Truth about Compact Fluorescent Bulbs - Debunk The Right Wing Myth

[Ioo]

I have had a right wing friend spout some bullsh*t about CFL's are not helping anyone... I have also read it on a few right blogs and global-climate change decent websites

Their argument: Well CFL Bulbs contain mercury and is really bad for the environment, so there is no reason to use them.

FACT: CFL's do contain about 4 mg of Mercury.

FACT: To generate the electricity to run JUST an average incandescent bulb over it's life time the power plant will make 10 mg of mercury.

FACT: The same amount of mercury created by the power plant to run the CFL is 2.4 mgs

So here is what you know, even if you tossed the CFL Bulb in the trash (a NO NO!) when blew out, it would have added 6.4 mg of mercury to the environment, 3.6 mg less than the incandescent. This does not take into account that the CFL lasts twice as long as its incandescent counterpart.

In the life of one CFL you get 6.4 mg of mercury to the near 20 mg of incandescent (2 incandescent x 10 mg)

Now, if you recycle the CFL, vs throw it out you have 2.4 mgs on mercury into the environment vs near 20.

So next time your right-wing whatever give you this bull crap about how CFL are ruining the environment, tell them this :)

[aquart]

1. How do you deal with the Made in China argument?

[Deja Q]

3. I can't answer for him, but

everything seems to be made in China.

I look for known brands and when there are two of the same brand, same wattage, but one says "8000 hours" and the other "5000 hours", I spend the extra money and go for the extra hours.

What we should be doing is asking GE to consider make them in America.

[Ioo]

4. Everything is made in China, We can not make anything in the USA anymore...

Sad but true. We can not even make food anymore.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. I know you mean well, and only expressing a thought but your statement is so much bullshit

Please, PLEASE have a look at the Thomas Register;

http://www.thomasnet.com/

We can not make anything in the USA anymore

Tell that to the employees of the 167 DIFFERENT COMPANIES that make brushless, DC motors in this country from the list of 213 different motor types found in the "Machinery" section on this page alone;
http://www.thomasnet.com/browse/machinery-tools-supplies/engines-motors/motors-1.html

I don't mean to jump down your throat or anything but the idea that nothing is made in the US anymore is complete horse shit.

There was a story in the WSJ today talking about the shortage of cranes in the world. The best cranes on the planet are built right here in the USA and if you had bought Manitowoc stock 2 years ago, your money would have TRIPLED. Their sold out order book extends for at least 2 years.

We can't make anything here anymore?

BULLSHIT

[Fierce]

30. Except for CF bulbs, apparently.

http://www.lightsofamerica.com/products.htm

Do a little research. The people who make stuff in America will thank you.

[RB TexLa]

11. That's just their racism, saying it's made in China. They don't want Asians being paid for

something.

[Raskolnik]

18. Or, someone might not like supporting slavery. n/t

[IndyOp]

21. I would much rather buy things bought in the U.S. than in China

because, right now, the balance of trade is obviously extremely out-of-whack and U.S. employees are without jobs. It is not racist to say that I want U.S. employees paid good wages and do not want multi-national corporations pocketing the huge profits made from paying Chinese workers slave wages and U.S. citizens paid nothing at all.

This issue is not racist - it is just the understanding that there is no such thing as a "service sector economy" -- we can't all go about servicing each other and have no manufacturing sector and maintain a healthy economy. We need to create new green manufacturing here in the U.S. and buy U.S. products.

[skids]

12. Just where do they think incandescent bulbs are made? n/t

[Fierce]

29. Show them this!

http://www.lightsofamerica.com/products.htm

CFs made in USA!

[ThomWV]

34. Easy - Outlaw importing light bulbs

If you think that makes sense ....

[Deja Q]

2. This is, by far, the most important thread posted on DU this week.

And I don't fathom that changing.

K&R

I hope everyone else K's & R's it too.


(Though I've been using fluorescents long before they became a cultural fad -- 1997. I use 9 bulbs total, not all the time as there's nothing wrong with letting in daylight, and have only had to replace FOUR bulbs over the last decade.)

I also switched from a heavy, heat generating 27" CRT to a thin, light, 32" LCD that uses 1/3rd the energy. Of course, I could always buy and use two more of the same LCD sets but WHY? The net result is 0 energy savings... it's a simple enough equation, if energy conservation truly is important...

[IChing]

5. Agreed the whole argument against is dated and erroneous now

I'm tired of these threads where I have to be their research monkey
to debunk blatant propaganda. I nominated this tread also.

[kurth]

6. What to Do if a Fluorescent Light Bulb Breaks

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/mercury-fluorescent-lights.shtml

[blondeatlast]

13. The woman pictured in that article looks oddly familiar.

I swear I've seen her in a similar propaganda stunt photo before.

Anyone else see the photo and think the same thing?

[Warpy]

7. lasts twice as long?

I have some 11 year old CFLs that are still going strong.

The reason I started to swap over when incandescent bulbs started to blow was that I hated climbing ladders and replacing bulbs frequently. The energy saving has been dramatic since I've replaced all of them except 2 in fixtures that won't accept them.

[Gregorian]

10. OK, that would make my post obsolete.

My experience with CFL's is that they are much shorter lived than stated. I've had dozens of them last a very short period of time.

Once we start going up in lifetime, my post below takes on less significance. Maybe. The fact that they have integrated circuits in them puts them in a very different category than filament bulbs.

Since I've only used two different brands of CFL's, and you claim to have some that are a decade old, I am inclined to divorce my opinion on needing further studies to prove the ecologic value of them.

Thanks.

[Ioo]

16. Do you have them on dimmers? I have 5 in the house for 5 years...

never had to replace one. One of then is on 24/7 for the last 3 years and still working strong...

You can not have most of them on dimmers, that fries them fast! You have to have a special dimmer for FL bulbs...

[Gregorian]

19. No dimmer.

Actually, leaving a light on all of the time extends the lifetime. It's thermal variations that kill these things.

Maybe I had a bad group of lights. Mine were terribly short lived.

[ContraBass Black]

24. Odd, my father has found that his do not last longer.

What brand do you use?

[Warpy]

27. Costco's finest

Kirtland, I believe. The 11 year old one was bought at Wally World.

[ContraBass Black]

28. He uses the Costco Brand, Kirkland Signature, as well.

They die after a year, almost to the day. He wasn't sure of it himself until he started writing the installation dates on them.

I have one, and have been using it for four years.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

33. one of my puppies sleeps better (He's an abused rescue dog

and wimpers in complete darkness, even 5 yrs later) with a light on. I have had a 40 watt CF going the entire time, and not even a flicker.

[kestrel91316]

8. Don't forget the energy savings by not having to run the AC as much

to compensate for all the heat given off by incandescents. In places where it gets really hot and the AC has to run a lot, this is also a consideration in favor of CFLs.

[kineneb]

17. that's why I use them

I jolly well don't want to pay Pacific Gas & Electric Co. anymore than I have to, to run the AC. (And before anyone makes comments: Hubby is a dialysis patient and is unable to deal with temperature extremes, so the AC is a medical requirement. If it were just me, it wouldn't be used nearly as much.)

Incandescents are hot! Just try touching one that is on. I have converted most of our lights to various forms of CF lights, and will continue to do so as needed. I have been using them for years, and they really do last a long time. So the waste stream problem may be moot, since I have thrown so few in the recycle. They seem to save resources in the long run.

[Gregorian]

9. I'm not convinced.

As for mercury, you are probably correct. But CFL's contain integrated circuits, among other components. Those require hydroflouric acids and arsenic, and a myriad of other chemicals. And energy. Compare that to a tungsten filament.

My experience with CFL's is that their lifetime is significantly less than stated.

Is anyone actually recycling these CFL's. I doubt it.

There is more to this argument than I've seen addressed. I want a complete study done on these bulbs before I am convinced they have an actual advantage over filament bulbs.

I'm not buying anything until a complete study is done. It doesn't pass my smell test. Not yet, at least.

[JDPriestly]

14. I have never had to recycle one.

How long a bulb lasts in terms of months/years/days may depend on how much you use a specific bulb. So far ours have lasted a long time. The bulb quality might be a factor also. Interesting discussion.

If I have to get rid of a bulb in the future, I'll know to recycle it.

[Ioo]

15. Not probably - I am correct. As for the other stuff

the circuit board in the CFL is the size of a nickel, and given that there is a circuit board in everything out there, I think there is one is bread now. We throw out PC trash by the tons, CFL is the least of our issues on that front.

No offense, what you are doing is right out of the right wing playbook, find one minor thing and wholly dismissing the entire argument. This is the same thing Bill O'Falafal does, "I do not believe in global warming because it snowed in Boston last year."

There is no need for a study, because it is done, and all the people with all the degrees in the world say that CFL are far better over all for the world than the old standby. It is so shown to be better off that the EU us about to kill the old bulb, as well as a few states in the USA...

[Gregorian]

20. I'm not playing by anybody's book but my own.

I'm just not jumping on the CFL bandwagon. I see a bulb with more complexity. And that has significant implications. Shipping of parts, disposal, energy required to manufacture.

I'm not saying CFL bulbs are not the way to go. I just don't jump on something because someone says it's the way to go.

To be honest, there are many more energy intensive things we could be using our time on. If people just consolidated their driving, we'd be far better off than changing light bulbs. But that is another topic.

[Ioo]

22. Do both - it does not have to be one or the other...

"If people just consolidated their driving, we'd be far better off than changing light bulbs. But that is another topic"

Do both, should we not change our bulbs and how we drive at the same time. Please do not be mad, but the logic you are using is another playbook call, "I do not think we should worry about X until we get Y under control." In fact one that we hear all the time that is the exact same logic as you are using here is "Why should the United States do anything about CO2 if India and China are not going to do anything"

Again, please do not get me wrong, but these are the very spin that the other side uses to do nothing. I think we can be more intellectually honest that the other side.

blessed be!

[robinlynne]

25. well that makes one. person.

[skids]

26. As far as the energy goes...

CFLs take less energy to manufacture than the equivalent number of incandescent bulbs. IIRC it was about a half as much energy. All their electrical components are of the type that has long since become efficiently mass produced.

As far as recycling goes, the dump in my town takes them on special days, and no we don't just throw them in the trash. We only have to deal with it once every three years or so since so few of them break, we just shove them in a drawer until we have enough together to justify the trouble.

Complete studies have been done on CFL (called "life cycle assessments".) They beat incandescents hands down. They even cost less energy to ship from China than the incandescents cost to ship from China. You can pretend such studies don't exist, but they do.

http://www.environmentaloncology.org/documents/HealthChoiceNL.pdf (PDF link. See page 10)

Note that we all will be using LEDs instead in less than a decade anyway, so it is likely if you were to start using them now, you'd end up replacing maybe one or two before you bought your first LED bulb and started to phase the CFLs out.

[rucky]

31. We have a few years before we see a bunch of them needing recycling...

and that's something I didn't know.

We recycle print cartridges now, i see a pretty easy fix to this one, too.

Not sure what you're looking for with the complete study. It's pretty established that flourescent uses less wattage. But I barely know how to screw in a light bulb, much less anything about how they're made.

[donheld]

32. Funny thing about this subject is

My fundimentalist mother who is the kind that anything Al Gore says she believes the opposite, but she's used these bulbs for several years now. She says she likes there light better. I don't bother to tell her Mr Gore would be thrilled or she'd change.

[CrispyQ]

35. I have some Phillips CF bulbs &

they put out a very yellow light. I'm not to thrilled with them. I will try some other brands to see if I can find one that puts out more of a white light & dontate my current ones to the thrift shop.

[BrklynLiberal]

36. Thank you. Will be sharing this info...

[David Zephyr]

37. We put them in every fixture in our home in Palm Springs.

And now we are doing it with our home here in L.A.