concern" for American workers ?

Ever heard of Adam Smith ? Like when you glut a supply of something the price drops ?

Well, when you glut a labor market of unskilled and semi-skilled labor, the wages drop. Why else do cheap labor business interest have such a love for illegals ? What the hell do you think the motivation of the Wall Street Journal editorial page is ? Multicultural compassion ?

Your 'compassion' is at the direct economic expense of nickel and dimed Americans.

[EstimatedProphet]

43. Yeah, it's racism and bigotry

They don't want "those people" here, unless the whole lot of them suck up and give them money.

[Sapere aude]

45. The reason behind the illegal immigrant protests is just what O'Reily stated.

Protection of the white christian male dominance. Xenophobia. Fear of cultural change. Unable to deal with cultural change.

The one about them having broken the law is true but who hasn't broken a law. That is just pure hypocrisy. The one about them not paying taxes is a lie. They pay payroll tax and sales tax.

The one about them getting free medical treatment is true at hospitals where it is against the law to turn people away for lack of funds. But that same treatment is available to the poor who are not immigrants also. Besides, would you want a bunch of sick people all around you?

The one about over crowed schools is true. But who has voted for a school bond measure lately and how are they going to assimilate or learn english? And given that a large part of the immigrant children were born here means they have the same right to a public education as non immigrant children.

It makes sense to me that if the working class of this country would embrace the illegal immigrants and form a large voting majority the corporations would not be able to have as much power to pit one group against the other because the union movement would be revived.

The immigrant population is organizing and forming unions. They have won living wage battles in Los Angeles and other cities. The benefits of those actions flow down to all of us.


But on the other hand deport them all back to Mexico so we can pick fruit and $12 an hour. (never happen)

[EFerrari]

47. They can't. It's their fall back issue.

And as I said in a post some time ago, the party that harvests racists and controls our election will visit destruction on us with impunity until we stop them.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

49. Because the party thrives on FEAR

They'll use anything they can to scare Americans with the idea of change. They can use immigration to scare people, so they use it.

It's a good strategy for them to use. People will tolerate a lot more when they are threatened especially when the "enemy" (gays, "secularists", "darwinists" immigrants) is dehumanized.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

52. Nobody points out the social security that they pay into.

The illegal immigrants get fake Social Security numbers, get jobs, and pay into Social Security. Meanwhile, they will never be able to collect this money when they retire because they are not citizens.

They are the reason that Social Security is running a surplus.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

71. Do you have a source for that?

That this is why social security is running a surplus?

[Ladyhawk]

53. The Republicans in my family get riled about whatever the outrage du jour is.

They are told by O'Reilly, Hannity and Limbaugh to hate the illegal immigrants more than anything else, so they do.

[LeftishBrit]

54. Because xenophobia is one of the key characteristics of the right-wing base in many countries

In the UK, right-wing tabloids such as the "Daily Mail", and certain politicians, have made a long-term career of whipping up anti-immigrant fever.

[athebea]

65. 'Law and Order' will always trump political correctness

Because across the Western World it imposes quality of life, crime and tax burdens on the native working class that pit them directly against the righteously multicultural liberals who instinctively identify with the 'Other' and call them 'racists'. This makes people who naively expect their politicians to look out for their interests mad.

It is like how crime during the 60's and 70's severed the New Deal coalition with liberals piously preaching about 'root causes' and calling people who now suddenly lived in physical fear 'racists'. We see it now with the Sarkozy victory on a 'law and order' platform and the wholesale destruction of the French communist party as its working class base now votes for Le Pen. 'Law and order' will beat political correctness every time.

[Yukari Yakumo]

55. Don't forget the war on Drugs.

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070530/NEWS01/705300311/1002

Though people like this are in the minority, things like this won't do favors for the immigration debate.

[OllieLotte]

56. Money.

The average immigration family uses $30K of services per year.

[athebea]

60. You are dead wrong about everything

It can't be about cheap labor ? Has it dawned on you that not all Republicans are rich fat cats ? Many are actually workers ?

Lots of new citizens means lots of tax revenue ? Really ? Lots of wretchedly poor new citizens means a massive net loss to the taxpayer and at the precise moment that the baby boom is set to retire. Look at what is happenning in California. They can't afford all the new schools and prisons they will have to build for the waves of illegals.

This issue splits both parties along class lines.

[LBJDemocrat]

74. Again, right on

The caviar left that doesn't give a rat's ass about the American worker's struggle to put food on the table - that faction loves immigration. So does Wall Street.

Working Repubs and working Dems are united on the issue.

[athebea]

75. Precisely

The limouisine left is always making blue collar Americans pay the price of their 'compassion'.

Notice how the MSM is so enthusiastically pro comprehensive immigration reform and pro free trade ? Coincidence. It serves the same oligarch interest.

The people behind comprehensive immigration reform intend to model America after Latin America at its worst. They see themselves as el jefe in the white suit behind fortified walls.

[Orsino]

61. They need someone to hate...

...and liberals aren't so easy a target now that the Dummy-in-Chief has more or less discredited the neocons' wet dreams.

[Skidmore]

67. It's splitsville time for the greedy corporate masters and the

gullible people they've convinced sacrifice their interests on economic issues for social bullshit issues over the past 2 decades. These people who are objecting used to be the cheap labor. People are hurting our here and the Democratic Party has added to it by forsaking the American worker for the attentions of the coporate board members.

[LBJDemocrat]

72. I chalk it up to economics

Racism is the product, not the cause.

The cause is low wages due to importation of labor. Also, the burden on communities over there to create schools and hospitals for the immigrants.

[Nunyabiz]

73. Immigration is the last straw because Faux Noise says it is

[gollygee]

76. They don't want to be the minority

and have to face the same kinds of things they've done to others.

[pitohui]

77. what republicans? they are consistently pro illegal immigration

as far as i can tell it's all about union busting and bringing down salaries of the american worker

no mystery to it

[Deja Q]

79. Good call, re: Scooter. The usual politicians' mantra of "Do as I say, not as I do"...

I fear you may be right.

But that doesn't mean there are those who want to see uniform laws, regardless of country they come from.

And it can't be about cheap labor; that's why they outsource - including other countries on this continent so I know half my opinions on one or two other topics are clearly tinfoilhat garbage. Gotta remember that, but it's still fun... I should write a suspense thriller novel...

[Zero Division]

80. Blaming illegal immigrants as the primary source of the working class'

problems is a great way to distract from the real source of the problem, the political hegemony of the wealthy in this country. It's not just an effective tool on the right, but as we can see from many of the illegal immigration threads on DU, it also works quite well on the left.

I'm not in favor of unrestricted immigration and I recognize that immigrants can overwhelm the infrastructure of communities at times, but many people are dehumanizing illegal immigrants and directing the vast majority of their anger at other exploited people rather than the exploiters. It's just another divide and conquer technique. What many fail to understand is that the exploiters win on both sides of the argument. There is no single side on this issue that doesn't support something that helps those who are exploiting the working class.

[athebea]

82. Divide and Conquer ?

Somebody who wants your job is not your ally.

The unionized worker and the strike breaker are not allies.

The illegal is the ally of the WSJ cheap labor agenda which is the enemy of working Americans so righteously pretending that working Americans fighting to protect their families and livelihoods are 'dehumanizing illegal immigrants' is caviar left claptrap.

[Zero Division]

83. What do you think causes most illegal immigrants to come here?

A burning desire to hurt working class Americans? I'm certain you find that as ridiculous as I do. They are being exploited just as surely as those of us in the working class are being exploited. They aren't the primary source of the problems. The weakening of laws and rights that protect and support workers in this nation and the nations from which the illegal immigrants come are to blame.

I think we must find a way to legalize many of those who are already here and prevent any future overflows of illegal immigration without causing an undue amount of suffering (destroying many families, interning people under inhumane conditions, etc.) or joining hands and rhetoric with white supremacists, neo-nazis, and their sympathizers. I don't believe this has to conflict with efforts to support the working class in America and weakening the influence of wealth in our political system. If that bit of an attempt at decency and empathy with other exploited people makes this $9.50/hr retail worker writing this post a "caviar liberal", so be it.

[athebea]

84. It's business

Zero sum socioeconomic competition isn't personal.

[bridgit]

86. it's their fright filled feelings for their daughters off to a Friday Night Tejano Two-Step Dance...

with an unruly band of surly, tequila swigging landscapers with pockets full of $'s that spend just like theirs :)