Michael Moore got almost everything right about Canada's health care system.

[glarius]

As a Canadian, the only thing I would quibble with is that the last poll I heard of, over 90% of our citizens were satisfied with our care. I believe he said 78%. Michael is a good person and I hope this film of his is instrumental in your country getting universal health care....as you certainly deserve. I was glad to see him shoot down the lies!

[eleny]

1. It was a very strong hour

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. He has a heart of gold. He really does. I am so happy his opening night numbers are so good.

Looks like he has another blockbuster under his belt. I'm hoping this issue will FINALLY get THE PEOPLE to fight back against this establishment and the huge Corporations. We shall see. If this doesn't wake them up, I don't know what will. Hell, the 60 year old man who phoned in to the LK show said he and his wife have NO INSURANCE and STILL wanted Moore to "stop saying America is bad!" :crazy: That's so insane.

[senseandsensibility]

4. What did he say about the numbers?

I only saw the very end of the interview. By the way, I saw SICKO today and it was excellent. I'm glad to hear it's successful, but did he give any details?

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. No. Larry King said he just got word that the opening night numbers were HUGE, but no specific

numbers were quoted. I'm going to see it tomorrow and can't wait!

[senseandsensibility]

11. Enjoy the film tomorrow!

Just remember to take Kleenex if you're at all prone to tears. I forgot, and there were a few times when I really needed one!

[mmonk]

23. I went to see it tonight. It was packed.

Now hopefully all those people will spread the word.

[rubberducky]

3. I`m so envious of your health care system.

56 years old and lost my health care 1 month ago. I get sick, I die. Plain and simple. When I lost my healthcare I started making arrangments for "if something happens". Luckily I have a wonderful doc, he lowered his fees and just lets me call in for scripts for many things that I`m being treated for. I feel like a lost ship on the sea. No more health care until 65. Sicko has it right. You get sick,you just die. Never forget how lucky you are in Canada for your gov taking an interest in your health.

[glarius]

6. Let's pray that Michael's movie spurs your government to do something

about universal health care. Seeing as it is being so universally praised, not just abroad but in the U.S.A too, the right wingers can't just dismiss it as they have his other documentaries!

[rubberducky]

7. Thanks! Without MM nobody would pay any attention.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

14. Uninformed crap...nt

Sid

[Crome]

18. Care to elaborate?

What about that is crap? The Democratic Party taking money from those who cause our healthcare to be so costly, or was it something else?

[SidDithers]

21. The rightwing talking points about waiting times...

you are grossly misinformed. Educate yourself.

Sid

[Crome]

24. So

Perhaps I should stop watching British Parliament. They keep talking about how much of a problem it is; I guess they are making that up then.

[SidDithers]

25. The British Parliament is talking about Canadian Health Care?...

'cause that was the subject of the OP.

Sid

[Crome]

60. Sorry

Sorry I did not get to you sooner.

No; they don't talk about Canadian health care, but they do discuss socialized heath care.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. And all socialized health care is exactly the same

all over the world, eh? Sheesh, if you really believe that, no wonder you guys think socialism is so EVIL.

[ProudDad]

85. Health Care is expensive

But it's a much better use for the Earth's resources than another yacht for some fat ass health insurance company CEO...

Every poll suggests that the Brits complain mightily about their system but would tear down the Parliament building if they tried to take it away.

Could we say the same here?

Well, we could about Medicare but that's.....Horror!!!! SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE -- GAK!!!!!

[blondeatlast]

98. Well, you didn't have to wait long for your funeral. LOL! nt

[sam sarrha]

72. they use the same propagandists on them they use on us ..dipstick

[Spazito]

15. Oh, my, my, my.....

you must turn off the right-wing shills, it will be better for your health. Once you turn them off and start doing your homework, you will find you have been sold a bill of goods and are, in turn, trying to re-sell them here.

I gather you didn't see Sicko and I bet you don't plan to, you should, again, it would be better for your health.

[Crome]

22. Your dime!

I get my healthcare free of charge so MM's nonsense is of no consequence to me. The question is what are you going to do to make sure that all; and I mean all, get QUALITY healthcare. Not some nonsense derived from some utopian fantasy.

[Contrary1]

26. If you are getting your healthcare "free of charge" (to you anyway)...

it's already on my dime, so what are you bitching about?

[Crome]

31. Notice

I am not bitching about anything, but yall are.


Pardon; I must admit that I have had one too many. I would really like to discuss this issue in a civil and; pardon me, sober frame of mind.

I will say this; socialized medicine is not a bad idea. As a matter of fact it is a good idea. The problem is the implementation and having the majority of the population agree with it without having to pull teeth to get it done.

[Contrary1]

40. Well, on that we agree...

I have had one too many this evening also.

Here's my gripe. I have a cousin who suffered burns over 93% of his body. He lost his leg, his job, his wife. He cannot work. He is a young man...only 33. He has to fight for every bit of care he gets. His mother, who is 66 years old, helps take care of him. What will become of him when she is gone?

I have helped them financially. I bought him a Rascal Scooter. My husband and I are approaching retirement.

I know the Republicans believe that the family should pick up the slack, but then what happens when the family runs out of money?

[Crome]

47. Thank you

We know what the fundamental differences are between the political parties; agreed? Unfortunately our system does not have an organized support structure. One must seek out; on their own time, assistance. Granted I regurgitated right talking points, but that was to demonstrate the thinking of a lot of people in this country. Sir Thomas Moore had a wonderful idea; a great idea, but we as a society are not truly ready for it. Let's be honest; can you imagine a socialist system under the current bloviated; lazy frame of mind that our bureaucracy now resides? Are we to assume that if we venture into a non-profit way of life that their motivation will be any better? I think not! We have a long road to travel before we can begin to travel down that road; hopefully sooner rather than later, but not now.

[Contrary1]

63. I really worry about this

I have had cancer. We already pay about $700. a month for insurance through my husband's employer. Right now, his contract is with GM. Very iffy. If he were to lose his job, no insurance would cover me, given my medical history.

There should be something in place for those who have worked, paid taxes, and lost their jobs through no fault of their own.

We have some money saved up. But, through experience; I can tell you this: a major illness could wipe us out. I have seen people at the pharmacy who cannot afford a full month of meds. I have actually, (anonymously) paid for some of these folks' prescriptions, because I cannot stand to see them go without.

I really do worry; not so much that feel entitled...I just don't want to die for lack of care. People should not have to choose between eating and getting their medications.

I do agree with you that this bureaucracy would not be so willing to give up their financial perks to accommodate decent health care without a fight.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudDad]

86. No one is suggesting a "Socialized System"

like Great Britain's. There's no way it could be passed here...

On the other hand, a Single-payer Health Care financing system which takes the leaches in the for profit health insurance Mafia out of the equation would work here and could be passed here with enough bi-partisan citizen action to light a fire under the congress and after * leaves our White House.

Check it out here -- A Summary of HR676 -- Single Payer Health care for all

http://www.house.gov/conyers/news_hr676_2.htm

[Spazito]

32. LOL, a suggestion, look up the meaning of "subtle"

it might help you sell your "message" better, it will still be a false message but, at least, it will not be so obvious.

[Bridget Burke]

92. Alas, Crome's "free" health care was not enough...

[blondeatlast]

99. But it was quick and painless! LOL! nt

[hatrack]

16. Got any numbers or statistics to back that up?

Hint: AEI and Cato don't count.

BTW, when you say things like "European socialist type", it really tends to blow your cover.

:eyes:

[Crome]

27. A cover

Sorry; I did not think that I was using a cover. I do not pretend to be anything other than what I am. Still though; I am still waiting for an answer to my questions.

[nonconformist]

19. You are very uniformed.

I was going to say something mean that would likely be deleted, so I won't.

[Crome]

61. Please feel free

There is nothing you can say that will hurt my feelings.

I have been shot at, mortared and bombed on; a little punch in the nose from you is of little consequence.
That does come with the disclaimer that you may receive the same in kind.

[Contrary1]

20. My friend in Australia waits and waits to see a doctor...

about 2 or 3 days. When her mother had a stroke, health care not only took care of all costs pertaining to her rehab...hospital bed delivered to home, bedside commode, walker, wheelchair, nurse visits 3 times a week, home visit from doctor as needed, her medications sorted by day, but also arranged for someone to come once a week to tidy up her bedroom and bathroom at the unheard cost of $1.00.

When it came time that she could no longer stay at home, she went to a nursing home at no cost to the family.

[glarius]

28. Your post about Canada's health care is nothing but falsehoods!

We Canadians DON'T wait months or years for treatment!
You say "What if your illness will not wait for the red tape to make its way to you?" What red tape? You don't know what you are talking about. My husband had timely treatment from one of the world's leading heart specialists, in Toronto. We just showed up at the Toronto General Hospital to see the doctor, and everything was taken care of. There was no red tape, and NO BILL. People like you are a disgrace to your country. Instead of trying to help the U.S.A get universal health care, which my country and ALL THOSE COUNTRIES WHO HAVE IT are happy with, (so unless we are all suffering from mass insanity, it must be working) you are trying to frighten people. SHAME ON YOU.

[TommyO]

34. Poor level of care, my ass!

The vast majority of people in Canada are happy with their system of universal health care, just check out what some Canadians have posted on this very thread.

Enjoy what will be a very short stay here at DU.

[Crome]

39. So

Disagreeing with Canadians is a punched ticket to a tombstone? I don't get it. Why should my stay be short? I have been a member for over a year or so.

Just because I don't think that socialized medicine is a prescription for good health I am to be silenced?

I hear ya; don't go kicking the anthill, we don't want to disturb the bliss.

[SidDithers]

46. Maybe you should spend less time watching...

British Parliament, and more time talking to Canadians.

Sid

[Crome]

53. Canadians?

Sorry; don't know any Canadians: not that I am opposed to knowing Canadians.

However; if any Canadians are willing to know me and converse their views then I am also not opposed to listening to Canadians.

[TommyO]

54. At least one Canadian has already posted on this thread

[glarius]

55. For heaven's sake...just READ my posts, Spazito's posts and others here

in this thread, and you should be able to figure out that you are completely wrong about Canadian health care!

[Crome]

58. Are you 100% sure about that?

I am a "disgrace" to my country; so you proclaimed. You demonized me without any hesitation. This is clearly an emotional response to my disagreement with your point of view. How can I then take you seriously? I certainly understand that there will be differences of opinion, but when one hurls discomforts towards the other well then, one loses a bit of credibility.

[glarius]

67. You make no sense!.....get some sleep!

The fact is.....YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT OUR HEALTH CARE!....We who live in Canada and use it, are content with it and wish our friends (and in many cases relatives) in the U.S.A. could benefit from a similar system. End of story..............

[Skittles]

90. you are a right wing whore

that is what you are

[alarimer]

93. The OP is a Canadian

Canadians know more about their own health care system than you do. So stop being a fucking idiot and actually listen to them instead of parroting right-wing talking points.

If free health care is good enough for you, why the fuck isn't it good enough for everyone else in this country?

[Big Pappa]

65. Crome has left the building

n/t.

[SidDithers]

71. Not surprised...

thanks for the heads up.

Sid

[nonconformist]

75. I miss him already. nt

[Canuckistanian]

82. Too bad I missed him

I would have given him an earful.

Like glarius and Spazito and just about every other citizen of our country, I think our system is great.

And I don't see why America can't have one like it (except that it would put some insurance compnies out of business :cry:)

[Richard Steele]

94. Not with a bang, but a whimper. LAMEST...blaze of glory...EVER! nm

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. It appears your year is up

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=182718

[ProudDad]

87. Canada doesn't have "Socialized Medicine"

That's why you're getting heat. You're relaying a right-wing falsehood.

Canada is a country, like every other industrialized country, whose citizens have decided that when it comes to health care they are all in this together. They have agreed that they will all pay into the system according to their means and they will receive care according to their need.

Please do some homework first:

http://www.house.gov/conyers/news_hr676_2.htm

Thanks :hi:

[Doremus]

96. Once again, it's not "socialized" medicine. It's NATIONAL HEALTH CARE.

Not only is it inaccurate to use the misnomer "socialized medicine," your continued insistence in using the term despite being told of its inaccuracy is probably an indication of your true motives for being here. Nevertheless, I will spend some time trying to educate you on the off chance you are simply naive.


Socialized medicine is a system in which the government OWNS the hospitals, equipment and infrastructure. Doctors, nurses and other health practitioners are employees of the GOVERNMENT.

National health care is a SINGLE-PAYER system.
Medicare is an example of a SINGLE-PAYER system.

Medicare patients:
1. Choose their own doctors, specialists and facilities
2. Pay premiums and deductibles like anyone else
3. Enjoy the economic benefits and bargaining power of being part of a huge group health plan administered by an entity that is not profit-motivated.

Instead of parroting rightwing lies, why don't you educate yourself and help us make health care available for everyone, not just those who can afford it?

[glarius]

103. I have one correction fo make about our health care:

You are right in calling it a single-payer system. Doctors and hospitals make all the decisions. The government simply pays the bills. Where I differ with your explanation of our system is that we do NOT pay monthly premiums. Our taxes take care of everything....:)

[Spazito]

105. Actually, glarious, I do pay a monthly premium

I pay 49.00 (individual premium) a month to Alberta Health for my coverage. I am retired so it isn't employer paid any more. It is dependent on income, 49.00 dollars is the max anyone would pay, those below a certain level do not have to pay monthly premiums and those above the minimum set for income but below the cap of 49.00 will pay less than 49.00 but more than 0.00.

While I lived in B.C. I paid 56.00 dollars a month (individual premium). Those who can afford to pay something do so, those who cannot should not and do not have to pay.

It is a re-affirmation of our belief in "the common good".

That is not to say our taxes don't pay the major cost of the provision of healthcare, I just wanted to correct the premium issue.

[glarius]

106. I wasn't aware of that....I'm retired too....here in Ontario we don't pay anything

other than our taxes, so far as I know. I don't know of anyone who is paying extra, but I could be wrong....Thanks for the correction.

[Spazito]

107. Each province sets their criteria as to whether there are

premiums to be paid or not and, if so, how much and by whom but always within the Canada Health Act laws.

[LanternWaste]

97. Actually, the anthill is our current system...

Actually, the anthill is our current system-- so kick all you want.

However, here's a head's-up for you: when you use the precise same bullet points against universal health care used by RW radio, you may to have valid sources to cite to back up your numbers.

[Contrary1]

42. No! No very short stay...

People need to discuss this. If we can't listen to other opinions, we are not any better than those we criticize.

[Crome]

48. :)

Thank you

[ProudDad]

88. Please, sober up

"Pardon; I must admit that I have had one too many. I would really like to discuss this issue in a civil and; pardon me, sober frame of mind."

and read up on the facts.

Thanks :hi:

[Occulus]

79. We've heard those "other opinions" for over a decade

and they've been WRONG for over a decade.

Sometimes, there's no room for "other opinions" because those other opinions are just stark staring wrong. Sometimes, there is no "other side of the story" because the facts of the situation are just so bleedin' obvious in one particular direction.

This is one of those situations. We don't have to tolerate people saying those other systems don't work, you have to wait forever, people aren't happy with it there, etc., because they are just plain incorrect. Repeatedly saying otherwise is disruptive.

[greyghost]

52. Agreed...

I'm not Canadian but I spend enough time there to know that you're right.

[Selatius]

56. To answer your questions

1. It's not free. Medicare for seniors is not "free" in any sense of the word. We all pay into it to ensure seniors don't die of illnesses that can be treated. Would you rather your grandfather's medical costs be born by you entirely? Or that we all chip in and pay a slice of his bill in return that when our time of sickness comes you pay back a slice of your own?

2. The notion of long wait times is a tired bugaboo that evidence from France and Canada and others doesn't bear out. If anything, the wait times in the US are WORSE than in Canada, except if you're rich, especially if you are in an area suffering massive population booms that the medical infrastructure has not yet caught up with. The World Health Organization does not think the US has the best health care in the world. They dispute this idea that the US has the best system, and given the choice, I side with medical professionals' opinion in the WHO over your opinion.

3. There are no wait times for emergency care in countries like Canada or France. If you got shot or had a heart attack or lost your limb in an industrial accident or something of that type, you're going to get immediate help. The same happens here in the US, except not everybody has access to insurance, a whopping 45 million of them. For those who don't, they have to pay the price 100 percent, which is likely to drive a fair number into bankruptcy, which has an economic toll on the rest of the economy.

4. Health insurance companies play both sides of the aisle in terms of political contributions, but it's not true to say that because somebody is a Democrat it means he automatically takes PAC contributions from Aetna or Cigna or United Health or any other health insurance entity. If all Democrats were the same, nobody would be proposing Medicare For All acts like Conyers and Kucinich have and several others who have co-sponsored the legislation.

5. The Democratic Party should not be thought of as a real political party in any sense of the word. It's more like a coalition of disparate political interests, each wanting a pet issue of their own addressed. Just because there is one political interest in the party that opposes univeral health care does not automatically mean there is not another political interest within the same party that wants universal care. If a Blue Dog Democrat or a New Democrat does not want universal health care, a Progressive Caucus Democrat may actually want it.

To say that both parties are exactly the same on this issue is nothing short of intellectual laziness.

[Monk06]

57. Crome by your own admission in post #31 you're drunk. Sleep it off and and BTW....

you know shite about Canadian Health care.

I go to a walk in clinic six blocks from my
apartment. I can go any day seven days a week
(four hours on Sunday). I have a choice of four
doctors who all have access to my records.

In the last four months I went on two circuits
of antibiotics, had a chest X-Ray, UltraSound and
a CT scan plus three visits with a lung specialist.

All these services were covered by my $35.00 per
month BCMed premium. If you are behind in your
premium payments you are still entitled to treatment
because (Drum Roll)

It is illegal in Canada for the government to cut off
benefits due to unpaid premiums

[Crome]

59. I hear ya

However; I did not state that I was drunk. I said: "Pardon; I must admit that I have had one too many. I would really like to discuss this issue in a civil and; pardon me, sober frame of mind."

As far as you know that means I had one too many kicks to the groin. Granted the "sober" reference leads to your assumption, but that by no means suggests that I am drunk. However; you are right, I know "shite" about Canadian Health Care. Please provide me to an itemized comparison of the Canadian version of Health Care and the USA version. I just want to know what the better system is. All I get when I ask is a bunch of rhetoric and hyperbole.

[Monk06]

62. No worries man. I'm half cranked myself. But health care is the silver

bullet issue that will bring down the RePugs
even more so than illegal immigration because
every working person on the left and right is
suffering from lack of affordable health care.

I don't have to provide you with an itemized
comparison between US and Canadian health care.
One statistic will do.

The US citizen through TAXES pays 40% more for
health care than a Canadian citizen. Every Canadian
citizen has health care while over 40 Million Americans
do not have health insurance and hence, no health care
except charity ER.

To put the in perspective Canada's population
is ......... 40 Million

[ProudDad]

89. "I just want to know what the better system is."

Every fucking one of them is better than the good ole' (GREEDY) U.S. of fucking A.

I'd take ANY of their systems of universal care, INCLUDING CUBA (Hell, maybe especially Cuba -- their DELIVERY system is 2nd to none) over the health care rationed to the rich, some, occasionally for the middle class and "fuck the 47 MILLION rest of you" system we've got here!!!!

Especially since I'm one of the 47 MILLION who not only don't have health insurance but under any candidate's plan except Dennis Kucinich STILL COULDN'T FUCKING AFFORD IT!!!!

[fishwax]

64. boy, you're all over the place with that post

not surprised, I suppose, to see you've already been tombstoned.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. I would rather wait than get no care at all

Seems like pretty much of a no-brainer to me. Besides, the OP clearly points out that the vast majority of Canadians are very happy with their health care. And Moore makes that clear in SICKO as well.

Welcome to DU and enjoy your stay. :hi:

[tbyg52]

80. Huh....?

That's my general response to this post.

Something it brought to mind--I don't want to *fight* the medical insurance companies. I want to *eliminate* them!

[ramapo]

5. Interesting

About the only thing you hear down here in the popular culture, MSM, and from the conservative talk show hosts, is for people to not wish for the Canadian system because you'll have to wait months for your treatment/operation, implying you just might die in the process.


We never hear the statistics showing satisfaction with the Canadian system.

[glarius]

8. That's how they keep you from demanding universal care...thru lies!

NOBODY in this country would give up our socialized medicine!

[Lasher]

29. A lot of people don't like the Canadian healthcare system.

I have noticed that none of them seem to be Canadians, however.

[glarius]

35. LOL.....n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. The Insurance companies and their $$$$$ put all those negative stories out. This film is

going to be a HUGE eye opener for people willing to see it.

[Contrary1]

13. I've looked, but cannot find a link that supports that.

Can you help me out? I would love to post it at a Republic dominated message board I frequent.

Thanks! :hi:

[Spazito]

17. Here is a document that might help you....

· Canadians are expressing widening support for social investment, particularly for Health Care (93%) vis-à-vis other priorities such as Debt and Deficit Reduction (62%), Public Security (62%) and Level of Taxation (52%).

· Support for a public, universal health care system has strengthened in recent months, while support for 2-tier medicine and privatization has dwindled on virtually all indicators.

http://www.atkinsonfoundation.ca/publications/ekos-newser3_letterhead.doc

It is a comprehensive poll done in 2003.

[glarius]

30. Thanks Spazito.....I knew the statistic but didn't know where to find it!

:)

[Spazito]

36. You're welcome!

I am now keeping a file in my favorites on our healthcare as it seems to come in handy to disprove at least some of the myths, lies, etc, that are being perpetrated, especially now that MM's movie is out.

[glarius]

41. Did you see Anderson Cooper's show after Larry King?...He had people

on supposedly giving the "other side" of the story. He had people saying things like..."some of Moore's examples of unfortunate outcomes" were 10 or 15 years old. Dr. Sanjay Guptah said Canada has long wainting times....They pretended they were just trying to be honest! The thrust of the report seemed to be, the U.S.A system needs some help, but NOT universal health care.

[Spazito]

43. All they have, pathetically, is the issue of wait times

which, as you and I know, is way overblown. The intent behind making the issue wait times is to try and divert the focus from the REAL issue, receiving needed care without going bankrupt/losing ones home as well as being able to go to a doctor when you feel unwell without worrying if you have enough money in the bank to cover the visit or what you will have to cut from the grocery bill in order to see the doctor.

The red herring of wait times is all they have and, boy, are they hammering that one.

[glarius]

45. The thing about wait times is silly since Americans say they have wait times

too. No one in my family has had to wait, so far, although I know some people do, within reason. I've never heard of anyone with a serious problem waiting an unreasonable amount of time.

[Spazito]

49. I can say I, too, know of no one who has waited for care beyond

6 weeks or so for tests that were not emergent needs. Having two children, 5 grandchildren, extended family and family members who have since died after receiving excellent and timely care, none of them have had the "horrors" of the dreaded "wait times".

We know the wait times for hip replacements, etc, need to be reduced in order to enhance the quality of life for those in need but they are a minority of cases.

[sam sarrha]

77. my wife had to wait 6 years here for a hip replacement.. they refused Xrays to diagnose till the

ball disintegrated in the socket, making her an invalid and nearly bankrupting our family, we cant live on one income and her 2/3 and all the deductibles from the new crappy insurance.. we were on the edge anyway. we have had 4 GOOD high paying jobs sent to China/Mexico/India since Bu$h was appointed dickTattar. and have moved to 3 different time zones chasing lower paying jobs

they said it was her knee or her leg was too short..actually it was..her hip ball was disintegrating and she began to list 1/2 inch to the right, till it totally disintegrated, she screamed so loud when i put her in the wheel chair i had to wear ear plugs. limping on the bad leg put a lot of stress on her left hip and that ruined that one too.. she got her hip done, but the process crippled us both, physically and financially

so quit spewing the party bullshit propaganda, the facts are in the Freepers are just flying monkeys of corporate Fascism... if she had been treated properly, she could have gotten the cheap and easy treatment that costs 1/2 ..been back to work in 1/2 the time and i wouldn't have ruptured that disk in my neck getting her into the wheel chair.. for 5 months.. which she became trapped in between double doors at work for 2 hours after work because the building wasn't handicapped accessible, luckily the security guard found her, next time we are going to pay for the Xray and raise holy HELL.

i am so sick of freepers on this subject i really feel like kicking their ass's.. but i cant lose any work or they would find out how bad the medical system is first hand.. they dont even come around when their own families suffer this shit.. f'n brain damaged

[Spazito]

78. sam, I am so saddened by your post, this should NOT happen!

It horrifies me that this can happen to "neighbours" on one side while neighbours on the other side can get the help needed in a timely manner. I am heartsick knowing that not 4 hours away, just across a dividing line, someone cannot get the care I can get without a second thought, without having to drain my bank account or put my home up for sale if the care is available at all.

I am so sorry.

[greyghost]

51. Anyone with an HMO in America...

is subject to wait times.

[NewJeffCT]

95. Business Week recently debunked a lot of the "wait time" myth

I know, Business Week is a bastion of socialism and the far left liberal media, but the US was rated average to below average when it came to wait times to see a physician for a non-routine appointment.

Most of the Western European countries and Japan had less of a wait than the US, though the US did fare slightly better than Canada.

[ProudDad]

91. Gee, they didn't mention

my girlfriend and I waiting in the ER of our local county hospital for 11 1/2 hours, giving up 'cause by midnight she still hadn't been seen by a fucking doctor...

AND THEY SENT HER A FUCKING BILL FOR OVER 200 FUCKING DOLLARS!!!!

That's amerikan health "care" in a fucking nutshell!!!!

[Lasher]

37. Care for some more ammo?

Has Canada got the Cure?
The Physicians for a National Health Program single payer plan

[barb162]

33. How does it deal with cosmetic surgery?

And are there long waits to see doctors or not? I have heard a lot of different things about the Canadian system.

[Spazito]

38. Cosmetic surgery is not covered unless it is a medical

necessity. For example, a face lift to hide age is not covered but facial reconstruction needed after an accident is covered.

Seems a fair line to draw, imo.

[barb162]

44. Yes, a fair line.

[greyghost]

50. n/t

[orleans]

66. i'm going to watch mm on the late rerun (in about twenty minutes)

i had to watch the olbermann rerun earlier (because i was out seeing sicko--and getting depressed)

[Lindsey]

69. I'm seeing it tomorow and I can't wait. I'm watching him on the repeat

of Larry King now.

[cgrindley]

68. I don't think Americans would tolerate some features

of our system. Some Americans seem to be doctor and prescription crazy, real health care gluttons, and that doesn't really fly. The system isn't going to give people 75 prescriptions for all the made up nonsense that they feel they suffer from. Likewise if a person is wicked old, they probably won't get an operation right away that a young person would get. And rightly so. The health care system should be directed to preventative care of the young, not wasted on the final six months of some old geezer's life. My father who is 74 had to wait nearly 6 months to have his carotid arteries cleared out. I've heard of people about that age being turned down for heart bypass operations. And again, I think that this is entirely fair.

Americans have spent too long living with a system that encourages health care waste and over spending. I doubt they could ever adapt to a rationed system focused on prevention. I also don't think that many Americans would accept a more sterile and distant set of health care providers. So many Americans seem to want personal and fuzzy relationships with their doctors. I much prefer to be treated like a number or a science problem.

Not meaning to rant on, but sometimes, really, all that extraneous nonsense in the American system makes my blood boil. My wife and I are having a child this fall, and I have to say that most of the things I've seen in the pre-natal process have shocked me. Birthing rooms set up like little bedrooms or hotel rooms serving champange afterwards. It's just so freaking retarded. Birth is a relatively simple medical procedure and should be treated as such.

[laundry_queen]

81. So much is wrong here, where to start...

Old people get treated just as well as young people, in my experience. I've had 2 grandfathers, both in their 90's, get timely procedures for various ills. In fact, my one grandfather lives on the US border, went to the ER in the US (his provincial health care pays for it because it's a border town). The American doctor told him it was fatal cancer and to go home to die, which wouldn't have taken long because he couldn't keep anything down. My grandfather refused the diagnosis and transferred to a larger center in Canada, where doctors worked hard to come up with a diagnosis. He underwent many tests and it was discovered what he had was NOT cancer, and was curable with some antibiotics and antacids. That was 4 years ago. He's still alive, thanks to how the Canadians system treats the elderly.

As for birth being a 'relatively simple medical procedure', it's obvious YOU aren't the one going through it. If there's one beef I do have with the Canadian system, it's that new moms in small communities that have older hospitals are bunked together sharing a bathroom. Let me tell you how fun that is, 2-4 women bleeding like crazy sharing a bathroom. I definitely do think private rooms for new moms are the way to go. It's near impossible to get sleep when your roomie's baby is screaming all night. Birth is not just a medical procedure, it's a life changing family event. Life changing for the woman especially. I will say though that the nurses I have had in the Canadian system have gone above and beyond their duties to make it a memorable experience. It's not their fault the hospitals are old. :P

[annabanana]

83. hopefully the birth of your child will help you deal with

affect issues

[glarius]

84. What you have described in no way resembles any experience I or my

family or friends have had. For instansce, you said..."I also don't think that many Americans would accept a more sterile and distant set of health care providers. So many Americans seem to want personal and fuzzy relationships with their doctors. I much prefer to be treated like a number or a science problem."(my italics)....This is rather ludicrous....I have nothing else to say.

[Richard Steele]

102. Well...

...what it DOES resemble is a slightly-rephrased rehash
of the same tired, disproven RW lies about Canadian health
care.

The first two paragraphs are all about how we in the USA
are getting TOO MUCH health care, and Canadians have long
waits for simple outpatient procedures.
(Never mind the 47 million of us who don't get any simple
outpatient procedures at all...)

And the last paragraph: Canadian doctors treat their patients
like numbers or lab rats"science problems"... real subtle!:eyes:

[Richard Steele]

100. Canadian doctors treat patients like numbers and us 'Merkins wouldn't like that, you say?

And we'd lose all the perks that CURRENTLY make
a US hospital stay such a SuperMagicFunHappytime
experience?

And the problem with the current US system is that
it's just providing TOO DARN MUCH care?

Hmmm....


















NOPE, TOO SUBTLE!

Please try again.

[jollyreaper2112]

101. What I heard from a friend of my mom's

This woman is Canadian. She said that the quality of Canadian care had declined in the past but has been improving in recent years. The cause of the decline? Turning to the US for advice on how to improve problems in the system.

[glarius]

104. A recent poll said 93% Canadians want to keep our system...That should tell you something.

n/t