I don't care if Rush and Hannity are attacking Hillary-she's still not on our side

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

this "with her or against her" shit by the party-line zombies has to stop NOW.
they can pick her apart on the rw talking points. The left will go after her on her rightwing, corporate warmonger voting record.

A clinton win would be disater for the left. Do we really need to go back to the days of a fake dem trying to make rw issues like welfare reform and 'free'trade acceptable to liberals simply because they're comng from a dem?

It's only through the work of progressive activists while the clintons sat on their asses over the last 6 years that the dems took congress back. and now these bush-enablers want to take advantage of that win and go back to the days of the DLC.

[LittleClarkie]

1. She's not on HER side, Gracey?

Which side is she on then?

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

3. d'oh

fixed it

[jody]

2. IMO a Republican win would be the real disaster for the Democratic Party. n/t

[Missy M]

4. I would hardly accuse either Clinton of sitting on their asses

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

6. right-i forgot bill was actually boating with poppy bush

and getting proclaimed 'her son' by barbra bush.
hillary stayed busy voting for the bankruptcy bill

[cynatnite]

19. Yeah, those lazy Clintons...

Bill raised how many billions for his charity? Clinton Global Initiative. That's about the time he fired back at Chris Wallace on Faux. Yeah, and she's sat on her ass while she opposed the torture bill, worked on issues such as getting health care for children and others. That's not counting on many issues she lines up with most dems.

:eyes:

Keep in mind one thing. There are very few politicians who a person will agree with on EVERYTHING. It's just unreasonable, IMO.

And I'm not willing to cut off my nose to spite my face and let another repuke in the WH because I don't like a dem candidate.

[Missy M]

24. George H.W. Bush and President Clinton were working together..

on the Tsunami Relief. Will you condemn him for going to Gerald Ford's funeral? After all, W. and Poppy were there but I guess paying your respects to another president is being a traitor. I don't think Hillary has spent her six plus years in the senate just voting on the Bankruptcy Bill, you have to come up with something better than that.

[NNN0LHI]

5. Become a dittohead then. You have all their talking points down pat n/t

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

9. the 'with us or agaisnt' bullshit again

yeah, rush really goes on about how clinton's not a liberal.

sorry you can't understand the concept of criticism from the left.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. Actually when you look at her voting recrod

you will notice that in some domestic policies she is ok... but otherwise she is QUITE CONSERVATIVE

This is not a talking point from Rushie druggie limbaugh, but an honest assestmet

Just becuase they have a D behind their name does not mean they are not conservative, and it is high time poeople realize this

[cynatnite]

7. You made me a believer....

We would cut off our noses to spite our face. :eyes:

[asjr]

8. Well then, if she is the nominee, don't vote for her.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

10. believe me, i won't

and don't be surprised if a lot of stay home or go third party.

[saracat]

11. So ,out of spite you would let the GOP win? Now that's productive.Not..

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

16. hillary and mccain are indistinguishable on 90% of issues

as are hillary and giuliani

if the clintons and the carville crowd get back in power and screw up the last 6 years of hard work by the left, it's time to think of options outside of the democratic party.

the simple way to avoid this problem is to not allow the powers that be to force this one on us and take the left for granted.
i'm simply astonished at this new zero tolerance policy by many on this board for criticism of a woman previously referred to here as 'the human windsock"

[cynatnite]

20. Prove it...

Prove they are the same on 90% of the issues. I'm calling you out on it.

[MonkeyFunk]

28. That's just patently untrue

I also challenge you to demonstrate that.

[bling bling]

30. I will be the THIRD request for you to prove your statement. Put up or shut up.

Seriously. PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

34. a few

the war, bankruptcy bill, flag-burning, free trade

it's not that hard to research

[Beaverhausen]

36. do they agree on women's right to choose? Minimum Wage? Stem Cell research?

Environmental protections? Healthcare? Social Security?

[LostinVA]

68. Quit presenting facts, BH

Just make stuff up, it's easier.

[PassingFair]

78. McCain and Guiliani probably do.....

don't you think?

[Beaverhausen]

80. if they do, they should run as democrats

don't you think?

[PassingFair]

84. Why? Centrists are Centrists.

What does it matter what party they're in?

[Hippo_Tron]

89. To answer your question about McCain, no

He flip-flopped on Roe v Wade saying that it should be overturned and "left up to the states" so there goes choice. Lets see how he votes on the minimum wage bill when it comes up for a vote.

Hillary voted against the Military Commissions Act and McCain voted for it despite his supposedly strong stance on torture. I could go on and on about the votes that Hillary has cast and the ones that McCain has cast. The fact is that while I'm no Hillary supporter and am pissed as hell at her for supporting the war in the first place and not speaking up when it wasn't popular, I still acknowledge the fact that having her in the White House would be far better than any Republican.

[bling bling]

39. Well if it's not hard to research, why don't you do it then?

Start with the bankruptcy bill. That should be an interesting revelation for you. Then, prove your statement regarding how she votes 90% of the time like McCain. That, my friend, will be an exercise that will blow your mind.

But we both know you won't bother because that would take initiative, work, and thought and opinions are so much more fun when we pull them straight out of our buttholes rather than basing them on reality. So please just stop posting information that you pull from your butthole. That's all.

[cynatnite]

40. That's hardly 90%...

you can add just about anyone else to that SHORT list.

[onenote]

41. flag desecration amendment roll call

Clinton: nay
McCain: aye

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00189

The fact that you believe that McCain and Clinton vote the same way 90 percent of the time doesn't make it true. It just establishes that you don't care about the facts.

[rinsd]

62. ZING! (nt)

[LostinVA]

67. She came out against the bankruptcy bill

And didn't vote on it because her spouse was having serious follow-up surgery.

You are wrong. Her voting record is quite good, even if it's not perfect.

[Hippo_Tron]

90. In fairness she voted for the 2001 bankruptcy bill

Which her husband vetoed when he was President. Neither should have been passed, but the 2005 bill was certainly worse than the 2001 bill.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

91. nope-you're wrong

she voted with the GOP the first time it came up in 2001
they didn't have the votes then and she was absent when they tried it again in the new congress
you really need to look into her record, methinks

[saracat]

31. Ah, yes.Same argument the Nader voters used in 2000.Worked out well, didn't it?

Its a far better thing to vote for ideology than actually elect a Democrat.Not.
I will vote for who ever the Dem candidate is.Anyone is better than aRepug.And you need to PROVE your Hillary comments my friend.

[LostinVA]

66. Totally and completely wrong

HRC has an excellent voting record re: progressive, social issues.

Nice try, though.

[aaronbees]

99. People aren't promoting zero tolerance...

From what I've seen today, they're just tired of the hyperbole and defeatist rhetoric like, oh, "hillary and mccain are indistinguishable on 90% of issues." That's just flat-out untrue, unless of course you'd like to set up a list of their votes and show how 90 percent of them are the same. I'd love to see it!

And she's not my candidate for the primaries, either.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

33. and you accept the supposed inevitability of a hillary coronation?

and demonize anyone who questions the idea

[cynatnite]

43. So, you want the repukes to win if Hillary gets the nomination...

Why are you here at DU?

[madville]

44. That is why we have the House and Senate now

The Republican faithful sat at home and let the GOP lose in 2006 because they were sick of them not being conservative enough, not taking a unified stand on illegal immigration, and just about everyone is against the war now. The same thing is going to happen to us in 2008 if Hillary is the nominee, some Democrats will sit it out and the conservatives will be out in force to vote against her, not to vote for the rethug.

[gratefultobelib]

75. Good analysis. I hope more read this. n/t

[nolabels]

82. The thing that no one can realize is that much can change in just a day......

let alone a year and half. I see the dart board effect coming up sooner or later

[MonkeyFunk]

13. aww

[Beaverhausen]

17. then enjoy another 4 years of a republican presidency

:eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

50. Bye!

[LostinVA]

65. Then you'll have the Republican President your inaction bought

Hillary Clinton is not a conervative.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

92. inaction? not likely

i plan to wotk as hard as i can to keep the rightwing from highjacking the vitories of 2006 and taking the party back to shrum and carville land

[sufrommich]

12. She's not on who's' side?

If she wins the primaries,she's getting my vote.

[etherealtruth]

21. Mine, as well

Do people even look at her voting record?

She's not my first choice ... but, if she gets the nomination I will happily vote for her

[sufrommich]

25. I don't think it's really about her record...

it's not that different from the rest of the lot.On a good note...she's got our 2 votes from Michigan if she gets it!:hi:

[LostinVA]

69. No, I don't think most do

It's easier just to hate her.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. If My Words Did Glow, With The Gold Of Sunshine

And my tunes were played on the harp unstrung

[no_hypocrisy]

15. Rush and Hannity are using reverse psychology on the assumption

that if they vilify and attack Hilary, we assume they see there's something really good about her that scares them, and that will boost her in our collective esteem.

Not working on me . . .

[pampango]

18. I just can't say "I agree with Rush." n/t

[SaveElmer]

22. What this post represents is...

[rinsd]

23. Yes the left desires moral victories! Screw those real ones!

Go Nader!

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

26. so it has to be hillary or nader then-those are our options

it might make sense to look at nominating an actual progressive-but the hillbots can't fathom the possibility of not having a coronation

[rinsd]

35. Not all all. Though you seem to fear Hillary most.

"it might make sense to look at nominating an actual progressive"

What like Kucinich?

"but the hillbots can't fathom the possibility of not having a coronation"

And some on the left can't handle the fact that despite their and the RW's best efforts a great deal of people are still very fond of her and want to see her as President.

Now I like Edwards but I'm not gonna stand here while people dog pile on Hillary.

Yesterday some "progressive" posted that "Obama was in a Madrassa" crap that pinned the "discovery" on Hillary's oppo team. This froma Moonie rag. Other "progressives" chimed in with their disgust with Hillary for putting such a lie out there. Of the irony. The RW rags is not to believed about the rumor they are starting but who they got the rumor from is obviously true.

Today someone posted shit about Whitewater.

So forgive me if I seem curt but I have had it up to here with the BS bashing.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

38. i didnt bring that stuff up-i'm sticking to policy

you're equating GOP personal attacks with any examination of her record of caving to the right

[rinsd]

47. Not at all. I am merely explaining my frustration.

And how that likely affected my first post which wasn't all that nice.

[sufrommich]

37. What the hell does that mean!!

A coronation?? Do you make the same accusations to all who support someone other than your choice?Do Kucinich supporters want him crowned?She's running for President,she's got supporters,what's so imperial about that?Hillbots,christ.x(

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

42. they practically act that not wanting her as the nominee makes you a GOP agent

i'm sick of this media-created 'inevitabilty' of her as the nominee. we dont all have to fall in lne a year before the primaries. instead, we should tell carville to shove it and nominate someone who will listen to us for a change

[durrrty libby]

27. Why don't you just say that you don't want no damn girl to be president

and be done with it?

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

32. knee-jerk non-issue-based nonsense

i don't care about her gender. it's her record, operatives and positions that concern me.

there are planty of progressive women that i would vote for in a heartbeat-like barbara boxer, for instance

the phony sexism card is trotted out by the hillbots when they can't focus on issues

[cynatnite]

45. What's a hillbot?

Is that the same as a hillarista? Someone else used that.

Her record is pretty damn good compared to the rest of them. So she voted for some stuff you didn't like. Who has voted your preference EVERY SINGLE TIME?

Yeah, she's voted on stuff I don't like, but that's true with just about everyone else up there. No news there.

BTW, Barbara Boxer isn't running for president. Hillary is.

Question is...

If she's the nominee are you going to vote for her or not? Are you going to hand your vote to the repukes by staying home or going 3rd party?

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

46. i'm not asking every time-but don't want the most conservative candidate to get it

i have issues with edwards, obama and the rest as well, but they're people the left can get an audience with. hillary is not.

and no-i probably won't vote for her. i know i wont work for her or donate money. she's actually more conservative than a lot of moderate republicans

[cynatnite]

48. How is she more conservative?

Prove it. Which republicans? If you're going to make these statements you need to back them up with relevant facts.

[sufrommich]

49. Please name the moderate republican

you feel is more liberal than Clinton.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

54. lincoln Chaefee for starters

Hell, even Hagel's been better than her on the war

[cynatnite]

60. Hagel is anti-choice. He's a social conservative to the max...

and Chaffee's stances are pretty much the same as hers. That's probably as close as you'll ever get.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

81. hagle, as i said, only on the war

but all the dem nominees, except possibly biden, are infinitely more progressive than she is

that's why i'm anyone-but-hillary

[LostinVA]

73. Wrong and wrong

HRC is more liberal than them both, especially Hagel. Hagel is NOT a liberal. WTF??? He's a frigging major RWer.

[LostinVA]

71. She is far from the most conservative Dem

And, she is more liberal than the liberal Republicans, like Snowe, in the Senate.

You're just making stuff up now.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

85. i stand by my point

and i meant of the candidates in the race

she's definitely even with biden as the most rightwing

[cynatnite]

95. modifying your original position might help a little n/t

[durrrty libby]

51. Since your original post made no sense, you look like

a chauvanist hiding in plain sight.

Saying that she is not on "our" side is bull-shit

She most definitely is on MY side. So speak for yourself, cause you

most certainly do not speak for me.

And by the by, I am not a "Hillbot" Gore would be my first choice

So you a wrong every which way



:dunce: :hangover: :freak: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

53. how do you get chauvinism?

please explain

[AtomicKitten]

29. Scorched earth rhetoric.

Good luck with that.

[SidDithers]

52. Is this your Monday anti-Hillary thread?...

or are you posting more than one in a day, I've lost track.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3167077&mesg_id=3167077
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3166722
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3179631

Then there was this oh-so-subtle one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3166485&mesg_id=3166485

Sid

[durrrty libby]

57. Man..... I pegged that fool, right off the bat. Thanks for

the heads up

I won't waste another keystroke on that jerk....

[LostinVA]

76. Good catch -- thanks

PM this to some folks, okay?

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

97. what's your point?

didnt know there was a limit to how often we could raise the issue.

it stuns me how quickly this place turns into party-line hacktivism when the dlc springs into action

[SidDithers]

101. I can't wait for tomorrow's screed...nt

Sid

[generaldemocrat]

55. If Hillary is nominated we need leave the Democratic Party........

I don't know about you all, but I've given enough of my time and money to Democratic causes over the years and if the best they can do after 8 years of Republican bullsh1t is to nominate a huge Iraq war cheerleader like Hillary, then we all might as well do better things with our time than to work actively for a party that rewards collaborative warmongers and sidelines people who take a stand when it counts.

Now flame away.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

56. ditto

my sentiments exactly

[durrrty libby]

59. Bye bye!!

[durrrty libby]

58. Why wait?? Just go now......See ya

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

79. because the nominee hasn't been decided yet

as much as the carvillites would like, the left isn't going to just roll over for this one

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

63. This is the type of immaturity that costs us elections. Silly me, and here I thought some

would be happy the Dems won.Turns out some hate anyone who wins! I am not a Hillary fan but I will vote for any Dem over a Repug.If you don't feel that way you ought to get out now but that is your decision.I find itextremely curious that anyone would be taking such a stand as we are now winning! But it seems NO Democratic candidate except those who can't win but are ideologically"pure", are acceptable to some.

[LostinVA]

64. This is Democratic Underground

And, this OP is against the rules.

And, btw, HRC has a good liberal voting record, whether or not I agree with all of her votes.

[LostinVA]

77. *snigger*

What a pretty little sock.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

87. YYYYAAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNN

:boring:

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

93. as nader said to gore: 'slumber on, al"

al made the mistake of not addressing the issues where the clinton/gore record was lacking
instead he ignored the progressives backing nader

if the dlc takes the left for granted, they'll regret it when the greens get more votes than ever and gain ballot status

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

94. YYYYAAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNN

:boring:

[kohodog]

70. Huck Fillary

Don't want no more corporate hacks in the Whitehouse. Period.

[TheFarseer]

72. If she wins the nomination

no matter what, we get a pro-corporate president. Try to name a non-pro-corporate repug candidate!

[upi402]

74. 100% right OP ---n/t

[Junkdrawer]

83. The extreme right will help her nomination by opposing her...

you're 100% right.

[Faryn Balyncd]

88. Rush, Hannity, and all of Fox News is salivating at the prospect of a HILLARY nomination......

The more they stir to pot, they change the frames of the national debate.....

And they have learned that if they can turn the national debate away from issues and have people focus on PERSONALITIES, especially personalities they have turned into CHARACATURES whom they have spent years learning to demonize, then perhaps they can win in 2008, despite the fact that the GOP would lose in any campaign focused on issues.

HILLARY Clinton is the Republican wet dream of a distraction. They have spent decades perfecting their routine.

The Extreme Right's greatest hope is again having the opportunity in 2008.

Why else would Murdock finance Hillary?

[Martin Eden]

86. Hillary is on our side ...

... but I think she has become too much of a political animal to exert the kind of leadership our country really needs.

Also, she has been wrong about Iraq -- the biggest issue before every senator and representative the last 5 years.

[CAG]

96. 32 to 12.... or 36 to 12. Repub presidential years to Dems if Repubs

win in 2008. You keep fightin ol' limpballs and Seannie with that brilliant strategy of tearing down a leading dem nominee, and you deserve what you get. Just like the Naderites deserve the last 6 years and the other 2 we have to sit thru and the troops have to suffer and die for...

[truedelphi]

98. Cindy Sheehan is not a big fan of The Hill

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012207A.shtml

I thought she said it well