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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:22 AM
Original message
"Non-alcoholic" beer is what the President had in this photo:
Edited on Fri Jun-08-07 10:24 AM by originalpckelly


And you know what? He was unable to attend this morning's session of the G8 because of "morning illness".

Now either Bush is pregnant or he just happened to be ill the day after he had a "non-alcoholic" beer.

Or maybe, just maybe, it wasn't a "non-alcoholic" beer and this dumb shit is off the wagon and he had a hangover this morning? Oh no, that's not possible, after all he's like God, so he doesn't have to worry about the problem of us mere mortal folks.

:eyes:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKFCB00024720070608?src=060807_1159_TOPSTORY_g8_leaders_pledge_aids_cash_for_africa
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. Odd thing for an admitted Alcoholic to be drinking, wouldn't you say?
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, you would think he'd just try to stay away from any kind of beer...
Edited on Fri Jun-08-07 10:29 AM by originalpckelly
even non-alcoholic beer, in the fear that it might just cause him to want a regular one. Of course, on the other hand, it might be like a smoker using Nicorette.

And you know, even non-alcoholic beers contain a small amount of alcohol.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I tend to think the flavor and tiny amount of alcohol might
tempt him to go off the wagon since he is out of the country and has plenty of people looking after him. I bet he indulged after he got back to his suite.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Maybe a nice American drink like a Coke, instead, would be prudent
But then one only expects prudent behavior from a prudent man.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
34. I think there's a typo in your posting.
You described Bush's coke as something he might drink.

Tesha
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. My boss is not going to be happy when I explain that I need a new keyboard
:rofl:
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AndreaCG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
33. One of my coworkers drinks non alcoholic beer without a problem
But I've never seen non alcoholic beer that's so dark.

PERHAPS it''s possible to get dark non alcoholic beer in Europe but I doubt it.
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Decruiter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #33
72. What in the world does Europe need with non-alcoholic beer?
I doubt it too.
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KAT119 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
54. An Avowed Alcoholic who has killed 655,000++ Iraqis-3555+++ US Troops
threatening Iran w/extinction and the entire world w/ the end of all life -living systems as he drunkenly unleashes NUCLEAR APOCALYPSE!!!

Can anyone say arrest this madman???
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #54
76. He's never publically admitted he's an alcoholic.
Bur he does have blood on his hands.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
3. Note to our customers:
Non-alcoholic beers are very low alcohol beers with an alcohol content of less than 1/2 of 1% by volume but none of the beers offered here are completely alcohol free.

http://beergeek.stores.yahoo.net/nonalbu12ho.html
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yep, depending on what brand it was, it could still contain a small amount of alcohol...
Edited on Fri Jun-08-07 10:43 AM by originalpckelly
so I've got to wonder just why it is exactly that Bush is even drinking this kind of beer.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. It's 1/2 of 1%...vanilla extract has more alcohol than that!
I've stopped drinking 8 years ago. But I enjoy an occasional fake beer, if there's a good one available. No O'Douls or any of that shit. So while I disdain Bush and everything he stands for, I'm not buying the "go back and have a real one at his suite" bullshit. I just don't think it's fake beer, judging from the color and head.

.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Of course it could be some expensive fancy schmancy rich person's non-alcoholic beer...
And it might have superior qualities to normal na beer.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Enough of these blasted facts!
I might point out that one doesn't drink a 12 ounce serving of vanilla extract. But overall you're right.
.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
28. When was the last time anyone drank 8 oz. of vanilla extract?
:eyes:
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Not the point...and you wouldn't need 8 ounces...the shit's 60 proof.
The point the other poster was making was that even MINUTE amounts of alcohol, even used in cooking, can cause relapses. Vanilla contains 30% alcohol by volume, so you'd need far less than 8 oz to get the alcohol level of a near-beer. FAR less. In fact, according the the op's logic, Bush shouldn't eat chocolate chip cookies are vanilla cake, either. I'm just calling that silly.

.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
60. You'd risk death from ethyl vanillin poisoning if you did that
Alcohol intoxication wouldn't be much of an issue.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
89. err... my radio officer in the coast guard
we had to lock up all the vanilla and after shave to keep him from drinking it out at sea
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
91. I agree, looks like a "Lager" beer
from it's deep color, asking "Lager" makers to produce a non-alcoholic beer is like asking a salami maker to make low cholesterol
snacks.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
4. Even if it is "near beer" I bet the taste of it
enticed into having the real stuff back in his suite.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. Don't he know that just leads to the hard stuff? Like cigs to pot lthen to meth.
and cocaine.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. can you imagine how he smells??
Peeeyooooooie.
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
71. oh that really grossed me out n/t
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
10. Looks like a dark German draft to me....
My dad used to love dark German beer....
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. Saw the other picture. It was Buckler out of the bottle. Sorry.
When distinguishing beers, I would suggest the taste test is more reliable than the look-at-a-photo test.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. See Post 11
Edited on Fri Jun-08-07 10:51 AM by dogday
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
11. I drink Buckler (NA Heineken) and Kaliber (NA Guiness)
Kaliber is the only NA beer I've run across that has that amber color, and it's actually pretty good...but you don't get a foamy head like that on a fake beer. I know...I've tried just about all of them. Buckler is...meh. St. Pauli NA and Becks NA are both pretty decent "pilsner" style fakes, and there are a couple of decent imports (Clausthauler Amber isn't bad). But again, I've never tried one that kept a head on it for more than a minute. That ain't fake beer.

.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. I mean even if it is, then this guy would seem to be risking relapse.
Considering that this is not the first time he's been spotted with beer or something suspected to be beer, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't back to his old ways.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
31. Oh, I agree
And, in his position of immense stress, he's a prime candidate for relapse. I was speaking in more general terms. Plenty of people can and do work out just fine sipping an occasional NA, but some really do have other influences that make it impossible. I think Bush's borderline personality disorder is his most serious problem, and the alcohol doesn't help.

.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
29. The foamy head is the part that puzzles me.
I like non-alcoholic beers for those events where I want to drink something carbonated but not sweet without getting the sedating effect of alcohol. I agree, that nice foamy head is lacking on NA beers. It's possible that it's NA beer, it just doesn't look like any that I've seen.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #29
88. I took this photo
of my dad with an O'Doul's Amber N/A beer six weeks ago. Nice head.

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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #88
93. Well there you go.
That's why I try to be careful and write that I haven't observed it, not that it doesn't exist. Never had an O'Douls.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
102. Thing is... his hand is behind the glass in that shot...

...which is why it looks amber. The part of the glass that doesn't have his hand behind it seems to have a different color.


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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
12. Training beer.
:)

--IMM
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partylessinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. * was bliltzed. He cannot fool all of the people all of the time.


Does he look like he is suffering? from stomach flu? NO WAY!


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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I think you're right, this guy got drunk...
and today he had a hangover.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
95. ..All on our dime...
Hey chimp, this ain't no society mingle and booze you're attending. Everytime he gets together with Pooty he gets roaring drunk. You'd think this would be some sort of security risk, wouldn't you?
:wtf:
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
97. Here's a photo of Bush's bottle, whatever it is.......
Edited on Sat Jun-09-07 04:29 PM by charles t
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. Can anyone recognize the label?
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. It's Buckler
It's a .5 % (which is N/A IMHO) brewed by Heineken





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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
17. Yes, stomach flu, they said, *cough*, *cough*.
Edited on Fri Jun-08-07 10:41 AM by Cleita
None of the drinks on that tray look non-alcoholic to me. Also, even non-alcoholic beer has a tiny bit of alcohol in it. Recovering alcoholics are discouraged from drinking non-alcoholic versions of alcoholic drinks or eating foot cooked in wine and other spirits because even though the alcohol is cooked off, the reminder of what it tastes like will send many of them back to the bottle.

In Bush's case I can't believe he would be satisfied with near beer. As a former bartender I have never been able to pour a near beer with a nice enough of a head to cling to the glass that way. That's the real thing. How stupid do they think the public is. I wish some reporter would get that server aside and question him as to exactly what he was serving on that tray.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #17
30. Bingo
A good friend who was a recovering alcoholic would seek out rum cake or rum and raisin chocolate before he went on a binge. Alcohol is alcohol.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. "Dry" drunks who pick up, will pick up the real thing. Ask an "old timer"
in the Twelve-Step program and they will tell you this is absolutely unacceptable. My son has been in the program for over 12 years, he says this is absolutely a no-no. Bush's ego would never have him "compromise." He want a beer, you can damned well believe it's going to be the real thing. He's been nipping for a while, time to stop! We shouldn't be tolerating it.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. I think we need to be worried about him doing this.
I think this is more than just one guy having a problem, this is one guy having a problem who also happens to be the decider.
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janetle Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
48. All together now--25th Amend.!!!
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. I would argue that part of your son's problem is AA
They perpetuate the "dependency" bullshit. He's been in the program 12 YEARS? He's got other issues. Seriously. I'm not snarking, but someone who is still clinging to the security blanket of AA after 12 years is no longer in it for the sobriety. It's become his social life, and like all cults, the Stockholm Syndrome takes over, and you begin to actually believe everything they pump into your head. Statistically, AA is absolutely no more effective than ANY other method of quitting. Quitting comes from within, not from a program. No program works if you don't WANT to be sober. Conversely, no crummy NA beer will make one fall off the wagon who wants to be sober.

Congrats to your son, though. 12 years is a long time. I stopped over eight years ago, but never attended a single AA meeting (well, never went back after the one). Your son and his peers would say I'm not really not drinking, because I haven't worked the program. Me and my liver say "bullshit," we can't tell difference. There is no alcohol coursing through my system, yet I can serve drinks, go to beer gardens with friends, I enjoy helping my wife pick out a nice bottle of wine. I just choose not to partake anymore. I also stopped eating red meat years ago, and I don't smoke, but burger joints and smokers don't make me quiver with anxiety...I just don't do 'em cuz I'm afraid they'll kill me, just like the hooch.

.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
38. Contrary to your opinion, he doesn't go to AA meeting all of the time
but has met many nice people there whose company he enjoys. He is dependent on no one or group, and has no issues. I don't drink anymore either and don't attend AA anymore. I learned the tools many years ago and find I no longer need to attend. He has no issues other than keeping friends who helped him years ago and giving it back to others. As a former Marine, he helps to bury dead marines on the weekend.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #38
55. But if you find you no longer need to attend
...doesn't that mean you fit their definition of a "dry drunk," which is AA-speak for "heretic?"

Wouldn't it also follow that you share the same inevitable fate as Bush, then?
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #55
61. An recovered AAer does not have to attend
meetings to stay sober if they still work the program.
The meetings are not the program.Meetings are where we go to teach newbies how to stay sober.
And to serve as a reminder for what can happen if we pick up again.
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #27
39. I wish you wouldn't belittle AA just because it didn't work for you.
I'd be dead if it weren't for AA, and instead I've been sober for 20 years and counting.

I know a lot of old timers who still go to meetings because they enjoy helping the new people get sober. They feel they owe a debt. Some, like me, feel they owe their lives to AA.

I'm a loved grandmother in my family instead of nothing but an unpleasant memory.

To each their own. btw I'm an agnostic, but AA worked for me.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. Good for you
I went to AA a few times when I was 22 because my sister, a binge drinker, talked me into it (you know how these things are genetic). I sat around with all these people who had hit rock bottom as they described experiences with which I absolutely could not relate. The presumption was always if you're there, you must need it. There was no vetting process at all. No one ever asked me something as simple as "have you ever cut back on your drinking, only to find you couldn't?" In AA, it's all or nothing.

Personally, I have found that a good guideline is to ask yourself the following questions: "Is/are my drinking/drugs interfering with the things I want to accomplish in life? With my relationships with others?" If you answer "yes," then it's time to cut back. Not swearing off entirely for life, but try cutting back first. For me, that worked out just fine. It turns out that I was drinking a lot when I was 22 because that's what single, 22 year-old guys do. Now that I'm 39, married, with a toddler, I almost never drink, simply because it does not fit in with my lifestyle.

I guess my point is that the problem with AA is that it is designed for the hardcore, hit-rock-bottom alcoholic. The program is the way it is because that's the way the people who get the most benefit from it need it to be. Lots of places, it's mandatory for people who get DUI's, but there's never any acknowledgment that you could get a DUI without being an alcoholic, or that a non-alcoholic might still have problems if they drink too much, or that simply cutting down on one's drinking is ever a successful possibility for anyone.
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. All true, very true!
AA is geared to those of us for whom the "softer, easier way" did not, could not, work.

People who can manage to "cut back on their drinking" can do so on their own and don't need AA.

And it would be nice if there were an "AA Lite" for the one-time-only DUI guy or the "drink too much now and then" fella --

But I was hardcore, rock-bottom, and your way did not work for me. Obviously it worked for you, and it sounds like you really have your life in order, and I'm glad for you!
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #57
84. there were oldtimers at the old meeting on central park and cermak
in chicago (one of the founders was linked with akron, this meeting started in the early 40s) who claimed that if you still had a wristwatch, you didn't truly hit bottom.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #39
56. I didn't/don't belittle AA...I stated an empirical fact...
No method of "quitting" is any more effective than any other method. AA works for serious AA people because they've made up their mind that they need to/want to quit. They've heard all the stories, and attend an AA meeting, and it helps them follow through with what they wanted to do anyway, because they were in a room full of like-minded people. I attended one AA meeting, and once the prayers started, I was outta there. I attended and SOS (Secular Organization for Sobriety) meeting, and it was much more laid back, more casual and honest. But still, I never went back. I quit anyway...because I wanted to quit and made up my mind that it was time.

AA is best for people who don't really WANT to quit, because it tells them that it's okay to keep falling off the wagon, that that's inevitable. That is just an extension of the social organization...keeps everyone coming back and filling up the meeting halls.

AA works for a LOT of people...but what too few of those people realize is that they actually worked for themselves. AA was a good public forum for them to stand up and proclaim their sobriety, something which is simply not cool in the "outside" world. My objection to AA is the self-fulfilling prophecy aspect of it; if you don't accept their methods, it proves you're a hopeless drunk. But the facts, the statistics, don't support them.

.
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Each person is entitled to his own beliefs and opinions.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. WTF!?!?
AA is best for people who don't really WANT to quit, because it tells them that it's okay to keep falling off the wagon, that that's inevitable. That is just an extension of the social organization...keeps everyone coming back and filling up the meeting halls.


Show me in ANY AA literature where it says it is ok to fall off the wagon.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #63
73. happy to oblige
Edited on Sat Jun-09-07 06:36 AM by datasuspect
if you're just not sure you are alcoholic:

"We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself, step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition."


-Alcoholics Anonymous, pp. 31-32



doesn't necessarily advise one to "fall off the wagon" but it does advise someone to drink alcohol under certain circumstances. however, someone with 3 years who was never quite sure they were alcoholic in the first place, could construe this as realistic advice.


what's interesting is that bill w. seems to think that "the first drink" results merely in "jitters" and not "death."
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #73
80. That example is a test
Edited on Sat Jun-09-07 08:26 AM by conscious evolution
for people who are not sure if they are alkies.
It is used to determine if the physical craving for alcohol is present.
The jitters are also known as DT's.If a person gets the DTs from one drink then they are most likely alcoholic.Normal people don't get DTs from one drink.
That one drink may not lead to death but the jitters from one drink can set off the craving for more.

In case you do not know what DTs are:'Delerium tremens- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens
The exact pharmacology of ethanol is not fully understood: however, it is theorized that delirium tremens is caused by the effect of alcohol on the benzodiazepine-GABAA-chloride receptor complex for the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA. Constant consumption of alcoholic beverages (and the consequent chronic sedation) causes a counterregulatory response in the brain in attempt to re-achieve homeostasis.

This causes downregulation of these receptors, as well as an up-regulation in the production of excitatory neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine, dopamine, epinephrine, and serotonin - all of which further the drinker's tolerance to alcohol and may intensify tonic-clonic seizures. When alcohol is no longer consumed, these down-regulated GABAA receptor complexes are so insensitive to GABA that the typical amount of GABA produced has little effect; compounded with the fact that GABA normally inhibits action potential formation, there are not as many receptors for GABA to bind to - meaning that sympathetic activation is unopposed. This is also known as an "adrenergic storm". Effects of this "adrenergic storm" can include (but are not limited to) tachycardia, hypertension, hyperthermia, hyperreflexia, diaphoresis, heart attack, cardiac arrhythmia, stroke, anxiety, panic attacks, paranoia, and agitation.

This is all made worse by excitatory neurotransmitter upregulation, so not only is sympathetic nervous system over-activity unopposed by GABA, there is also more of the serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, and epinephrine. Direct measurements of central norepinephrine and its metabolites is in direct correlation to the severity of the alcohol withdrawal syndrome.'

edit for spelling
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #80
82. i don't know much about all them fancy words
Edited on Sat Jun-09-07 08:14 AM by datasuspect
i'm just a plain old drunk.

it's not that i can't drink, i just can't do it safely.

and the DTs are "delirium TREMENS"

much different than needing that first drink in the morning to "get right" a side result of "jitters."

and you get DTs if you STOP drinking after a career of being a drunk. that's why a TRUE alcoholic needs to be hospitalized to detox. they can die otherwise.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
90. Exactly my experience with nicotine...
I quit over eight years ago. Tried many methods of quitting, but no product or program ever helped me one iota. Ultimately the I found the willpower to quit, but only from within. Like you, being around smokers and smoking doesn't bother me at all. If I'd let it, I Likely wouldn't have been able to quit. When I see people now who are trying to quit and seem to be bothered by those smoking around them, I can usually tell they're not going to make it.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
23. Yep, there's no way this sick in the morning thing could be jet lag or something
Edited on Fri Jun-08-07 10:47 AM by Bucky
Occam's razor, people. We use it on the Creationists, so we need to use it on ourselves.
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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #23
37. I'll bet he's pregnant.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. Sorry, but Laura doesn't have the balls
Halliburton has them.
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
25. this used to happen to my dad...in OK its called the 3.2 flu (low proof beer state)
When I was a kid, we'd take vacations and quite frequently have to leave early because dad got the "stomach flu". by the time I was 15 I had figured out it was because he was an alcoholic and his binges on our vacations would get the best of him. We can laugh about it now.
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partylessinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
26. Look at this photo - Bush is well into pouring and drinking the beer.
He knew he was outdoors in full view and yet he acts like he is unaware that he could be seen and photographed acting like a fool. He is acting like any guy at the corner bar who spends much of his life sitting on a stool and slugging them down.




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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. He and Paris Hilton both feel that they are above the law. At least
Paris doesn't have the death of thousands of people on her head.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. That photo shows it all. Also looks like he's making a joke to Merkel
as he pours the beer...about the beer that she finds kind of amusing. Wonder what's going through her head as she watches.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
36. It's VIRAL alright, once the German beer gets into your system
you need more and more to maintain normality. :toast: :toast:
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. For an alcoholic, one drink is too many and a thousand isn't enough.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #40
83. at least 200 beers would give you alcohol poisoning
1,000 would cause massive organ failure. that would be more than enough.
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #83
87. Massive organ failure would tend to slow down a person's drinking, I bet.....even for me......
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VTMechEngr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. Ein Augustiner bitte
Or a Weinstephaner.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Augustiner ist ausgezeichnet!
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Bavarian beers rule!
Edited on Fri Jun-08-07 01:24 PM by 48percenter
I prefer Ayinger, Hacker-Pschorr and Paulaner. Prost!

:toast:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Hell fucking yeah, and I wish more people would recognize this
It is a shame that you can find guiness in almost every bar on tap, but that Augustiner Edelstoff is sorely lacking!
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #49
64. I hate Guiness, to me it tastes like soy sauce
blech!!!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. Try this instead
Edited on Sat Jun-09-07 12:14 AM by JVS

You have good taste! I'd gladly drink beer with you anytime.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. I can make out Oktoberfest, what's the rest?
I am so lucky to live in Bavaria. :) :toast:

It's another nice day here, so off to another Biergarten. Last night we went to a very small hotel Biergarten on Lake Starnberg, place was almost empty because it's a holiday weekend and all the Germans escaped from the city. I can't tell you how serene it was to sit in the sunshine under the chestnut trees drinking a mas. It's light until almost 10pm now, so sitting in the Biergartens is especially nice. :hi:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. Paulaner Oktoberfest Maerzen
What city do you live in? I wish I were back in Bavaria.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
46. Okay, this may be heresy, but I'll give the Frat Boy a break
I.m feeling generous toward the misguided and the misguiders today.

The thought of non-alcoholic beer makes me sick.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
50. wouldn't he have had to talk about Africa, his favorite?
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DemSoccerMom Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
52. This is SO juvenile . . .
. . . but I just can't help myself.

Does anyone else find it sort of funny/ironic/absolutely piss-in-your-pants hilarious that the extremely right-wing, anti-gay Bush gets so much pleasure in something with a (penis) HEAD?

Yeah. See? I told you it was juvenile. *I* just find it sort of funny is all.

Now back to our regular scheduled programming . . .

BTW, my late father was an alcoholic, and for HIM, the O'Douls and other NA beers actually HINDERED his recovery more than HELPED it, IMO. But, as a PP stated, the help or hinder thing has a lot to do w/ one's physiology.
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jollyreaper2112 Donating Member (955 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
53. this should be a national scandal
It's one thing if the fucker denies he has a problem and continues to drink, it's another when he's finally admitted "I'm an alkie", runs on it like it's a character bonus that he quit, and now he's still drinking.

Dunno how people manage to get drunk on beer, though. Two's about all the more I can have before I'm full and I just barely get a buzz. Hard liquor makes me ill if I have too much. Wine is the only thing that gets me tipsy.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
59. They must have bullied the captioner into writing "non alcoholic"
Edited on Fri Jun-08-07 05:15 PM by Truth Hurts A Lot
LOL. But the writer turned it into a farce by saying "non alcoholic" BEER. Hello? LOL
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
62. I'm an Alcoholic!
I've been sober for 15 years and I still wouldn't touch Near Beer. The taste...it would set off a craving in a true alcoholic. I know some can successfully use it but MOST do not and I would NEVER chance it. Not ever.
Lee
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. And DimSon hasn't got nearly the fortitude that you have
I doubt whether this scoundrel has EVER given up the booze, we all should have known at the pretzel incident.

Congrats on your sobriety! :hi:
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #62
77. I wouldn't drink it, Ever.
I'm an alcoholic, too. Had my last drink 28 years ago, but I still wouldn't go near the stuff. Besides, it doesn't even taste like anything resembling beer.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-08-07 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
66. Yeah
and I'm drinking non-alcoholic vodka right now.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
68. LOL , do they really think people will believe this ?
:rofl:
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #68
75. It's sad, but I bet there are 29% that do.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
74. Christ, he's not even pretending to hide it anymore, is he?
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
78. Bu$h drank the LA beer in public; back at his suite he hit the mini-bar.
And got Absolut-ly shit-faced!


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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
79. He needs a substance abuse assessment today
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
81. Alcohol is a stomache irritant
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
85. "Now either Bush is pregnant..."
Oh please don't let that be true. We don't need any more of his offspring running around.

You never know though, Bush does not seem quite human. Is it possible that male demons could get pregnant?
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Boxerfan Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
86. Maybe Putin did us all a big favor...
With his magic fairy dust!!

But seriously as another ex-drunk, sober 14 years.
NO near beer-hell I can't even have "bitters" in my Ginger ale without having a reaction. Did that once at a retaraunt-never again. Even a trace of alchohal is too much for a alchoholic.
No AA for me iether BTW..Not my cup-o-tea.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
92. Airag, Mongolian Fire-Water (fermented mare's milk) and Bush
In 2005, George W. Bush visited Mongolia, becoming the first U.S. president to do so, "and probably the first to drink fermented mare's milk in a felt tent guarded by the latter-day Golden Horde and a herd of camels and yaks", according to the Washington Post.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
94. Yep, I've had a few of those "morning illnesses"..
the phone call must have gone something like this:

"Hello, this is Laura Bush, I'm sorry but George woke up with a little stomach bug this morning and won't make it to the meeting today..he'll see you all tomorrow"...meanwhile the Chimp is praising the porcelain God in the other room.

It would be humorous, but he's supposedly the leader of the free world. Unfuckingbelievable.

By the by, I don't think alcoholics are supposed to even be drinking non-alcoholic beer. The recovering ones that I know don't.
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bamacrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
96. RIGHT
Who the hell drinks non-alcoholic beer? In Germany especially, I doubt there is such a thing over there. That is a bad excuse. "Morning illness" either hes pregnant or hungover.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
99. What was he drinking back in his room, is the question. This one whet his whistle.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-09-07 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
101. Bottle Identified
Edited on Sat Jun-09-07 10:29 PM by jberryhill






Buckler.

Oh... found a better pic....



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