You don't know me - but I am telling you this fight is going north.

[Joe for Clark]

And they, apparently, didn't think it thru when they injected forces from all over the counry to converge on Baghdad. To this moment I can't believe the US Army didn't know that to be a probablity.

I am telliing you they knew - and if there was ever any evidence this president didn't listen to commanders this is it.

And I know I said reinforce the north once - But I am sorry right now I ever said that. I should have just kept that to myself. Knowing they knew.

In less than 75 days there is going to be a blood bath there, in that provence - and even the optimistic side of me thinks this can't be avoided now. Too late. It is coming.

And do NOT rate this please.

Joe

[MNDemNY]

1. What are you yakin' 'bout?

Who's "they"
What province?
Rate what?

[Joe for Clark]

28. I would never be able to exlpain it to you and look in a mirror.

You can firure it out.

Joe

[whistle]

2. Yes, please clarify what it is you are referring to and expand on

...the details

[northernsoul]

3. Background / Context please?

It sounds like you're on to something, but I feel like I'm stepping in on a coversation that has already been going on for a while.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zippy890]

4. are you talking about Iraq? northern part of Iraq?

or ...?

[Lex]

6. Perhaps the North Pole

so watch out Santa.

:shrug:

[WiseButAngrySara]

10. LOL! Must be Northern Iraq, but it is cryptic, no? CIA member? ....n/t

[catmandu57]

5. Northern Iraq

Turkey, the Kurds, one more piece of the I told you so puzzle falling into place. We had thread after thread on what would happen way back when, and by gawd it looks like we were right about this one too.

[Cults4Bush]

19. Yep.. Im just kinda taken aback that so many seem to not know what he's

on about. Its cryptic and kinda mid conversation point... but I agree and know what he is talking about.

[annabanana]

25. sigh. .. I wish it didn't suck to be right about this crap. . . . . . .n/t

[jerryme1]

7. I assume you are talking about Turkey and the Kurds. I read today that

Kurdish forces killed 7 Turkish troops. You are certainly on to something.

[earthside]

8. Slaughter of the Kurds?

By Turkish forces ... with the eye-wink approval of Iran.

If so, I have expected that as well. And, now the U.S. forces are fully committed to the 'surge' in Baghdad, tied down and unable to assist the Kurds.

Just like Bush senior betrayed the Kurds, uh?

[rustydad]

9. Hard to follow

But I think you are talking about the Turks massing their forces at the northern border of Iraq. The Kurds are pressing for a fight and if Turkey responds all hell could brake loose. It might even pull in Iran and Syria as both have their own Kurds hoping to form a Kurdistan nation. Bob

[WiseButAngrySara]

12. OMG. Laughing no longer. ....n/t

[butterfly77]

17. So far you all have had me on the floor...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NashVegas]

11. I Remember

I don't know if it was from you, specifically, but there was much talk on DU about what would happen with the Kurd/Turkey situation.

Regardless whether we sell out the Kurds or not, yeah, it's gonna get nuts.

[WiseButAngrySara]

13. Wish you would make further comment, Joe for Clark ! ....n/t

[Joe for Clark]

22. Listen to me - if I do- I would be no better that that god damn -

Geraldo - I know what he did - so fucked.

I have one interest - get our kids home - I don't care about anything else.

He was WRONG - and I know better. I won't do it!!

This was never anything more to me than getting kids home alive - it can never be more.

I really do love those dumb kids. And some one better stand up for them. Cause their officers are AWOL right now. We are the adults in the room.

Joe

[WiseButAngrySara]

29. God I wish I could do something. The tragedy is they are KIDS

fighting in insane MEN's wars who are too cowardly to go to war themselves.

[rustydad]

14. From Asia Times Online

Turkish threat echoes across Iraq
By Sami Moubayed

DAMASCUS - Beleaguered Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, who could be days away from losing US support and with it his job, is seeking renewed Kurdish support, even expressing his full backing for the Kurds in a potentially disastrous confrontation with Turkey.

This move could strengthen his position in internal Iraqi politics, but it looks like political suicide on the regional level, as in



addition to Turkey, Iran and Syria, key players in resolving Iraq's problems, have Kurdish concerns.

The situation on the border has become so tense that US Defense Secretary Robert Gates this weekend cautioned Turkey against a military operation inside northern Iraq to attack outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) bases there. <snip>

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IF05Ak03.html

[WiseButAngrySara]

18. But see post #16 above by the op. ...n/t

[undergroundpanther]

20. Joe

Stay safe.
And do not forget you can refuse any command.

One thing people don't get about Kurds.
They are Yzedis. They believe the maker or creator of this world is evil. yet they appease him..
They call him a peacock angel,Malak Taus (once a rebel angel who recreated the world and doused the fires of hell with his tears).


Yezidi are Gnostic in a sense.And not many ancient gnostic sects survived the hordes of conquerers out to silence them. Some buried their texts.Some are kinda Zoroastrian. Dualism and anti authoritarianism contained in many dualistic beliefs is deemed heresy by organized religion and hated by city states wanting control.

I think one reason so many states have issues with the Kurds is they won't be assimilated and will not become Islamic or Christian.

Throughout history Gnostic types of sects were wiped out by hordes of crusaders. Just like how the Muslims destroyed the huge colossal buddhas a few years back. Some other gnostic/dualist type believers tried to bury their texts knowing they were going to be slaughtered , they hid their secrets hoping it is found later,like the Nag Hammadi was buried,

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

The other way was to go hide away as an obscure tribe in the inaccessible hostile places of the planet. Something like the Kurds tried to do. Cathars come to mind they tried this and failed.

Remember Bush dropped the CRUSADE word.. And what did crusaders do? Kill off whatever or whomever the orthodoxy or state declared a heretic..And it is tragic that the aggressive monotheistic violence condoning religions around the Kurds will not leave them be.

http://altreligion.about.com/library/faqs/bl_yezidism.htm
http://www.vina.cc/stories/PHILOSOPHICAL/2004/8/kurds.vedicindia.html

Dualism does not make you crazy it is twisting your mind into uniting the principle of good with the sorts of evil things that want you to suffer or cause suffering (like Satan,Archon etc.)as ONE god. To me that kind of uniting is crazy making,and sadly the Kurds say they are monotheistic, and because they try to force a duality into being a unity their belief system is rife with contradictions as any monotheistic impositions would make it have to be. I am not so sure they are monotheists. But regardless of what I think the Kurds and the Yezidi carries alot of wisdom and if the Kurds are wiped out, their wisdom will be lost with them. Like the Cathars the Lyons and many other ancient traditional gnostic peoples who once were are only known by the traces left behind when heresy hunters described them.

Being a mal-theistic dualist myself, my heart goes out to the Kurds. If they die fighting,I hope they can spiritually escape this fucked-up world and go to their true spiritual sources and no longer have to fear anything anymore .


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/04/world_yezidi_kurds/html/1.stm
http://www.abo.fi/~owahlbec/kurds.htm
http://www.institutkurde.org/en/conferences/kurdish_studies_irbil_2006/Khanna+OMARKHALI.html
I hope someone in this coming hell ,helps the Kurds and saves their wisdom teachings. Maybe it will be buried from the marauders hands and dug from the sand to be read by millions thousands of years from now like Nag Hammadi was..

[Joe for Clark]

21. Man - I am not even talking about the Turkey intevention -

You are a few steps ahead of me.

And it may well become that.

I am saying - americans will move north to itnerdict rebels moving north.

It was always likely.

It is like that.

Joe

[Socal31]

24. Woah!

Pass that doobie this way buddy!

You got me extremely interested, now put some solid facts/context up so we can join in your concern!

[Joe for Clark]

26. I can't -

I think you will understand - kids north jerked south are going to be jerkked north again.

You will understand then - I think. You will see.

I could never do that without having a "Geraldo" moment - now he is an idiot. I understand this.

Man - I don't want to be that.

But - and I will NEVER say something that I think might kill a kid - I will NEVER do that.

I really do love those kids - I say it - but I mean it too. And I understand the idea of withholing information that is or could be harmful - I really do.

I don't work for Fox news. And the kids come first to me!!!! Always will.

Joe

[Subdivisions]

23. Word, Joe, and

pass that this way bogart...

[Joe for Clark]

27. The best I could ever do is dance around the edges.

I tried my best!

Joe

[Digital]

30. So......

You think that some foreign force is monitoring your posts here on DU for Intel on US troop movement?

Ummm, delusional anyone?

[Marrah_G]

31. His kid is there again, cut him some slack

Of course he doesn't want to say anything to endanger him. It's tough when you hear things from your loved one on the ground there that you really want to share but part of you is afraid that revealing to much could get them hurt.

If his posts come off cryptic try looking inward and ask yourself honestly how you would behave if your child could be killed any second and there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it. Try picturing what your stress levels would be if the simple sound of a doorbell or phone ringing caused you to literally stop breathing.

Anyway....cut Joe some slack please. He's a good guy.

[Digital]

32. Fair enough,

I did not know the back story.

Joe, I hope your kid comes back safe and sound.

[Marrah_G]

34. .

:hug:

I should have asked if you knew the story, I didn't notice you were new here.

Welcome to DU and I am sorry if I sounded harsh.

[Tsiyu]

33. No doubt

Read between the lines, people!

Thanks for standing up for Joe, Marrah

[johnaries]

35. Ya wanna know what I think?

I think that Joe's been drinking. But I think that the REASON he's been drinking is that he knows something that is about to go down that he knows will get a lot our kids killed. But he can't say anything because that would reveal troop movements and strategy and potentially make the problem worse.

Yep, I think ol' Joe's been drinking. and I think it's because he's going through incredible pain and wants to share - but can't. At least, I've seen that before, and this looks very similar.

Regardless, I'll be looking for kids that were jerked south to be jerked north again. And when that happens, I'll be praying for those kids, and I'll have a drink for Joe.

[Joe for Clark]

36. Yeah maybe so

But if I had the proper search engine capablity and I was looking for something - I could probably find it.

I think you should understand there are just some things you never say out loud - and that means anything that could identify any unit in any specific area at any time. Ever. You know if you are wrong - kids can get killed because of it. You know that,