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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 12:38 AM Original message |
Muslim girl told to remove scarf |
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 01:22 AM Response to Original message |
1. One has to wonder how a teacher... |
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Hamlette (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 01:30 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. I'm having a hard time drawing the line her |
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 03:34 AM Response to Reply #2 |
7. Everything is political.... |
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Hamlette (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:01 AM Response to Reply #7 |
21. agreed, but. . . |
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 02:13 PM Response to Reply #21 |
52. I understand and generally agree with you.... |
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Toots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:03 AM Response to Reply #7 |
23. Would you consider "gang colors" to be political and does the school have a right |
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 02:50 PM Response to Reply #23 |
55. I'm not sure I would equate "gang colors" with making a political statement.... |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 05:41 PM Response to Reply #55 |
63. School rules are usually laid out in a booklet that must be signed and returned |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 05:48 PM Response to Reply #63 |
64. No one is required to hold or practice beliefs that others think are tasteful. |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 05:59 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. You're conflating two separate things here. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 06:03 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. To the contrary - we are talking about one thing - placing your personal choices over |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 06:18 PM Response to Reply #67 |
68. Nope, this isn't about my "personal choice", it's about the schools dress code |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 06:27 PM Response to Reply #68 |
69. I have part of the ACLU graphic as my avatar for a reason. |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 06:49 PM Response to Reply #69 |
71. So in your eyes, it's "intrusive" to object to the sexualization of young girls. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:00 PM Response to Reply #71 |
72. No, in my eyes there are clear principles of civil rights and autonomy. |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:14 PM Response to Reply #72 |
76. Schools are notoriously anti-autonomy for children |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:39 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. Autonomy for children???? Autonomy for families. |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:53 PM Response to Reply #78 |
80. Autonomy in school and autonomy at home are two different things |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 08:00 PM Response to Reply #80 |
83. And yet families have significant leeway regarding religious expression at school as well. |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 08:17 PM Response to Reply #83 |
84. Public schools have the final say on their dress code. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 08:22 PM Response to Reply #84 |
86. Everything is subject to change - and lawsuits. |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 08:45 PM Response to Reply #86 |
91. If the school has a dress code, and the girl agreed to it, she will lose. |
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 06:28 PM Response to Reply #63 |
70. I'm not certain whether... |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:00 PM Response to Reply #70 |
74. I only mention the code of conduct contracts since I've personally experienced them |
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seabeyond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 09:52 AM Response to Reply #2 |
19. my 9 yr old wore four different peace sign shirts all school year |
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Hamlette (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:02 AM Response to Reply #19 |
22. but the political statement is not "I hate modernity and want to kill you all" n/t |
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seabeyond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:09 AM Response to Reply #22 |
24. that is a small faction of a huge religion. closed minded to label all |
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Hamlette (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:28 AM Response to Reply #24 |
25. sorry...I should have been more precise |
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seabeyond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:35 AM Response to Reply #25 |
27. since i dont live in group think, and i live my way, i gotta |
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Hamlette (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:41 AM Response to Reply #27 |
28. actually I suspect we have completely different positions |
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seabeyond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:43 AM Response to Reply #28 |
30. i know christians in this country that take up arms against us |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:43 AM Response to Reply #28 |
31. But I don't see what the acts of some Muslims has to do with the dress codes of others. |
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Hamlette (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 11:09 AM Response to Reply #31 |
35. would you tolerate the white hoods of the KKK? n/t |
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Rosemary2205 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 11:32 AM Response to Reply #35 |
37. I can't see the KKK being considered a religion. |
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Hamlette (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 01:48 PM Response to Reply #37 |
48. why should we protect a religious expression if it has the same goal as a |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 01:53 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. I'd have to ask you to identify the particular expression and clarify the |
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Hamlette (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 02:45 PM Response to Reply #49 |
54. no, they are not the same |
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entanglement (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 08:25 PM Response to Reply #54 |
87. Seems like you've fallen for "terra terra" and "clash of civilizations" pushed by the ruling bosses |
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seabeyond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 01:57 PM Response to Reply #48 |
50. deleted |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 12:44 PM Response to Reply #35 |
41. In what way? |
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Hamlette (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 02:08 PM Response to Reply #41 |
51. therein lies the problem |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 02:16 PM Response to Reply #51 |
53. Well, A. The Niquab is one of a range of types of veiling; B. I don't think you can |
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smirkymonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 02:56 PM Response to Reply #35 |
56. Good point. |
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pampango (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 01:16 PM Response to Reply #31 |
46. Interesting between this instance and the "purity ring" case in England. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 01:32 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. I don't hold other nations to quite the same standard as the US because I don't |
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pampango (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 04:51 PM Response to Reply #47 |
60. I agree to holding the US to a higher (different?) standard. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 05:21 PM Response to Reply #60 |
61. There is an additional difference between the ring and the veil, as I see it: |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 03:56 PM Response to Reply #28 |
59. This girl was not doing any such thing |
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Solo_in_MD (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 12:52 PM Response to Reply #24 |
44. On what basis do you claim a small fraction? My experience is the reverse |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 08:30 PM Response to Reply #22 |
89. Do you think that's what hijab stands for to this girl? Really? |
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marshall (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:11 AM Response to Reply #1 |
12. Don't schools have dress code policies? |
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ikojo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:31 AM Response to Reply #12 |
14. Preparing them for the corporate world where |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 11:01 AM Response to Reply #12 |
34. Yes, most schools have dress codes |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 11:37 AM Response to Reply #34 |
38. Just read the direct link, and the school has a dress code banning head gear. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 12:46 PM Response to Reply #38 |
43. That's mighty Chriistian of them. NT |
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Posteritatis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 12:45 PM Response to Reply #34 |
42. Hopping the Wall |
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Manifestor_of_Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-24-07 12:46 AM Response to Reply #12 |
92. No hats, even if it's cold outside??? |
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DemBones DemBones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:44 AM Response to Reply #1 |
32. It wasn't a teacher, it was a school supervisor. |
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Cha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 03:13 PM Response to Reply #1 |
58. Prescisely! And your point |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 08:26 PM Response to Reply #1 |
88. Yes. In public, for sure. nt |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 02:09 AM Response to Original message |
3. So the school employee forgot |
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SeattleGirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 02:16 AM Response to Original message |
4. Would this same teacher ask a Jewish student to remove his |
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Nikki Stone1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 03:00 AM Response to Original message |
5. It WASN'T a teacher. It was a "a school supervisor" in the lunchroom. Lunchroom monitor perhaps? |
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 03:28 AM Response to Reply #5 |
6. Here's a direct link.... |
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SeattleGirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 03:36 AM Response to Reply #6 |
8. Yeah, I can just imagine that school administrator's version of the Constitution: |
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 03:45 AM Response to Reply #8 |
9. But remember.... |
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SeattleGirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 03:50 AM Response to Reply #9 |
10. Oh, that's right! |
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AndreaCG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 04:25 AM Response to Original message |
11. There should be absolutely no problem with any woman wearing a head scarf |
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soothsayer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:25 AM Response to Reply #11 |
13. Burquas are unnecessary, according to a nice Muslim DU-er, who explained |
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ikojo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:34 AM Response to Reply #13 |
15. In the orthodox community modesty standards |
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VelmaD (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 08:23 AM Response to Reply #15 |
16. yeah... |
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shimmergal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:32 AM Response to Reply #13 |
26. This is what I also was told |
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Solo_in_MD (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 12:55 PM Response to Reply #26 |
45. Then you have to wonder why CAIR is so stridently protesting |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 05:26 PM Response to Reply #13 |
62. There are rules in dress that apply to men too |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 05:51 PM Response to Reply #13 |
65. Instructed "women" to dress modestly, not girls. And we are talking about a girl here. |
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seabeyond (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 09:50 AM Response to Original message |
17. one group demands she puts it on, one demands she takes it off |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 09:52 AM Response to Reply #17 |
20. Agreed - absolutely. NT |
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RedCappedBandit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 11:54 AM Response to Reply #17 |
39. the perfect response.. nt |
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entanglement (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 08:17 PM Response to Reply #17 |
85. Wish I could nominate your reply - |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 09:52 AM Response to Original message |
18. Can you imagine the uproar if a 13 year old girl was ordered to remove her crucifix? |
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tjwash (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:43 AM Response to Reply #18 |
29. An uproar that completely misses the irony that a crucifix is against commandment #2. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 10:45 AM Response to Reply #29 |
33. I regard that as a theological issue, not a legal one. The First Amendment |
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DemBones DemBones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 12:08 PM Response to Reply #29 |
40. A crucifix does not violate any commandment. |
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SayWhatYo (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:00 PM Response to Reply #18 |
73. On the reverse. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:12 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. I do think there's a significant difference between the ring and the scarf. |
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dogday (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 11:12 AM Response to Original message |
36. Everyone here, please remove all religious affiliation |
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smirkymonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 03:03 PM Response to Reply #36 |
57. Hear, hear! |
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Rosa Luxemburg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:16 PM Response to Reply #36 |
77. thought this was a free country? |
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philosophie_en_rose (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:54 PM Response to Reply #36 |
81. Oh hell no. |
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dogday (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-24-07 12:47 PM Response to Reply #81 |
93. Lumping too many things |
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philosophie_en_rose (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:52 PM Response to Original message |
79. What ethnocentric dumbass uneducated bullshit. |
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riderinthestorm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 07:56 PM Response to Reply #79 |
82. Actually it was against the (stupid) rules. |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-23-07 08:32 PM Response to Reply #82 |
90. Then they are ethnocentric dumbass uneducated bullshit rules that |
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Scurrilous (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-24-07 01:04 PM Response to Original message |
94. Behind the veil |
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