Sextuplets thanks to fertility treatments

[matcom]

thoughts?

[uberllama42]

1. Personally I think it is better to adopt in a situation like that

given the risks. Then again, I don't know what it's like to desperately want to give birth to your own biological children. Perhaps the perspective of someone who takes these treatments is much different than mine.

[matcom]

2. what I find interesting

the couple profiled just now on the Today Show couldn't have kids so they sought fertility treatments. Turns out they are quite religious.

my sister couldn't get pregnant and sought fertility treatment. thankfully, she only had one, not six. my sister is deeply religious.

I would think that such a strong and open belief in a higher being would cause one to 'go with what god delt you'. Nope. These deeply religious people seem to seek science to 'outdue' what they were given.

I find it interesting.

[JoDog]

6. Many religious people

are more than happy to praise the Lord when they get what they want, and chalk it up to God's will and favor. But if they don't get what they want, or an accident happens, rather than placing that on God's will too, they go to heathen science or a lawsuit. Then they go back to praising God when the IVF babies come or when they get a settlement. Appears they only accept God's will when it matches their own. To me, that is a sign of an unhealthy ego and a shallow, insignificant faith. They shout it in the pews on Sunday, but don't feel it in their hearts and let it guide their actions on Wednesday.

Remember the McCoy septuplets? That religious couple already had a biological child but decided they wanted more. Instead of accepting that maybe their god only wanted them to have one child, they went to a fertility specialist. Then on every talk show they thanked god for their blessings. I thought they should have spent more time thanking their doctors and the scientific community instead.

[hang a left]

31. Ya know,

I don't fault people that want to have biological children. I guess I am lucky and was able to spawn a couple of them without all of the cost. I gotta tell ya though, I had the first one and divorced, was single for years and seriously contemplated AS. Just cuz I loved my little guy so very much, I wanted just ONE more.

Having said all of that

I remember recently listening in on one of them HD Heathens on a visit to see my Grams. This guy was telling his viewers that if they didn't receive answers to their prayers, it was because they were praying for the wrong thing.

I guess, as some say, there is an ass for every seat.

[Beaverhausen]

33. Remember all the media attention? All the donations they received?

They didn't have to pay the hospital and the medical staff- the birth and subsequent care of the infants was well over a million dollars.

Well, there was a black couple in Washington DC who had setuplets naturally the same week- but got virtually no media attention and very little in the way of donations.

The McCoys of course are nice white christian folks, so they deserve all these freebies. :eyes:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

8. Edited

I don't want to be insensitive, but agree that "God's will" is usually conveniently twisted to fit the agendas of those who proclaim its impact on their lives.


And, having five or six babies at once puts a tremendous strain on the health of the woman and the babies. Not to mention a huge cost to our strained health care system, such as it is.
MKJ

[Iris]

15. I don't think you're being insensitive by stating what's right before our eyes.

Namely, that people presume to know God's will and it usually involves people getting to do exactly what they want to do (or ignoring exactly what they want to ignore).

[MistressOverdone]

30. "It's God's will"

is a very human way to attempt to explain the unexplainable, I do believe.

And there is no doubt it is a strain and high risk. But I do believe that to get into any sorts of limitations on pregancy (like you can't have a baby before 14 or some such thing) would be a very slippery slope and have all sorts of ramifications.

I guess it comes down to good sense. Some have it, some don't and it will always be that way.

[Iris]

14. yeah. I'm pro-choice and would never presume when life starts and all that

but if there is possibly a soul involved in an embryo - well, I don't want to be involved with manipulating all that. The idea of souls trapped in frozen embryos (if all embryos are not implanted and given a 'fair' chance) is too much for me to stomach.

[Virginia Dare]

23. Agreed, six babies conceived through IVF is not God's will..

and it is disingenuous and self-serving of these people to believe that it is. I feel the same about the Cheney's proclaiming Mary's baby as a gift from God.

I also really wish that the media would stop giving these people a platform.

[IdaBriggs]

24. You must be joking.

A belief in a higher power does not protect one from "bad things happening," but can help one to cope with them.

Infertility is one of the oldest problems human beings face, and the pain of it is referenced multiple times in one of the oldest written works we have -- the bible.

Many infertility patients, myself included, have a strong belief in a higher power, along with a common sense belief that a) God helps them that help themselves, and b) God gave human beings brains for a reason -- to solve problems. Infertility is a problem, and becoming a parent is a perfectly normal and natural desire. (This is not to say it is a choice everyone wants to make, and that is okay, too.)

Want to watch a good rant? Say something nice about Reagan. That SOB let his Religion interfere with MY MEDICINE -- and I don't appreciate him. Period.

Now, there are people who are all about "accepting bad things" like cancer, heart disease, infertility, and such, but those folks usually are talking about OTHER PEOPLE accepting them. The rest of us sane people want these things CURABLE so that people have a CHOICE about the problems they deal with. For example, having danced the infertility dance, I am now dealing with the problems that come with a lack of sleep due to fifteen and a half week old twins (with my darling daughter being nocturnal!).

Like I said, life happens to everyone; for some people, faith helps to cope with it. Bad things will always happen in life, and that's just the way it is. Refusing to believe in rain, for example, will not make it stop falling, but going inside can stop one from getting wet. At the same time, rainstorms can be lovely, and singing in them quite nice. (Take the metaphor in any direction you want -- did I mention I'm sleep deprived?) :)

Best,
Ida Briggs
Mom to Brianna & Cameron
15-1/2 weeks old -- the joys of my life, and worth every miserable moment of the eight years waiting/working for them

[Bzzzz]

3. IMO...

humans are not suppose to have litters. Multiple pregnancies are bad for both mothers and babies. The mothers are more likely to suffer from complications such as high blood pressure, haemorrhages and pre-eclampsia. The babies are more likely to be premature, to have birth defects and neurological problems such as cerebral palsy, and to have a low birthweight, which brings health risks in the short and long term.

[Skidmore]

4. You just can't have too much fertility.

[leftchick]

5. I used fertility treatments for both of my IVF pregnancies

No responsible Reproductive Endocrinologist would transfer more than five embryos at once. Also I was fully aware of the risks of multiples and would have had the embryos reduced if there were more than two that implanted.

I suspect when there are this many babies it was probably from an Intra-uterine insemination (IUI). That is where the woman is ready to ovulate and her ovaries are bursting with many eggs that have been artificially stimulated from a lot of hormones. Her husband or donor's sperm is inserted into her uterus via a catheter and she crosses her fingers. That one is a real crap shoot as far as how many get fertilized. Again if there are many eggs ready to pop it would be better to harvest them and fertilize them individually to avoid ae multiple pregnany. But then an IUI costs a fraction of an IVF.

[MistressOverdone]

7. It is not what I would personally choose

for myself, but if you have the energy and the money...well, go for it, I guess. I can understand people with religious problems regarding eliminating some of the babies-to-be.

I saw the dad on the Today show this AM. He looked kind of glassy-eyed. Evidently the mom had heart failure yesterday because she didn't lose enough blood after the birth.

My question is who would you EVER get any sleep with six infants?

[WildClarySage]

11. Sleep??? with 6??? I have one toddler and sleep

is something I vaguely remember doing. :crazy:

[MistressOverdone]

21. They will have to have help

I guess, and I hope they have willing and able grandparents, or they are going to have to pay somebody. I have read a few stories about families with big multiples births and evidently the neighborly help fades rather quickly.

I guess there is a reason why nature gives us one, usually. And two once in a while!

[WildClarySage]

9. As a pro-choicer, I have to say

that people are entitled to do stupid things with their bodies, including trying to bring a bunch of kids into the world all at once, even though that's not what I would choose for myself. I think a more responsible dr would have prevented such a conception if at all possible, but of course, reproduction is never an exact science and the human body is surprising, and once in a while, an extraordinary pregnancy like that just happens. I would hope the doctor provided them with real information about the risks of continuing to carry all the fetuses.

I don't appreciate someone second-guessing my reproductive choices (as has happened here before) so I guess I'd have to say that sextuplets, septuplets, octuplets or any other -uptlets are none of my business unless I'm their mother.

Then somebody hook me up with a steady supply of valium, for my nerves and Prozac for that insanity that got me that many kids at once. Better yet, just shoot me.

[murielm99]

16. Exactly.

Whenever that happens, I remind myself that giving birth to a litter is also choice.

My cousin and his wife went to a fertility clinic when she could not conceive. I don't know what method they used. She had FOUR. All four are healthy.

The thing is, they had one child. He is my cousin's boy by a previous marriage. He is developmentally delayed and has a number of learning problems. But he is a sweetheart. (My cousin's first wife could not deal with the situation. She abandoned him and the baby).

These four are now four years old. And voila! She is pregnant, this time the old fashioned way.

One of my other cousins is an obstetrician. She feels the same way I do about having litters. And she has seen much more than I. But it is still a choice.

[MistressOverdone]

29. I'm a teacher

so I can see dealing with, say, three-year olds in groups of five or six. I can see the advantages, actually. But oh my God, infancy. I worked in a day care once in the baby section and when they all got going at once...wow.

[SoCalDem]

10. It needs to be ILLEGAL to implant more than 3 embryos..

More than 3 presents HUGE problems, and the likelihood of compromised babies:(

[WildClarySage]

13. ILLEGAL???

I realize it's usually a bad idea, but seems to me that laws regarding what goes on in my utereus is a very bad idea.

[Iris]

17. I see your point about making laws like that.

But also think there should be some kind of regulation - see Posts #5 & 7 above.

[SoCalDem]

19. Don't doctors have rules?? Why should they not have regulations

about endangering their patient's lives? Am I missing something here.. I guess if a doctor implants 20 embryos it would be ok?? :eyes:

[leftchick]

35. it is a transfer and not an implant

that is what happens if they take. I had five embryos transferred for my last IVF and one implanted. I was counseled on multiples and the option of reduction if I chose to not carry more than two. Any reputable Reproductive Endocrinologist would never transfer more than five and would always provide counseling of options if multiples are conceived.

The fact is, with IVF the chances of more than two or three implanting are not that great. I believe most of these high number multiples are conceived in another less expensive treatment called IUI as I stated in my post above.

[WildClarySage]

40. Having rules and making laws against something are two different things

entirely. I never said doctors shouldn't be held to professional standards. I said making laws regarding reproductive rights is a bad idea, mainly because congresspersons are rarely medical experts, and those experts are the ones I want involved in my healthcare decisions.

[Iris]

12. Are you trying to tell us something, Matcom? n/t

[MindPilot]

18. It bugs me that we celebrate these multiple births.

These people are contributing to over population and they get all kinds of accolades for reproducing, but the couples who choose to limit their reproductive options are completely ignored.

[SoCalDem]

26. What bugs me is when these high-multiples occur, the parents sometimes

plead poverty and solicit for donations of diapers, food etc..

The cases where these high-multiples occur naturally (yes they do happen) are just SOL..
We had neighbors in Kansas who were so scared of another pregnancy, that they BOTH got "fixed"..

She had her first baby in 1976 ...1 boy...in 1978 she got pregnant and it was fraternal-twin (boys).. in 1980 she got pregnant again..identical triplet boys...and she said here was NO WAY she wanted to try one more time for a girl with those odds.. 6 boys under 5 were plenty :)

[erpowers]

20. Needed Vs. Not Needed

For me it is an issue of whether the treatments were needed or not needed. If the couple needed fertility treatments for the women to get pregnant then things are fine. However, if a couple just used fertility treatments to have seven kids just because they wanted to or they wanted the attention then I think that should not be done. However, I realize that is none of my business.

I have heard that people who have multiple babies at the same time automatically get government assitance. I think the government starts giving assistance at quadtrulets. If the government does give assistance maybe they should make some clause that money will not be given if fertility treatments were taken. I guess the government could make a clause that money will not be given out if fertility treatments were not needed.

[Heidi]

22. They're just as entitled to make their medical decisions without my input

as I am to make mine without their input. While I wouldn't want one child, let alone six, I think it's a very short jump from telling people they _can't_ have six kids to telling people they _must_ have six kids. I don't even want to start down that slippery slope.

[newportdadde]

25. As a father of twins and soon to be a father of 4 total kids under 4 I wouldn't recommend multiples.

Thats just my opinion. But when our twins were born our oldest son was 25 months. I'm going to be honest here.. that first year was the toughest of my life and the toughest of my marriage.

For awhile we weren't sure we would make it.. we had virtually no help as both sets of grandparents were are off doing their own thing. My wife was my hero during that time and still is.. she double breastfed to help us save the formula cost and got up with the twins at night so I would still be able to function to some degree at work.

Now we are excepting another in about 6 weeks.. whew... 3 1/2 year old, 17 month old twins and a newborn.. should be interesting.

Edit: Also for whatever reason there is a lot of dirty looks to anyone with a big family. Even if I'm dressed in my business clothes with my family we get looked at like we are a 'welfare case'.

[Longhorn]

27. You'll make it!

I had a similar situation -- identical twin girls when our oldest daughter was 2-1/2 and then a son when our twins were 2-1/2 -- so four kids in five years. We were lucky that they were mostly through with potty training before the next birth, though there were relapses. I breastfed and used clothed diapers so I remember a lot of nursing and laundry. :) Both sets of grandparents made it clear that they had already raised their children. (They wonder now why they aren't closer to their grandchildren! :eyes: )

We were 23 when the first was born and 28 when the last was born. Now we have four beautiful adult children who are themselves 23 to 28 years old and we couldn't feel more fortunate. Our twins both got married this spring to wonderful young men, an Aggie from Israel and a Longhorn who is Chinese-American, and live nearby. Both girls work in my husband's remodeling company. Our oldest daughter lives in Denver with a great guy from Iowa who makes her very happy. Our son is a Marine in Japan who should be coming back to the States this fall.

We got the snide comments and jokes when they were little but didn't care. Some of those people are just jealous. ;) There were lean times -- daycare for four made it impractical for me to work outside the home but I was glad because I wanted to be a stay-at-home mother. I started a career in teaching when they were preteens and I'm truly enjoying the empty nest -- empty except for five dogs!

Congratulations and good luck! :hi:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

28. Completely irresponsible, IMO.

Six fetuses all competing for a limited amount of space/nutrients. They are always premies who spend the first one to two months of their lives in a hospital because their lungs/digestive systems are not fully developed. And a good many of them have permanent medical issues from being a mass multiple.

This family clearly went the cheap route, pumped her full of hormones then shot her hubby's sperm in her -- not true IVF. This proceedure often results in the mass births we have seen so many of recently.

It's too bad that some folks baby and/or religious fetish is so overwhelming that they are unable to think clearly about the impact of mass multiples on the babies themselves and the planet.

[moc]

43. As someone who had this procedure, let me say that it shouldn't

result in HOMs if it's implemented appropriately. See my post below for details.

Sadly, one of the factors inhibiting use of IVF in favor of inj/IUI is cost. If I'd still lived in Maryland when we were trying to conceive #2, IVF would have been covered by insurance. However, we had moved to Texas, and infertility treatment was not mandated as it was in Md. Although my doctor recommended IVF, the cost was prohibitive (~$10-15k per cycle with a low probability of success given my age). (It was also difficult for me to justify the cost given we did have a child.) As it was, even with importing drugs from overseas (same drug; one fourth the cost of getting them in the U.S.), each cycle cost us $2500-$3000.

There should also be some regulation of infertility providers so not any MD can dabble in it without appropriate training.

[Beaverhausen]

32. You don't deserve a bunch of media attention and donations of money and goods

If you choose to bring 6 kids into this world, you better be able to afford to pay for them.

Why people think it's so amazing when couples have six kids (through fertility treatments) that they donate vans, houses and money is beyond me.

[annabanana]

34. I'm a big "choice" person... And it's my choice to feel that this is a litter.

[Firespirit]

36. Not what I'd do... but if that's what they wanted, fine.

I haven't decided whether I want to have kids at all, but if I did, it wouldn't be more than one or AT MOST two. I wouldn't want to be judged for choosing not to have kids, or choosing to have only one or two, so it'd be hypocritical for me to judge these people.

The only thing about this that bothers me, peripherally related, is that with many insurance plans, certain infertility treatments are covered, but contraception is not.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. An abomination unto the Lord.

I saw cull three or four of them.

[gollygee]

38. I wouldn't take on that risk, but it's up to the mother what risk she's willing to take

I would personally opt for selective reduction in that case. But choice is about her being able to do what she thinks is best for her.

[rebecca_herman]

39. I find it rather sad

I personally would not choose to continue a pregnancy with 6 and would try to reduce as I think the risks are too high. While I respect that it is the woman's personal choice what to do I can't help but feel sorry for the children when these pregnancies result in very sick babies who are born extremely early and suffer long hospital stays, many surgeries, etc, and sometimes dying anyway/ There was another set of sextuplets born this week at just under 23 weeks into the pregnancy, they are being treated in the hospital in an attempt to save them but I have never heard of a baby that survived such an early birth... why are they tormenting the poor little creatures?

[The Straight Story]

41. Pretend you are Amish, buy a farm, put em to work early and make money off of em :)

Kids don't have to cost money, they can make it too! Get em out there raising a barn or something.

:rofl:

[moc]

42. These situations piss me off (m)

I had infertility treatment for both of my pregnancies. My second one was injectible/IUI. That means I had ovulation induction (intramuscular injections), trigger of ovulation and then intrauterine insemination.

From what I've read, this sextuplet pregnancy resulted from IUI not IVF, so it's important to keep the particulars straight. Although it's the same drugs injected for both, IVF cycles typically use higher doses as all eggs are retrieved, fertilized externally, allowed to develop until either embryo or blastocyst stage and then transfered back. As such, IVF is more controllable these days. Although "back in the day" it was relatively common to transfer 5-6+ embies, that's much less common today. Sometimes they'll do it if some of the embies are very low quality, but that's risky because some of the lowest quality can "take".

Inj/IUI is much more of a crap shoot. While getting injections, you have sonos every day or two to monitor the growth of follicles and determine when they're "ripe" and ready for trigger. What's imperative is that the doctor discuss issues of higher order multiples and selective reduction BEFORE the woman undergoes injections. If she's opposed to selective reduction, then it is immoral/irresponsible/unethical to proceed with the cycle if she develops more than 3 follies. When we were cycling, it was my dh who had a problem with SR. "No Fetal Reduction" was written in huge black letters across my flow sheets. If I'd developed more than 3 follies, I would have been canceled. If canceled, I had to promise that dh and I would stay far away from one another and not try to conceive the old fashioned way.

When higher order multiples like this occur, it's a failure. Either (1) the doctor never discussed HOM/SR issues with the patient until it was too late (more common than you'd think); or (2) the doctor wasn't monitoring the patient appropriately and didn't know there were so many follies (also not uncommon as many MDs "dabble" in infertility treatment and don't necessarily monitor appropriately); or (3) the couple was opposed to SR and this was known before cycling; the cycle was canceled but they "did the deed" anyway.

Regardless, someone screwed up and was irresponsible. The ones who suffer are the babies as the risks of these HOM births is so great.

I also think it gives many the misperception that all of those of us who have undergone infertility treatment give birth to litters.