Democrats in Congress: The Wheels are Coming Off

[babylonsister]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/23742

Democrats in Congress: The Wheels are Coming Off
Submitted by dlindorff on Mon, 2007-06-18 18:37. Impeachment

The wheels are coming off the Democratic machine, with angry voters starting to lose patience with the Party’s chronic inability to act decisively on any of the key issues of public concern.

In a Reuters dispatch on June 18, Democratic leaders in Congress concede that voters are angry with them for not doing enough to end the Iraq War. They might have added that voters are also angry at them for not impeaching the president or even for moving on Rep. Dennis Kucinich’s bill to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney (H Res. 333).

“I understand their disappointment. We raised the bar too high,” bleats Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid (D-NV).

No Harry. You didn’t raise the bar too high. You ducked under the bar, when it came time to act to defund the war.

Last month, instead of cutting off funding for Bush’s war in Iraq, Congress passed a measure providing him with over $100 billion to fund it, attaching no strings to the measure—not even any deadlines for starting to withdraw troops. This after running a 2006 campaign on ending the war.

No wonder Democrats and the independents and, yes, even Republicans who voted Democrats into control of Congress last November are furious.

more...

[spanone]

1. Dems will feel the REAL screwing in September when NOTHING CHANGES WHATSOEVER.

[Warpy]

4. Before the funding bill was passed, Congress enjoyed an

almost unheard of 40% favorable rating. After the funding bill went through, it was 23%.

I think Congress noticed. I'm just hoping they're going to use those benchmarks to their full propaganda potential in September and insist on a timetable for withdrawal. I think it's even money that they will.

They have to know that the party will be SOL if they prove themselves to be spineless, or liars, or both.

[bigtree]

2. brother

:eyes:

The wheels are coming off the republican machine. We're witnessing the end of the appeal of conservatism.

And, with all of the opposition to Bush and the republicans which is supposedly driving all of this Democratic angst over the response of their elected, it's a wonder that anyone would even consider abandoning the party and relegating those concerns we all claim to care about to minority status again.

We need to stay focused on the real opposition and not allow ourselves to become divided by disappointments over whatever the majority hasn't managed yet. It's still our party, and they will need our continued support more than they will benefit from the constant tearing at them. We need to spend our time building coalitions which move us closer to our shared goals instead of hardening into obstinate camps within our own party.

[Labors of Hercules]

6. I agree with you completely.

big tree make good point.

[mdmc]

8. sounds like a call for triangulation

count me out.

I know our party is a little (or a great deal) better then their party. That won't cut it anymore.

The non-voter, or the undecided voter, will turn to the first simple talkin actor the neo-cons can run. They ain't gonna see Hillary as the agent of change.
The non / undecided voter thought the Iraq war was a great idea. Now they think exiting Iraq in defeat is a great idea.
They want it now and they want it their way.

We will have the white house in 2008 (Yay for Hillary!). We will still have the drug war, the Iraq war, and maybe even a war with Iran.

We need to stand for what we believe, or we will fall for everything.

[Horse with no Name]

12. The answer isn't to move the party to the center

IT absolutely isn't. This country has been pulled so far right that the center is STILL Conservative.
People are READY for a change. Unfortunately those advocating centrism in our party will end up making it as obsolete as the republican party.
People are ready for a Feingold or a Gore or a Kucinich...if we offer more of the same, we may not like the fact that voters decide that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

[bigtree]

57. you 'move' the party by forging a consensus. There really isn't a good way to impose those ideas

without an effective majority whose actions aren't subject to being outnumbered on filibusters and presidential vetoes.

And, I don't think any faction which is asserting itself in our party right now has enough of a coalition for their ideas to prevail with their votes alone, much less hold the majority.

[bigtree]

54. you can't get to a majority by just relying on one of these factions or the other

Many of us expect these legislators to work together, at least on the goals they share. Just because one strategy or the other hasn't gotten the support needed to enact or advance it yet, isn't a reason for pushing off and disengaging from the debate. You have to keep pushing your ideas toward a consensus. Our political system is mostly designed for legislators to reconcile the different views and proposals from voters around the nation; not dictate them, especially not without the votes or coalition to sustain such a strident stance as many want our party to assume in this Congress.

I think our soldiers in Iraq would be well served by a compromise which began to bring them home and set a date certain for the end of their deployment. That will only be accomplished by our legislators working together.

[focusfan]

61. What is the appeal of conservatism?

I guess I`m stupid I just don`t understand.

[bigtree]

68. cute

is this one of those DU litmus tests?

[The Stranger]

3. Ralph Nader was right.

[davidwparker]

10. Yep. nt

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[onenote]

32. If you have embraced Ron Paul, you're not any kind of liberal that I've ever known

Unless being liberal includes being so anti-choice that you earn a 20 percent rating from Planned Parenthood.
Unless being liberal includes being so anti-support for the arts that you get a zero rating from the Americans for the Arts Action Fund.
Unless being liberal includes taking position on taxation issues that earn you an 84% rating from National Taxpayers Union (a group that routinely gives folks like Feingold and Conyers ratings in the 20s at highest).
Unless being liberal means taking positions that earn you ratings of only around 50 percent from the NAACP and the ACLU.

I could go on. But maybe this will sum it up: If Ron Paul is a liberal, then so the John Birch Society must be a liberal organization, since they give Ron a 100 percent rating.

Yep, you're a liberal. Not.

[Forkboy]

41. Thank you.

Seeing so called liberals fall for this asshat is depressing.

[blondeatlast]

47. How much granite can you press, anyway? At least you finally said it.

Sheesh. :eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. No He Wasn't. He Was A Loudmouthed Deceitful Narrow Minded Ignorant Piece Of Trash.

No, he wasn't right. No, you're not right in saying he's right. Yes, this "nader was right!" bullshit is getting just a little bit old here. Talk about your knee jerk overly emotional melodramatic bullshit.

[DancingBear]

37. One day you'll actually have something of merit to say

Today, sadly, was not it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. Actually, That Has As Much Merit As Anything Can Have. It Is 100% Accurate.

Now what doesn't have merit, pal, is this absolutely ridiculous and ignorant premise that Nader was in fact right. Totally narrow minded and short sighted in premise.

So the only thing sad I see is that some are reactionary enough to actually put forth the absurdity that the statement actually has some merit, when it obviously does not. :hi:

[DancingBear]

44. Sure it does

I am especially enamored with the phrase " A Loudmouthed Deceitful Narrow Minded Ignorant Piece Of Trash".

That is like, so... ADULT - you know??

Oh, and Nader was COMPLETELY right, but in order to accept same one must first disengage from the hind quarters of the Blind Acceptance Express.

To which, I believe, you are a founding member.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. The Phrase Was Spot On.

Those are the correct adjectives to have used. If ya don't like it too bad. In fact, far worse ones could be additionally used, but there's only so much room in the header.

And you could repeat the absurdity of him being right as much as you want, but it doesn't make it any less ridiculous and short sighted.

No, he wasn't even close to being right. He's a piece of shit arrogant narcissistic closed minded moronic deceitful delusional ignoramus. That's just simply what he is.

[DancingBear]

67. Could we debate it?

Winner gets $500.

I'll take it in large bills, please.

You see, there IS one thing easier than taking candy from a baby.

You really need to bone up on your "skills" - they're laughable.

See? :rofl:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

69. My Response Is At The Link Below Pal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1134433&mesg_id=1134755

And my skills are just fine. Your support for that piece of ignorant trash Nader is laughable.

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. He still is a loudmouthed deceitful narrow minded ignorant piece of trash.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

49. Indeed.

:)

[The Stranger]

51. This response is hysterical.

Especially the frantic denials and exclamation points followed by something about "overly emotional melodramatic bullshit."

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

59. What On God's Earth Are You Friggin Even Talking About?

Frantic denials and exclamation points? Does your monitor like just input things that aren't there or do you just read things wrong? :hi:

[The Stranger]

70. No! Say it isn't so! Nader can't be . . . it can't be . . .

Nader can't be right!!!!!!

(I love this.):crazy:

[brentspeak]

58. Then go to a Green site, and get lost from here.

[mdmc]

5. But the Dems are a little better then the GOP! Stay the course

voters can only choose between Dems and Pukes. We are better then them, but we are not perfect. We must get better. Drop the TRIANGULATION! NOW!

[spanone]

7. unfortunately the course has not wavered.

[catmandu57]

9. I'm disappointed too

I expected much much more. I thought by now people would be denying that they ever voted repug, visions of hearings, impeachments, and imprisonments danced through my head. If this bunch won't do the job we'll just have to hire a new crew that will do the job next year.

[Gloria]

11. They could also carry note cards for when they talk to the press....

Repeat:

"We don't have the votes to pass anything because the Republicans are filibustering and STONEWALLING important bills
that will help the American people."

Instead of the whiny "we don't have the votes." For god's sake, they STILL can't frame anything....

[KoKo]

19. Good Point...Average Americans don't know how many votes are needed but time and again

Democrats in the few times they are given a chance to appear in the media REFUSE to use FRAMING.

I thought Harry Reid had bragged about paying that guy who wrote the Program about Framing. (can't remember his name) but it seems that Reid didn't get his money's worth or bother to take it seriously.

[chaska]

13. And unfortunately, talk of third parties is all over the place...

Fine, but two left parties and one right party, guess what happens.

No third parties without a legal mechanism to guarantee that the above doesn't happen.

[magellan]

14. Their strategy is obvious

No need to stand up when sitting is so much more energy efficient and they can count on people voting for them anyway just because they aren't Repugs.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[magellan]

22. I'll stick with Kucinich

Paul is right about Iraq and the neocons, but I disagree with him on everything else. There's very little I disagree with Kucinich about.

And if you're seriously promoting Paul/Maher, you need to change your handle and avatar. And maybe your forum, too. :)

[CrazyForKucinich]

26. Can I not still support Democrats at the state and local level?

I'm liberal. This is a liberal forum. Although I do believe it's not as liberal as some of you want to believe. There's a lot of hard-headed people here who fail to open their mind(what liberalism is, by definition).

I belong here. I will support liberal-minded people at the state level. I will support the candidate who save our future from Big Brother on the national level. We as a world need balance. Everyone is so one-sided...you're with us or against us. We must think people. You must think about where you stand and what you believe in. Blindly following non-leaders, but rather corporate and militaristic whores...will get us no where as a human race.

I truly believe that.

[magellan]

36. AFAIC you can support whoever you like

I was merely calling into question your use of a Kucinich avatar and handle, and also suggesting that if you really do support a libertarian then you're in for a rough time here. Paul isn't a progressive by any stretch of the imagination, so personally I fail to see the attraction -- beyond his ability to see what we see regarding the neocons. I'd never vote for him.

Kucinich is no corporate or militaristic whore, and he's a bonafide progressive too. Why not stick with DK since you apparently supported him at some point previously?

[CrazyForKucinich]

56. I still support him

and his cause...but I'm a realist. The Democrats are not going to nominate him. The people as a whole have been brainwashed...we need an age of enlightenment but we can't have that with Big Brother in power.

This my motto when it comes to enlightenment:

We can not Love without Liberty.
Liberty without Love is Chaos.
Chaos will kill us all.

I myself have expanded my mind to the point where I am not brainwashed, probably why I do not make any sense to anyone on this forum. I love. I see the grand scope of things. We need to free our minds...we need liberties, we need love. Ron Paul will get us there on many levels. We have the power within us as human beings. We don't need the Federal Government. Yes, I can see how that can be scary to you and many others...but it is the truth. I swear to God it is the truth. God, or whatever force created us, wants us to love and to be free. But we are not. We as Americans are brainwashed, we live in fear, we live in hate of our fellow man, all the while Government gets rich and sends enslaves us in war and corporations to make them richer and to give them more power. This is hell. This world we live in right now is hell...but we can make it better. The first thing you must do is think.

watch this movie www.zeitgeistmovie.com and get back to me. We do not need to live in fear anymore. 2 hours for your liberty? Can you spare that? I know you can. Admit that this world is fucked up. Open your mind. Think for yourself. Love.

Peace.

[magellan]

62. You're making a lot of assumptions that are bordering on insulting

FYI I do think for myself. I'm an indy, and I looked at Ron Paul when I became aware of his 2003 floor speech 'Neo-conned'. I was compelled to research the libertarians and even queried a libertarian friend about their party's general agenda. The result was that while I agree with them on certain general principles, I vehemently disagree with the nuts and bolts of how they want to get there. I'm firmly in the progressive camp where social matters are concerned, which is a far cry from the Libertarian/Conservative "you're on your own" mentality.

That doesn't mean I don't have an open mind or don't recognize how fucked up the world is, mostly by our own doing. I'm well aware of these things, thank you. And IMO Libertarianism isn't the answer.

[magellan]

63. Another thing

The corporate elitists who control our government would never let Paul work his Libertarian magic to their detriment, if he managed to win. Same with Kucinich. Bet on it. As a country we are SCREWED until enough Americans recognize that we have no government by/for/of the people anymore, and do something drastic about it...like refusing to elect/re-elect any congress members who are beholden to and corrupted by the corporate regime.

[CrazyForKucinich]

64. Good idea...

I am now running for Congress. I'm 25 and old enough.

Thank you.

[magellan]

65. You're welcome

Good luck.

[onenote]

33. I can't believe you can say you're supporting Paul at the same time you urge people

to look at candidate's records.

You occupy a unique position. You are undoubtedly the only person in America who describes himself as very liberal and in the same breath announces their support for a candidate with a 100 percent rating from the John Birch Society.

Congratulations. You've put the final nail in the coffin of the word "liberal."

[blondeatlast]

50. See you in Mold's Gym... nt

[RevCheesehead]

15. AL GORE, CAN WE DRAFT YOU NOW??

Please???

[karlrschneider]

17. I'm confident they would do more if they could. The votes simply aren't there.

We need 20 or so more in the House and at least half a dozen in the Senate. Bigger cojones would help too but the numbers are what they are.

[Individualist]

18. The wheels have already come off

They came off when elected officials decided to turn to DLC for decision making.

[Zodiak]

35. Isn't that the truth

If the Republicans are in control, we get Republican bills because DLCers vote with Republicans, elliminating the opposition.

If the Democrats are in control, we get Republican bills because DLCers refuse to vote for Democratic bills, effectively killing them. Meanwhile, they negotiate "bipartisan" bills that are really just Republican bills, and they pass easily.

Notice what never happens in this paradigm? Democratic success.

The People have no voice because we tolerate right-wingers under the false notion of a "big tent" while we leave the entire left side of the tent out in the cold. The left aren't out for themselves, you know, they are out for the People, and they are stripped of all access by design.

[progressoid]

23. Raised the bar too high? Too high for whom?

Leprechauns?
The citizens of Lilliput?
Tinkerbell?


Gaaah! :banghead:

[DKRC]

34. Bellycrawlin bootlickers

Who else would think the bar too high?

:grr:

[Zodiak]

39. That is the worst part

They said they heard the people loud and clear and then come to the wrong conclusion.

Hey Reid, the people are pissed because you capitulated, not because you didn't capitulate enough.

Completley incompetent leadership, and don't tell me this is a "mistake". These people rake in millions of dollars and hire themselves a slew of experts, advisors, and staffers. The only way Reid cannot be hearing what the American people are telling him is if he is not listening.

That is unacceptable by the leadership of any party in a tiny little country, much less the richest most technological society in the world. I REFUSE to believe this incompetence is anything but by design.

I will never again vote for a quisling. I will not hang my head in shame knowing that I voted for a person who betrayed his party, his people, and his country by sucking up to this fascist, warmongering, criminal dictator for political expediency. You want my vote? You earn it.

[DKRC]

60. Well said.

:toast:

[Solly Mack]

24. America is powerless to rid itself of a war criminal executive

Try that statement on for size

America is powerless to rid itself of a war criminal executive

OR....?????

America doesn't want to rid itself of a war criminal executive?


OR...???

America wants to pretend it doesn't have a war criminal executive?


Or...????????

What?



America tortures. Torture that was - and continues to be - sanctioned by the office of the President.


Yet the "rule of law" nation doesn't seem to have a law that allows for the arrest a war criminal President.

Because some people a long time ago foolishly thought Congress would do its job and prevent such a President from remaining in office.

[Supersedeas]

25. chilling....America has no where to turn.

[MindPilot]

27. Come September, let's see if they finally decide to USE that powder.

It should still be really dry.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. New Congressional Dem theme song, "There'll Be Pie in the Sky When You Die".

Or, "Tomorrow".

Or, "Don't Stop WAITING for Tomorrow"

[Vinca]

29. It's terrifying to think the milque-toast Democrats in Congress

could piss the electorate off so badly the pendulum will swing back again and we'll wind up in continuing Republican hell. I sure hope they've got some tricks up their sleeves for September.

[MindPilot]

31. Yeah, and handing the Republicans the silver-platter opportunity

to run on stopping the war because the Democrats couldn't

[RogueSpirit]

30. I just don't understand...

The Democratic Leadership took the house and the senate, yet seem to be spinning their wheels. What's going on here? Why is nothing getting done?

[moondust]

43. Not enough votes to override a veto.

It takes 67 votes in the Senate to override a veto. Not likely to happen before the next election.

It's that simple but the MSM prefers not to talk about this underlying fact too much. They'd rather beat up on the Democrats.

Of course getting nothing done is far better than watching Repukes destroy the world for fun and profit!

[RogueSpirit]

45. Right, but the outrage of multiple veto's

would create some momentum for the next election and land more seats. Face it, if they continually block or veto bills with good plans in it, it will ignite outrage that will ripple all the way to the voting booth, right?

[moondust]

52. Let's hope so.

Although the recent drop in poll numbers for Congress suggests that the public may not fully understand that a simple majority in the Senate and House is not necessarily enough to make anything happen. So whether or not voters would act on "the outrage of multiple vetos" is anybody's guess.

[Hubert Flottz]

38. How about a no confidence vote on Harry and Nancy IF...

If they stay the course past September?

[pacalo]

42. Let them feel the wrath -- they deserve it.

As for the Republicans & Independents who voted for the most impeachable "president" in our lifetime, why don't they direct that indignancy toward their rubber-stamping congresspeople? Why are their represenatives still in lock-step with the continuing disaster?

I'd vote for a Democrat over a Republican, no matter what the position is, after what I've learned over the past 6-1/2 years.

[DKRC]

53. Here are the congresscritters I'm backing

Progressive Caucus Member List

Co-Chairs
Hon. Lynn Woolsey
Hon. Barbara Lee

Vice Chairs
Hon. Diane Watson
Hon. Raul Grijalva
Hon. Emanuel Cleaver
Hon. Hilda Solis
Hon. Mazie Hirono
Hon. Phil Hare

Senate Members
Hon. Bernie Sanders

House Members
Hon. Neil Abercrombie
Hon. Tammy Baldwin
Hon. Xavier Becerra
Hon. Madeleine Bordallo
Hon. Robert Brady
Hon. Corrine Brown
Hon. Michael Capuano
Hon. Julia Carson
Hon. Donna Christensen
Hon. Yvette Clarke
Hon. William “Lacy” Clay
Hon. Steve Cohen
Hon. John Conyers
Hon. Elijah Cummings
Hon. Danny Davis
Hon. Peter DeFazio
Hon. Rosa DeLauro
Hon. Keith Ellison
Hon. Sam Farr
Hon. Chaka Fattah
Hon. Bob Filner
Hon. Barney Frank
Hon. Luis Gutierrez
Hon. John Hall
Hon. Maurice Hinchey
Hon. Michael Honda
Hon. Jesse Jackson, Jr.
Hon. Sheila Jackson-Lee
Hon. Eddie Bernice Johnson
Hon. Hank Johnson
Hon. Stephanie Tubbs Jones
Hon. Marcy Kaptur
Hon. Carolyn Kilpatrick
Hon. Dennis Kucinich
Hon. Tom Lantos
Hon. John Lewis
Hon. David Loebsack
Hon. Carolyn Maloney
Hon. Ed Markey
Hon. Jim McDermott
Hon. James McGovern
Hon. George Miller
Hon. Gwen Moore
Hon. Jerrold Nadler
Hon. Eleanor Holmes-Norton
Hon. John Olver
Hon. Ed Pastor
Hon. Donald Payne
Hon. Charles Rangel
Hon. Bobby Rush
Hon. Linda Sanchez
Hon. Jan Schakowsky
Hon. Jose Serrano
Hon. Louise Slaughter
Hon. Pete Stark
Hon. Bennie Thompson
Hon. John Tierney
Hon. Tom Udall
Hon. Nydia Velazquez
Hon. Maxine Waters
Hon. Mel Watt
Hon. Henry Waxman
Hon. Peter Welch

Source: http://cpc.lee.house.gov/index.cfm?ContentID=166&ParentID=0&SectionID=4&SectionTree=4&lnk=b&ItemID=164

None of my so-called representatives is on this list. I'm going to actively work against their re-election, and for a Progressive candidate challenger. Anyone who acts like I have no choice but to support their collusion with the Repukes is in for a rude awakening.

[blondeatlast]

55. Edit. self-delete. nt

[qdemn7]

66. "Ducked under the bar?"

No he didn't DUCK, he did the LIMBO under the bar.