Is Libby a victim?

[Onlooker]

During the Clinton scandal, Judge Lamberth tormented the White House (and Democrats) by constantly siding with the likes of right-wingers and groups like Judicial Watch. The whole process dragged countless Clinton appointees before various investigators and cost them a fortune in legal fees. They were victims in scandal designed to net Bill Clinton. Libby, who most of us had never heard of and probably know very little about, was a top level flunky. But, it wasn't him we wanted. It was Cheney or Bush, the people who are truly responsible. While I don't have any sympathy for Libby, I don't see what's going on as anything more than a consolation prize that might sooth our general disgust with the Bush administration. Libby is the sort of fish that should be thrown back into the sea. Public disgrace is enough of a punishment for the likes of him.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. .

:popcorn:





(Yes! I finally used this damn smilie!)

[MNDemNY]

2. So, if your a "top level flunky" you don't belong

in the system with us low level sorts? Lock him up. I wish.

[Solly Mack]

3. I need more coffee

brb

[Horse with no Name]

8. I just made fresh popcorn...

:popcorn:

[Solly Mack]

11. Back...

In answer to the OP. Fuck NO



Coffee, Horse with no Name?

[Horse with no Name]

13. Oh that looks yummy Solly

I hope it's not decaf--this thread could be an all-nighter.;)

[Solly Mack]

Never! (decaf)

:)

lolol

[TahitiNut]

22. I start every day with a quad mocha grande. Yum.

:thumbsup: :toast:

[Solly Mack]

24. A day without good coffee just isn't a day

[TahitiNut]

28. Coffee, chocolate, and peaNUT butter ... the essential food groups

Alone or in pairs ... always good. :silly:

[Horse with no Name]

30. You have that wrong Mister

The THREE essential food groups--White Chocolate, Milk Chocolate, and Dark Chocolate.:evilgrin:

[Solly Mack]

33. 3 of my favorites!

[LaurenG]

4. He's a victim of his lack of character and integrity

he chose to accept the position that was offered to him and he chose to lie. He should pay the consequences.

[Zensea]

5. Excellent distillation

of the current, DC insider,enabler, rightwing talking points.

[Onlooker]

10. As a rule, I don't favor prison for nonviolent criminals

but perhaps your form of liberalism supports that right-wing concept.

[MNDemNY]

12. Fine, I'd be OK with him picking up litter on the highway.

[tyedyeto]

32. Why?

He broke fundamental laws about perjury. Lying to federal prosecutors. Obstruction of justice. All about a war that has seen 3500 deaths for our countrymen and women and the deaths of over 500.000 Iraqis.

The guy who had some pot, typically, never harmed anyone but Libby and his bosses decided to lie and obstruct justice, in which thousands have died.

Why should he get a 'pass' and pick up some trash when someone who is picked up for pot possesion or lesser crime serve a greater sentence in a more guarded facility?

[MNDemNY]

34. first of all

1. Pot should be legal
2. First time non-violent offenders should rarely if ever get any jail time.
3. #2 applies to everyone, not just the "elite"
4. Prisons should be used when needed to protect the public from violent offenders.
5. Fines should be adjusted according to a persons ability to pay.Ex. a fine of 1500 bucks could be a real punishment for me, but, say, Paris Hilton should pay a fine of 150,000 for the same offense.

[Horse with no Name]

16. You do know that people died when the cover was blown on Plame?

Do some research on Brewster Jennings. Scooter didn't do the deeds himself...but then again, neither did Charles Manson.

[endarkenment]

18. How many people in Plame's network died?

You don't know the answer to that and I don't either. This crime aided and abetted taking us into a fraudulent war. On that count I am pretty sure that the death toll is well into the 100,000s. I fail to see how this is a non-violent crime.

[Zensea]

20. His lying enables criminal homicide

He's an accessory at the very least both before and after the fact, thus not a non-violent criminal.
Do you favor prison for embezzlers?
They're "non-violent" also.

Did I say I was a liberal?

[Vincardog]

6. Libby chose to lie to the FBI. He Obstructed the investigation into who outed Valery.

This small fish story is BS the fish does not choose to be netted.
Scooter is where he is by choice. To get out of it he has only to tell the truth.

When Public disgrace become enough of a punishment for the likes
Dope smokers I might consider it to be just punishment for the likes
of him.

[theoldman]

7. Libby is the fall guy for Cheney.

What I do not understand is why the investigation had to stop with him. His lies impeded the investigation but it should not be a conclusion.

[H2O Man]

9. Respectfully disagree.

Anyone who was mildly aware of the role of the republicans in the Bush1 administration knew exactly who Libby was/is. He is in no sense a "flunky." Thus, your conclusion is in error.

[napi21]

14. Sure Libby is a smaller fish, BUT he was complicit in the crimes of the WH.

Then of course he was real dumb ass and LIED to protect the people HE THOUGHT were his friends.

He should pay the price for his lies, and MAYBE there will even be an impact on the people who are currently working in the WH too! I know if I worked there, I'd refuse to help with ANYTHING I felt was criminal...not only for ethical reasons, but it's obvious that you can't depend on this power group to come to your aid!

[endarkenment]

15. Uh, not unless a mob boss's Consigliere would be considered

small fish. Libby was Cheney's top advisor. You can stop right there.

[Jim__]

17. Is libby the sort of fish ...

that should get away with obstruction of justice and lying to the grand jury? If so, exactly what type of fish is that?

[Solly Mack]

21. fresh fish (prison fish)

new guy on the block

[Spazito]

19. It is interesting this seems to be cropping up more and more...

Libby broke the law and was found guilty, by a jury of his peers, of perjury and obstruction of justice, both felonies. Why would anyone even question whether he is a "victim" is beyond me.

Since when is a convicted felon a "victim"?

The issue of who should have been indicted along with Libby is a moot question when it relates to whether Libby should suffer the consequences of illegal actions, imo.

[TwilightGardener]

23. First of all, Libby's going to jail WON'T come anywhere close

to "soothing our general disgust with the Bush administration". And why should we ignore the rule of law to his favor because YOU deem him not a big enough "fish"? I think he's a mighty big fish, myself--but does it matter? Should we start releasing all the "little fish" in jails across the country? After all, they're not Timothy McVeigh or Ted Bundy. They might've just stolen a car, or embezzled, or preyed on the elderly with financial schemes. Let's only jail the BIG FISH, and everyone else can write mea-culpa essays on why they were wrong.

[GumboYaYa]

25. No, Scooter and his family have spent their lifetimes

benefitting from their ties to the corrupt Republicans. When they give back all the money they made off these crooks, denounce them publicly, and turn states evidence against Bush and Cheney he may be a victim then. For now, Scooter is still lying and obstructing justice.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. A "victim" like the driver of a getaway car at a bank robbery is a "victim".

[Catherine Vincent]

27. Libby lied to prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald.

You don't lie to the Fitz!

[VP505]

29. Libby is a victim

only in the sense that he was stupid enough to participate. Those are educated and sophisticated people, all involved including Libby knew full well what they were doing. Apparently the 6 years that Bu$hCo has gone without any accountability lead them all to believe that this would be no different.

[DemoTex]

31. No victims, just fucking volunteers (Christine Lavin).

Victim/Volunteer
© 1990 Christine Lavin

He thinks of himself as a victim of love
He's not - He's a volunteer
He has consistently fallen for all the wrong women
Year after year after year
And now he blames every woman who has ever kissed him
Told him that she loved him and later dismissed him
And now he thinks he's a walking victim
He's not - He's a volunteer

She thinks of herself as a victim of circumstance
When she's a volunteer
She has placed her life in the hands of every man
Fool enough to come near
And now she blames anyone who she thinks has used her
Emotionally, or mentally abused her
She's not a victim running from a persecutor
No - She's a volunteer

And he thinks of himself as a victim of fate
When he just volunteers
He has invested his money in well bred astrologers
Healers, Psychic Seers
And now he blames every tilted constellation
Or every negative vibration
He's not a victim of UFO infestation
He's a volunteer

Oh pick the numbers
Shake the sticks
Read the tea leaves
Light the wicks
Point the finger
Pass the buck
Blame it all on lady luck

Do you think of yourself as a victim?
Or do you volunteer?
Do you let somebody else call all of your shots?
Do you cower in the corner in fear?

Or do you follow because it is easy to do?
Do you fool with modern high tech voodoo?
Too bad if you're a victim or whatever you do?
Don't volunteer

Or do you follow because it is easy to do?
Do you fool with modern high tech voodoo?
Too bad if you're a victim but whatever you do
Don't volunteer
Why would ya volunteer?
Please don't volunteer!

[Missy Vixen]

35. Christine Lavin rocks!

I wonder if Scooter thinks he's a "Sensitive New Age Man", too. :woohoo:

Julie