Why do some people prefer to own "super-sized" dogs?

[NNN0LHI]

I am talking about purebred dogs that are twice the size that the AKC recognizes as the standard. Labs, German Shepards, Dobermans, etc. I mean they are huge. And the breeders are breeding them for the larger size because that is what they say the people want.

I seen a lot of these dogs here limping around here where I had to bring my normal sized Keeshond to have her knee repaired after she blew it out playing with my other one in my back yard a couple of years ago:

http://www.vetspecialty.com/

I see these dogs in my neighborhood and many of them are limping around from bad knees or hips before they are one year old. And most people can't afford the money it takes to get them fixed up so they live a life of pain. I don't understand this. What is the attraction to owning huge dogs?

More food costs. More crap to clean up. All around harder on the environment. And more medical bills because their legs and organs can't take the burden of the excess weight. And they don't live as long.

Why? Maybe there is a good reason I am not aware of.

As you guessed this is a pet peeve with me. No pun intended.

Don

[uppityperson]

1. I don't know why people breed "exotics", probably lots of reasons.

I see a big difference between breeding exotic plants and exotic animals though. It seems that sometimes people do not look out for the animal's best interests, but just their physical looks. And this is a problem I have with AKC in general also, breeding for looks, not temperament.

[NNN0LHI]

5. If it were only looks I have a male Keeshond who could have earned enough points to be a champion

His problem was his temperament. He was a little growly. Didn't like the judge (or anyone else) hovering over him. Like to check his teeth which is required in the ring. He has never bit or even become aggressive with anyone. Not even kids or the cat. He has a good heart. Just a little growly.

Don

[uppityperson]

6. I had a rescued purebred Irish setter for one day/night once.

Beautiful dog, very beautiful but dump as a bag of rocks. He ate my couch. No, I'm exaggerating. Only 1/4 of the couch. Later I ran into some people with a couple of them and they told me they were VERY selective who they bred with because they wanted dogs that had brains as well as looks.

[DBoon]

9. I think dogs can figure out the "breeding" thing themselves

without humans intervening

And usually the results are healthier and happier dogs.

[uppityperson]

19. I have a 95# pound puppy, rotten retriever

thinking golden retriever and rottweiler with who knows what else mixed in their. AKC? Show dog? Able to make money off him? Nope. Just a really nice protective doofus whom we all love and are mourning his aging.

[EFerrari]

2. Holy cow, are you serious? Is this happening?

I bought a Lab from a breeder last summer because I have a bunch of rescue cats, some still recovering from abuse, and couldn't take a risk on a rescue dog with issues. I didn't know enough to know I was buying hunting stock, not pet stock. If she gets huge, there will be hell to pay. :silly:

[lse7581011]

3. I Don't Know Either

but my 18 lb. shitzu is the light of my life!

[WilliamPitt]

4. How did humans come to tame dogs in the first place?

We have dogs today because our proto-human ancestors sucessfully managed to tame "super-sized" dogs.

Back then, our ancestors called them "Grunt, snurk, feg."

We call them wolves.

No present, no future, only the past endlessly repeating, now.

;)

[EFerrari]

7. I blame Purina myself.

:rofl:

[DBoon]

11. I think it was dogs that tamed humans

seriously, I think part of the path to civilzation involved our association with canines.

And I think it was the canines who first figured out how to get humans to give them free food, rather than humans figuring out how to domesticate dogs.

[EFerrari]

14. LOL! Your're probably right!

:rofl:

[WilliamPitt]

18. Proto-humans were pack animals, too

Both species operated along similar social lines, both species were organized according to alpha dominance, pack society, strength, and all God's creatures need to eat. Modern canines are likely the generational reward humans got for establishing a symbiotic relationship (food, protection) with such worthy beasts. ;)

[EFerrari]

23. Funny thing, there are no orphans in wild dog packs.

So, I tend to think the dogs domesticated us.

[WilliamPitt]

31. Just be sure

to pay no attention to me. I'm blue-skying all this symbiosis/pack/alpha/wolf stuff. It sounds good, though, right?

Me = quantum singularity of stupid. I bend light with the galaxy-devouring gravity of my comprehensive dumb.

:)

[EFerrari]

32. And you do it beautifully.

:)

[ikojo]

21. No, it was cats who tamed humans...they needed

servants and since we had opposable thumbs they domesticated us to serve them.

[WilliamPitt]

27. Somewhere in there, cats made an impressive leap.

From feral, to tamed, then to Egypt, where they managed to get themselves anointed as living gods.

Furniture-scratching, poo-burying, pee-stinking gods, yes, but gods nonetheless.

Getting to Egypt is to cats what spoken and written language is to humans. A big-ass day in history.

:)

[pink-o]

57. The Egyptians were the first agricultural society...

...storing grain in silos--so rodent-eating felines were suddenly their best friends. The domestic kitty is descended from those Egyptian cats, which the Phonecians spread across ancient Europe when they kidnapped them and took 'em out to sea on their boats. For the same reason: rat control.

That's why I brought my cat back from the shelter--natural rodent repeller. She did a wonderful job keeping those vile vermin out of my house, but I never expected to be waiting on her paw and foot!!! They are manipulative little sociopaths, aren't they? Self-contained serial killers. Good thing they're warm, fuzzy and purr like they do, otherwise they'd be intolerable!

But back on topic: why would anyone object to large dogs? They started out as wolves, not voles!! It's the little Yorkies, Shitzus and Chihuahuas that are the mutants! I've always had big dogs, they're mellower and less aggressive, and best of all you can run with them.

My personal belief is that humans as a species do not deserve dogs. We kill without reason, we destroy our own planet, we extinct and abuse the other life on this earth, we breed like germs and are completely self-absorbed. Dogs give us unconditional love, they save our sorry lives when we're in danger, they sniff out our cancer and bug us till we get it checked out--they even love us if we hurt them. If ever a species was less worthy of dogs, I couldn't name it!!

[DBoon]

34. My dog begs to disagree!

nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. ...

:evilgrin:

[pitohui]

15. humans didn't tame wolves, the wolf and the goose domesticated themselves

will -- i think you have your history wrong, i don't think it is currently believed that humans tamed the wolf to create the dog, it is believed now that wolf made the first move... the wolf as a natural pack animal of high intelligence, noticed the free food being cooked around the fire and sort of sauntered up and "volunteered" itself to be tamed, this would most likely be a younger and smaller puppy that wasn't doing so well in its wolf life and became attracted to the possibility of a different kind of life

we see this w. geese even today, a goose spots an area that looks good for goose (such as a nice green golf course or industrial park complete with pond and lawn) and logically concludes that if you are putting the welcome mat out for goose, then goose you shall have -- many geese volunteer themselves and stop migrating, transforming themselves from wild to feral/domesticated w.out any request made by the humans involved -- indeed over the objections of the humans involved who didn't stop and think what lawn plus pond looks like from above (goose heaven/haven)

:-)

[WilliamPitt]

24. I am quite completely talking...er, typing, out of my ass.

I know about as much biology and early human/canine history as Bush knows about the cost of a gallon of milk.

Sounded good, though. Taming big dogs, and I even went on about symbiosis in another post.

If bullshit were money, all the drinks would be on me. :)

[havocmom]

38. 'twas the wolf pup and early WOMAN who made the pact

She with much to tend, only two eyes and a lot of tidying up around the camp with untrained, nikkid young running around and all. The canine ancestor to Skippy was good at clean up, an extra set of eyes backed by a brain with complete understanding that the young need the whole pack to look after them. Mom thanks Cro-Skippy with some chow.

Soon, Dad and the guys notice Cro-Skippy seems to respond to visual communication. Why, he's a natural for hunting!

Ta-Da! Bob's yer uncle - there's a Lab at your feet.

[pitohui]

61. you're almost certainly correct now that you tickle my memory

i also heard the original tenders of the geese were "goose girls" (women, not men, clicked with these big birds)

interesting the natural connection that many women i know, including myself, have w. wild animals, i don't know if it's something about our body language or what that makes us seem less threatening and easier to approach, could even be the lack of testosterone scent in the case of the dog/wolf, how many times have we been sitting alone and a wild animal is happy to approach but it leaves when we try to show the animal to a male partner or companion

hmmm

[minkyboodle]

71. excerpt from a transcript of a great NOVA program concerning this

NARRATOR: For Ray Coppinger and other dog experts who reject the adoption hypothesis, the challenge has been to find an alternative. How else might the journey from wolf to sled dog—and all the other diverse forms dogs take—have begun?

It was only when he started thinking about what was in it for the wolves that Coppinger came up with an answer. Now he's convinced wolves chose domestication, and they did so because of the easy pickings in a Stone Age equivalent of this Tijuana dump.

In a dump, an animal that's a little tamer, a little less likely to get scared off by people, has a better chance of finding food and surviving. It's true today and, Coppinger argues, it would have been just as true a long time ago.

RAY COPPINGER: Imagine 14,000 years ago when people first get the idea of living in a village. They settle down, they build permanent houses, and around that permanent...those permanent houses, all the waste products of their economies build up. You've got waste food; you've got waste materials of all kinds. Now there's a whole set of animals that move in on that. We know them now: we've got house mice, we've got cockroaches, we've got pigeons, we've got all kinds of animals that are living off the human waste. One of them is the wolf. The wolf moves into that kind of a, of a setting, that new niche, that new foraging area, and it's great. You don't have to chase anything, you don't have to kill anything. You just wait; people dump it in front of you.

NARRATOR: Not every animal can take advantage of this resource. Most wild animals run away when humans approach. The few that don't, have a real advantage. They're going to get most of the food, and that means their offspring are more likely to survive. Each new generation becomes increasingly tame.

RAY COPPINGER: The ones that run away the first time anybody shows up, those are the ones that are going to be selected against, they're going to go out, have to make an honest living out in the wild. They're not going to be able to get enough out of that dump. So here's natural selection in action. Any one wolf that's a little tamer than the other, who can stay there longer, get more food, he's the one that's going to win that evolutionary battle.

full transcript here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3103_dogs.html

[Fridays Child]

17. Proto-human ancestors? Way to hijack the thread!

[jaksavage]

51. Stepping stones

Big trucks
Big dogs
Big breasts
Big houses
Big penises
Big egos
Big hair

All the better to fool you with

[FlaGranny]

65. I don't think humans tamed wolves.

I think wolves learned how to get easy meals from humans. ;)

[canetoad]

8. I hadn't heard of this

Could it just be another fad? Standard poodles were (still are) magnificent retrieval dogs, but the french aristocracy wanted lapdogs, hence the selective breeding of toys and miniatures.

It's an unfortunate fact that many dog breeders are in it for money and will produce puppies that will sell according to the fashion of the hour. Dammit, I want to knock their silly heads together for the pointless misery they are causing.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Just look around. Most the Labs I see around here are over a hundred pounds. Even the females

http://www.purebredlabs.com/Breed_Standards.htm

Standard height for mature males is 22½ to 24½ inches and for mature females, 21½ to 23½ inches. A correctly built Labrador Retriever male in working condition should weigh between 65 and 80 pounds and a female should weigh between 55 and 70 pounds.

[pitohui]

20. could be the fad is also fear based

maybe people get dogs for dual purpose, not just as pets but also as personal protection and there may be a thought that the larger dog is the better protector

i do not hold this theory, indeed, i would choose the smaller dog, both because they on average live longer and in my humble opinion they are more likely to raise cain and get attention in a crisis (rather than licking a burglar to death)

but i think a lot of people intuitively believe "bigger is better" esp. if there is already a large, scary dog present in the neighborhood -- i would be worried about my smaller dog if there was a chow in the area for example (sorry chow owners but i've had bad experiences w. this breed)

[canetoad]

28. There's a thought

Is a chow a giant pomeranian?

[Blue-Jay]

10. I hearken back to the days when wild pomeranians roamed the plains.

Nipping at the ankles of our australopithecine ancestors, and peeing on their mammoth skin rugs. It was a simpler time for us hunter-gatherers and we were generally accepted into their pomeranian packs. The whole agreement went south when we discovered that they were indeed tasty in times of trouble. It was then that they evolved into wolves, in order to have a chance to eat us as well.

Since then, I've never trusted a pomeranian, no matter what Sharon Osbourne thinks. I consider her to be a Quisling in the ongoing human/pomeranian war.

[enlightenment]

12. Why do people think it's cool to own those pocket dogs?

Or mutated cats with 1 inch long legs? Why do we need to breed and inbreed animals into weirdness? There are plenty of cats and dogs out there who could use a home, but people still want a "breed" or a pedigree - or a novelty.

It's sad, imo.

That's my pet peeve (pun intended) :)

[EFerrari]

16. We have these big brains that we don't know what to do with

except mess with stuff. Okay?

[pitohui]

33. i dunno but if you want a dog that barks at strangers, look no further than a chihuahua

those things do not know the size they are and they will NOT hush up if they see if an intruder on THEIR territory

[dsc]

22. The bigger the dog, the scarier it is?

That would be my guess.

[EFerrari]

29. It's really hard to make a Lab look scarey because they smile.

I almost pull it off by putting a completely gratuitous and scarey looking steel collar on my girl so I can walk safely whenever I want to) and since she's a big dog, people walk around us.

But, if I let her close enough to other people, there would be a lot of knee licking going on. I think you could be right about the big/scarey thing.

[Stinky The Clown]

25. In praise of Border Collies ......

..... the only recognized breed with no conformation standards.

Most of them are still bred to work.

Smart as all get-out. Scary smart.

Loyal and loving as pets.

Protective of home and family, yet never mean. Fearless.

Great with kids.

[karlrschneider]

26. I've had probably 100 dogs, never ever bought one.

Most of them have been on the large side of average (whatever that is) but I'm partial to the bigger breeds. I want a dog that can romp and rough-house (and intimidate prowlers.)

The 3 we have now are likewise all adopted...wandered onto our property, most likely having been 'dumped.'

[Wcross]

36. Thank you karl for taking care of the dumped dogs!

I live out in the sticks, I get my fair share of dumped animals, I try to find them homes. I am at my financial limit for pets right now. It costs some serious money to take care of an animal properly. I have six now and couldn't afford to take in another. This upcoming vacation is going to cost me 300 bucks just for the kennel!

[karlrschneider]

46. There are almost ALWAYS a few out here at our lakeside community.

We think people from the city bring them out here assuming someone will take them in...and nearly everyone does as much as they can afford. Our latest one is a little female Australian "blue heeler"...totally deaf and was nearly dead when she showed up in the yard...full of worms, scabies, etc. Was barely weaned. She can't hear a thing but she takes cues from the other 2 and doesn't miss a thing. :D

I hate to mention this but some people around here shoot strays. I don't really fault them, we see too many run over and dying of starvation. Many people think doggies can 'live off the land'...they really can't. :cry:

[Wcross]

50. Shooting of strays is very common around here too.

I understand the need to protect your livestock. Pet dumpers are either idiots or pigs. All they are doing is making other people take care of their problem for them. I've had a few strays I had to get rid of after a futile attempt to find them homes. The pound workers make you fill out a form and treat you like dirt. No wonder people "euthanize" strays.

[karlrschneider]

52. Even worse - around here- there is no pound/animal shelter in this county.

The nearest one is over in Tulsa, 60 miles away. :grr:

[Lobster Martini]

30. Beats me--my relatives and I have different opinions...

I have well-meaning relatives that will only adopt German shepherds. One was slightly larger than their sofa and aggressive--they couldn't keep that one--and the current one has hip dysplasia. Their dog trainer recommends training methods that I consider cruel, especially since the dog is reasonably well-behaved. (It's not the dog's fault that it's bigger than a buffalo.) Other friends have dogs that are too large to be stuffed into an SUV and have no room to romp. And yeah, breeds prone to hip dysplasia like German shepherds are going to run up some serious vet bills that a lot of people will not want to pay. It's not fair to the dogs.

Beats me. Happy with my ten-pound terrier.

[conspirator]

35. The same reason why people want big SUVs. To intimidate others nt

[DBoon]

37. and what Veblen called "conspicuous consunption"

meaning "I have so much money I can just waste it on useless things. That way, everyone knows how much money I have."

[LizofOz]

39. Actually...

We have a German Shepherd for a safety factor. My husband works the graveyard shift and since we will never have a gun in the house because of our two boys, we decided that a dog would be the best thing.

He's a loving dog who protects us and makes me feel very safe at night when hubby is away.

I'm a newbie here. I like this site a lot. Hope to be a good member here..

[EFerrari]

41. Welcome to DU, Liz.

:)

[Marr]

44. Yep.

Growing up, my parents' house was right next door- literally next door- to a prison. And with both parents working, I was home alone a fair amount in the evenings. I appreciated my Great Dane's companionship quite a bit.

[Marr]

40. Maybe they just like big dogs.

I had a Great Dane when I was a kid, and she's still the standard by which I measure all other dogs. She was just great. We got her from a dog rescue program, and she'd been abused by her previous owner. She was the most loyal, protective dog I've ever known. Died about 15 years ago.

*sniff*

I miss my dog.

[EFerrari]

43. Aw! I miss my girl, too. August 2006.

Only now can I even look at her pix and her leash and stuff. RIP, my dear.

[havocmom]

42. Always wanted a big dog. Got the dog of my dreams. I can 'be little' with him around.

Sweet, smart, highly developed sense of humor.... We don't have a couch so why the hell not?

Actually, the 90 Pound Hound is not really large for his breed but about perfect. His momma was undersized though; a Golden Retriever at barely 45 pounds.

[BikeWriter]

45. A Great Dane rescue of mine was the best cow dog I've owned...

150 pounds of babysitter, or whatever else I wanted him to be. Thank Dog for good pets!

[beardown]

47. Because big is as big does sometimes

I've always liked the northern breeds. Found a couple with two Malamutes and a litter of pups. Not quite purebred, but close. Blaze has a great personality and mask. He is down to 150 pounds from his high of 170. He is slowing down, but has no health problems. He is nine years old. If a 9 year old 150 pound dog can do this well, he isn't necessarily oversized.

One warning, never get a dog that is eye level with your kitchen counter.

[DemReadingDU]

48. My 'standard' is that If I can't pick up the dog

the dog is too big!

:)


edit to add: I have a sweet 15 pound beagle now, :)

[yella_dawg]

49. Fear and intimidation

We live in an age where fear and the need to intimidate and dominate has become an accepted facet of society. The bigger the dog, the less one can be intimidated and the more one can intimidate. Same for SUVs and McMansions.

[helderheid]

53. I thought you were talking about something else...

:hide:

[stevedeshazer]

54. My dog owns me, and he is a small auxiliary dog

A border terrier, to be precise.

Absolutely fearless, loves kids, never bites, and is my very best friend.

There are large dogs in my neighborhood, and Charlie has no problem greeting them, all 18 pounds of him.

He's fifteen years old. I've been his dad since he was six weeks old.

Big dogs don't do well in urban environments.

That said, as a boy I had a Keeshond. His name was Casey. He died after being struck by a speeding car. It was my fault because I didn't contain him and his enthusiasm for the bitch down the road in heat.

[ellisonz]

56. Cellphones.

[leftofthedial]

58. they go with the SUV

and the McMansion

[Edweird]

59. Ever seen a Neopolitan Mastiff? They've been around for quite some time.

Super duper size. The Romans used them as war dogs. This isn't something new.

[Withywindle]

63. My parents have a Bull Mastiff

Gigantic dog with a gigantic head and gigantic drool issues. But she's the smartest, sweetest--most spoiled rotten, demanding dog who's got my dad completely trained to serve her every whim. (My mother thinks she's the reincarnation of my dad's grandmother.)

Big dogs rule. Assuming you have room for them of course (my parents live way out in the sticks and have a lot of fenced land)--I think it's evil to keep a huge dog in a small city apartment and I want to smack people who do it for the machismo.

[Edweird]

64. I want a neo. Right now we have a rescue pitbull, and he is a wonderful

part of our family.

[NNN0LHI]

66. The original post was not about large breed dogs

I have owned a Great Dane before. Her name was Millie. She was a great dog.

This post is about medium sized dogs who have been selectively bred into sizes up to twice the normal size for that particular breed.

Don

[piedmont]

60. I had never heard of this before you posted. Thanks! nt

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

62. Because They're Not You.

They're them.

To each their own.

[devilgrrl]

67. If Tigers were as tame as say, a St. Bernards - I'd own one

Here kitty kitty!

[AZBlue]

68. That's odd because it's the large dogs that are hard to adopt out from kennels.

It's hard to find a small dog if that's what you're looking for, but the large dogs are unfortunately there in big numbers. They may not be the bred-to-be-too-big dogs, but I would think the pattern would remain constant among large dogs in general.

[nealmhughes]

69. We have 8 dogs at our farm. Only one was bought. The others adopted us.

Otis is a gigantic goofus about 1.5 years old of unknown pedigree, but a huge oily curly long soft coat that feels like a woman's long hair. He is slightly retarted, and good natured and gentle as a lamb, but huge, about 100 lbs. What is odd is that my 6 lb. Jack Russel rescue dog Maybelle can eat as much as he and she frequently leads the whole pack on their afternoon squirrel hunts!
The best dog I've ever had was a Doberman/Lab mix with beautiful mahogany hair, and the most intelligent look I ever saw in a dog. Phil was smart as a whip, could open door knobs and once jumped out an open 2nd story window through the screen to get to a bbq in the front yard where he had been too interested in the coals. . .Out the window, onto my car's roof below, then over a 5 ft chain link fence, down the alley, and around the block (on the sidewalk, without crossing the street) and to the front yard. He barely weighed 45 lbs. and was all muscle, and the few times he got "on alert," like when a drunken party goes shoved me down in my own house for changing a CD, Phil had his massive wolf ancestry come to full light: out came the fangs, then onto the throat and the most menacing growl I have ever heard. It took 3 men to get the dog off of the drunk. He ran as fast as he could, and Phil just came up to the dip and tasted the spinach-artichoke and selected a nice bit of Brie instead, then went to my bedroom.
Size doesn't always matter!
But personally, I like a dog I can pick up in an emergency.

[dysfunctional press]

70. for the exact same reason that some claim some men buy hummers or sports cars-

piccolo...

[HuffleClaw]

72. you mean OTHER than a glaring penile insecurity?

like so many other things

[MadHound]

73. There are people who like big dogs

However I agree that breeding just for size is idiotic. If a person wants a good size dog, normal lab and german shepard proportions are great, but don't enlarge them if you want a bigger dog, just move on to a bigger breed.

I was raised with German Shepards, and have always had a big dog of some sort. I prefer them over small dogs for many reasons, including the intimidation/security factor that a big dog brings.