Something to think about for those that dislike Hillary

[Toots]

Bill and Hillary came to Power with a Democratic Controlled Congress (for the first two years). They would have brought us National Health Care but for the Democrats in Congress that disliked Hillary. Clinton left office with a very high approval rating while those Democrats that opposed the Clintons were tossed out on their ass. We had an opportunity to have National Health Care but for Democrats...... Hillary hating Democrats...

[Kagemusha]

1. um...

...Hillary didn't help her own cause much at the time.

And I think that's the full extent of my commentary on this.

[xultar]

4. What did she do to hinder her own cause? I'd love to hear it.

[Kagemusha]

7. The Cheney Energy Task Force was only slightly more secretive.

I'm stating a fact, not trying to get into an argument. Besides, like a poster mentions below, the Republicans weren't exactly doing nothing during this period. Blaming it all on Hillary hating Democrats seems a little much to me. ...But I've probably already said far too much. Later.

[Toots]

13. The Republicans were going to oppose anything the President put forward

That is why having a Democratic Controlled Congress was important, so his initiatives could get passed. What did those democrats do? Same thing they have done for the last six years. Buckle under Republican pressure. Is that the type of Democrat you want in Power?

[Warpy]

16. Hillary caved to the insurance giants

and instead of national health, she offered national insurance company assured profits.

Yes, it would have mandated covering everyone, but the premiums would continue to escalate and people would be a lot poorer now because of them. Also, since they had to pad the bottom line somehow, bean counters would still be devoting much of their time to figuring out ways to deny care to sick people.

Her plan was a bad plan because it left the major problem in place, the for profit insurance industry.

[xultar]

2. Great post.

[cwydro]

3. Thank you.

I don't understand the animosity towards this woman.

[Missy M]

6. I don't either....

her health care was knocked down by the republicans and she was ahead of her time on it.

[Toots]

9. Knocked by Republicans but Democrats had Control

If Democrats wanted National Health Care we would have it now...They would not let a woman show them the way...

[cwydro]

18. The health care issue

is where I really began to pay attention to her. Sad, but true yes, "ahead of her time".

[Captain Hilts]

5. The RNC ran a VERY effective ad campaign against it. I know the

bastard that did it.

And, Democrats are never as collegial as Republicans. People in Washington didn't know the Clintons at all.

[TheDebbieDee]

8. You know, I think Hillary's image was one of the most notable,

if not one one of the first, victims of that Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy that she raved about on the Today Show all those many years ago.

I never really believed in the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy until I saw it at work in the debacle that followed the 2000 Selection.

But I think that a lot of people that don't even follow politics closely remember the relative peace and prosperity of the Clinton years in the Whitehouse and will think highly of Hillary.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. The health care plan was not truly a National Health Plan, as

we see in other countries. It was very complex, difficult to explain, and hard to sell, while the conservative response (both repub & dem) was "It's socialism".

Now the conservatives have the "socialist" Hillary to project on, while progressives see someone who is too prone to abandoning progressive causes in order to reach out to the conservatives.

IMO, that doesn't make for a strong candidate, regardless of what her actual record is. I'm willing to be convinced, but I'll have to see her clarify her positions and stop reaching out to those who will never support her in any case. She'll have to establish her own progressive credentials.

[Justitia]

17. I agree w/you on all points. -eom

[BoneDaddy]

11. Yes

it is all our fault. (sarcasm)

[durrrty libby]

12. The foolish pettiness and short-sighted narrow-mindedness

around here is useless and pathetic

Some of these people are scary

[JNelson6563]

14. I was all about Hillary

for the entire Clinton Admin. Loved her. Made everyone read It Takes a Village.

She boldly came out with the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy statement, had me believing she got the Big Picture.

Then I realized she thought the conspiracy was just about The Clintons. Not the take over the world thing that it really is and has been for a long time. Yep, she fell for the war thing, she really didn't know (or perhaps care) about the real VRWC, just the part that touched her/Bill.

Back then she deserved support for her efforts. Now she is on her own as far as I am concerned.

Julie

[blm]

15. Those in the WH with LEGISLATIVE experience like Gore told the Clintons that

it would be wiser to move welfare reform through the congress FIRST to thwart the GOPs line of attack against an all Dem government, and that healthcare reform would have an easier time of getting through afterwards.

I believe Gore was right. I doubt we would have lost Congress and Senate if Clinton listened to Gore and his years of experience with the legislators in office at the time.

[jellybeancurse]

19. Not voting for Hillary. Sorry.

Unless she gets on TV and says we need national health care that doesn't rely on insurance companies. Then really she brings nothing new to the table then any other politician.

and I really do not see why people get so excited about her. She has moral stances of convenience and if it wasn't for the fact she has a uterus would be no one of real consequence. The fact she considers war protesters to be "undermining the war effort" is enough to keep me from the polls.

[porphyrian]

20. Good thing she isn't our only choice.

That way we don't have to reconcile all the problems people have with her before the 2008 election.

[Lord Byron]

21. "I want health care for Americans. I'm not selling health insurance."

-Dennis Kucinich

[depakid]

22. Hillary screwed that up so badly

that it's a major argument AGAINST her candidacy. In typical Clinton fashion, she tried to pander to all of the corporate interests and came up with a "plan" so convoluted and that even people in public health couldn't understand its nuances.

Something sensible, like expanding Medicare and Medicaid would have passed, but this was doomed to fail from the outset.

And like Clinton's trade and deregulatory policies, it's made matters infinitely worse.

[SheilaT]

23. She had the audacity to

be an independent woman with a career of her own, rather than the little housewife who stayed home and baked cookies. And she was very good at her career.

I have any number of problems with her: she does not seem to have repudiated her Iraq War Resolution vote. She caves in to Big Business. I'm not sure I trust her in the end to stand up for the little people. Of course, these are all true about too many in Congress today, sadly.

Every candidate has flaws. Every candidate is going to be trashed by lots of people out there. Do not make the mistake of thinking that your favorite is somehow immune or above all that.

I do sincerely wish that everyone, candidates, supporters, opposers, everyone, would hold off the presidential campaigning for at least a year. Unfortunately, that's not happening.

[jellybeancurse]

24. I do not think the issue

is whether or not she is a woman (maybe for some, but not for me). The problems you cite as her flaws are powerful arguments, but in response to your mention of all candidates do this, "Of course, these are all true about too many in Congress today...". I do not think we should resign ourselves to vote for them in spite of all that.

And i agree. No campaigning until a month before the election.

[SheilaT]

26. What I'm referring to is

the way she was trashed back when Bill was running, and during the first year or so of his presidency. I do think things have changed somewhat since then.

Are you suggesting that there are potential candidates out there without flaws? I wish there were. I'm personally made crazy by all the threads that support or trash various candidates, even though I certainly have my own strong opinions about various ones. Back in '03 and '04 I kept on warning everyone that it didn't totally matter who the candidate would eventually be, that the great right-wing smear machine would find something, legitimate or not, to attack them over. Every candidate has vulnerabilities -- or ones that can be manufactured, as we saw with Kerry. How those attacks are responded to may be what matters the most.

At this late date I'm not sure it's helpful to critique what Kerry, or any other candidate did or said or responded to anything, other than as a lesson learned.

I often say, semi-jokingly, that for me there's no perfect candidate unless I were to run myself. I do think that in the end we have to reconcile what (or who) we wish the candidate were with the one that actually gets the nomination. It's a very flawed system.

Personally, until we get actual direct election of the president, I may never again bother to vote for president, especially since I live in Kansas and so my vote doesn't count. As can be said of any Republican who lives in a reliably Democratic state.

[StudentDUer]

25. I know Bill/Hillary's healthcare plan

I don't think it would've succeded. I think it would've been such a beauracratic nightmare that it would've stained the words "universal healthcare" for decades to come. Many Democrats have proposed good universal healthcare bills like Conyers, but Hillarycare is not the way.