"Wait Time" Myth about universal health care, debunked.

[IChing]

The Doc's In, but It'll Be a While
Despite spending lots more per capita on health care, the U.S. is often as bad or worse than other industrialized nations in wait times

by Catherine Arnst

One of the most repeated truisms about the U.S. health-care system is that, for all its other problems, American patients at least don't have to endure the long waits for medical care that are considered endemic under single-payer systems such as those in Canada and Britain. But as several surveys and numerous anecdotes show, waiting times in the U.S. are often as bad or worse as those in other industrialized nations—despite the fact that the U.S. spends considerably more per capita on health care than any other country. In addition, 48 million people without insurance do not have ready access to the system.

One disturbing study published last year by researchers at the University of California at San Francisco found average waits of 38.2 days to get an appointment with a dermatologist to check out a possibly cancerous mole. "Waiting is definitely a problem in the U.S., especially for basic care," says Karen Davis, president of the nonprofit Commonwealth Fund, which studies health-care policy. She attributes the delays to a number of factors. Only one-third of U.S. doctors are general or family practitioners, she notes, compared with half in most European countries. Also, only some 40% of doctors have arrangements for after-hours care, making it difficult to see a physician on nights and weekends. As a result, emergency rooms have become fallback systems for routine care.

Of the countries surveyed, 81% of patients in New Zealand got a same or next-day appointment for a nonroutine visit, 71% in Britain, 69% in Germany, 66% in Australia, 47% in the U.S., and 36% in Canada. Those lengthy wait times in the U.S. explain why 26% of Americans reported going to an emergency room for a condition that could have been treated by a regular doctor if available, higher than every other country surveyed.>>>>snip

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2007/tc20070621_716260_page_2.htm

[Captain Hilts]

1. No Canadian I know would trade places with us. nt

[ljm2002]

21. Unfortunately, I do know at least one Canadian...

...who would trade places. Met him at work, somehow the topic came up with a few of us in casual conversation, he was practically frothing at the mouth regarding his high taxes and how he'd like to keep more of his money.

I always have trouble figuring out the reasoning processes of selfish conservative assholes, myself.

[Toots]

27. Just plain ignorance

If a person did even a little figuring they would understand how stupid that argument really is. First off it costs about seven hundred dollars a month for decent insurance (which is mostly paid for by employers) which added up is $8400.00 a year. It was noted here very recently that Sweden pays out about $3000 per year and has a much better system with all included. Lower infant mortality and higher average age span. Now figure in the savings on products that would be realized if employers didn't have to fund employees health care insurance. Price of goods would drop considerably, your dollar would go much farther. So you have to pay an additional three thousand a year in taxes, the savings would far far outweigh the loss. People need to start doing some critical thinking in America or we won't be able to brag about ourselves much longer. No country that does not take care of it's citizens is worth talking about...The entire purpose of government is to maintain the Health and Welfare of the Nation......

[chelaque liberal]

28. Critical thinking is not the New American way.

No Child Left Behind is working hard to erase that concept from education-just memorize what what we tell you to pass the test.

Not using critical thinking is a requirement of Fundie Churches-you have to "believe," that's what "faith" is. Here in TN one of my co-workers told me, "I am a Christian woman. I have to vote for Bush because my preacher said so."

[ComerPerro]

2. anyone who uses the "long wait" bullshit line has never gone to an emergency room

[Strawman]

4. Exactly

My friend's mom this weekend...7 hours.

[IChing]

5. It is interesting this article came out of Business Week

and not a left wing source. Maybe there is hope.

[NewJeffCT]

17. Plenty of businesses would benefit from a national health care plan

GM, Ford, Chrysler among them...

But, other companies that have large workforces would as well: Wal-Mart, GE, ExxonMobil, etc.

[leftchick]

7. My uncle died on the emergency room floor waiting for treatment

that was ten years ago next week. It was horrible. :cry:

[ComerPerro]

10. Something tells me that stories like that are all too commonplace

Its sick, really

[yankeeinlouisiana]

8. Or had an HMO.

Several years ago I had an HMO as an insurance company. I ended up getting strep throat and called for a doctors appointment. I had a fever and was in a lot of pain. (I hate sore throats.) So the receptionist tells me that the next available appointment was 5 days later. I told her I wanted to be well in 5 days not wait 5 days to see a doctor. I didn't make the appointment and just went to an emergency care clinic. Had to pay more, but I got rid of my strep throat!

[ComerPerro]

9. That's the goal. Its amazing, you pay for health insurance and then, when you're sick

your insurance can refuse to accomodate you

[Donnachaidh]

18. the heck with the ER waiting room -- my obstetrician made us wait hours

for regular visits.

One day I waited 4 HOURS for an ultrasound. This may not seem much, but they have you drink a liter of water before they do the ultrasound. And you CAN'T pee! Try waiting THAT LONG when you're 8 months pregnant. :grr:

[Bassic]

29. They don't even need to make you drink water when you're 8

months pregnant. There is enough fluid in the womb already. Maybe he played a cruel prank.

[knitter4democracy]

32. I never had to drink water when I was that far along.

That doesn't make sense. They got that wrong, and you suffered for it. I'd be furious!

[bryant69]

3. That is one of the stranger parts of this argument

"Who You gonna believe - me or your lying eyes" sort of thing. Everybody who interacts with the American medical system knows that waits and delays are part of the game.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[ComerPerro]

6. Amen to that. "Well, we can get your surgery, but it will take a few days to schedule..."

"Then we need to check with your insurance to make sure its covered, and see what other procedures they allow, and..."

[Bitwit1234]

11. Wait time in this country is just as bad.

Back in 1985 I was diagnosed with cancerous tumors. Before I could have the operation I had to had a renal scan of my kidneys. Knowing full well that I had cancer, the HMO I belonged to at that time said the wait was FOUR WEEKS and it was. That was ridiculous and after the surgery and recuperation I changed my HMO.

My sister belonged to an HMO, she was operated on for breast cancer. Five years after the operation her white blood cells went haywire, suggesting a problem. Well the HMO, with all her background, made her wait a month before they sent her for tests. She passed away because the cancer had metastasized.

[Maraya1969]

12. OMG that is horrible! I am so sorry for your loss.

[IChing]

14. What country are you talking about? Your profile is diabled

The study said the US has some of longest wait times. Yet you said:

" Wait time in this country is just as bad" ----????---didn't really understand that title, bad as what?

Sorry for your lost I have my own horror stories about wait time in the US.

[ThomCat]

13. I've had to wait a month to see a rheumatologist,

a urologist, a dermatologist, and a neurologist. I've had to wait weeks to see a pain management doctor, a ophalmologist, and an orthopedist.

I'm still waiting (6 weeks now) for my first appointment to see a neuro-opthalmologist.

There are times I wait several weeks to get in to see my family doctor.

I have friends in Montreal and we've compared notes on healthcare. I almost always have to wait longer here in the US than they do in Canada.

[antigop]

15. I needed an emergency MRI and couldn't get one

My doctor said to get an MRI ASAP because he thought I might be having (or had) a stroke.

It took me days to get one.

In all fairness, it was not the insurance company that was the problem -- it was the MRI places that claimed they were booked.

[creeksneakers2]

16. Amazing!

Sure debunks the wait time myth.

[RedEarth]

19. kr

[SteelPenguin]

20. I was having some very troubling symptoms

I was able to see my PCP the next day but he had no idea what was wrong with me. He refered me to a Specialist. They said the first available appointment was in three and a half months. I told them what was happening and that my PCP had no idea what was going on, and they were able to squeeze me in....in only 2 months, with a different doctor in the network.

My wife had a mole on her leg. It was new. It kept growing. She showed her PCP, and they refered her to a Dermatologist. She called up. Nine months. No shit. Nine months. She told them she had a skin growth that her PCP was refering to them on, described it, etc. Didn't matter.

Nine months.

I challenge anyone to claim that we don't have crazy wait times in this country to my face.

[johnlal]

22. A friend of mine...

was told she had a disturbing spot on her mammogram, and she needed to see a surgeon. The Surgeon said he could see her in three weeks.

[hunter]

23. People who don't have money or insurance often wait until they are dead.

It's the people who wait until they are almost dead who cost U.S. society the most money.

And if you have no money, and no insurance, and you are not almost dead, well then, they don't want to see you until you are.

So, if a person waits until they are dead, is this factored into the averages as an infinity? If it is, or even if it is factored in as the number of years that person might have lived with appropriate treatment, then the U.S. has some very long wait times...

[IChing]

25. I had insurance and money and it took 4.5 months

from when my doctor said I needed an Epidural steroid injections to when I got the shot.



So your argument is wrong
did you even READ the study?

[hunter]

26. Sorry, I think we need a flippancy tag on DU.

I was being flippant :P

I pretty much live on the bleeding edge of these public health issues, I'm probably much closer to the mess than a Business Week reporter gets.

[KT2000]

24. How about 2+ months wait

for a chipped wrist bone that left my right hand immobile.
To the dr's credit she read my file an saw that I needed my hand to work so she got me in 3 weeks earlier.

[Vinca]

30. Let's see . . . I have no insurance and I need a hip replacement.

How long do you imagine I will wait as opposed to a Canadian??

[Matsubara]

31. I've never had to wait more than 30 min. or so. here in Japan.

And at the pediatrician's and dentist, we are usually seen within 5 minutes, even if we just walk in without an appointment.

In the US, they overbook and then make you wait forever even if you HAVE an appointment!

:puke:

[scorpiogirl]

33. We have an HMO

My husband was knocked down by our dog. Turns out he had pulled some muscles and had a pinched nerve in shoulder/arm. It was very painful. He pretty saw our primary care doc right away. They referred him to an orthopedic surgeon and was seen five days later. She prescribed physical therapy. He had to wait TWO WEEKS for his first appointment and then because there were no other appointments available, he had to wait 6 days in between his first and second appointments. When I called to see if he could be seen some place else before his first appointment, I was told his closest next option is 40 miles away round-trip. Meanwhile, he cannot even sit down for longer than a minute or two. He couldn't sleep, work, etc. I bitched loudly to the insurance and medical group. No one gave a shit. Now rates went up again, fortunately, my husband's company is absorbing the cost. The premium is over $1,200 a month, of which we are paying over $500. Where's the freaking value? My friend who's a physical therapist and repub actually defended the two week wait, saying that was standard. Does that make it right?

[Tracer]

34. Two years ago, I had some disturbing symptoms, and ...

... described them to the gynecologist's office. I got an appointment the following day.

... the gynocologist was worried, and put me in the hospital for surgery 2 days later.

It turned out to be cancer (I'm OK though!).

So ---- not everyone has had a horrible experience. Perhaps it sometimes depends on whether the doctor recognizes a serious situation when it is presented to him/her.

------
P.S. The waiting time in my regular oncologist's waiting room is approximately 10 minutes. Those people are efficient!!