US Code, Title 44, Chapter 22, Section 2207. Vice-Presidential records

[LSK]

§ 2207. Vice-Presidential records

Vice-Presidential records shall be subject to the provisions of this chapter in the same manner as Presidential records. The duties and responsibilities of the Vice President, with respect to Vice-Presidential records, shall be the same as the duties and responsibilities of the President under this chapter with respect to Presidential records. The authority of the Archivist with respect to Vice-Presidential records shall be the same as the authority of the Archivist under this chapter with respect to Presidential records, except that the Archivist may, when the Archivist determines that it is in the public interest, enter into an agreement for the deposit of Vice-Presidential records in a non-Federal archival depository. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to authorize the establishment of separate archival depositories for such Vice-Presidential records.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode44/usc_sec_44_00002207----000-.html

[annabanana]

1. (looks pretty cut & dried to me). . . . . .n/t

[damntexdem]

21. Oh, but that's just the law that applies.

It says nothing of imperial will.

;-)

[LiberalFighter]

58. It became law on 4 Nov 1978

[AndyA]

2. And there you have it.

Cheney is in violation. No doubt about it. Once again, Dick Cheney is WRONG.

Congress, what are you going to do about it?

[ljm2002]

3. There you go!

Great find!

Now how come the highly paid legal minds that are crawling all over DC couldn't come up with that?????

[A wise Man]

47. Now that really is a "MYSTERY".

[jimshoes]

54. Sometimes I think they're paid

not to come up with things like that.

[AndyA]

4. Thrilled to give this one it's #5! n/m

[Vincardog]

Do they mean that the OVP is part of the Executive? Who would have thought?

[ourbluenation]

5. nicely done LSK.

there it is.

[Richard Steele]

6. No "wiggle room" there- Cheney is clearly breaking the law. nm

[earthboundmisfit]

7. How in the hell can the Dick get around that?!?

It says it all quite plainly - and it doesn't say "UNLESS the VP is Dick Cheney" anywhere!

[atreides1]

11. Because He Knows That Congress Won't Do Anything

He knows he has nothing to be afraid of, because Gonzo is in his pocket and Congress will back down once the media starts to sound the "unpatriotic song"!!!!!

[BuyingThyme]

31. The Constitution is off the table.

Thanks again, Nancy!

[redqueen]

32. That's not true! They'll send a strongly-worded letter! n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. Or perhaps a non-binding resolution, if they care nothing for the publics mandate for civlility.

Oh, yeah :sarcasm:

[TahitiNut]

66. He just waves the magic "Go Fuck Yourself" finger and career politicians hide in fear.

When politicians are more concerned about their re-election and big money campagn contributions than doing the right thing, we're truly, deeply fucked.

We're still in an era of "Go Along To Get Along" politics on the center-left. It's absolutely no surprise we've swung so far to the fascist right. It'll obviously get a lot worse before it gets better, since there's absolutely no indication that a critical mass of outrage and indignation has yet arisen.

[ThomWV]

8. Kick!

[bleever]

9. Thank you for posting this.

Much appreciated!

[Traveling_Home]

10. So How ....?????

"Vice-Presidential records shall be subject to the provisions of this chapter in the same manner as Presidential records"

"The authority of the Archivist with respect to Vice-Presidential records shall be the same as the authority of the Archivist under this chapter with respect to Presidential records"

So tell me how are Presidential records treated and what is the authority pf the Archivist with respect to Presidential records????????????

[blogslut]

14. Perhaps your answer is here

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode44/usc_sec_44_00002205----000-.html

TITLE 44 > CHAPTER 22 > § 2205

§ 2205. Exceptions to restricted access


Notwithstanding any restrictions on access imposed pursuant to section 2204

(1) the Archivist and persons employed by the National Archives and Records Administration who are engaged in the performance of normal archival work shall be permitted access to Presidential records in the custody of the Archivist;

(2) subject to any rights, defenses, or privileges which the United States or any agency or person may invoke, Presidential records shall be made available

(A) pursuant to subpena or other judicial process issued by a court of competent jurisdiction for the purposes of any civil or criminal investigation or proceeding;

(B) to an incumbent President if such rec­ords contain information that is needed for the conduct of current business of his office and that is not otherwise available; and

(C) to either House of Congress, or, to the extent of matter within its jurisdiction, to any committee or subcommittee thereof if such records contain information that is needed for the conduct of its business and that is not otherwise available; and

(3) the Presidential records of a former President shall be available to such former President or his designated representative.

[LSK]

16. but there is nothing differentiating Presidential from Vice Presidential

[blogslut]

19. So very true :)

Also note that both the Senate and the House have the right to ask for records.

[SeattleGirl]

12. Clear as glass to me. I thought it was Bush who didn't read, but

apparently, Cheney doesn't either.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

13. k and r

[TahitiNut]

15. I don't see much wiggle-room in that blackletter law.

:shrug: Arrest the sonofabitch. :argh:

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

17. What I want to see is a decision about executive authority.

Can the president break any law he pleases? Can the VP break any law HE pleases, too?

I realize this is a separate issue but a very important one IMO.

[Toots]

49. It really is not a seperate issue

Congressional Law was created and signed into being concerning Presidential Papers. It was called the Presidential Papers Act. An Act of Congress. It stated all Presidential Papers must be released after no more than twelve years have passed since the President has left office but can be released after eight years. It has been way more than twelve years for Reagan and Bush 1 . Bush* created an Executive Order saying he did not have to comply to congressional Law. He did this very early in his first term and no one uttered a damn thing about it..so yes your question is very pertinent to this discussion.

[Bluerthanblue]

18. didn't cheney's lawyer cite a 2001 law as

a reason why he didn't need to comply?

I read the 'response' from cheney's office, and remember thinking that it gave some more creedence to the LIHOP/MIHOP stance.???

I'll have to try and find this ?

[Bluerthanblue]

22. duh... i can't remember

what or where i read this.-

But when cheney refused to comply with the energy memo's- and no one really challenged him with anything substantial, i think he became empowered- and i doubt anything will stop him from doing what ever the hell he wants until his pacemaker is unnecessary. :crazy:

[Emit]

38. I don't know either, but here's what Addington, Cheney's counsel at that time

(Addington is now Cheney's Libby) wrote to Waxman regarding Waxman's request for info about Cheney's meetings with Enron:

Addington said in his letter to Waxman, "This information is provided to you as a matter of comity between the legislative and executive branches, with due regard for the constitutional separation of powers and reserving all legal authorities and privileges that may apply."

"It is our hope that submission of the information will help you avoid the waste of time and taxpayer funds on unnecessary inquiries," Addington said.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/01/09/enron.cheney/index.html

[Bluerthanblue]

43. how can cheney be a member of the executive branch

when writing this letter-
and then NOT- when trying to weasel out of accountability??

(another duh-:crazy: )


How can cheney have "staff" members who represent the "excutive branch" if cheney is saying he isn't part of the "executive branch"???

-- A meeting October 10 between an employee on the vice president's staff who had served as executive director of the energy policy group's support staff and Enron representatives.

If cheney is saying he's part of the Legislature then what state does he represent? and can we (the people) excercise our "Right of Recall"????

The politicians don't seem to want to do much- maybe we the people need to demand our inalienable rights?

(wishfull thinking-:( )

[LiberalFighter]

59. If he represents a state then there is a state with more than alloted reps

[Uncle Joe]

64. The state of denial, that's all he has left. n/t

[librechik]

24. the EO

an Executive Order from Bush himself that Addington deliberately misinterpreted. The Order says Cheney's office is treated the same at Bush's office in re oversight. Perrino kept getting it mixed up this morning first saying it covers, then it doesn't.

They are muddying the waters once again.

I don't understand Addington's logic.

[Bluerthanblue]

25. thanks! - is this the one?

Ex. Ord. No. 13233. Further Implementation of the Presidential Records Act

Ex. Ord. No. 13233, Nov. 1, 2001, 66 F.R. 56025, provided:

Sec. 9. Establishment of Procedures.
This order is not intended to indicate whether and under what circumstances a former President should assert or waive any privilege. The order is intended to establish procedures for former and incumbent Presidents to make privilege determinations.




Sec. 11. Vice Presidential Records.
(a) Pursuant to section 2207 of title 44 of the United States Code, the Presidential Records Act applies to the executive records of the Vice President. Subject to subsections (b) and (c), this order shall also apply with respect to any such records that are subject to any constitutionally based privilege that the former Vice President may be entitled to invoke, but in the administration of this order with respect to such records, references in this order to a former President shall be deemed also to be references to the relevant former Vice President.
(b) Subsection (a) shall not be deemed to authorize a Vice President or former Vice President to invoke any constitutional privilege of a President or former President except as authorized by that President or former President.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to grant, limit, or otherwise affect any privilege of a President, Vice President, former President, or former Vice President.
Sec. 12. Judicial Review.
This order is intended to improve the internal management of the executive branch and is not intended to create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law by a party, other than a former President or his designated representative, against the United States, its agencies, its officers, or any person.
Sec. 13. Revocation.
Executive Order 12667 of January 18, 1989, is revoked.
George W. Bush.


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=2001&url=/uscode/html/uscode44/usc_sec_44_00002204----000-notes.html

[Emit]

28. I think it's EO 12958

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030325-11.html

edited to correct link.

[Emit]

34. More on Addington's logic here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1163127&mesg_id=1163127

[valerief]

20. I wonder if they can "misplace" laws nowadays. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

23. what does this rule mean in terms of

the 'concequences'???

In other words:

What punishment is applicible if a president or vice president refuses to comply with the Archivist?

A law without teeth isn't of much value to powerful outlaws.

I've looked and just can't find my way through the legal mumbo jumbo.

Anyone know?

[rosesaylavee]

26. Have you sent this to Olbermann yet?

Bet he would enjoy having this research available to him.

[LSK]

27. no, how would I do that?

[rosesaylavee]

29. Email the show with this address:

[e-mail]

[LSK]

30. ok, others will have to also

[rosesaylavee]

35. Ok. I will do too.

And give you credit for finding it.

[LSK]

36. thanks

[rosesaylavee]

40. Already sent.

Aren't I the little officious poster? Telling you what to do with your post! :hi:

[LSK]

39. I also sent it to Waxmans offices

http://oversight.house.gov/contact.asp

[rosesaylavee]

41. As stated up thread,

why haven't any of the highly paid lawyers in DC found this info? This is a great post and disseminating the info far and wide is the best thing. No way should this be spun as 'Dick just being Dick' in the Corporate Media.

He needs to be impeached. Now.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. Chapter and verse. Nothing to hide behind. No wiggle room.

The office of the vice president is engaged in high crimes and misdemeanors and has publicly stated its willfull disregard for the law.

Where is that table? What is on it?

[Peace Patriot]

37. My theory: Cheney was not looking for a loophole by which to lose some docs,

so much as he was looking for a legal "talking point"--even a farfetched one like this--to hide the docs behind while yet another absurd "debate" takes place (he said/she said) mostly in the media that eats up the time. Once he's out of office, he can just shred/burn it all (if he hasn't already), and the political will to go after him will likely be much less and peter out to nothing. He absconds to Dubai with fab billions, and to a quiet retirement of playing monopoly with maybe some side recreation in the sultans' torture dungeons, or, if the old ticker holds up, maybe becomes "political adviser" for private armies in Colombia that want to distabilize the new leftist Andes democracies and assassinate their elected presidents, prep to re-installing fascist dictatorhips that like World Bank loans, and don't mind underselling the country's natural resources for global corporate predators.

Yes, there is a future even for fascist geezers, if they can just escape in time, shredding everything behind them and leaving their aides holding the bags, and, of course, if they can afford the best health care on earth.

Never forget the ridiculous Toensing legal "argument" that Valerie Plame was "technically" not covert (according to her), because, while she may have spent time in foreign countries under deep cover and in great danger, she didn't spend some Toensing-specified amount of time there, thus it's okay to out her, blow her cover, put her and her family in danger no matter where they live, and furthermore out all of her covert agents and contacts in foreign countries working on illicit WMD issues, by outing the name of her front company as well.

All these fascists want is a "talking point" to fill the airwaves with--which our war profiteering corporate news monopolies graciously permit them to do. Doesn't matter how absurd it is. It's just a time-filler, while plots and cover stories and strongarming of supporters and spying and blackmail and other dark tactics are used to make the bad story go away, and to create distractions and new story lines--or to, as in the Cheney case, engineer an escape for the honcho.

A similar argument and distraction was mounted in the case of the conviction and sentencing of Scooter Libby--used by his defense team AND by many "talking heads" spewing the "talking point": That Patrick Fitzgerald did not have authority to prosecute Libby. Three years of investigation, several grand juries, thousands of FBI and GJ interviews, and several court proceedings later, and they raise this NOW (at the sentencing)? In fact, it was disposed of by the judge early in the trial. And, while lawyers might be forgiven for using such a hairbrained argument, in desperation, what can account for the repetition of this shite, and the "pardon movement," all over the media, except that it is coordinated WITH the corporate media (collusion that the Libby trial did something to expose), and was perhaps a "test case" of news narrative management, in these new more anti-Bush Junta circumstances, for later, even more heavy-duty use by Cheney.

So-o-o-o, we shouldn't dwell so much on the legal "talking point" itself--that Cheney and the VP's office are not part of the Executive Branch, and thus are not subject to its document preservation laws. It is absurd on its face. We should be dwelling on what the "talking point" is meant to accomplish, in manipulation of news/talk and in eating up the time between now and Cheney's escape. Our Diebold/ES&S (s)elected "Democratic" Congress seems to have assured these master criminals that they will not be held accountable by THIS Congress. But the people could smarten up and get themselves a REAL Democratic Congress in the near future, and that could be a problem, even if interest in some quarters is strongarmed into petering out. So time is of the essence. They've already made it past "Go" and have seized their "$200." Now all they need is that "Get Out of Jail Free" card, which they happen to know is waiting for them in the stacked deck.

[opihimoimoi]

62. THEY WILL PARDON THEMSELVES...thats the get out of jail card....

[11 Bravo]

42. Kick.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

44. and kick again

to me, this is the most important post of the evening... the media and people need to scream "foul" and rid our country of this parasite

[creeksneakers2]

46. Kick!

Great find! Bush is defending Cheney by saying all that might have been broken was an executive order,which Bush has the power to set aside. In fact,after reading 2201 -2207,I can see that Cheney broke a statute. Bush can't set aside a statute. The press is very confused by Bush's executive order red herring. I hope word of your find will get to the press to straighten them out.

[Marnieworld]

48. but, but, we're in a time of war!

We've had a shadow Cheney gov't for quite sometime. All bets are off. They can declare something legal and then fight it through the judicial system. They are doing whatever they want now because time is on their side. Laws? We don't need no stinkin' laws! If you don't like 'em ignore 'em! Got a problem with that- let's go hunting.

[LSK]

50. kick

[orleans]

51. um...i don't think so! at least, not anymore!

"Vice-Presidential records shall be subject to the provisions of this chapter in the same manner as Presidential records"

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!

WAIT!

that IS right. because bush is exempt from this too. ah, it all makes so much sense now, doesn't it? i mean, at first we thought bush had to comply even though cheney wasn't going to. but now we have this on the friday news dump:

Bush claims oversight exemption too
The White House says the president's own order on classified data does not apply to his office or the vice president's.
By Josh Meyer, Times Staff Writer
June 23, 2007

WASHINGTON — The White House said Friday that, like Vice President Dick Cheney's office, President Bush's office is not allowing an independent federal watchdog to oversee its handling of classified national security information.

An executive order that Bush issued in March 2003 — amending an existing order — requires all government agencies that are part of the executive branch to submit to oversight. Although it doesn't specifically say so, Bush's order was not meant to apply to the vice president's office or the president's office, a White House spokesman said.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/la-na-cheney23jun23,1,7680698.story?coll=la-news-politics-national&track=crosspromo

see? it all makes so much sense now. NO ONE HAS TO COMPLY!

YEE-FUCKING-HAW! LET THE SECURITY LEAKS BEGIN!

[ManWroteTheBible]

52. Um... Congressman Kucinich?

Do you need anything else to impeach this prick... I mean, Dic-k!

edited to add that I too emailed KO!

[SaveAmerica]

53. Did Bush scribble a signing statement in crayon on the original?

Someone should check on it.

[Supersedeas]

67. the post-dated crayon is ready and waiting for Cheaty's order

[BrainGlutton]

55. Thing is, the rule Bush and Cheney are ignoring is not a law . . .

It is a presidential directive. Who else but the president should get to interpret it?

Which does not mean Congress cannot ENACT legislation that would put the president's and vice-president's offices under oversight WRT their records.

Hint, hint.

[creeksneakers2]

57. self delete

[Roland99]

56. You and your pre-9/11 thinking...

:P

[havocmom]

60. OK, DUers: Get this out in LTTE to all your local newspapers!

Call into all the radio and TV programs that do phones. Email the rest. Get this out there in America as THE topic of discussion around the water coolers! MAKE NOISE

Send to your congress critters, along with a personal message that you fully expect them to do their jobs re the law-breaking V.P.

[LSK]

61. one more kick

[LSK]

63. kick again

[Uncle Joe]

65. Thanks for the thread LSK

Kicked, too late to recommend.