What is a Reagan Democrat?

[babylonsister]

I heard Pat Buchanan spewing a day or two ago and he mentioned that term. Can anyone enlighten me?

[PVnRT]

1. A moron

n/t

[L. Coyote]

34. No, an Oxymoran!

[cleofus1]

2. kind hearted people

who are easily conned...

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

3. Union Presidents, like Reagan was when he

WAS a Democrat?

[ThomWV]

4. An easily misled person is the only definition that covers the full spectrum of those idiots

My disgust with the Republican Party began with Iran/Contra and continues to this day.

[Captain Hilts]

8. That's harsh and unfair. Carter's fecklessness alienated a lot of people. nt

[Dhalgren]

19. Reaganites blame Carter the way Bushites blame Clinton...

[Captain Hilts]

22. I like him, but Carter was not an effective president. That was clear before Reagan came along. nt

[displacedtexan]

23. Could anyone have cleaned up the Nixon mess in 4 years?

Carter's only flaw was his belief that all (even Repukes) people are inherently good.

[Captain Hilts]

32. Yes, that IS a flaw in a leader. That was clear. He seemed feckless. nt

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

52. How would you characterize those who were intent upon "creating" failure during his years,...

,...in office?

I suppose I'd rather "feckless" (although, in my opinion, that's an inappropriate characterization) over "EVIL".

What would you have done differently that would keep you from appearing "feckless", had you been in his shoes, at that time?

[athebea]

71. Did you see the 1979 World Series ?

That was when the Pittsburgh Pirates beat the Baltimore Orioles.

After the final game, during the after game interviews, Jimmy Carter went down to the locker room to congratulate the Pirate coach. The announcer spent a few minutes with Carter, who was standing in the center of the room. Then he went over to the leftmost end of the room to talk to the Pirate coach for something like 10 minutes. After that he went over to the rightmost end of the room, crossing in front of and completely ignoring the President of the United States, who was standing there trying to look solemn and important and presidential and being completely ignored by everyone, to talk to the Orioles coach. The announcer talked to the Orioles coach for another 10 minutes. Then, the announcer crossed back over to the leftmost side of the room, again completely ignoring the Commander in Chief of the Free World who was trying to bring every bit of gravitas he could to the task of being completely irrelevant to what was going on around him.

And this before the age of cable when EVERYBODY was watching network television. Jimmy Carter looked ridiculously ineffectual in a high visibility event before the entire country. He was never able to shed the 'wimp', 'loser' tag.

The American people expect their president to be someone who can take charge of unscripted situations, who can think on his feet, who can make his presence felt. Not someone so helpless that he can be pushed into the background. The American people expect their president to look and act like the most important person in the room, like a natural leader. Like a man of action. And that Jimmy Carter flatly was not. He didn't have what it takes to be an effective leader. Imagine Reagan in that locker room. Would Reagan have been reduced to a potted plant like that ? Wouldn't he have naturally taken charge of the situation ? Or Clinton for that matter.

Leadership demands more than earnest good intentions. It demands character attributes that Jimmy Carter did not have.

[tabasco]

74. LMAO. Reagan was a two-bit actor. Carter was a Naval commander.

I suppose you think McGovern was a wimp too. (Hint: WWIIDistinguished Flying Cross).

Gullible fools will be the downfall of this country.

Hit the road troll.

[athebea]

76. Carter was a techie, a wonk, not a commander

That was the problem. He was Spock to somebody else's Kirk.

What you think is unimportant. At that game and throughout the Carter years the public saw him correctly as helpless and ineffectual. Were they wrong ?

[tabasco]

79. Reagan's administration was the most corrupt in modern times, before Bush.

His underlings criminally subverted the government before and during his time in office. Ollie North delivered a birthday cake to Ayatollah Khomeini on behalf of Ronald Fucking Reagan in his subversive efforts to undermine Carter. You think working behind the back of the President for political gain is strong, effective leadership? Maybe if you like the mafia running your country. You think giving nerve agent to Saddam Hussein was an example of great leadership? Reagan was a stuffed-shirt figurehead just like Bush. The corporate elite spend a lot on propaganda because it works on fools like you. I suppose you think Bush is a hard workin' cowboy too. Idiot.

You disparage Carter's military service. Pray tell us about Reagan's heroism in WWII. I believe his service consisted of fucking soldiers' wives in Hollywood. Carter was a senior grade Lieutenant Commander in the Navy.

[athebea]

81. Now you are just spewing ineffectually...

... Reagan won. Carter lost.

Carter was run out of town on a rail after carrying six states. Reagan would have easily won a third term.

Your response is full of the futile helplessness, the impotent rage the left felt during the Reagan years. No wonder the right had such ease depicting the left during those years as the party of loser resentment.

Now, you can either learn or you can repeat the blunders of the past.

[tabasco]

85. You are spewing quite effectually all over your Saint Ronnie!

Please clean up after your Reagan-gasm!

[athebea]

80. Apparently you don't comprehend...

... that the qualities of effective leadership have less to do with IQ than with emotional intelligence.

In IQ obviously Carter rated higher than Reagan. But there are lots of different ways of being smart. IQ has nothing to do with judgement and temperament.

Reagan wasn't the handsomest guy or the best actor but he became a movie star. He wasn't the most smartest guy but he became governor of California and president of the US. This was a man who entered two fiercely competitive fields, acting and politics, and was completely successful at both. You could look at Carter and see that this man had never had to deal with an environment of zero sum competition in his life. He had never had a 'trial by fire'.

If sincerely want to comprehend the reasons Carter failed, dig up an old James Fallows essay named The Passionless Presidency.

[tabasco]

83. You wouldn't know a leader if he kicked you in the shin.

I have commanded infantry troops in combat and understand quite a bit about leadership.

You don't comprehend the difference between a stage act and reality.

[TankLV]

78. RAY-GUN was a mediocre actor who knew how to hog th spotlight...

Right - I'll pay attention to how Carter was "standing" after some non-important forgettable game.

Right.

I'll have to remember next time...

[athebea]

84. Why such frantic denial ?

The final game of the World Series which doubtless at least half the country was watching ? Non-important forgettable game ? Looking like a helpless fool in front of half the country ?

Why is there such frantic denial about the obvious fact that Carter simply didn't have what it takes to be an effective leader ? That he had zero command presence and conveyed fumbling, well-meaning helplessness ? While Reagan had a very effective command presence.

[athebea]

72. An effective leader has to be able to inspire fear

Carter's only flaw was his belief that all (even Repukes) people are inherently good.

And that flaw is called stupidity.

A leader has to be able to crack the whip. He has to be able to rewards friends and punish enemies. An effective president has to be able to be an SOB when called for. A leader who is foolishly naive about people will not be able to do so.

That is why Republicans dominated the White House during those years. Because Mondale and Dukakis as well conveyed a Carterish earnest 'goodness'. I mean, in the April of 1988 I read in the Baltimore papers the Willie Horton story when it came out. When I read it I was appalled. I thought to myself, "this is political dynamite. I sure hope the Dukakis campaign comes up with a way to handle this." So what did the Dukakis campaign do ? Assume that a charge that pushed white people's race and crime red buttons would just vanish of its own political incorrectness as if the manners and mores of Brookline and Cambridge prevailed across the country. They thought it would blow over if they ignored it. That was stupid wishful thinking.

What was Carter's first massive legislative priority ? The Panama Canal treaty. An issue that galvanized the right and did not one damn thing for the left. He 'won' that fight but wasted irreplaceable political capital on a politically completely empty victory. Like Clinton did with NAFTA.

[BootinUp]

63. Would have been tough years

for any President. A review of the things Carter did and tried to do shows he had the right ideas just not enough time and not enough support from Congress. Some of that was his fault of course.

[Mend]

5. NASCAR types...eom

[nascar55]

20. whats a nascar

type? I love nascar....I did not like Reagan. All nascar fans are not reputs. That was a unfair statment.

[Clark2008]

27. Really now?

My step-Dad loves NASCAR. Introduced it to my son. My step-Dad wouldn't vote for a Republican if you paid him and my son has grown up believing Bush is an idiot. Interesting to note, too, that my step-Dad is very "country." He's from a rural area and grew up on a farm. His whole family thinks that Republican are evil, so that stereotype is out as far as my step-Dad's family is concerned.

Actually, it's quite nice being in my family. My Mom is an ex-hippy. She hates Shrub. My step-Dad is a country bumpkin. He hates Shrub. My in-laws are well-to-do, highly educated researchers. They hate Shrub. Family get-togethers are interesting in that we're all from different walks of life, have different levels of education, live different lives, but everyone, to a tee, hates Bush. LOL!

[I Have A Dream]

82. Lucky you!

:)

[NewJeffCT]

6. moderate Dems who always voted Democratic until Reagan came along

usually middle class or working class whites who had always voted Democratic... but, when Reagan came along and spoke in code about "welfare queens driving cadillacs" and against things like affirmative action, problems with the government, etc, it struck a chord with some of them and they switched to voting for Reagan and have been generally Republican voters ever since.

[Cha]

64. They sound like a

gullible bunch..they musta really dug that trickle down campaign.

reagun was all talk and not a whiff of substance.

I hear they're packaging fred thompson as a reagunite..wonder if he can suck 'em in like the silver tongued actor?

I have nothing against actors but don't go putting a man in the office of the US presidency whose only job is to act the part.

[Captain Hilts]

7. FDR-voting Democrat, often Catholic, that voted for Reagan. nt

[TahitiNut]

48. Actually, it's "Kennedy-voting" ... not "FDR-voting"

And it's typically a blue-collar, union worker. Macomb County, Michigan (right next door to me) was the archetype for the "Reagan Democrat" who felt that the Democratic Party had abandoned them.

[bryant69]

9. It's a historical term more than anything; it refers to Democrats

often Great plains and Great lakes union types, who voted for Reagan over Carter, largely on issues of national pride and defense. In a more broad sense it could refer to someone who is Democratic on economic issues, but willing to be persuaded to vote Republican on Social and Foreign policy issues.

That's my take anyway.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[JHB]

13. That's a good characterization, but...

...I don't think what happened was "persuasion" so much as having their prejudices and fears played upon (on the social & foreign policy front), and falling for bait and switch promises on the economic front.

[orleans]

57. wikipedia on reagan democrats:

"Reagan Democrat is an American political term used by political analysts to denote traditionally Democratic voters, especially white working-class Northerners, who defected from their party to support Republican President Ronald Reagan in both the 1980 and 1984 elections. It is also used to refer to the smaller but still substantial number of Democrats who voted for George H. W. Bush in the 1988 election.

"The classic study of Reagan Democrats is probably the work of the Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg. Greenberg analyzed white ethnic voters (largely unionized auto workers) in Macomb County, Michigan, just north of Detroit. The county voted 63 percent for John F. Kennedy in 1960, but 66 percent for Reagan in 1984. He concluded that "Reagan Democrats" no longer saw Democrats as champions of their middle-class aspirations, but instead saw them as working primarily for the benefit of others: the very poor, the unemployed, African Americans, and other political pressure groups. In addition, Reagan Democrats enjoyed gains during the period of economic prosperity that coincided with the Reagan administration following the "malaise" of the Carter administration. They also supported Reagan's strong stance on national security and opposed the 1980s Democratic Party on such issues as pornography, crime, and taxes.<1>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_Democrat

i think of them as turncoats.

[Sweet Freedom]

10. A democrat with alzheimers. /nt

[Birthmark]

11. A Republican trying to avoid responsibility

[JHB]

12. Middle & working-class "rock solid" people (predominantly white)...

...who fell for Reagan's bait & switch rhetoric because he was an actor who knew how to look good in front of a camera.

[deutsey]

39. Yep, middle and working class people who vote against their own interests n/t

[madokie]

14. a repuke moran

what else could they be. they damn sure aren't democrats or independents

[Philosoraptor]

15. Dumb shits that I'll never forgive

[NoPasaran]

16. Socially conservative to moderate Democrats

Who believe in a strong military and American values as portrayed by Norman Rockwell. Religious, but usually not fanatically so---more likely to be a member of a traditional mainstream faith than a megachurch. They went over to Reagan because they felt that the Democratic party had drifted too far to the left and they were ashamed of the mess that Carter had made. Now it seems they're drifting back toward us because of the Bush disasters. I welcome them.

[Demeter]

17. The Archie Bunker Class of Americans

Ignorant, belligerent, gullible, and very sorry for being scammed. Finally deciding they don't want to drink a beer with W.

[gollygee]

18. My parents

My dad voted Democratic all the time until Regan. Now he goes back and forth between the two. My mom voted for Regan but she almost always votes for Dems now. She says she won't vote for anyone who isn't pro-choice now so she's pretty solidly in the Dem category at this point. My dad voted for GWB the first time but not the second. My mom didn't vote for him either time. But they're both very moderate, or even conservative, as far as Dems go.

[DFW]

21. To all the (accurate) responses, I would add:

A Reagan Democrat is an endangered species, rapidly on a course for extinction.

[Benhurst]

24. Dixiecrats, now mostly out of the closet as registered Republicans.

In the South, "The Party of Lincoln" has become "The Party of Jeff Davis and Strom Thurmond."

[liberaldemocrat7]

67. The Party of Lincoln has turned into the party of George Lincoln Rockwell

and David Duke. That's why I call their party the REPUBLIKLAN party.

[Hubert Flottz]

25. "What is a Reagan Democrat?"

Disgusting.(like Joe Lieberman)

[Perky]

26. Historically they were union and catholic from the rustbelt (eom)

[rasputin1952]

28. A mythical being, conjured up by the imagination of people that

have never had to look reality in the face.

The "Reagan Democrat" is often depicted as a two-faced demi-god, with the head of a human, but the body of a weasel. Easily fooled by empty rhetoric, an having a predisposition for enjoying Grade B movies, the "RD", like Reagan himself, would take a grain of truth, and create a mountain of golden phrases and gestures that proved to be nothing more than illusion.

Neither swift of foot or of mind, "RD's" are trapped easily in a world of mis-belief and jargon. In time, the "RD" realizes he/she has been duped, and attempts to right the wrong he has helped to inflict upon the country, but trapped in a maze devised by the Reaganites, (a body of ideologues who have attempted to raise Reagan to deity status).

"Reagan Democrats" in their own convoluted way, were attempting to reach out for something that did not exist, a return to the 50's, a dream like state where women wore dresses to do housework and prepare meals, but were not permitted to engage in thought. Reagan, and his son Bonzo, (who would become the 43rd president of the US), seemed to be an answer, when there really were few questions being asked. When Regan began to falter, (some 30 minutes after taking office), many "RD's" realized a great mistake had been made, but it was too late to change the course. Drawn to a visceral mode, the "RD's" followed the "master" that had created them. Slowly, the weasel in the "RD's" took control of many of their thinking processes, and Ronnie got a 2nd term.

Many of the "RD's" were taken in by GHWB, as he spoke platitudes to the Flag, and promised tax relief and a peaceful world. Another illusion, but GHWB was not about to be re-elected as was his predecessor. In fact, GHWB cast a spell upon the "RD's" and they regained their thinking powers to elect an intelligent man as president, much to the relief of the world, catastrophe had been averted.

"RD's" stayed away from gwbush, and only by nefarious means did Bonzo get into the WH. Some "RD's" hung on to GOP propaganda, but not many. Fortunately for bush/Bonzo an ogre came up from the swamp by the name of Ralph Nader, who made it easier for bush/Bonzo to take the reigns of power.

As in all Greek Tragedies, bush/Bonzo proved to be a great failure, costing untold misery upon the lives of the people he "led". Demosthenes never found his "honest man", neither did the "RD's"...:(

[Hubert Flottz]

31. You nailed it my friend!

RDs were people who hated the America the founders had in mind!

[rasputin1952]

36. What gets me is the level of denial by so many people that ...

Reagan was not just a dud as president, but also the key figure that set up all of the terrorist situations we face today.

I'm certainly no scholar in ME affairs, but I do know something about human nature and radicals. When Regan scooted from Beirut after the Marine Corps barracks bombing, it set the stage for what is happening today. That show of all bravado and not spine ensured that the radicals in th ME that the US would not stick around when the going got tough. When you have people that will hold a grudge for 800+ years over the theft of goat, you better look into what you're dealing with, and understand that the people you are trying to impress live in a completely different world. Once we left Beirut, it was obvious, (to religious zealots in the area), that we would not do much more than talk big and carry little more than a Whiffleball bat. That single act set up the invasion of Kuwait, suicide bombings on a much higher scale, and eventually the fiasco in Iraq.

Reagan lived life as an illusion, and he passed that illusion on to many millions, and millions now suffer because of it. Reagan was a shell of a human being, nothing there but silly platitudes and tough talk that was never backed up. The most ridiculous thing that is still believed is that he brought down the USSR singlehandedly...it just happened on his watch after a process that was begun by Harry Truman and carried on through all subsequent administrations to varying degrees. Reagan opened the floodgates in military spending, and in an attempt to keep up, the USSR went belly up; something that was guaranteed many years before by people far more competent than Reagan.

:hi:

[Hubert Flottz]

40. Reagan's "Deregulation" made ENRON and a host of other bad

things come to pass. Like the stealing of many of the benefits the government promised we Veterans back in the 60s and 70s. The turning out of millions of mentally ill people onto the streets to become homeless and aimless and unprotected. The raiding of social security funds again and again. You couldn't find a job when Reagan was in office. The steel Industry moved to China and Japan. Reagan and his corporate bosses, began the exportation in mass of American jobs.

I did like Reagan's cheese, but I hated not having a job for months on end.

Edit...When Reagan was president I ate so much welfare cheese I had to put a screen over my ass to keep the rats out!

[rasputin1952]

43. ROFLMAO...

"When was president I ate so much welfare cheese I had to put a screen over my ass to keep the rats out!"....


don't forget the S&L disaster that cost the taxpayers pretty big, and no one was tossed in prison,,,the bush's made out like bandits...


Reagan was an asshole, and once he found out people ate the cheese....it was discontinued! But "ketchup is a vegetable" made it OK...:eyes:

Let's no forget he "trees cause pollution" idiocy either...:crazy:

[Hubert Flottz]

50. You couldn't take a group picture in West Virginia when Reagan

was president, because every time you'd say "Cheese" everybody in the state, would run and get into a big long line, instead of the typical and much more photogenic group gaggle!

[rasputin1952]

51. LOL...

FWIW, llast time son and I went through WV, it was still prett beautiful, at least where we were. Looks like the mining companies are trying to make it look like AZ or the moon though...:(

[Hubert Flottz]

65. The "Mountain Top Removal' mining operations are wrecking it.

Attacking some of the most beautiful land in the state, the Gauley canyon country. A sad thing indeed.

[rasputin1952]

69. I have often wondered if those who pursue the wealth ...

contained w/in the various states, ever consider the beauty they are destroying. The I-80 corridor is another prime example. The logging Co's left a 100 yard or so swath on either side of the road, making it look like the Evergreen State was indeed still under the canopy of coniferous trees, and yet, park on the shoulder and take a short walk, and in many places it looks like a moonscape. Entire mountains denuded of all vegetation, in an attempt to harvest every tree that had been standing, no matter what it's worth or size. Smoldering pyres of brush fill the air with the last few particles of a once vast forest...The ecological disaster goes way beyond just the loss of trees...much of the area is now beyond redemption during this generation...:(

[athebea]

73. I notice a consistent contempt for working class people...

... in these responses.

That was another factor in the creation of the Reagan Democrat. The perception that the party of FDR, Truman and Kennedy had been hijacked by the counterculture, by the protesters, by the flag burners, by the left intelligentsia who looked down their noses at people who worked with their hands and no longer represented or even respected their interests or values.

[rasputin1952]

86. The reality of the present time show that a 180 in perception

has occurred. The conservatives are now seen as the ones who despise and abuse the Working class, as they are.

One of the great problems of the neo-cons is their ability to fell that everyone is beneath them and therefore worthy of contempt because they "don't earn their way". RD's were fooled by the lie that they would all suddenly become extraordinarily wealthy, naturally, that didn't happen. In fact, the majority of Americans saw their wages stagnate while CEO's and other make a fistful of cash on top of their already inexplicable wealth.

Reagan was a facade, a shell, there was no substance to him at all. In the later years, when Alzheimer's took hold, he was still in office and making absurd statements and believing he was the "savior of the people". Far from it, he was aiding in the detraction of our constitutional government. bush II, has come close to fulfilling the neo-con dream, a system of government by the privileged, something we fought against some 230 years ago.

When Barry Goldwater, in his later years derided the GOP as a "bunch of shitheads", I know that the GOP of yore, a somewhat decent party with some good notions, (ie, balanced budgets, applicable defense to a threat, and, believe it or not, Civil Rights).

All Reagan ever had to do was rea the script given to him, and he did that well, as actors tend to do.

[babylonsister]

29. Thanks, everyone!

:hi: :thumbsup:

[SoCalDem]

30. Wishy-washy naive people who were swayed by the "Gipper" and the way he could act his way through

prepared script. he "played" the part of president for about 6 years..(the remaining 2, he was foggy, at best).

His "presidency" was the puppet presidency of GHWB....

[dbonds]

33. Put it in context. It was more about Carter than Reagan

At the time the country was in bad shape: inflation in the teens, gas crisis, iran hostage crisis. And it looked like Carter was bumbling. So some Dems voted for Reagan for a change. No one knew or understood exactly what that meant, it was just change. No one either knew that it was Papa Bush causing some of these bad things to make Carter look bad.

[Odin2005]

35. socially conservative blue collar types.

They generally are left-wing on economic issues and right-wing on social issues and foreign affairs.

[BeyondThePale]

37. a fool who will be parted with his money by the repug machine!

[Cobalt Violet]

38. I got mine and the hell with everyone else types.

Welfare bashers.

[mitchum]

41. A sucker, a mark, a rube (n/t)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

42. Lierman, et al.

[tsuki]

44. Credit card rich who think that they will one day be Republican rich.

[Initech]

45. Um... Zell Miller?

A guy who pretends to be something he's not?

[BlooInBloo]

46. A republican who knows it's wrong, and tries to cover for it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. The mythical "middle" that the politicians pander to.

[Orsino]

49. A racist in denial? n/t

[leftofthedial]

53. a repuke

[SammyWinstonJack]

54. A greedy sell out?

:shrug:

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

55. It is total and utter, made-in-the-wool, nose-deep, BULLSHIT!

THAT is what a "Reagan Democrat" is: total, utter, made-in-the-wool, nose-deep bullshit.

Questions?

[lonestarnot]

56. A new brand of toilet paper.

[newportdadde]

58. Voters who were tired of unending double digit interest rates... grain embargo, 80s olympics etc.

I think many of those voters now realize the mistake they made but hindsight is 20/20. So since many of those voters are now back in our party it might be a good idea that we understand why they did what they did so it doesn't repeat.

[athebea]

75. And do you blame them ?

I don't. The country was in a mess in 1980.

[VTMechEngr]

59. A living Benedict Arnold. nt

[ikojo]

60. White working class person who was easily

duped into believing the American lie that if only you work hard enough you, too, can be rich like a CEO, so why not vote like the CEO.

[ourbluenation]

61. My husband and my father. They both voted for Nadar too.

frustrating as hell.

[BootinUp]

62. Middle to upper middle class dems that thought their own

party f'ed up the economy in the 60's and 70's.

[Solly Mack]

66. a republican

[retread]

68. A question to those who blame Carter for St. Ronnie. Do you think

the mass media was always "fair and balanced" and just recently became a tool of corporatists?

[dkofos]

70. A person easily DUPED!

[TankLV]

77. An intellectually lazy person easily swayed by appearaces over substance...

But LAZY when it comes to really wanting to understand what's happening...

In other words - a "Good German"...