Kerry On Hardball: "Iraq is worse than Vietnam"

[Hissyspit]

Gave various reasons including that "Iraq was a war of choice."

[scarletwoman]

1. "Iraq was a war of choice." -- So was Vietnam. (nt)

[Coexist]

2. Ron Christie.... ugh.

[Cameron27]

11. Ugh is right. He makes Buchanan sound

almost lucid.

[BootinUp]

12. Buchanan usually is lucid, but a lucid bigot

can be quite revolting.

The other guy Christie, is just a Rove bot.

[BootinUp]

3. but nam was fightin the commies!

probably Kerry needs to rethink that.

[fedupinBushcountry]

5. Full quote

Quote;
'Iraq is worse than Vietnam, and the reason it's worse is because came about as a war of choice, not the extension of a major ideological effort like the cold war, and I think that the deception and inadequacies of leadership have been far greater in the long run.'

[BootinUp]

6. Its a problematic statement

that he will have to explain over and over again. Doesn't ring true to the average bloke.

[politicasista]

22. How would you communicate to the "average bloke"?

Since you are a politician and have done more for the "average bloke"

[BootinUp]

23. Assuming I know what he meant

I would have said..."Iraq was a bigger mistake than Vietnam".

Enough of this...can't we all get along now?

O8)

[politicasista]

24. Well, it's better than saying nothing.

:hi:

[BootinUp]

25. same here.

:pals:

[ProSense]

7. He made perfect sense!

There is a history of past and current statements about Iraq and Vietnam here.

[BootinUp]

9. disagree. How many died in Nam, all told

it dwarfs the numbers in Iraq. The statement requires multiple qualifiers and too much explaining to "make sense".

[ProSense]

14. The rate of casualty in Iraq has surpassed Vietnam

Wounded to killed in Iraq out pacing Vietnam 6 to 1.

[BootinUp]

15. So thats another qualifier then.

Read my posts or leave me alone.

[ProSense]

18. Well, it proves his point. n/t

[fedupinBushcountry]

20. It does

But some people have blinders on and can't accept reality.

[Demobrat]

4. So did Tweety ask him

why he voted for it?

[Coexist]

8. thankfully, spittle-guy is on break

who is this man subbing for him? I kinda like him.

[politicasista]

10. Why don't you give it a rest?

I was hoping the guest would ask the question why "progressives" keep letting Bush and Rove get away with the "voting for the war" lie instead of reading the statements about the vote and people that have been against it from the start.

Bush he was going to invade Iraq without a vote period.

[Zomby Woof]

13. For someone who was there

That is a strange statement.

Horrible as over 3,500 casualties are (and untold thousands of civilian deaths), the U.S. lost 58,000 troops in Vietnam. Vietnam had more longevity (so far), and a draft to keep troop numbers sustainable.

Both were/are wars of ideology, the Cold War bolstering the former, and neoconservatism pushing the latter. Both undergirded by capitalism and its rapaciousness. The entire century-plus since the Spanish-American War has followed a similar pattern - American exceptionalism, greed, jingoism, and racism, all a very potent brew for endless wars and mindless bloodshed, lining pockets from United Fruit to Halliburton along the way.

[babylonsister]

16. His main point was that we started this one for no good reason. nt

[Zomby Woof]

19. I would say that about both

The one thing which is worse about Iraq is its long-term ripple effect. The 'blowback' will last decades, even centuries. To many in the middle east, this is yet another incarnation of the Crusades. Then there is the oil angle. The endless cycles of vengeance, and so on.

From a sociopolitical and economic standpoint, Iraq is proving it could be worse in the long run.

I would slightly amend what I said in my earlier post and say they are both very tragic and wasteful in very different ways, but for underlying reasons which are remarkably similar and not without precedent in American history. I could even go back as far as the Mexican War to make a few more points, but I think since we're mainly in agreement about Iraq, they're not needed.

[ProSense]

17. Why is it strange for someone who was there to say that?

Hagel has said Iraq is like Vietnam, and he was there.

There is a history of past and current statements about Iraq and Vietnam here.

[blm]

21. I think it is the longterm EFFECT it will have on the world is worse. Way worse.

Vietnam didn't spawn a whole movement against the US by the rest of the world.

Bush's policies reIraq under the guise of a War on Terror will be blowing back at this country for generations.

[Bravo Zulu]

26. I tend to agree with John Kerry