Car Accidents

[rbnyc]

As many of you know, I was in a life-changing car accident 4 years ago. Even before that I was very aware of each time I heard an accident being reported during a traffic update or each time I drove past an accident that there just seem to be scores of accidents every day just within a few square miles. I've always been inclined to view this as a kind of epidemic, and that inclination has increased since my recent experience.

I finally went ahead and looked up some statistics on car accidents and I just wanted to share them.

On average each year in the US: More than 6 million car accidents resulting in 3 million injuries (with more than 2 million of these injuries being permanent)

There are in excess of 40,000 deaths due to car accidents every year.

About 40% of car accident fatalities occur because of a drunken driver.
About 30% of the car accident fatalities can be attributed to driving above the speed limits.
33% are because of reckless driving that causes the car to go off the road and result in an accident.

Every 12 minutes, one person dies because of a car accident. Every 14 seconds, a car accident results in an injured victim.

For people under 30, the leading cause of death is due to being involved in a car accident.

Lynnesin's post in the Lounge about the 10 commandments of driving inspired this post. I am not religious, and am generally turned off by religious institutions and their endeavors. Although I posted favorably in that thread, I'm not really interested in defending the church or the Pope.

What I am interested in is coming up with some ideas. What can we do to improve safety on the roads and to prevent accidents?

Obviously our car-based economy and general lack of public transportation are huge factors. Still, I think it's too easy to get a drivers license and too hard to lose it. People see driving as a right, not a privilege. And people do not take driving seriously.

How would you go about decreasing accidents? Would you want stricter laws and regulations? Would you take a public awareness approach? I'd love to hear your ideas.

Thanks.

[slackmaster]

1. In general I think it should be much harder to get a license to drive

Here is what California has done in recent years to address the high rate of crashes caused by young, inexperienced drivers:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#PERMINOR

I recommend it.

Very elderly drivers cause a disproportionate amount of crashes, so recertifications are important on that end.

[rbnyc]

3. I agree about recertifications.

I think 50 hours of driving time with an adult is still not that much, though.

Thanks for posting.

:)

[BlooInBloo]

6. The young/old driver thing isn't actually symmetric, though....

... For the old folks, the question is their *ability* to drive well. For the young folks, the question is their *willingness* to drive well. No amount of "driving time with an adult" will deal with the latter question.

[Breeze54]

12. I think with youth it's called 'inexperience'

and probably showing off for friends, which would be
an 'unwillingness' to follow the rules of the road.

Driving with my son has helped him be more aware! ;)
It was required that I drive with him before he was licensed.

[Warpy]

11. I still think raising the driving age and lowering the drinking age

would be steps in the right direction. People who fall off their bicycles due to intoxication generally don't get to pretend that having a buzz on makes them better drivers. The road rash reminds them that they are not. Other than that, I have few ideas about what to do about the problem.

I know I get tense when some guy in a monster truck is trying to drive up my tailpipe while Mr. Putt Putt is going just under the speed limit in front of me. The natural inclination is to want Mr. Putt Putt to speed up a little so I can get away from Mr. Loser when Mr. Loser is at fault. I've been known to pull into a driveway to let Mr. Loser get ten feet ahead of where he was. Loser. I don't know what else to do about those guys.

IMO, the real reason behind road rage is overcrowding. I know I don't feel at all tense when I'm driving on an empty road or one with few other cars. It's heavy traffic driving, especially on Interstates, that gets me ready to jump out of my skin. Mr. Loser must be ready to stroke out when he's in rush hour.

Unless we want to pave over everything that has anything green on it, I doubt there is little we can do to relieve overcrowding. Unless we put Valium salt licks on the dashboard of every new vehicle, there's not a whole lot we can do about Mr. Loser, either.

Good luck to the Vatican and the Red Sox. I can imagine Mr. Loser's prayer, "Gawd, send some lightning and blast all these other sorry asses off MY road!"

[Gregorian]

2. Turn the problem around.

It's as though people can't see the forest for the trees. As though driving is something we absolutely must have. I'll admit that we've painted ourselves into a corner of dependency now. But after all we did live without the car for the last how many thousands of years?

How about less cars? How about no cars?

Our society. No, the planet, is being destroyed by the car.

I'm presently sitting here after selling my fourth property, in an attempt to find a place where there aren't cars everywhere. I can't do it. I simply cannot get away from the plague of cars and their noise.

But why did I even post this? I should know that it's a waste of typing. At best I'll get a reply stating how they feel the same way. At worst I'll get some angry post about how cars are oh so necessary.

I'm totally sick of the things. And they've destroyed society. And our health. And the planet.

[rbnyc]

5. Yeah!

That's what I meant about economy and public transportation. The real problem is there are too many drivers.

Wasn't car-pooling popular for a time? What ever happened to that? How did it become popular, and how did it become unpopular?

Anyway, since I've moved to the suburbs everyone says I'll have to get a car. But I walk to the train station and take the train to work. I walk to the store, and push my groceries home in a little cart. I'm really not having a problem.

[angstlessk]

24. I recall your accident...you had to get married from a hospital bed

or some such thing...it was really traumatic for us to read about what happened..but we were all happy to see you got married and all turned out well.

Public transportation is the answer of course..but we are addicted to highways and our individualism..not good for America.

[rbnyc]

26. That's right.

The accident was on a Thursday night and my wedding was scheduled for that Saturday. We moved the wedding to the Orthopedic Gym in the hospital and my bed was wheeled in. I made my wedding toast with my morphine drip button.

;-)

[krispos42]

4. The problem wil eventually take care of itself

Probably in the next 30 years.

Our cars will be equipped with an intelligent driving computer, localized radar, infrared cameras, and very sensitive GPS systems so that we will no longer have to drive them.

Our cars will mostly drive themselves. Accidents caused by not paying attention, drunkedness, inability to detect cars moving slower than they appear, blind spots, missed traffic signals, or distracted driving will be virtually gone.

You get in and tell the car where you want to go.

Cars will also be able to drive much faster because of this, drastically cutting down transit times and maybe even cutting down on traffic congestion.

[rbnyc]

30. Like the cars in Minority Report.

I actually thought they were pretty cool.

[krispos42]

44. Or "I, Robot" :-)

[Dogmudgeon]

7. Phase out "car culture"

Our current model of community and urban planning absolutely stinks.

Even if it takes us fifty years to change our ways, it will still make a dramatic increase every year, of some 120,000 fewer accidents each year. The overall trend of reducing traffic congestion and car dependency will inhibit traffic accidents.

A lot of damage is also done by making driving a rite of passage for teenagers. Perhaps we should pay them or give them some other incentive to delay driving.

For "... driving as a right, not a privilege", that might be a New York thing. In Pennsylvania, just about every piece of paper printed in connection with the DMV (for which my mother works) makes prominent mention that driving is a privilege which the state can revoke at will. Even many cops are trained to tell motorists they stop, "exercise your driving privilege responsibly".

It's a little big-brotherish; but cars can be dangerous things. I've been in two fairly serious accidents myself -- one was caused by a drunk teenager (no, it wasn't me; I was 28 at the time), and the other one was caused by a sleepy truck driver. Fortunately, in each accident, my injuries were minor. I am determined that there will be no third accident.

--p!

[rbnyc]

31. I'm for that.

it does go to city planning, basic infrastructure--it's a foundation problem. Very hard to change.

[DS1]

8. Limit horsepower to 160hp

It's enough. Heavy cars will accelerate like shit, and they will be phased out as people stop buying them.

[rbnyc]

9. Great idea. (nt)

[ThomWV]

10. Why not enforce speed limits with the zeal of DUIs offenses for a start.

Speed limits are a joke in this country but they put up roadblocks to stop people to see if they have been drinking. If we managed to get drunks off of the road to a great extent (that is what the MAD people will tell you is happening because of their valiant efforts) surely we could do the same thing with speeders. Same thing for reckless driving - how many idiots have you seen weaving between lanes and cutting other drivers off?

Next thing is car safety. Just look at race cars and the accidents that drivers walk away from these days as opposed to the stone age of that sport when death was common. Now days they hit walls at 200 mph and give interviews about it 20 minutes later. No one can tell me our cars can not be made much safer.

[porphyrian]

14. Law enforcement isn't really preventative, though.

Except in the area where the lights are rolling, that is. People go right back to speeding (or any other crime they're determined to commit) as soon as the cops are out of range.

Safer cars would help. I'll bet they'll call it an option and charge extra for it, though.

I think the best thing people can do is to just pay attention to what's going on around them. For some unfathomable reason, most people don't or barely do.

[ThomWV]

16. Start locking people up for 30 days for a second offense and see if they keep speeding

Like they do DUIs, in this state anyway. You come up with a second DUI in WV and you are going to go to jail for at least a couple of weeks. Get 3 of them in this state and you'll do a full year. Do the same thing with speeders and I can guarantee you there will be fewer of them out there.

[porphyrian]

18. For speeding? Come on.

Besides, we still have the death penalty, and it doesn't prevent people from murdering. Laws aren't preventative, they're punitive.

Also, speeding doesn't necessarily cause accidents, it just makes them more destructive. A slow driving idiot with a cell phone stuck to their head is far more dangerous than an aware speeder.

[LanternWaste]

22. And yet...

And yet... "About 30% of the car accident fatalities can be attributed to driving above the speed limits."

For me, I'd rather be hit by a slow-moving idiot with a cell phone than a spedding idiot with a cell phone.

[porphyrian]

36. "About 30% of the car accident fatalities can be attributed to driving above the speed limits."

Yes, the damage in a collision increases with the speed involved. I'm not refuting that, only that speed isn't necessarily causative, and that harsher laws won't change the instances of speeding much, if at all.

And I'd rather not be hit at all.

[VTMechEngr]

40. That's outrageous.

There isn't one person on this board who can say they have not exceeded the speed limit driving. Not one.

The simple fact is most people drive at the speed they feel they can handle for the road conditions. Today, many speed limits are set based on the 85 percentile rule, meaning 85 percent drive below the speed limit. Many speed limits are arbitrary, and designed by idiocy or statute without regard for the road conditions, or they are set artificially low in order to generate revenue.

And I have a question for you - In this nightmare world you dreamed up, just what do you consider speeding? 46 MPH in a 45 MPH is technically speeding, but it is unrealistic to enforce this as drivers cannot maintain that kind of accuracy while paying attention to the road ahead. The gages cannot maintain that kind of accuracy, and even the cruise control systems cannot. I drove a Dodge caravan last week for work and found that the cruise control varied by up to 5 MPH above and below the set speed based on the terrain (highway hills).

You need to rethink that nightmare.

[A HERETIC I AM]

46. I am curious where you get the idea the 85th percentile rule is what speed limits are based on

as opposed to speed limits being set by engineering surveys and conditions/capacity calculations.

I have had a drivers license since at least 1975 and i can not remember one single instance where a new section of roadway was opened with no speed limit in order to find out what speed 85% of the traffic flows at.

It is my understanding that the 85 percentile rule has to do with the safest speed in which to travel a given roadway in a given set of conditions. In other words, the safest speed to drive is that speed at which 85% of the vehicles are moving REGARDLESS of posted speed limits or conditions. If the posted speed limit is 65 and 85% of the vehicles are moving 80 mph, the safest speed is 80. Conversely, if the speed limit is 65 and 85% of the vehicles are traveling at 30 mph, the safest speed is 30.

The 85th percentile rule is not used to set speed limits. It is a rule that applies to the safest traveling speed.

[A HERETIC I AM]

47. If you want passenger cars to have the same survivability as race cars..

then your average Honda Accord would cost $75,000 or more PLUS you would have to wear 3 layers of Nomex, a helmet, a 5 point harness system and a Hans device.

Race car drivers walk away from 200 mph crashes because race cars (I'm talking Indy cars, Drag racers and NASCAR types here) are essentially hand built. To achieve the same level of survivability you would have to see increased usage of composite materials and stronger roll cages. These things are not cheap.

[flvegan]

55. Don't forget years of training and driving in a closed environment

on a track designed to funnel a disabled car away from "traffic"

[Solo_in_MD]

50. Many speed limits are incorrectly *LOW*, espcially out west in rural areas

[porphyrian]

13. People simply need to be more aware of their surroundings.

Many accidents could be avoided just by one of the drivers being more attentive to what was going on.

That can't be legislated, and shouldn't be, but it's common sense most seem to lack.

If you're driving, driving should be what you are paying the most attention to.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

15. One thing my Grandpa told me has stuck with me all these years...

"always remember you are at the wheel of a 2000 lb death machine. Act accordingly."

[rbnyc]

32. We need more Granpas to tell their Grandkids that.

People just don't think. It is an awareness issue.

[EnviroBat]

17. Lower the speed limits...

I hate to say it but the give them an inch and they'll take mile thing causes people to drive like lunatics in a brain-dead NASCAR race. The limit is 65, so Mario does 80 in heavy traffic on his way to work. These assholes don't think for a second what happens to a 2500lb vehicle at that velocity after it bounces off of the side of another vehicle that "had to change lanes". There is no more steering it. There is no more stopping it until it comes to rest against or in something. It smashes into other vehicles as it's bouncing around like a maniacal pin-ball. I have a 27 mile commute each way to work on a major freeway. I see the stupidest of the stupid, every day. Bring the speed limit down to 50 through heavily congested areas in the city limits, where people are entering and exiting the freeway's more frequently. That way 65 becomes the "New 80" which is the point the ticket gets really expensive here. Get caught for 20 over and lose you license for 3 mos. Plus the fuel usage will be reduced. I also think police should start issuing more citations for tail-gating. I just one week, I personally witnessed 3 accidents from idiots rear-ending someone after riding their ass like stink on shit.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Slow down

when they decreased the national speed limit to 55, the number of accidents and fatalaties went down.

Second, ban "dry" counties. These are counties where it is illegal to purchase alcohol. If you check statistics from these counties, you are likely to find that the number of drunk driving accidents/fatalaties increase. Why? Because the drivers go to bootleggers and tend to drink while they drive home. I lived in a "dry" county that went "wet" after a horrendous accident where a popular coach and part of the basketball team were killed by a drunk driver. Interestingly enough, after the county went "wet", the number of drunk driving incidents went down.

Third, make sure the highways are kept up and built correctly. I've had an accident and know friends who did because the roads here in Arkansas aren't maintained. And no, you can't sue the state about it. They made it a law.

Fourth, have safety checks for vehicles-and I don't mean just lights. Brakes should also be checked.

[nini]

20. We have the technology to do many things

Breathalyzers in every car - You can't start the car if you can't pass the breathalyzer test. Of course people will cheat the system in some cases, but for drunks alone it may help.

Cars need to be made to detect if someone is too close to the car in front of them based on speed (I believe Volvo already has this technology).

Cars detect the speed limit which would require some kind of sensors - would not allow a car to exceed the limit by 10mph or whatever.

Make the driving test harder to pass. Sorry, but there's far too many idiots on the road who simply do not know how to determine the amount of safe space around their car. If you can't do that - take a freaking taxi.

Too many tickets - then to hell with you. Driving is not a right it's a privilege.


I like you have permanent pains etc.. from an asshole drunk driver. I have zero tolerance for people who abuse the privilege of driving.

[rbnyc]

27. Too many automated things, like speed...

...could be dangerous. There may be a situation where you have to speed up over the limit to avoid an accident.

But I definitely agree that technology needs to continue aggressively moving in the direction of prevention.

I also agree that the driving test should be much harder to pass.

So sorry that you are also living in pain. It changes your whole life.

[nini]

39. yea.. I was a bit torn on the speeding thing

But somehow it would be nice to keep a tighter rein on it.

[Midlodemocrat]

21. I think a kid should get their driver's license along with

their diploma from high school, or their GED.

An additional two years of training wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Missy Vixen]

23. The woman that hit us at a stoplight in 1993 had had multiple accidents

prior to her rearending us at a high rate of speed. I will have back and neck problems for the rest of my life because she wanted to get wherever it was she was going 30 seconds sooner that evening.

I realize I may be flamed into the ether for this one, but more than one accident that's your fault in a calendar year -- the license is gone for a year. More than three accidents that are your fault over the course of having a license -- it's permanently gone. I'd also like to eliminate high-risk insurance for those who've had multiple DUI's and accidents that were proven to be by their negligence.

Of course, this would be impossible to enforce.

Julie

[rbnyc]

28. Over 25% of drivers involved in accidents....

...had prior accidents within 5 years.

I know a lot of chronic car crashers. I'm with you.

[CrispyQ]

25. People are never so rude & stupid as they are behind the wheel of a car.

People feel powerless in their lives. Their boss pushes them around, their spouse pushes them around, their neighbor pushes them around, there is no escape. Until they get behind the wheel of a car, where with a little pressure from their foot, they suddenly have some power. It does not matter that those on the road are not the same people who pushed them around, it's their turn to do some pushing & damn it, they are going to push hard.

There is also the anonymity that many drivers feel when they are in their cars. Bad behavior goes hand in hand with anonymity. Years ago, a local reporter did a human interest story. He stood on some of the busiest corners of our fair town & watched the drivers in their cars as they sat at traffic lights. He said that it was amazing what people did -- it was as though they had curtains on their windows & couldn't be seen. The most common faux pas? Nose picking.

[rbnyc]

29. Interesting.

I'll pick my nose anywhere, though.

[CrispyQ]

49. Glad you don't limit yourself!!!

:rofl:

[Jonathan50]

33. I'll most likely get flamed for this...

But cars mean freedom.

I doubt that any of you have any idea of how stultifying small town life was before the age of the automobile.

When the only places you can go are places you can get by walking your choices are horrendously limited.

For anyone not living near an urban center with available public transportation, try living without a car for a month.

I've lived without a car before, it's basically damned unpleasant and cuts you off from society to a greater extent than most of you would believe.

Particularly if you're like me and live in a red area in a red state and don't much mix with your immediate neighbors.

[MedleyMisty]

38. I don't think that anyone is saying that you shouldn't have a car

Just that you should drive it responsibly.

I'm surprised there's not more flaming in this thread in general. Posts accusing the posters in favor of responsible safe driving of being moralistic purity testers who judge and hate on everyone else should show up soon.

[Jonathan50]

41. One person's "responsible, safe driving" is another's moralistic purity test.

It's quite possible to drive fast under certain circumstances and still be safe.

Low speed does not automatically mean "safe".

High speed does not automatically mean "unsafe".

[Telly Savalas]

48. "Watching what the fuck you're doing" and "Not hitting things"

are not moralistic purity tests, but simple guidelines that too many assholes can't be bothered to follow.

[Jonathan50]

51. That's not what most people here think of when they talk about..

"Safe, responsible driving".

Basically they mean going slow..

[rbnyc]

56. That's why I asked if people would attack the problem...

...through regulation, or through some type of public awareness campaign. Restricting people's choices and options isn't necessarily safe.

Though I think the kind of speeding people are talking about in this thread is the thoughtless kind.

[Critters2]

42. Before the advent of the car, at least the popularity of the car,

small towns had the inter-urbans. People DID get from one place to another without cars. It was the increased use of cars that killed public transit--even in small towns.

[Breeze54]

43. "People DID get from one place to another without cars." - Yeah!!

With horses and buggy's!!! :rofl:



And they had accidents back then too! ;)

[taterguy]

34. Smarter traffic planners

My city has the lowest accident rate in the state, because the transportation department studies accident statistics and when they see a location with a higher than expected accident rate they find out what to do to make it safer.

[bigwillq]

35. Is there a link to Lynne's thread?

:shrug:

[rbnyc]

53. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=6628824&mesg_id=6628824

[Kerrytravelers]

37. I've been hit numerous times, thankfully nothing serious.

Usually just fender bumps.

The one thing they all had in common was the person was lost in their thoughts. One guy said he was on his way to marriage counseling (I felt bad for him, he was really apologetic and nice.( I was actually in a rental car when he hit me because three days prior, someone else had hit my car when they rolled through a stop sign. They, too, were thinking about other things... and on their cell phone. Then I've had the usual stop-and-go on the freeway hits from behind. I live in Los Angeles, so I do expect to get into more accidents than someone who lives in a more suburban or rural area based on pure population numbers alone.

Personally, I think there are too many distractions allowed in cars. I have read right here on DU people who on working on their laptops while driving. I don't agree with talking on your cell phone while driving, and laptops? Everyone thinks they're the greatest driver, so they're capable of this. I bet the driver who was on their cell phone thought they could talk and drive, too. Bet they never had an accident before hitting me, too.



On a totally different note, Mr kt's grandfather has had numerous accidents. He has driven on the wrong side of the freeway and hit someone head-on (thankfully everyone walked away.) He has sideswiped cars parked along the road, run lights, and driving the wrong direction on one way streets. He has received so many tickets, I can't believe there are any cops in all of Arkansas who haven't heard of him. Yet, every time he has to go to court, a member of the family begs the judge to please revoke his license. And they are constantly told that there is no legal reason to revoke it. To me, something doesn't make sense. There are medical professionals in the family who say, at 85 with tunnel vision, he is not medically capable of driving. Yet, he still has it. Several years ago, in Santa Monica, CA, there was an elderly man who had a history of poor driving who ran through a farmer's market and killed a few people. I'm waiting for the call saying Mr. kt's grandfather has killed people.

My dad, who turned 67 this year, can't believe the DMV hasn't requested he come in for a driving test. He barely drives since he's had eye surgery because his sight isn't what it use to be. Because my parents went through having to tell their own parents that they shouldn't be driving any longer, they are very open to suggestions. I had to tell my mom I think her hearing is fading. She handled it better than I probably would have. I can't imagine how hard it would be on me (since I'm the only child) if they were like Mr. kt's grandfather.

[B Calm]

45. Everybody needs to drive like they DON'T own the road. Road Rage

needs to be controlled and people need to learn to be calm when driving.

[Matsubara]

52. One thing is to NOT TAILGATE.

There is another thread where the poster actively is encouraging people to tailgate "to save gas".

Many posters have objected to it, and I even alerted on the thread for encouraging reckless behavior, but three days later it is still unlocked.

Go figure.

The number one thing, aside from being sober, is presence of mind. The driver's seat is NOT a good place to multitask. No makeup, no food, no cell phones (even hands-free can be distracting) and conversations with passengers should be kept at a minimum. There are a thousand sights and sounds on the road that the driver should be monitoring, because any number of them could be a warning of an imminent danger.

Can you imagine if airline pilots flew their planes with the lackadaisical attitude with which many of us pilot 4000 lb. hunks of steel at 70 mph with?


We'd have a lot more white-knuckle flights and a lot more corpses, that's for sure. People really need to think of driving as the enormous responsibility it is, not just a grown-up version of the "Big Wheel" you rode as a child.

[w8liftinglady]

54. at least in Texas-kids who have had driver's ed don't have to take a driving test

Just a written exam.I was shocked as both my boys traipsed out of the DPS,not knowing the feeling of having a DPS officer looking at you sternly as you tried to parallel park.no wonder these teenagers drive like shit here