Is this too "over the top"? Bash a Bush

[Ghost in the Machine]

http://www.bash-a-bush.com/dc/dcboard.php

I get bored sometimes...

[noamnety]

1. I predict a whole lot of misogynistic shit there,

and I see you already got started with your forum topic names. brilliant. :eyes:

[Ghost in the Machine]

2. So you *support* Bush?

Is that what I'm supposed to take from your reply?

Where's the "misogynistic shit" as you so eloquently put it? Care to elaborate?

[noamnety]

7. Why would you get that from my reply?

Are you under the impression that people who oppose misogyny support Bush?
Does he have some great feminist appeal that I am unaware of?

"Jenna (where's my panties) Bush?" <-- so this is a forum where the administrator endorses bashing women from the opposing party based on the whole "she's a slut hahaha" mentality?

If you honestly can't figure out why I would write such a thing, then take a peek at the top post in my journal. This isn't a liberal vs. conservative issue.

[Goblinmonger]

12. Couple things

First, it is an allusion to the movie. It's "Jenna (Dude, where's my panties) Bush" and not "Jenna (where's my panties) Bush."

Second, you are aware of the shot of her where she is pantyless. Each of the forum names refers to that for which they are infamous. Her's happens to be a crotch shot. Bummer for her. Doesn't mean it never happened.

[noamnety]

13. It's how you're encouraging people to define her.

Working to create and spread that meme. Is that part of your problem with her? That she went out without underwear?

Meanwhile those on the other side are doing the same with Kerry's daughter for wearing that dress that turned see-through in the photographers' flashes. Are those really the sort of people you want to use as role models?

It's a funny thing, usually the people who are quickest to condemn women for not appropriately hiding their sexuality are also the strongest supporters of pornographers' rights. Just a hunch here - if you've ever said anything about porn one way or another here I've missed it, but what I see in general as a trend is that people will point to Spears or Paris or the bush twins and call them sluts and degrade them over this sort of nonsense, and then turn around and argue that porn isn't degrading to women - it's empowering.

The message seems to be it empowers women only if the men have paid to consume it. Otherwise it's degrading, and we should do a virtual stoning of those women. Just let them be. Whether or not she wore underwear on a particular night actually ISN'T your business. I know that's a hard concept to grasp, because we are raised to think we are all part owners of women's bodies and thus have the right to control what they do or don't do with them, but really, this is not something that affects you or anyone else. Let it go.

There is a special kind of hatred reserved for women who speak out. It's ugly to witness on DU, and I witness it every day here - as I do on nearly every blog I visit, with a few notable exceptions - and it doesn't matter whether those blogs are political in nature, or tied to graphic design ... it just doesn't matter. It targets women who are republicans, who are democrats, who are spouses, and pundits and independents. It ties hatred to every aspect of their physical female bodies, from Laura Bush to Janet Reno to Chelsea Clinton to Ann Coulter. ... when women speak out, they are allowed their 15 minutes of fame, MAYBE, or maybe not, maybe they hold a sign at a protest for 5 minutes, and then they are accused of being a whore - and their sexuality is attacked ...

Just let it go. It makes you a smaller person.

[Goblinmonger]

14. So where is the outrage from you

when people define W as a moron (certainly there are implications to societal treatment of the mentally handicapped) or the Bush twins drunken habits (certainly we shouldn't define an alcoholic by just that).

What's my problem with Jenna? She is the daughter of the president and has absolutely no concept of how to handle herself in public. She is an over-priviledged little shit who has no concept of what she has. She can't take any time out of her party-fest to actually act like the daughter of the leader of the United States; instead she is a walking fucking joke for so many reasons. When people see her, they think of the US and that is my country and that is what pisses me off. I don't care if it is her underage drinking exploits, her yawning at the inaugeration, her of-age public drunkenness, her pantyless escapades, or any other of the moronic shit she does on a daily basis. And I would have the same problems if she had a penis.

And off of the Jenna topic into a more general concept. I don't claim ownership of a woman's body. Wear panties or don't; I don't give a shit. But it seems kind of harsh to claim that I am patriarchal because of Spears or Paris. They go out of their way to get photographed without underwear. They KNOW it will increase their exposure (pun intended). They publically act like whores because that is what makes them famous. And then, when someone indicates that they are whores, it is THAT person that is the oppressor? Paris does the purposeful crotch shot, puts out a sex tape, brags about her oral sex prowess on Simple Life and then acts all hurt and shit when Sarah Silverman basically calls her a slut at the MTV Movie Awards. That's not patriarchy; that's not "claiming ownership of her body"; that's brought on by her and the way that SHE has defined HERSELF. People like Paris are called a whore not because she is "speaking out" but because she is a whore.

[noamnety]

15. You are using bigoted speech here

according to DU rules.

That should give you pause. I doubt it will, but it should. The words you are using are defined as sexist and bigoted by this community as a whole, not just by me.

While specific words are not automatically forbidden, members should avoid using racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise bigoted terminology. This includes gender-specific terms such as ... "whore," .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[Goblinmonger]

22. That's your whole response?

You have nothing of substance to say about the points of contention but just point to the rules. Alert on me, then. But at least make some response to the points being made.

And reread the rule. It specifically says that "specific words are not automatically forbidden" and that some should be avoided. Which would indicate that there is context involved. See, YOU used the word "whore" in your post, too. Should you be alerted on? No. I used it to prove a point. I didn't say your argument was stupid because you are just a dumb whore. THAT would be bigoted.

But just sit back and be smug because you caught me using a naughty word (one you "used" too) and don't actually further the argumentation.

[noamnety]

27. When your bigoted speech is removed

we can discuss other issues.

CALLING a woman a whore is not the same as quoting rules as to WHY calling a woman a whore is unacceptable here.

If you start calling people N*****'s, you won't get a response out of me to any other points you are trying to make either. I summarily dismiss thoughts expressed in bigoted terms as being without merit.

I suggest looking inward, and asking yourself why, when the community says "this is bigotry" you feel the need to defend it.

My original assessment of your forum remains, and I am disappointed to see the decision to demean women based on their sexuality is deliberate, not just an unexamined joke. A site run by an administrator who embraces misogynistic speech should be much fun for all. Enjoy.

[Goblinmonger]

30. So if you alerted on me

and my post is not deleted, will you also admit that you are wrong?

[Ghost in the Machine]

16. "This isn't a liberal vs. conservative issue."

This isn't a men vs. women issue either. It's very simple, quite honestly. I wasn't even going to respond to you, as I remember you from another post where you proved yourself nothing but a tool with an agenda. I see you chose to snip PART of something so it would fit your agenda (again) and your desire to start a flame fest. Sorry, but I'm not playing your game, I already know you for who and what you are.

"Jenna (where's my panties) Bush?" <-- so this is a forum where the administrator endorses bashing women from the opposing party based on the whole "she's a slut hahaha" mentality?"

Where did I ever call her a slut?? I don't see it, do you? Maybe you missed the premier of her "beaver shot", made so famous by Sharon Stone and imitated by these wannabe celebs? I'm merely pointing out the hypocracy of the "Republican Family Values". Speaking of which, do you have a problem with this site: http://www.republicansexoffenders.com ? My guess would be "probably not", since it's all men listed. I'll await your reply. Until then, have a nice day and good luck with your agenda.

[Bucky]

17. While I never pass up a legit chance to make fun of the Bushes...

That infamous "beaver shot" was of her quickly changing clothes while on the beach. I know damn few people who haven't tried to do that once or twice in their lives. She just had the bad luck of being pursued by paparazzis while doing that.

I don't know about misogynist, but using the incident as a way of bashing the Bushes is certainly petty.

[Ghost in the Machine]

21. I can see your point about the changing at the beach, and see it as a valid point,

however, she also knows that she is a target of the papparazzi and that they follow her just for stuff like this. There's a vicious little circle in this also.

First off, reporters and photographers literally hound some celebrities and public figures. Should this mean that said celeb/public figue should have to change their lives and try to be someone that they're not, just because people with cameras follow them? They shouldn't have to, but common sense dictates that they should, or at least be aware that they are always waiting to catch you at your worst. Then again, if you're not two faced or promoting one agenda while living totally opposite of that agenda, you need to be exposed. If you have nothing to hide, enjoy the free publicity, it's what's paying your bills.

Did Jenna Bush ask for publicity just because she is the pResident's daughter? I would say no, but she sure has made use of said publicity, just sometimes not to her best advantage. She certainly didn't mind flipping off photogs from the Presidental Limo, did she? Only Jenna's actions have dictated how she is viewed by people, nothing more, nothing less.





Picture thanks to our old pal Jerky from the Daily Dirt

[uppityperson]

25. She's probably rubbing not her vagina but her clitoris and labia

Anatomically wrong things bother me. Other than that, it is pretty funny as satire.

[Bucky]

31. Re: "she also knows that she is a target of the papparazzi"

Bitch was just askin' for it, eh? Right, gotcha.
.

[Ghost in the Machine]

32. That's not what I said at all and you know it.

What I meant was that by knowing she's a highly sought target, she should KNOW that these people are following her everywhere and she should consider that before doing something dumb. Just keep it in your mind that they're always watching you, and adjust your actions accordingly. Face it, we've all done something dumb at one point or another in our lives, but we don't have the media hounds chasing us everywhere.

[silverojo]

5. This is rich

May I ask how you see this as misogynistic, when the Bush men are being bashed, as well? :eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. Talk about over the top.

:rofl:

[uppityperson]

3. Yes. "George P. (little brown one) Bush "? Yes.

Funny though.

[Ghost in the Machine]

4. did you read this?

According to an 18 April 2000 article in the New York Times, "In 1988, when he was 12, George P. was an unwitting participant in a short-lived hullabaloo about the way his grandfather, then the vice president, introduced him and his two Mexican-American siblings to President Reagan. Vice President Bush affectionately called them 'the little brown ones.'"

[silverojo]

6. You must remember about overly PC people

They never let facts get in the way of their whining.

[noamnety]

8. political correctness

usually this refers to the "rights" of a dominant group to use sexist or racist language against a group with less privilege without having to be deal with the burden of hearing objections to that sexism or racism.

It relies on what they view as a basic tenet of "free speech" - that the dominant group should be allowed to be as racist or sexist as they like, openly, and that isn't offensive, but it is offensive when the oppressed group uses their free speech to oppose it.

It's a tool to assign blame to those who are the targets of sexist or racist speech, rather than assigning responsibility to those who spoke the offensive words. Not surprisingly, then, "that term was invented by right-wingers to fight back against things like women's studies, African American studies, and other non-white, non-male, non-imperial challenges to a racist, Eurocentric, and patriarchal canon." http://stangoff.com/?p=418

An excellent essay on why it is that when it's pointed out to a person that they are being sexist and/or racist, they need to shift all blame to the person pointing this out: http://www.kaichang.net/2006/11/the_sloppy_prop.html

In other circles I hang with, standing up against sexism and racism is considered a good thing, it's considered everyone's obligation.
I am perpetually thrown for a loop when the folks on DU consider it a good thing and everyone's obligation to support their right to be sexist and racist, and feel the need to mock those who speak out against it.

[Bucky]

18. People today gripe about "political correctness" whenever they're called out for being rude

But having good manners and showing respect for other people isn't really "Political Correctness." If you can't call something for what it really is for fear of offending someone, that might be political correctness. But having good manners is really just having good manners.

Ninety percent of people who bitch about the "PC police" simply don't have 'em.

[Madspirit]

19. Thank-you Bucky

I think "PC" is something to strive for not be ashamed of. ...and when pigs act like pigs and are called on it, they always whine about the PC police as though being politically correct is a bad thing. I think it's what we should all strive for.

Also, when Rush Limbaugh insulted Chelsey, even the Republicans came down on him. I thought, traditionally, WE LEAVE THE FUCKING KIDS OUT OF IT. It's the right thing to do. I would hate to be derided or dismissed because of my father's politics.

...and it is so sexist to refer to a paparazzi shot that should have gotten the paparazzi shot. That is so wrong.

The sexism here is vomit-worthy.
Lee

[noamnety]

28. It's not the rudeness exactly.

I tend to be pretty blunt. I have one heck of a gutter mouth, which I attribute to all those years having to hold my own in an otherwise all-male army unit. :)

I do have a problem with rudeness when it's used to uphold white male supremacy. That's the problem with the folks whining about having to not be sexist and racist - what they are really whining about when they complain about "PC Police" is that they aren't being left alone to enforce white male supremacy in peace.

[uppityperson]

10. Didn't notice that when I poted before. I thought he meant more of a personal

little brown man. Then I noticed there were posts and read that. You must remember that sometimes people miss things and calling them names instead of just pointing out what they missed tells a lot about the name caller.

[uppityperson]

9. I read that after I posted. I thought you meant another thing.

mrbush's personal little bit. I read that later. Boy those people are really something. I hope someday they get back some of what they have put on others.

[gatorboy]

11. "Honketh and thou shall be flippith thy birdith"

[guitar man]

20. what??

No Neal (I didn't know they were underage hookers) Bush forum? :shrug:

[Ghost in the Machine]

24. Oh, it's still a work in progress, I just have a limit on how much I can read

about the Bush family before I puke a little bit in my own mouth and have to stop for a while.

I just searched a little bit on the subject and found no mention of underaged hookers, just the fact that he paid high priced call girls and escorts while in Thailand and Hong Kong. For myself, I, myself, want to remain factual to avoid defamation or slander, but I'm not responsible for what others think or post.

[guitar man]

26. In Thailand, generally

the higher the price, the younger the girl.

I haven't looked up the article in a while, but as I remember, his claim was that "these girls just knocked on my hotel room door and wanted to have sex" or something similar to that. Like anyone could believe he was actually that stupid :eyes:

Now, if his brother W* had said something like that...... :rofl:

[Ghost in the Machine]

29. I read where he said that. Not to defend him, but I've had this happen

to me. I used to work out of town a lot for a commercial roofing company, and it wasn't uncommon to get knocks on the door at night and it being a girl wanting to know if we "wanted a date". They weren't young or high priced though, just the local crack ho' looking for her next fix.