Last I looked, it's not the GOP who've been holding hearings in Congress

[brentspeak]

At least five of Bush's Justice Department cronies have resigned so far. Hearings in both the House and the Senate every week. Bush toadies squirming under the glare of camera lights during testimony in front of Congress.

Who's responsible for all this?

Definitely not the Republicans.

So much for the "But the Democrats are the same as the Republicans, waaaagh! (Do I get paid now, or later, for posting that?)"

[mzmolly]

1. Indeed!

:toast:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Everyone wants what they want...

Immediately. If not sooner.

[ClassWarrior]

4. Makes for some great Short Attention Span Theater...

:rofl:

NGU.

[babylonsister]

11. Well, I'm still holding onto that 'rage' you recommended, T_S,

after their last disastrous vote. :hi:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

12. The Rage Resevoir never seems to run dry, does it?

Oh well, we'll always have Paxil.

[LSK]

3. hey! no democrat non-bashing will be held here

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Pay no attention to the Timothy Griffin resignation!

[William769]

5. K&R!

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

6. It's shameful that the Democrats get NO CREDIT for any-damn-thing they've done,...

,...that's actually GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY.

Yet, those assholes who have committed crimes against this country, its laws, its people, and humanity,...are still succeeding in pushing the RW-attack machine, every-damn-day!!!!

NO! The democratic party IS NOT PERFECT. So, what!!! You choose the neocon effers and their corporate-backed criminal regime, instead?

grrrr

There is no sense of gratitude for anything worthwhile, these days. We are IN the RW-attack machine, very much the bolts and screws, while pretending independence.

Okay. I've said enough.

:rant:

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

9. And here's the K-n-R the OP deserves. n/t

[William769]

10. Talking about a thread like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3324557&mesg_id=3324565

[havocmom]

19. For consideration: Check links in my sig line

You can get some great resources from other DUers. I got these handy debate helpers ;) from DUers.

[Rex]

7. Waxman and Conyers are about to 'go to town' on some GOPers.

The GOP got us HERE! I bitch about Dems, I want impeachment but ya know what? I don't see anyone BUT Dems trying to stop George Bush.

Cry all you want to GOPer lurkers, you ain't done shit but perpetuate the destruction of the country you supposedly love. Something I doubt.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Yup.

Thankfully some of us haven't lost sight of what's REAL.

K&R.

[blondeatlast]

13. I propose that we respond thusly to every post along the lines of

"But the Democrats are the same as the Republicans, ..."

My proposed response?

$1

After about 3-4 of these, I think the message will be clear.

:evilgrin:

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

14. ROTFLMOA

:rofl:

[brentspeak]

15. self-kick

:kick:

[farmboxer]

16. Without Dems we would have nothing but the usual sheep

kissing Bush's --- to the extreme! Dems are doing so much more than the fascist Republican criminals! Voting for Republicans is something the corporate media wants.

[knight_of_the_star]

17. Exactly

They've lost on some of the big battles but on the small ones that are wearing down the Bushies they've been hitting them again and again and again.

[stillcool]

18. Henry Waxman and John Conyers..

may not make the evening news..but they have filled the Congressional Records with incredible details of criminal activities. Whenever impeachment finds the table, the table will be set for a feast.

[brentspeak]

20. shameless self-kick

:kick:

[mmonk]

21. I still know people who aren't getting justice.

One was even promised she would be able to speak publicly. I don't want an Iran Contra redo for the most impeachable administration and cronies we'll live through.

[rasputin1952]

22. The Dems have outflanked bush, a direct attack against well

entrenched defense almost never works. By taking him down, one peg at a time, the destruction will be complete. It may be time consuming, but it is the only way it will work.

As the hearings expose Little Boots, a case is built in the publics eye, a case that cannot be spun. Everyone who sees, hears about the se hearings, knows that Little Boots is the one who has to eventually answer for all of the corruption, all of the ill planned gaffs this administration has placed upon the citizens of this nation.

Each day, he loses support, each day, he and his cabinet are coming closer to being neutered. This is not an immediate thing, there is more at stake here. The plan is to ensure that the whole neo-con agenda is exposed, this is the only way they'll never be allowed to have power again.

Look at the hoopla about Thompson...another 2 bit actor, shades of Reagan, that's all they have, well that and fear...a card they've played so often, they can't use it anymore.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are witnessing historical events, events that will kill off the neo-cons, and a good portion of the GOP. The hitched their horses to a wagon about to off the cliff. Out here in Nebraska, there are VERY FEW people that think bush is even OK, much less a good president. If the Heartland goes, the next GOP president will be in 2200 or so.

Sit back and enjoy the show...:)

[mmonk]

23. When people talk about their crimes at the barber shop

or the fast food restaurant or a park or people turn on their evening news and see the revelations of crimes against the constitution and the nation, I will be impressed. Until then, I'm unimpressed.

[rasputin1952]

24. You must not be visiting these places very often, because out

here, that's what's happening; and if that is happening in a NE city of 24,000, it is happening everywhere.

I travel quite a bit for my p/t employer, I get into small towns of less that 1000 in Northeast Nebraska, and when I hear farmers in coffee shops saying they wish they never voted for the clown, he's in serious trouble. To be sure, there are some who still think he's "adequate", but that # dwindles every day. Even the most hardcore R's are silent when it comes to defending him, they'd rather remain silent.

I can recall when bush first took the office...The local GOP bigwigs had a Ball in the Local Hotel, they rode the elevator, in suits and gowns, giddy as if they were going out on their first Prom. They called Clinton all kinds of names, praising bush as the savior of the nation, as I stood in the elevator w/them. Dr's, Lawyers, Dentists, Farmers, Plumbers, Electricians...they were bubbling over w/enthusiasm; the nation was going to be a haven for conservatives, paying less taxes, and making more money that they could dream of. The Clinton/Lewinsky situation was the talk of the RWer's, they joked and guffawed about how "Monica brought the D's down on their knees". They had a grand old time.

Today, when I discuss some of what is happening now in small shops, in the parks, on line at the store, no one talks up bush, those that support him still, are silent, too proud to accept the horrible mistake they made, but at the same time having to face reality they brought upon the nation. They've gone so far, on occasion, to blame bush for 9-11, saying that if he was aware of the threat, and did nothing, he is liable...to me that is quite the change of heart.

As bodies have arrived in NE from Iraq, and the funerals become almost the norm, people are getting more and more angry. It was one thing when a soldier from Chicago, NY or LA died, "it was the price paid for democracy", when that price started being paid by Nebraskans, they suddenly decided this war was not a good idea. It works that way in every war, but as the toll rises, and no end is in sight, or realistic goal that can be obtained in Iraq, support is virtually gone. What is carrying bush in NE, as small as that support really is, is misplaced pride, and refusing to accept that by helping to put bush in office, they have helped to destroy a great nation. Hard to accept such things, easier by far to remain silent, and just hope things will change.

Go out into barbershops, fast food joints, local stores; start a discussion about bush, not a confrontation, but ask a few innocuous questions. You will find that people are willing to talk, they will be cautious, but if you are adept at conversational tactics, you will see that bush is probably one of the most talked about people in the community, and very little of that talk is positive. People are pissed.

:)

[mmonk]

27. We need to go by the constitutional remedy.

[rasputin1952]

28. We are...something the R's haven't done. There is more in

The Constitution than impeachment. Processes begun in Congress are tearing down this administration.

Impeachment w/o conviction is an act of futility. Exposure through investigation has put the bush administration on a precarious footing. Gonzo has been neutered, a corrupt Justice Dept is falling apart as people, leaving before they get caught up in the investigations. Success has come in other areas as well.

Think long term, we are witnessing the destruction of the neo-con agenda, not bu coup, but through the law they thought didn't apply to them. Pelosi is calculating, the neo-cons will never again hold power in our nation, and for this, I Thank her. Under her tutelage, she's making sure the roots get torn out.

[bigtree]

32. well said. in the other posts too.

:kick:

[mmonk]

34. There's more in the constitution than impeachment, but impeachment is the only one remedy

in the constitution for crimes against it. Legislating is writing laws. Not a protection to the constitution. Hearings are not impeachment, just investigations.

[bigtree]

35. they can also press for an outside investigation and prosecution

Impeachment's ultimate 'remedy' is removal from office. An actual prosecution in a court of law would carry more weight than the judgment of a group of politicians. And, in this Congress, that judgment is weighted against conviction by the lack of a super-majority of Democrats.

[mmonk]

36. Where is the statutory law and it's remedy in the criminal code

for things like ignoring laws through signing statements or lying the nation into war?

[bigtree]

37. well, with the courts and signing statements it's not so much that they are issued

but how much the court recognizes them in determining if the overriding law they intended to amend was broken by the administration. The constitutional problem arises when the President executes, or fails to execute, a statute.

On the question of lying to get us into the Iraq 'war', that would be covered by the statutes which govern the conditions in which a war is legal under international law. Also there's the matter of lying to Congress and congressional committees:

U.S. Code as of: 01/19/04
Section 1001. Statements or entries generally

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any
matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or
judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly
and willfully -
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or
device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent
statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the
same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent
statement or entry;

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5
years, or both.
(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to a party to a judicial
proceeding, or that party's counsel, for statements,
representations, writings or documents submitted by such party or
counsel to a judge or magistrate in that proceeding.
(c) With respect to any matter within the jurisdiction of the
legislative branch, subsection (a) shall apply only to -
(1) administrative matters, including a claim for payment, a
matter related to the procurement of property or services,
personnel or employment practices, or support services, or a
document required by law, rule, or regulation to be submitted to
the Congress or any office or officer within the legislative
branch; or
(2) any investigation or review, conducted pursuant to the
authority of any committee, subcommittee, commission or office of
the Congress, consistent with applicable rules of the House or
Senate.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=18&sec=1001

[rasputin1952]

38. You've got to remember, impeachment is only a process to

bring charges against a sitting government official. Trial and conviction are the more important aspects of the entire process.

D's are well aware that they can bring Articles of Impeachment against bush on a host of charges, the majority of which implicate cheney as well. IF, (and that is a very tenuous 'if'), bush/cheney were found guilty and removed from office, by default, under the Constitution, Nancy Pelosi becomes president. I have no problem w/that, but there is not one R that would tolerate such a scenario coming to frutition...Hence, impeachment is essentially off the table.

Now, we look at what else can be done, the best option is to take away those that are propping up this administration through coercion, precisely what the House and Senate are doing. This has the advantage of putting some serious fear into the administration effectively neutering them. bush has little to no power at this point, he only has what we give him. Now I don't agree w/some of what the D's in congress have ceded to bush, but I do believe he there is a method behind the madness. There are things that have
been hatched we are not aware of. Time is on our side...as exposure of the wrongdoings are exposed, and airtight case against bush is being created. If we don't offload him as president during his time in the WH, there is an excellent possibility Congress he will be the first post-president that is charged under several Federal statutes and he can be tried and convicted as a civilian. Now THAT would be something to see...:D

[Javaman]

25. I'll just keep playing solitaire over here until someone gets convicted...

and no scooter doesn't count, he was just the stupid mouthpiece to the main source.

[Bandit]

26. But what really has changed?

Those cronies are being replaced by other cronies just as bad or worse so what really has changed? So far it has been all talk and bluster. No charges have been filed and subpoenas have been ignored without accounting. I know how desperate some here are to defend the Democrats but you need more than just show case hearings. You need accountability.. It ain't happening..

[Nikki Stone1]

29. For the first time since 2000, there is some oversight. That's what has changed

If Darth Cheney is running for cover by reinterpreting his role as VP just to get out of being examined, then the Dems are doing something right.

[rasputin1952]

40. It is happening, but it takes time. Each time one of these

individuals is brought before congress, the case gets stronger against bush and cheney. You want something that cannot be just passed over, you want proof, indispuatble proof, and this is a way to get it.

Just jumping up and demanding heads is what the R's do, and they get nowhere. The Clinton impeachment soured many to the process. It was seen as a sham, and w/o conviction, (highly improbable because of the Senate #'s), the process will be viewed as ridiculous as the Clinton impeachment. We get nothing, we don't win.

By dismantling the cabal, brick by brick, wall by wall, we ensure that these people go down. Many have jumped ship, we've heard of the bigger names, but others are bailing and being forced out, the foot soldiers that do the damage. Even cheney is on the run, trying now to distance himself by "re-defining" the VP role. If he had kept w/the original role as defined by the Constitution, waiting in the wings, and going to State funerals, he'd be seen as fine; but by hisown hubris, he's created the situation that can have some pretty serious ramifications.

Time...time is our best ally. Storming the Bastille is a great way to make changes, but you wind up w/the likes of the Reign of Terror....that, is not a good option.

[bigtree]

30. wish I could still recommend this

very important and relevant point, brentspeak

:kick:

[MiniMe]

31. Not to mention the shameful "I don't remember" virus that is going around

It is really contagious. I think they are naming it I-dont-remember-itis

[TheWatcher]

33. I'll pay whatever medical bill you get from it.

Your arms must be out of their sockets from that reach. :)

[BuyingThyme]

39. Another fake thread with another fake quote.

Dishonesty sells.

[brentspeak]

41. more self-kick

:kick:

[ellisonz]

42. But but I want it now!

<snark>