Army won't leave her son alone (anyone have advice???)

[hadrons]

I saw this on the NY rants & raves on craigslist.com ... does anyone have any advice to help them. I think the Army can't do anything because the son didn't sign the final papers, but the recuirters are pressuring and bullying them into committing.

read on:


Reply to: [e-mail]
Date: 2007-06-11, 9:16PM EDT


I hope someone can help me with this.....

My son was thinking of joining the Army and even went through with the physical, testing,etc. but has yet to sign the final papers to join (he would sign these on the day he was to ship out). He was told that he could still change his mind if he decided not to join.

He has decided to go to college instead. He has been accepted to college, gotten financial aid, etc.

Now the Army is giving him a hard time and the run around about not joining. Besides all the BS they have been giving us, they are saying that he has to sign papers to 'sign out' of the Army, yet are making it impossible for us to do so.
What I want to know is.....

does anyone know what the proper procedure is if you decide not to join the Army and want to 'sign out'? Does he even need to sign something? Can he just send a certified letter or something similar?

This is a serious matter, please save the hate.

You can e mail me directly because I need info ASAP & Thanks for the help in advance!

[sakabatou]

1. Say he's on Ritalin?

[razors edge]

2. Tell them your gay,

Smoke some chronic, just get of the bus Gus, and get yourself free.

[rocktivity]

3. If he's signed NOTHING AT ALL, they can't touch him.

He has to sign papers in order to sign out??? If he falls for THAT line, he's not smart enough for either the military OR college! And if I didn't know this was upsetting someone, I'd be laughing. WHEN does he get to "sign out"--three tours in Iraq from now, provided he's not stop-lossed?

:headbang:
rocknation

[shance]

5. Well, apparently they are touching him through harassment and intimidation.

n/t

[GA_ArmyVet]

4. Serious reply for a serious question

I am in the army, and have been for almost 20 years..

First did he sign any papers with the recruiters?

If he did, take a copy to a lawyer and have it reviewed.

If he signed, but has not sworn in, he may still be able to get out.

If he has not signed anything, he is not in and does not have to sign anything to get out, just ignore them.

If he signed up and was sworn in, then you may have an issue, but for the most part the army does not want people who don't want to be in. But they will try very hard to keep you from getting out. Hell they are pressuring me to keep me from retiring at 20 yrs and 3 wars with multiple combat tours...but I digress. Bottom line, if he did not sign, he ain't in. If he did sign, and does not want to go, see a lawyer and check out your options.

[uppityperson]

6. And don't sign anything else they send, even "signing out" until getting it checked.

[riderinthestorm]

11. Welcome to DU! Glad to have active duty folk here!

:patriot:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

12. Welcome to DU!

And thanks for the help. :hi:

[Qanisqineq]

15. Welcome to DU!

My husband has been in the army 12 years and wants out when this contract is over. They are constantly harrassing him about staying in longer. :silly:

[newyawker99]

27. Hi GA_ArmyVet!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[bperci108]

7. My guess is that they want to try to intimidate him one last time face to face.

If he hasn't taken the oath, he isn't Uncle Sugar's property, period.

You might try to find an attorney from an anti-war/pro-civil rights group, (depending where you live) to give your problem a listen.

I wouldn't go within ten miles of any recruiters wanting him to "sign out" (whatever the hell that means) without an attorney in tow to read the documents they want signed carefully to insure against any shenanigans. I understand most, if not all, recruiters are resorting to any means necessary, including much illegal activity to fill the quotas for Duhbya's Death Machine.

Personally I'd just tell them to go fuck themselves in no uncertain terms (if you'll pardon the vulgarity), but that's me; a forty-something pinko curmudgeon with a very bad attitude not an idealistic and innocent kid just out of HS.

Best wishes your way to work this out. :hug:


(I know the OP wasn't the one with the dilemma, but perhaps you can forward it to the proper recipient.)

[GA_ArmyVet]

10. Pretty much

what I told them about not wanting me to retire, and I am not a "pinko" but the rest of your desscription fits me pretty well, tired of playing games (deadly ones at that) and ready to move to a new life without all of the "thrills" of life in the army.

[originalpckelly]

13. Thank you for your service.

And even though I'm not the concerned party, thank you for caring enough to help them out! :patriot:

[Turbineguy]

8. They were after my Daughter

My Son had already joined the Marine Corps.

I talked to my Daughter to get her views. After she told me what they were, I explained to the Recruiter that my Son was already in the Marines and my Daughter was not interested in joining the Army. They never called again.

You don't have to get cute or play games. Just give them the facts.

[Cha]

9. THanks for bringing this

over here on DU, hadrons. This is serious.. I see we already have some good advice from someone who is in the military.

Recommended~

[TacticalPeek]

14. Sounds like he's not really all the way in yet, and could be like Delayed Entry.

Delayed-Entry Program

Today, nearly all military recruits sign a delayed-entry contract. By
signing this, recruits promise to report on a specific date (up to a year)
in the future, at which time one's term of active-service begins.

The military uses the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) for two reasons: First,
it helps the armed forces plan their training activities and efficiently
distribute new trainees to available training billets. Second, recruiters
believe if a young person doesn't have to enter the military immediately
after enlisting, it will reduce sales resistance. DEP is often particularly
attractive to high school seniors who are unsure about what to do after
graduation. A lot can happen in a year, and many young people change their
minds about what they want to do with their lives.

An enlistee in the DEP is formally attached to the Individual Ready Reserve
(IRR), an administrative limbo shared with veterans who have recently been
discharged from active duty. Unlike recent veterans, however, DEP enlistees
cannot be forced onto active duty by military recruiting commands (USAREC
Reg. 601-56) -- despite misleading pressures exerted by many recruiters
(Ensign 2004, pp. 28-29).

Although recruiters often suggest that backing-out of one's DEP contract is
illegal or impossible, the military presently releases all DEP recruits who
request separation. Recruits may cancel their contract by sending a letter
requesting separation to their local recruiting command, the address for
which can be found in one's local phone book under US Government.

The military's list of acceptable reasons include: conscientious objection
(a belief that it is wrong to participate in war); pursuit of higher
education or vocational training; civilian job opportunity; erroneous
enlistment or recruiting error; failure to graduate high school; family
issues (marriage, children, hardship or dependency); homosexual conduct;
medical or psychological issues; personal problems; failure to report for
active duty, and a catch-all of other. Quite simply, anything will do
(USAREC Reg. 601-56, ì3-1).

http://www.militaryfreeschools.org/PDF/Honesty%20in%20Recruitment%20Newsletter.pdf

[TahitiNut]

20. The Delayed Enlistment/Entry Program (DEP) ...

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/dep.htm
http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/DEP/index.htm
http://www.us-army-info.com/pages/dep.html

http://www.objector.org/girights/delayed-enlistment-program.html

[GA_ArmyVet]

16. Thanks for the welcome

and glad to help where I can. Please don't misunderstand me, the Army has been a good life for me mostly, but it is very tiring to do 20, and we are very understrength for the demands that we have placed on us. This goes back to the first drawdown in 1991 though. Cut too many, too quick, and no reduction in the amount of missions. Been tough. For that great goat rope, I blame all politicians, dem/repug/indies/ for the political expediency and lack of foresight in cutting army strength from one mil plus to current levels. For the current issues, well..I am prevented by law from saying anything derogatory about presidents/congress people/other elected officials so I will do as my mother always taught, if you cant say something nice, say nothing at all.

(NOTE HUGE SILENCE HERE)

[MichaelHarris]

17. restraining order

works every time.

[Aviation Pro]

18. Call Recruiting Command and complain about harassment....

...to the most senior officer you can find.

[Decruiter]

19. Very forcefully answer the phone and say DO NOT CALL AGAIN!

All it takes, oh yeah, go on with...

If you call again, after I have asked you not to I will make a formal complaint, then I'm getting a lawyer.

[RiDuvessa]

21. I agree with the poster up thread.

Get online and find out who is the regional command for your recruiting area. Then give them a call and file a harassment complaint. That should fix the problem.

[wildbilln864]

22. No signature = no commitment!

Can you not sue them to make them leave him alone? :shrug:

[Breeze54]

23. Getting out of the Delayed Enlistment Program is easy. - LINKS!

Signed Up For the Military?




If You Change Your Mind...

You don't have to go!

Getting out of the Delayed Enlistment Program is easy.

http://www.objector.org/girights/delayed-enlistment-program.html

http://www.objector.org/espanol/girights/DEP_esp.html">en español


Getting Out of the Delayed Enlistment Program


* What is the Delayed Enlistment Program?

* Having second thoughts about joining the military?

* How does someone get out of the Delayed Enlistment Program?

* What are the consequences if I do not go to MEPS on my ship date?

* Will I be harassed?

* What can I do if I'm harassed by a recruiter?

* Should I write a letter? (pros and cons)

* How do I Contact the GI Rights Hotline for help?

http://www.objector.org/articles/99/gerard.html">Read about Gerard's story of getting out of the Delayed Entry Program,
then tell us your story about getting out of the Delayed Enlistment Program.

* Sample Letter Requesting Release

* This fact sheet is also available as a 14 kb adobe acrobat file.

* This fact sheet is excerpted from Helping Out:
A Guide to Military Discharges, Chapter 4: The Delayed Enlistment Program.



What is the Delayed Enlistment Program?

Most people who enlist are signed up into the Delayed Enlistment Program (DEP), also called
the Delayed Entry Program, for up to a year before they report for active duty training.

Having second thoughts about joining the military?

The DEP is pushed hard by recruiters to high school seniors who are unsure what to do after
graduation. A lot can happen in a year, and many people change their minds about what they
want to do with their lives. Also, more and more people are realizing that recruiters
misrepresent military life and lie to them. The promises made by recruiters about money
for college and job skills are not really what the military is about, and many realize they
don't want to go to war for a cause they may be opposed to, have questions about, or feel
is not really their concern.

Others have talked to people who have been to Iraq, and who may have been wounded or traumatized
by their participation in the war. Still others are concerned about the open-ended nature of
military enlistment, and have heard of soldiers being Stop-Lossed beyond the time they were
supposed to get out. In the case of Sgt. Emiliano Santiago, a federal Circuit Court in April,
2005 upheld the government's right to hold him until the year 2031, even though Santiago had
already finished his eight-year commitment!

For whatever reasons, many people who have enlisted through the DEP change their minds before
their ship date. They have the right to do this and do not have to go!


How does someone get out of the Delayed Enlistment Program?

Fundamentally, the way to get out of the DEP is NOT TO GO, not to report on your ship date.
Some people simply do not go; others choose to write a letter stating their decision not to go.
In either case, the results are the same: you do not have to go to MEPS on the ship date.


What are the consequences if I do not go to MEPS on my ship date?

There are no consequences and no records as a result of withdrawing from the DEP that
currently have any effect on things like employment or your legal record.
This is the case for non-citizens as well as citizens.

Withdrawing from the DEP has no effect on future employment. You don't have to write on
any employment application that you have withdrawn from the DEP, and there is no question
on employment forms that pertains to that issue.

Withdrawing from the DEP may affect your ability to enter the military at a later time.
On the other hand, with the military desperate for ground troops, and Army recruitment
numbers way down, it's hard to believe the Army wouldn't take a qualified person who at
an earlier time had withdrawn from the DEP.

Will I be harassed?

The Army Recruiting regulations state that recruiters will not threaten, coerce, manipulate,
or intimidate DEP members, nor may they obstruct separation requests. (USAREC Reg 601-56, 3-1c).
The Navy Regulations state, threatening DEP member with possible disciplinary actions for failing
to enlist or coercing DEP members to fulfill their contractual obligations is inconsistent
with the concept of the all-volunteer force (COMNAVCRUITCOMIST 1130.8F, 6A-6, Note 1). The Marines
don't have this clear language prohibiting harassment, but do make it clear that the individual
can leave the DEP. Their Recruiting Regulations, under Desire for Release or Intent Not to Report
state, If the individual insists on being released from the enlistment, the individual will be
discharged . (MCO P1100.72C, 4301, 3d(2)).


Still, we hear every day of recruiters harassing people who have decided not to join the military.
Recruiters often cross the line from reselling to harassing, and they have become increasingly
aggressive. On the GI Rights Hotline, we have heard stories of recruiters coming to people's homes,
calling their parents, going to their workplaces, and even trying to kidnap them.

The recruiter may tell you that you have to go, that you have signed a contract, and things like
You'll go to jail for five years; you'll get a dishonorable discharge, you'll never get a job.
Our favorite is Just go to boot camp, and if you don't like it, you can get out.

None of these things is true.

In particular, once you go to boot camp it is much harder to get out!


What can I do if I'm harassed by a recruiter?

What is important to realize is that you hold the cards! It may be hard to feel like you
have the power over your life when you're dealing with these well-financed, slick, uniformed
recruiters, but you do! What they rely on is pretend-friendliness, an air of authority,
bluff, intimidation and outright lies. You can enlist the support of your family, friends,
and co-workers so that you do not have to speak to the recruiter. You can write a letter
stating that you want no further contact, and citing one of the regulations above that forbids
them from harassing you. You can screen your calls so that you do not accept any calls from
the recruiter. A letter or call from a lawyer may stop the harassment. Some people choose not
to be at home around the date they had planned to ship so that they avoid potential contact.

More.................


Feel free to contact the GI Rights Hotline [phone], [e-mail])
if you have any questions or if you need assistance with harassment by a recruiter.

E-mail sent........ ;)

[fighttheevilempire]

24. "sure, what time can me, my son, and our lawyer meet you?"

That line should stop them dead in their tracks. This is in all likelihood a tactic to try to get him to 'sign in' more than sign out.

[formercia]

25. Once they have your signature

it's a binding contract. Tell them to stick it.

[Ganja Ninja]

26. Call your senator and congress person.

Don't answer the phone. Put you phone on an answering machine and record every statement they make. Save all the correspondence they have/will send you. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING! DO NOT RESPOND TO ANYTHING! If he's already enlisted then he's signed all the papers he needs to sign. If he hasn't signed enough papers already then he's not obligated.

[Orsino]

28. Ask "Is he on orders?"

When they grudgingly admit that no, he isn't, demand a call-back from their unit commander and only the unit commander.