Critics of 'The Secret' bemoan claims

[Matsubara]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070623/ap_en_ot/books_the_secret

Critics of 'The Secret' bemoan claims

By TARA BURGHART, Associated Press Writer Sat Jun 23, 2:22 PM ET

CHICAGO - The woman with long, dark hair looks yearningly at the gold necklace in the window of a jewelry store. She fixates on the bling. There's some kind of disruption in the atmosphere. And then, the necklace is draped around her neck.
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The scenes unfold in "The Secret," a 90-minute-long DVD advocating the power of positive thinking that has sold 2 million copies. More than 5.2 million copies of the book of the same name are in print.

While "The Secret" has become a pop culture phenomenon, it also has drawn critics who are not quiet about labeling the movement a fad, embarrassingly materialistic or the latest example of an American propensity of wanting something for nothing.

Some medical professionals suggest it could even lead to a blame-the-victim mentality and actually be dangerous to those suffering from serious illness or mental disorders.

"It's a triumph of marketing and magic," said John Norcross, a psychologist and professor at the University of Scranton in Pennsylvania who conducts research on self-help books. He believes some are very useful when backed by science and focused on specific problems, such as depression.

"'The Secret' has earned my antipathy for its outrageous, unproven assertions that I believe go beyond the ordinary overpromises of most self-help books into a danger realm," he said.

"The Secret" is the work of Rhonda Byrne, an Australian television and film producer. Her central claim is that the "law of attraction" governs our universe.

"The law of attraction says that like attracts like, and when you think and feel what you want to attract on the inside, the law will use people, circumstances and events to magnetize what you want to you, and magnetize you to it," Byrne said in an e-mail in response to several questions posed by The Associated Press.

She said she was struggling personally and professionally several years ago when she was given a nearly 100-year-old book called "The Science of Getting Rich," by Wallace D. Wattles. In it, readers are guaranteed to become wealthy if they learn and follow "certain laws which govern the process of acquiring riches."

Inspired to do further research, Byrne said, she resolved to create a film to spread the word about what she felt she had learned about the "law of attraction."






Oh my freaking God. I saw this parody on SNL a few weeks ago, but I had no idea that this was a REAL book.

Spot-on SNL Parody:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=v3cJH60oiwY



Gee, I guess if I cobble together some scam self-help book and get it advertised on Oprah's show, millions of bucks will get attracted to me too.

I guess the conscience that prevents me from doing so is a form of "negative thinking" too?


Why are people so eager to buy into magical thinking to solve their problems and so afraid to stand up to their own government - an act that would have much more chance of producing benefits in the real world?

[displacedtexan]

1. They used to burn people at the stake for that kind of behavior.

[originalpckelly]

2. Did she say something about John Travolta?

Is he into this? If so, I wonder if this is some kind of BS being put out there by Scientology.

[I Have A Dream]

3. It was not put out by Scientology. n/t

[originalpckelly]

6. Yep, I just got done looking it over, it's some other group of three crooks.

A sucker is born every minute, and this just proves it.

[I Have A Dream]

25. Why insult? I could say the same thing about people who spend hundreds...

of dollars to see a concert or go to a football game. To me, they're suckers. Do they have the right to spend their money that way? Yes. Do I think that it's a good way to use their money? No. Is it any of my business? No.

Just because it doesn't fit into your world view doesn't make the people who get some value out of it suckers.

[Matsubara]

5. In real life I don't think he's into that book.

He is, however, a big Oprah schmoozer, FWIW.

[Akoto]

4. Oh, it's a real book. As someone who earns from home ...

The Secret is passed about my networking circles quite a bit. It has become a new favorite among many who operate home businesses.

I can tell you that "negative thinking" does have an equally negative impact upon your business efforts. By the same token, though, thinking you'll succeed by simply wishing hard enough is a crock of bullcrap. It takes a lot of hard work to get anywhere.

[originalpckelly]

7. Do you really a book to tell you that positive thinking is a good thing?

[Matsubara]

8. Oh, stop being so negative.

You're bound to attract a car crash or a huge refrigerator repair bill if you keep that up!

:P

[Akoto]

12. Um, perhaps I was unclear.

I don't support or use the book. I was remarking that it's very popular in home business circles, which I thought was (ironically) detrimental to their success. :) Positive thinking is absolutely essential to the success of a business, but self-sacrifice and work are equally valuable.

[originalpckelly]

I getcha.

Sorry! :hi:

[CanSocDem]

9. Most people are reluctant....

....to admit their present circumstance (good or bad) is a product of choice. I know I was; preferring to blame a variety of other persons and agencies and really, taking NO responsibility, whatsoever, for my own circumstance.

Fortunately, I came across the rich history of this 'belief system' in the early 70's and I began to regain lost confidence in my own abilities. I learned to avoid the thoughts that created barriers to my aspirations.

Though the particular focus of this 'emergence' of the philosophy is on acquiring "material wealth", a very important part of the ideology is PERSONAL HEALTH. It is very effective in combating the injustice of a for-profit health system.

[alarimer]

11. Bullshit

Losing a job or getting an illness is not about "choice". A lot of freepers prefer to blame the victim for being poor or getting sick but it is not true. You cannot wish yourself well or rich.

[Why Syzygy]

28. But what if ..

you can wish yourself sick and poor? Not only yourself but also for those you can drag along with you?

What if .. our natural state is health and abundance and it is by the ignorance of humankind that we experience sickness and poverty? hmm?

[alarimer]

32. That is New Age nonsense

Sickness and poverty have many causes. Sickness is caused largely by germs: bacteria and viruses for the most part. Cancer has numerous causes: genetic predisposition, which one has absolutely NO control over, exposure to contaminants perhaps, which one may or may not have any control over..

Bacteria and viruses do no discrimnate: rich or poor, smart or stupid, if you are exposed, you may become ill. No amount of "wishing" is going to cure you. You need antibiotics (for bacterial infections) or anti-viral or other medication.

Poverty is caused largely by our unequal economic system. It is inherently unfair if you are on the bottom; it is more than fair to those on top. By saying we can "wish ourselves rich" you are essentially blaming the poor for being poor. What about Paris Hilton? She serves no redeeming purpose that I know of, yet she is rich as hell. She certainly did not earn it herself. She was lucky enough to be born to wealthy parents. Just dumb luck. If you are born poor, you likely live in neighborhoods that have higher crime rates, shoddier living conditions, poorer schools. Unless you can get a scholarship you cannot afford college which is the usual ticket to a better life. So, no college, you are stuck working minimum wage jobs because you likely can't find anything else because you do not have any skills and you probably do not know the "right" people. Your daddy is not CEO of a company where he can give you a job.

Yes, hard work helps a lot. A lot more than any mystical bullshit.

Our natural state is not health and abundance. As cavemen, we lived short, brutal lives. Until fairly recently, most children died before their 5th birthday. In some parts of the world, the death rate is still very high. You go tell those poor people living in shantytowns in India that they are poor because they didn't wish hard enough.

[Why Syzygy]

43. the United States

is #180 out of 221 countries for highest infant mortality rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate_(2005)
Not surprisingly, people who live in countries with free health care live longer than we do.
Saw Sicko. Very compelling.

The assertion: Bacteria and viruses do no discrimnate: rich or poor, smart or stupid, if you are exposed, you may become ill. No amount of "wishing" is going to cure you. You need antibiotics (for bacterial infections) or anti-viral or other medication.
Just isn't logical or born out in real life. Not everyone who is exposed to a virus or bacteria gets sick. We have immune systems. Any Anatomy 101 class will teach you that the natural state of the human body is one of homeostasis, balance and health. Just as is the universe. Everything in nature is in perfect balance. Only with our egotistical eyes do we see lack when living on the Earth.

Poor doesn't necessarily mean misery. We would have described the Iraqi people as poor. But they had real lives. Not perfect. No one has achieved that yet. I'm a betting woman and I will wager that those who sit around telling everyone else that achievement and a perfect future are impossible because THINGS ARE JUST THE WAY THEY ARE!
Hard work guarantees zero. The Auschwitz prisoners worked hard.

Take a step back from the view of governments inflicting damage on the planet and human and animal population.
For that is what 'they' do. The earth does not go looking for trouble. She has a bounty. The problem is with mankind.
Can you sense the larger picture at all? Do you agree to be a slave to their worldview?

[mondo joe]

37. If it's true it should be easily verifiable.

If it can't be verified, why not?

[Merlot]

10. ...a nearly 100-year-old book called "The Science of Getting Rich,"

When I first hear of "the Secret" I immediatly thouguht that all this has been said and written before. Just never made into a movie.

It also sounds like Napolean Hill's "Think and Grow Rich" which isn't a bad book. It teaches you to dicipline your mind and think and TAKE ACTIONS to make progress.

I haven't seen "The Secret" yet, it's on my Netflix que, but has a "long wait" and I refuse to go rent it!

[CanSocDem]

13. Actually, it goes back thousands of years.

The Toltec culture utilized its' power. Many ancient cultures before science, utilized witch doctors and natural foods quite successfully, until we realized how science had a better explanation of how things worked.

Had we only realized that it was a science that was corporate-owned, we might not of let them into our schools to shape the 'future', for the benefit of the corporations and not the people.

There is a big consciousness shift slated for this century that is not at all about the christian myth of the anti-christ. These new-age ideas are popping up all over the place.

Recent books like the Celestine Prophecy and before that, the books of Carlos Castenada, encouraged my belief that there is a large number of the population coming around.

[LeftyMom]

14. Dang, that's a lot of woo.

The Toltec culture utilized its' power."New age" BS? What did they do with it? Many ancient cultures before science, utilized witch doctors and natural foods quite successfully, once they started farming and breeding plants they created the first unnatural foods, and civilization followed because this allowed people to settle down and grow the population until we realized how science had a better explanation of how things worked.

Had we only realized that it was a science that was corporate-owned, we might not of let them into our schools to shape the 'future', for the benefit of the corporations and not the people. Science is a way of evaluating the world through evidence. It is not "corporate owned" because it's an idea. And who is "them"- people who think scientifically? Because schools used to be run by the superstitious to promote superstition and I seem to recall that we called that time the dark ages for a reason.

There is a big consciousness shift define. show your evidence. slated for this century that is not at all about the christian myth of the anti-christ. These new-age ideas are popping up all over the place. Ad populum fallacy. Popularity of ideas does not imply that they are correct.

Recent books like the Celestine Prophecy and before that, the books of Carlos Castenada, encouraged my belief that there is a large number of the population coming around. That's funny, the same crap convinced me that if I were less ethical writing vauge and self-contradicting crap in gauzy spiritual language would be a great way to make a buck. I'm sure it convinced many less ethical people to give it a go, judging by the size of the New Age Nonsense section at any chain bookstore.

[CanSocDem]

16. Ah, such a cynic....

"Science is a way of evaluating the world through evidence."

Whose evidence...??? The tobacco companies who see no evidence of "addiction" in their product....???

"Science" is surviving on such a meager 'batting-average' these days that I'm surprised it's still in the line-up.

'Medical' science can't even explain 'the placebo effect' so it uses another bogus "science", mathematical probability, to explain away its' effect.

Industry says the building of pyramids is impossible without lots of money or armies of slave labour. Yes, there are bright, articulate people like yourself who are content with these non-explanations, but myself and millions of others are quite tired of them.

"Popularity of ideas does not imply that they are correct."

[LeftyMom]

19. Not a cynic, just not so open minded as to let my brains fall out.

"Science is a way of evaluating the world through evidence."

Whose evidence...??? The tobacco companies who see no evidence of "addiction" in their product....???

But that's the beauty of science. It also gives us the tools to evaluate evidence, and to constantly reevaluate and look for better, more refined explanations. So when bad evidence suggests that nicotine isn't addictive, or that early humans were subcranially primitive and largely modern from the neck up, or whatever, we catch it and keep looking for better evidence and explanations that better explain the new evidence.

"Science" is surviving on such a meager 'batting-average' these days that I'm surprised it's still in the line-up. I can't believe somebody typed that on a computer, over the internet, presumably while sitting in an air conditioned modern home someplace with an efficient and reliable vehicle out front. If you don't think science works, it's because you're taking it's fruits for granted.

'Medical' science can't even explain 'the placebo effect' so it uses another bogus "science", mathematical probability, to explain away its' effect. Actually, there's been a lot of investigation into the effects of placebos. The latest data shows that the placebo effect is much weaker than previously thought, and possibly nonexistent. So the lack of consistent findings for a cause of the placebo effect make sense in that context, that the "effect" was a misinterpretation of the data to begin with.

In any case, if it does exist a single cause is unlikely for a psychological phenomenon, simply because human psychology is complex. This does not indicate a weakness in the scientific approach.

Industry says the building of pyramids is impossible without lots of money or armies of slave labour. So does the archaeological evidence of large encampments, and particularly of huge bakeries and breweries to feed huge workforces near the Giza plateau. Yes, there are bright, articulate people like yourself who are content with these non-explanations, but myself and millions of others are quite tired of them. If these explanations don't work for you, the alternative is to find evidence of some better explanation, not to indulge in explanations which defy rationality and sense.

"Popularity of ideas does not imply that they are correct."

[CanSocDem]

42. ...that could happen???

I'd better close my mind.

" If these explanations don't work for you, the alternative is to find evidence of some better explanation, not to indulge in explanations which defy rationality and sense."

Most of my evidence for a "better explanation" is based on my own perceptions of reality. Since I just turned 60, I have had a lot of 'reality' to perceive. In that time I have noticed that one persons reality is often, another persons' fantasy. Some were obviously deluded but all were operating from a point of absolute certainty in their own reality.

I don't know if you have ever had a full-blown hallucination, like a vivid dream, but in the waking state, whether drug-induced or natural it will convince you that "reality" is very flexible. If you would rather entertain the equally irrational theories about space, time, and consciousness you have
lots of support from the industrialized world.

[alarimer]

33. Just because some people abuse the scientific method does not mean it isn't correct

Tobacco companies had the evidence, they just suppressed it.

Probability is not bogus just because you are too stupid to understand it.

[mondo joe]

36. You just proved yourself wrong.

Tobacco execs claimed a bunch of shit that science disproved -- disproved so well that they suppressed their own scientific findings.

The reason science has to be suppressed and manipulated and ignored is because it actually works.

[enki23]

39. tobacco companies eschewed their own evidence in favor of "positive thinking"

but smokers fucking got cancer anyway. go figure.

and just for the record, "mathematical probability" isn't a science. it's a tool of science. and if you think probability is bogus, you need some serious help. i suggest, in the meantime, you stay far, far away from casinos. they make money hands over fist by using that bogus "mathematical probability" and by encouraging magic "positive thinking" in millions of suckers who think they really can beat the system.

if magical positive thinking worked, lotteries would lose money for the states, and casinos would go out of business.

[davsand]

15. Do you guys attack ALL beliefs or just specific ones?

This comment is directed to many in this thread--not specifically the OP:


If you all are out there bashing any and every belief system--then by all means--have fun. I'm sure it will feel quite rewarding to sit alone in the circle jerk of the self righteous.

If, however, you feel compelled to bash only specific views then you run a very real risk of being seen as intolerant of any differences. I suspect that is not a perception that any of you cultivate normally, so I have to wonder why you feel compelled to attack only selected worldviews...




Laura

[Matsubara]

17. I don't attack spiritual beliefs...

...scams that target the gullible are another story...

[davsand]

20. Do you not "Get" the idea that some people subscribe to "New Age" beliefs?

You illustrate my point exactly. Just because YOU think it is a scam do you have the right to bash people who follow that path?

Do you also bash Christians with equal abandon given the fact that Christianity is a "mystery religion" as well? Do you bash any religion for subscribing to any given specific belief? If you claim ANY kind of attachment or acceptance of any given religion then you are being selective and maybe even running a risk of being called a hypocrite when you bash any OTHER belief system.

Just saying...


Laura

[Matsubara]

21. I have nothing against new age beliefs.

I love Sedona, and I don't think crystals are any less credible than the Bible.

What does this con job of a bookl have to do with new age beliefs?

All I see is a woman rehashing old metaphysical ideas into a new package to make a buck.

Positive thinking obviously has benefits - but it won't make a million bucks materialize for you.

And there is nothing "New Age" about this con job.

[lildreamer316]

23. Well, it has certainly made a difference in my life.

Why criticize the way anyone reaches enlightenment? There are many paths to the truth; none of which is better than the other. If someone finds truth in this way, why should that be a problem? It certainly helped me to see the world, and MY world (same thing in this scenario), in a better and different light; and to direct my energy where it will do the most good. We are HERE NOW. Today. This moment. I can spend the energy of this moment in being angry and pushing against (negative); or in giving toward. Which one do you think will be most productive?

Has the WAR on poverty been won? No. We are pushing against poverty.
Has the WAR on drugs been won? No.
Has the WAR on terrorism been "won"? (including the terrorism practiced by our leaders against us and others). No.

What does pushing against, negative behavior and thinking get us? Not very far.

I give and think toward peace. Toward the candidate who exemplifies what I think is the most positive view or our country and our world. To the candidates who have found their own truth and are clearly comfortable with that. Not to those who rave and scream.

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours."--Richard Bach.

This is my truth. Maybe it's not yours, but you don't see me trying to convince you otherwise; or TRYING TO LIMIT YOUR FREEDOM TO FIND IT WHERE YOU MAY.

This country is all about freedom; and freedom of choice. Why would YOU CHOOSE to try to LIMIT that?

The more people that reach their own truth; and learn to concentrate on themselves and their love first - this can only be a good thing in my view. How many people hurt others because they are themselves hurting? You can't heal anyone else before healing yourself. You can't really love anyone else fully and well and in a healthy manner without at least liking who you are too.

This book, and movie; helped explain some continuing spiritual principles to me in a way I understood and could relate to. If that makes me ______ in your eyes; that has no effect on me; it's just a perception.

And think about this: the more people attack and argue about the Secret; the more attention it receives. What is the saying...any publicity is good publicity?

Gotta thank all those in this thread for helping....

[I Have A Dream]

24. I agree, lildreamer. I'm tired and am not up to the fight today. Thanks for...

your excellent post. :hug:

[Why Syzygy]

29. Wow, lildreamer ..

Excellent testimony! :applause:

[davsand]

26. "New Age" and "Con Job" in the same sentence. Very nice.

Also speaks volumes.

It might not be your cuppa tea, but it ain't YOUR place to decide for me or anyone else. It is called Religious Tolerance and it is a rather novel idea that many of us struggle with at some point or another:


http://www.religioustolerance.org/1st_visi.htm


Again I will say, if you subscribe to ANY particular philosophy it smacks of hypocrisy to attack another belief system...

Peace to you and yours.


Laura

[mondo joe]

40. As a consumer matter, I do take issue with the con job done by many religions -

olds and new age alike.

I have no problem with anyone spending their money on whatever brings them satisfaction.

Just the same, when you buy a Wii or an iPod or a case of wine, you can be assured of what you will be buying.

When you buy a philosophy...

[Matsubara]

45. You're not paying attention, are you?

I don't care if it's Christianity, Buddhism, New Age, Get-Rich-Quick cash-flow gimmicks, a lot of these things are just overpriced scams.

You want to get into New Age? Great! But telling people they will automatically make millions just from thinking right is a scam. There is simply not the potential within our economy to provide millions to every person who follows the "principles", which I'm not really sure reven qualify as "new age" or "religion". Closer to cleverly marketed superstion and mumbo-jumbo...

[enki23]

41. the first almost always falls under the auspices of the second

.

[Beelzebud]

30. Do you believe every line of bullshit, or just specific ones?

[mr blur]

31. Personally I'm contemptuous of all systems of belief and faith

But you wouldn't be interested in that seeing as how you seem willing to give credence to any old garbage provided that someone is willing to "believe" in it. Good luck with that and don't let reality hit you on the way out.

[davsand]

46. You are consistent across the boards and that I understand.

I understand doubt, I actually think that everybody needs to examine this stuff and form opinions for themselves. What I can't accept is the idea expressed here that some belief systems are created somehow "better" or more valid than others.

If you think The Secret is full of shit--then don't buy it and don't pay it any mind. If you think that Christians / Jews / Muslims / Pagans / ______(insert any other belief system here)___ are full of shit--then don't GO there. All I'm saying is just leave the other guys alone because it isn't your place to call them stupid, naive or even misguided.

Reality is, no matter WHAT science you embrace, no matter what faith or belief system you follow, nobody REALLY knows for sure until it is too late to tell anybody--and even then I doubt everybody would listen to you...


Laura

[alarimer]

34. All of them

All the religious mystical bullshit is not supported by anything like facts.
Stupid, irrational nonsense. ALL OF IT.

[davsand]

47. Science would be where your trust lies, and that sounds like it is working for you.

I'm glad it works for you and good on you for having come to that level of self knowledge.

Are the people who place trust in some other belief less deserving of respect or even tolerance?


:shrug:


Laura

[yurbud]

18. how is this Tony Robbins scam shit getting so much play? They should have a class on this in

high school, maybe as part of personal finance.

[stellanoir]

22. Welp here's something upon which perhaps we all can agree. . .

and it's free, free, free. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA1t-nyA0v4

www.firethegrid.com

only requires an hour of your time (the video is far shorter) and was initiated by someone who was not at all religiously oriented. . .then she became spiritually oriented after she had an accident, a NDE, and healed her temporarily brain dead son.

This will be amazing and it's not about anybody's enrichment. . .but all of our's and our kid's. . .and more importantly. . .Gaia's.

[WinkyDink]

27. It's another ploy of the wealthy to "blame the poor" for the latter's plight.

The poor just aren't VISUALIZING well enough!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. Bad writing.

Really, really bad writing.

[distantearlywarning]

38. The Secret.

The worst part about conservatism wrapped in a New Age Horseshit(tm)package.

It amazes me that there is even a single DUer out there willing to subscribe to this kind of blame the victim BS.

[BlueIris]

44. With the caveat that I think people need to read it, or at least skim it,

and try to think meaningfully about what the authors are trying to communicate, I confess...

...as an enthusiast of New Age thoughts and philosophies, I don't like "The Secret."

I think it's an inappropriate representation of the concepts it discusses (the so-called "Law of Attraction" and the idea of manifestation). I think our abilities to shape and define our own realities are still bound by a balance between the rational laws of the corporeal world and an awareness of the spiritual.

I also have problems with the way mass media is representing it, which from what I've seen is encouraging far too many people to believe they can just "wish" away their problems, "magically" make other people recover from serious illnesses, and ignore their responsibility to take positive action to try to correct the inequities in their relationships and in this society.

[Codeine]

48. Once again we learn

that one cannot go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.